------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain

Loopers-Delight-d Digest                                Volume 96 : Issue 15

Today's Topics:
  Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD?   [ Ray Peck <rpeck@PureAtria.COM> ]
  Re: suggestions                       [ KILLINFO@aol.com ]
  Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD?   [ PMimlitsch@aol.com ]
  CD Clarifiaction                      [ patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) ]
  Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD?   [ The Man Himself <altruist@shoko.CAL ]
  Re: Bon at D.T.E.                     [ andre <andre@monmouth.com> ]
  Re: list rules?                       [ matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias  ]
  Re: suggestions                       [ matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias  ]
  gear questions                        [ "Louis Collier Hyams" <hyamsl@rpi.e ]
  Re: gear questions                    [ KILLINFO@aol.com ]
  Re: gear questions                    [ Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski,  ]
  Re: gear questions                    [ The Man Himself <altruist@shoko.CAL ]
  Re: suggestions                       [ The Man Himself <altruist@shoko.CAL ]
  new web stuff!!                       [ kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) ]
  Oooops                                [ The Man Himself <altruist@shoko.CAL ]
  This is wierd                         [ The Man Himself <altruist@shoko.CAL ]
  Re: gear questions                    [ Dave Stagner <dstagner@icarus.net> ]
  Re: This is wierd                     [ Sean Echevarria <sean@PureAtria.COM ]
  Re: This is wierd                     [ The Man Himself <altruist@shoko.CAL ]

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kflint@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 14:34:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Ray Peck <rpeck@PureAtria.COM>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD?
Message-Id: <199611102234.OAA20065@pure.PureAtria.COM>

>Ah, now you come out of the bushes ;-).
>Sure you deserve 12, no problem for me. Really ok for you? Since there is
>no way we make some earnings back with this work, its really a comunity
>thing and we depend on contributions like yours.

Yeah, it's fine.  I figure it'll take me something like 20 hours to
put it all together.  I'd like a little something to help pay for the
equipment (many kilo-$), if not make up for the time, which I am
donating for the cause.  ;-)

The $50 is so is more of a make-me-feel-good measure than anything
else.  And it will help me justify spending $400 on the mastering
software (Digi's Masterlist CD) that I really ought to use for this
project.


>Actually there is a chance that the compilation one day turns into a
>product, and if its just for demo purposes. Maybe we could fix a real
>remuneration for participants for this case. But its complicated, heavy
>some how. And most probably such a next step will be made with new music,
>all new, all better.

I figure that if it ever gets sold, money should go to the performers
either equally or in proportion to the length of their pieces.  If
it's done equally (which I'd guess most would prefer), I'd appreciate
an equal share as compensation for putting it together on disk.

If everyone thinks that's fair.


I figure it will work this way.  Send me DATs, plus $12 for each disk
you want, with a SASE to send it all back to you when it's done.
First 74 minutes of music to arrive here gets on (with a limit per
track, let's say 8 minutes or so).  People sending me tracks longer
than the limit will be putting their fate in my skill as a listener
and editor (which seem to be pretty good, but I'd rather not exercise
them).  If you want me to fade your DAT, that's no problem: just tell
me the A-time for any fade-in and the A-time for any fade out.  If you
want to get precise, send me the times for the start and end of each
fade (it's trivial for me to do sample-accurate fades and crossfades).

If you want fancy editing, contact me directly (e.g., "take this 20
minute piece, and put together the first and last 4 minutes, with a 30
second crossfade between them, and please take out that click at 3:42,
and can you bump up the EQ 4db at 8k?).  I can do all those, but it
will take me a little time, so let's arrange something privately.

People sending me cassette should throw in another couple bucks for me
to transfer to DAT and then disk.  If they want eq and/or noise
reduction and/or BBE enhancement, I can also do that: contact me
beforehand if you do.

Please label everything *clearly*, as I will have a whole pile of
tapes to deal with.


I'll make disks for the contributors, and for each of the CD-R
cloners.  The CD-R cloners will form a tree for getting disks to
non-contributors.

CD-R cloner volunteers please contact me directly.


How does this all sound?

------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 17:53:03 -0500
From: KILLINFO@aol.com
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: suggestions
Message-ID: <961110175303_1350202104@emout20.mail.aol.com>

Jay,

You might also check out any for the half-dozen 
or so albums by Steve Tibbets on the ECM label:

"YR" (released in 1980)
"Northern Song" (1982)
"Safe Journey" (1984)
"Exploded View" (1986)
"Big Map Idea" (1989)
"The Fall of Us All" (1994)

All of his compositions utilize looping in one 
form or another (processing and/or sampling)
in ways ranging from overt to subtle, from simple 
to very complex.

Ted

------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 19:12:27 -0500
From: PMimlitsch@aol.com
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD?
Message-ID: <961110191226_1915397034@emout15.mail.aol.com>

Sorry folks but when upgrading my AOL I lost the mail concerning the Loopers
Delight CD project.  Could somebody please answer the following to get me up
to date (and maybe simplify things for newbies).
    1-Who to send tapes to?
    2- Due date for contributions?
    3-Fee?
Thanks. Take care.
     ----Paul Mimlitsch(Stick Player)

------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 20:44:30 +0200
From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: CD Clarifiaction
Message-Id: <v01520d00aeabd2788f61@[205.177.25.43]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

There have been so many posts on this matter that I am a bit lost. I gather
it is now first come first on, provided one provides $12 per disc they
want. Piece must be less then 8 minutes?

