------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain

Loopers-Delight-d Digest                                Volume 96 : Issue 10

Today's Topics:
  FAQ as such                           [ The Man Himself <altruist@shoko.CAL ]
  Re: MIDI Loops                        [ Paolo Valladolid <pvallado@wayneswo ]
  Re: MIDI Loops                        [ Paolo Valladolid <pvallado@wayneswo ]
  Re: The latest on the West Coast Sum  [ Sean Echevarria <sean@PureAtria.COM ]
  Re: MIDI Loops                        [ Paolo Valladolid <pvallado@wayneswo ]
  Re: new standard tuning               [ Dave Stagner <dstagner@icarus.net> ]
  Re: New Joni                          [ Paolo Valladolid <pvallado@wayneswo ]
  Re: MIDI Loops                        [ Paolo Valladolid <pvallado@wayneswo ]
  Re: new standard tuning               [ studio seventeen productions <ambie ]
  Re: new standard tuning               [ studio seventeen productions <ambie ]

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Kim Flint
kflint@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 11:09:10 -0800 (PST)
From: The Man Himself <altruist@shoko.CALARTS.EDU>
To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com
Subject: FAQ as such
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.91.961104110602.18349A-200000@shoko.CALARTS.EDU>
Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="-1677489048-628158187-847134509=:18349"
Content-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.91.961104110849.18375A@shoko.CALARTS.EDU>

  This message is in MIME format.  The first part should be readable text,
  while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
  Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info.

---1677489048-628158187-847134509=:18349
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.91.961104110849.18375B@shoko.CALARTS.EDU>

This is an admittedly highly shoddy start of an Echoplex FAQ.  I've gone 
through my archive of mail that Kim has sent either to me or via the 
digest and tried to compile it here. 

There are very possibly other problems which are covered elsewhere that I 
don't have archived, so anyone else who has some FAQ material in their 
repositories is encouraged to contribute.

Finally, I've tagged on a few unanswered questions, mostly culled from 
recent posts I've seen floating around the list.

--Andre
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---1677489048-628158187-847134509=:18349--

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 11:41:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Paolo Valladolid <pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: MIDI Loops
Message-Id: <199611041941.LAA10993@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> >I really enjoyed the flexibility of Max combined with the portability of
> >my Powerbook.  About the only drawback was that the resultant sounds 
> >lacked the complexity of "real" strings.  
> 
> The folks at CCRMA claim that one DSP board driven with SynthBuilder
> can run a physical model of a 6-string electric guitar.  Given that
> David Jaffe is working on it, and given what he did with stringed
> instrument synthesis 10 years ago, this should be incredible.  If
> you've got an old PC laying around this might be worth looking into
> (the PC doesn't do the processing, so a 486 should do it).

David told us a bit about this board.  However, the drawback is that one
cannot use this board with a portable computer setup.  Now if the CCRMA
folks were working on a SynthBuilder-type card that fits in a PC card
slot...


Paolo Valladolid
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|for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments                  | \
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 12:10:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Paolo Valladolid <pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: MIDI Loops
Message-Id: <199611042010.MAA11408@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> >What I gather from the community of interactive computer music folks is
> >that Max is a great tool for prototyping interactive music systems.  Some of
> >them then go and program their systems in a faster language like Forth,
> >after using Max to quickly build a prototype.
> >
> >The Powerbook is nice for its portability, which is a big plus for live
> >performance.  Last I heard, all five members of the computer music band
> >The Hub had switched to Powerbooks as the computer of choice for live
> >computer music because of the portability and the ability to run Max.
> 
> Is this an exeption or a market (soon)? Certainly Max is great for
> prototyping but will non engineer musicians use it commonly in the future?

Max was designed to be used by non-engineers, so there are a fair number
of users with no engineering background at all.  You put together a Max 
program (which we call a "patch") using a graphical interface; you select
the objects you want then you drag them around with a mouse and draw lines
to hook them up.

I think Opcode still considers Max too esoteric to port to the Windows
platform, though.

Paolo Valladolid
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|for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments                  | \
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  -----------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 12:15:28 -0800
From: Sean Echevarria <sean@PureAtria.COM>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: The latest on the West Coast Summit
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961104201528.00b680c4@pureatria.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 01:44 pm 11/3/96 -0800, you wrote:
>The current roster as I see it reads as follows:
>
>Dave Trenkel (current holder of the long-distance award)
>Sean Echevarria

Actually, I won't be participating as a performer but will give whatever
assistance I can if it happens in the bay area.  I haven't been here too
long so I can't make any recommendations as far as places go.  

I do recommend that regardless of where the event takes place, that it be
videotaped for those who can't make it.

Sean (from the east coast but now on the west coast version)

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 11:48:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Paolo Valladolid <pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: MIDI Loops
Message-Id: <199611041948.LAA11058@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> >> Paolo helps:
> >> >I used an Opcode Max patch that had eight delay lines, each of which
> >> >pitch-shifted to a different interval and each of which had it's own
> >> >"seed" number to multiply with the input MIDI velocity value to produce
> >> >a delay time.
> >>
> >> So you choose any time into which delay you want to load and can change its
> >> "seed" number and Feedback while playing and stay synced between all delay
> >> lines, if you want. Yes?
> >
> >With my particular patch, no, but Max would let you add whatever "objects"
> >you need to do the job. For example, a fader object to adjust the
> >"seed" for each delay line could be connected.
> 
> Yes, I see. And then another object measures time between two Controller
> comands and feeds "seed" so you can control it by taping, right?

Yes, Max offers several objects that have the capability of measuring the
time between two successive controller messages.

> >If you fail to find a Max
> >object in the included object library supplied with Max to do a particular
> >job, you can write up your own in C.
> 
> Me? No. Did you? Does it require additional compiling soft or licence?

I have not written my own, but my requirements were relatively simple. I
know of an entire intepretive language encoded into a single Max object
(the Pyrite object) because someone felt he needed it.  I don't recall
the licensing details, however.
 

Paolo Valladolid
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list   |\ 
|for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments                  | \
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  -----------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:55:14 -0600 (CST)
From: Dave Stagner <dstagner@icarus.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: new standard tuning
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.93.961104144437.5378A-100000@icarus.icarus.net>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I find it kind of interesting that people would switch from one tuning
to another (standard to New Standard), yet remain basically monogamous
in their choice.  I use a number of different tunings, each with their
own strengths and weaknesses.  Part of the motivation of NST is to
break out of the rut, but I'd be afraid of falling into a new one.  

It seems to me you could beat the bending problems simply by using
lighter strings.  It's not likely you could find a set of
off-the-shelf strings that would work well with NST anyway, given its
octave-and-a-fifth reach across the neck.  I have a lot of trouble
bending myself, because I use medium-gauge strings on an acoustic
guitar.  Forget breaking... I just don't have enough hand strength to
get more than 2 semitones with any sort of stability and accuracy.
This doesn't mean I've abandoned bending entirely, though.  I just use
it differently.  Quarter-tone bends for shading can be just as
effective as big bluesy bends, maybe more so.  And there's always
slide, or a whammy bar.  

And, to keep this on topic... those little quarter tone bends can be
used very effectively with looping.  I like playing the same slightly
bent note several times in a loop, dubbing over and over with
different shadings and emphasis.  It can make a very striking chorus,
especially if the note stands by itself rather than being buried in a
run. 

-dave

By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete.
Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. 
Venus De Milo.
To a child she is ugly.       /* dstagner@icarus.net */
   -Charles Fort              

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:52:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Paolo Valladolid <pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: New Joni
Message-Id: <199611050052.QAA14586@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> but here's my question - does anybody know anything else about her upcomnig
> new album with a VG-8 heavily featured???!!! This much i know: she has one,
> she loves it, and being an alternate tuning pioneer, she's waited years for
> something like this... I hear it will have some scary noises on it too,
> coutesy of virtual modeling...

I read about this in Roland's magazine. She reportedly has developed over
70 different tunings over the course of her career.  The VG8 simplifies
her performances considerably.

Whether the VG8 accurately models combinations of guitar construction, 
pickups, mic placement, amps, etc. of course has been debated (though
to me the question is irrelevant).  But I'd say it's worth getting just
for the ability to switch between any tuning you like.  For example, make
a loop in standard tuning, switch to Crafty tuning to loop Frippy lines,
switch to your favorite open tuning for your hot slide lines, etc.


Paolo Valladolid
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list   |\ 
|for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments                  | \
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  -----------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:59:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Paolo Valladolid <pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: MIDI Loops
Message-Id: <199611050059.QAA14661@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> haven't heard of it but it sounds *very* interesting. It's probably for the
> Mac, right? Is there a program like Max or JamFactory for the PC at all, or
> would one have to buy a Mac to do fancy Midi stuff?

Last I heard, Opcode felt there was not enough of a demand in the Windows
market to make a Windows version of Max.  Some alternatives:

1. Code your own.  I remember someone in the rec.music.computer newsgroup 
was working on a Max-like program for DOS or something like that.  This
might become easier once MIDI capabilities are added to Java.