Am I correct so far?

WHo do I send a DAT too?

What happens to callers 13, 14, etc?

Peace,

Patrick


Nothing is easy...

------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 23:13:40 -0800 (PST)
From: The Man Himself <altruist@shoko.CALARTS.EDU>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD?
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.91.961110231152.12371A-100000@shoko.CALARTS.EDU>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Sun, 10 Nov 1996, Ray Peck wrote:

> I figure it will work this way.  
[the way it works deleted]
> How does this all sound?

It sounds *great*.  I'm going to have to remove myself from the list of
participants, due to a lack of sufficiently interesting loopstuff on tape
at this time.  But I'd like to get a copy of the CD anyway if that's
possible. 

Congratulations on getting the CD project to this point.

--Andre

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 08:31:45 -0500 (EST)
From: andre <andre@monmouth.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Bon at D.T.E.
Message-Id: <199611111331.IAA09838@shell.monmouth.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>
>I'm on the wrong coast, but I'm interested...I haven't heard of Bon.  Could
>you describe his music?
>
>- chris
>
>

it's great stuff.. he was in the late 70s version of prog group gong and did
an album called "gongzilla" a couple years back with holdsworth and benoit
moerlen. he also has a live duet guitar - ambient/looping album called
'sonic abandon' that's great. the new 'bon' record is fantastic - lots of
looped textures (a few by guest david torn), and a lot of burning trio
'fusion', for want of a better word.. also some smooth violin work by caryn
lin.. try to reach bon at lolorec@aol.com for info on getting their
albums... it's really worth the trip!! 

also - they are working on another album with Torn as well as sometimes -
holdsworth drummer Gary Husband... see ya




___________________________
>Chris Chovit                                          cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov
>AVIRIS Experiment Coordinator              ph: (818) 354-8077
>JPL M/S 306-336                                 FAX: (818) 393-4406
>4800 Oak Grove Dr.               pager #: (800) 759-8255 PIN 834-3869
>Pasadena, CA 91109
>_____________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 12:55:25 -0300
From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: list rules?
Message-Id: <v01520d06aeabe5ea119e@[200.254.32.106]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

David blackmails us with his absence ;-)

I think he is very right in his points. Let me add one:

>1.   Make sure the SUBJECT line on your posts accurately reflects what
>you're post is actually about.  That may mean changing it!
>
>2.  Be careful of re-including great gobs of text if you only add a
>one-line comment.
>
>3.  Use e-mail to individuals instead of generally mailing to the list if
>you can.

4. Do not use such horribly long subjects. :)

Point probably 3. goes for all the "count me in" kind of posts, does it?
Does it really take that much time to delete them, David?
The danger of "behind" mail is that we may loose track of what is happening
- not that bad either...

I have similar problems and had to unsub from a forum I liked. I find id
hard to trash before read. I do not buy the newspapers because I canot read
a few articles and throw away the rest and acumulate them (might be a
personal problem, though) %-)

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 12:55:51 -0300
From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: suggestions
Message-Id: <v01520d02aeac94a25a32@[200.254.32.106]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Jay said
>i'm a bock and blues guitarist

block and rues, you mean? :)

I hope you discover also the facilities looping brings for almost any style
of music. I am happy that you care for the "original" loop music, but I am
also very interested in hearing people create new things apart, like new
ways to play "traditional" music.

For rock guitar I see the live recording of a harmonic turn around to later
solo over it. I does not need to folow imediately.

On the ECHOPLEX you could do it like this:

press RECORD at the beginning of the riff or harmonies, maybe while singing.
press MUTE at the end of the riff to terminate the recording an save it silent.
press UNDO to call the riff anytime and let it roll from the beginning,
infinitally.
or press INSERT to hear the riff once and fall back to silence.

With exactly the same procedure you can save a refrain voice and bring it
back at the next refrain to sing the second voice over it and so on...

Any other suggestions for

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 10:41:24 -0500
From: "Louis Collier Hyams" <hyamsl@rpi.edu>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: gear questions 
Message-Id: <9611111041.ZM5272@hawk.vlsc.rpi.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

1) what is a midi mitigator worth? I found one for $150... played with it for
a while and decided that price wasn't worth it for me. also, what other midi
foot controllers allow for channel change on the fly and controlling of
multiple midi units.
2) on the same note... does anyone know of any mods for the old yamaha mfc-1
footcontrol unit? it does some nice simple things, but not enough access and
only 2 banks. is there a yamaha mod site? or an engineer that knows how to do
this? would this entail software rewrites? and chip burning?
3) any comments on alesis quadraverb 2.0? I used it in a performance next to
an eventide H3000 and found the alesis to be quieter and warmer... not sure
why, but I was very surprised.
4) found one of the old 16second delays. floor unit with the sliders... guy
has $795 on it... I didn't ask if that was a joke.
5) anyone seen any TARA Seymour Duncan Acoustic amps? been looking for those
with little luck.(hi ted)
6) any news from the vortex availability scene? guitar center still have 'em?
the few I've seen in stories are at retail prices(peak retail!)

thanks for your patience,
collier

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:49:29 -0500
From: KILLINFO@aol.com
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: gear questions 
Message-ID: <961111114929_348125443@emout11.mail.aol.com>

Hi Collier

> 4) found one of the old 16-second delays. floor unit 
> with the sliders... guy has $795 on it... I didn't ask 
> if that was a joke.