2. Get NeXTStep for Intel processors, then try getting the NeXT version of
Max. This might be difficult, however, as the Next version is owned by
IRCAM. You might have to contact IRCAM directly about this.

3. Get a used 68K-based Mac. Might actually cost less than getting NextStep
and upgrading your hardware to accommodate it.

> A friend of mine saw Steve Hillage in concert recently. He used a notebook or
> Powerbook but my friend didn't see what he did. What kind of things can you
> do with a Powerbook in concerts? Could one do similar things with a Notebook
> running Windows?
>  
> -Michael P

As far as MIDI is concerned, anything you can do with a desktop computer,
you can do with a Powerbook or other laptop. 


Paolo Valladolid
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|Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list   |\ 
|for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments                  | \
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  -----------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 17:33:32 -0800
From: studio seventeen productions <ambient@adnc.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re:  new standard tuning
Message-Id: <199611050133.RAA14188@barley.adnc.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 09:09 AM 11/4/96 -0500, you wrote:
>
>In other words, RF's NST is another modified violin-based tuning:
>
>       violin: G D A E
>       NST:(C) G D A E (G)
>
>I think NST would have been perfect fifths if the string technology
>and instrument capabilities would have supported it.
>
>I think this is not dissimilar to the tuning of a viola-de-gamba, a
>fretted 6-string bowed viola-like instrument.
>
>Pat Hickey                     ***SPH
>brzrkr@nielsenmedia.com
>
>

certainly!  or the middle strings of a mandolin...

cheers

dave at seventeen
173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168

*               *  *  *  *  *    I'll be downstairs if you need me.  I'll
still be 
*                  *     downstairs if you DON'T need me.       
*                          *         (Mr. Blint, Consequences/Godley & Creme)
*                        *
*                      *

visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html
seventeen: the ambient music page

173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 17:36:04 -0800
From: studio seventeen productions <ambient@adnc.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: new standard tuning
Message-Id: <199611050136.RAA14232@barley.adnc.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 03:31 AM 11/4/96 EST, you wrote:
>about Fripp's "New Standard Tuning":
> 
>yes, the bending possibilities are limited, but on the electric guitar you
>can always use a whammy bar to bend notes. This is not the same as bending a
>string with your finger but as Dave said - maybe the restriction forces you
>to leave the territory you're used to, and find something new.
> 
>I had this musical crisis years ago when I was simply fed up with what I
>played. I really couldn't help but notice that my playing repeated itself,
>that I used other guitarists' phrases and chords, and I got bored to the
>point of almost giving up the guitar altogether.
> 
>In my first Guitar Craft course in 1988, Fripp presented this different
>tuning he had found and switched to, abandoning the old tuning altogether
>for himself. I recognized that here was a chance for me to throw away all
>the learned stuff that bored me, and jump into unknown territory.
> 
>Being a lazy person who doesn't practice a lot, it took me years to learn
>the new tuning, but I took the chance. I tuned my guitars to the new tuning,
>and never went back. It was a painful process at times because in the
>beginning I couldn't play *anything* meaningful - when in a session someone
>asked me to play a specific chord, I couldn't, or it took quite a while to
>figure it out, and I felt like a fool. For a long time, I was unable to play
>a solo because I hit wrong notes very often.
> 
>Eventually I got familiar with the NST, and I'm happy with it. The whole
>playing and feeling of the guitar is different. There are undeniable
>limitations: No more bending; playing scales is more difficult because
>you have to stretch the fingers more; and some kinds of chords are impossible
>to play. On the other hand, the tuning gives you the chance to learn a new,
>fascinating, and equally expressive language, with a different way of
>phrasing, playing scales, and new kinds of chords.
> 
>I'm not saying that the NST is a *better* tuning. Of course the traditional
>tuning is just as limitless as the NST. For guitarists who feel happy with
>the traditional tuning, and with their playing, there is no need to learn
>a new tuning, but for guitarists who feel stuck, the NST is a possible way
>out.
> 
>-Michael P
> 


A *VERY* similar experience to mine.  I vacillated between the two for
years, and finally, after my fourth or fifth GC course, dove in to NST
permanently.  And, like Michael, I've never looked back.

a blessing that's hard to recognize



dave at seventeen
173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168

*               *  *  *  *  *    I'll be downstairs if you need me.  I'll
still be 
*                  *     downstairs if you DON'T need me.       
*                          *         (Mr. Blint, Consequences/Godley & Creme)
*                        *
*                      *

visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html
seventeen: the ambient music page

173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168

--------------------------------