Actually it's no joke. I owned 2 of them and sold both 
to a fellow in Toronto for $1750.00 (with six button 
remote a foot controller that makes it about as easy 
to use as the EDP).

To know the unit is to love it. I had a real tough time 
saying goodbye to mine myself. All of the hype surrounding 
the Echoplex as the ultimate looping device finally won me 
over in the end though. 

I sold them to get the $$$ to buy the fully maxed out pair
of Obies that I got just a month or so ago. Though the EDPs 
are terrific in several ways that I hope to fully take 
advantage of, I still miss the ability to simply grab a slider
and mess with delay time (and pitch), and the modulation
control. Yep, I know they were ancient technology compared
to what we now have available, but their low fidelity gave 
them a charm all their own. And they worked... I owned them 
for over 10 years and they only went to the shop once.

So that price is actually pretty close to the going rate...

Ted

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 12:10:50 -0500
From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: gear questions
Message-Id: <v01520d05aead0e7422d8@[205.216.96.61]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

sadly, that's actually cheap for a EH 16second delay ...

Paul

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 10:23:36 -0800 (PST)
From: The Man Himself <altruist@shoko.CALARTS.EDU>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: gear questions 
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.91.961111101947.14426B-100000@shoko.CALARTS.EDU>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 11 Nov 1996, Louis Collier Hyams wrote:

> 6) any news from the vortex availability scene? guitar center still have 'em?
> the few I've seen in stories are at retail prices(peak retail!)

The Guitar Center in Sherman Oaks (which is where I snagged mine from) 
still has the $149 price tag.  Unless Top 40 radio suddenly starts 
spinning the radio edit of "Particle Bugs @ Perulia Station" and 
everybody sudenly trades in their Fender Jaguars and Big Muff pedals for 
Torn-inspired gear, you should be able to talk a Guitar Center into 
unloading their remaining Texes at that price.  (When I went in to buy 
mine a month ago, the guy behind the counter quipped, "Great!  How many 
do you want today?")

--Andre

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 10:28:37 -0800 (PST)
From: The Man Himself <altruist@shoko.CALARTS.EDU>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: suggestions
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.91.961111102346.14426C-100000@shoko.CALARTS.EDU>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 11 Nov 1996, Matthias Grob wrote:

> For rock guitar I see the live recording of a harmonic turn around to later
> solo over it. I does not need to folow imediately.
> 
> With exactly the same procedure you can save a refrain voice and bring it
> back at the next refrain to sing the second voice over it and so on...
> 
> Any other suggestions for

Last night I did a guest rehearsal spot for a grunge-type band, sort of a 
cross between Nirvana and Tori Amos.  It was still sort of spacey, 
ambient e-bow stuff, but it mostly consisted of building up a loop in a 
particular key and then un-muting it at specific points.  For one tune, I 
had to build up the loop from scratch while the song was starting up, and 
hope I could get the loop constructed by the time the appropriate section 
came around.  Oh, and since this was going on during the first part of 
the song, I had the amp turned off, so I couldn't hear what I was doing 
until it came time to play the loop!

Interesting sound, though, combining Frippy stuff with grunge riffing.  
After adding some e-bow lines to a spooky ballad, one of the people 
listening to the band commented, "It sounds like Queensryche."  We're 
still trying to sort that one out...

--Andre

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 10:37:53 -0800
From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: new web stuff!!
Message-Id: <v02140b00aead1ed19ffa@[207.171.196.169]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Despite having far more than my usual amount of fun this weekend, I managed
to put a bunch o' new stuff up on the web page. Huge thanks to Michael
Peters, Andre LaFosse, Matthias, and Tom Attix for their contributions and
energy!!!

First off, we have a cool logo now!!!! This comes courtesy of Tom Attix,
thanks Tom!!!!!  You can check it out on the main page:

http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html


Next, we've got Andre's growing Echoplex FAQ, html'd by Michael. The
echoplex page finally has some real content.... get all your questions
answered at:

http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tools/echoplex/FAQ.html


The performance theory thread that Andre initiated a few weeks back was
compiled by Matthias and html'd by Michael. Check here:

http://www.annihilist.com/loop/archive/filtered/PERFORM.html


Plus I managed to add some more of the general list archive, which I'm
woefully behind on.

enjoy....

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 10:56:57 -0800 (PST)
From: The Man Himself <altruist@shoko.CALARTS.EDU>
To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Oooops
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.91.961111105558.14927A-100000@shoko.CALARTS.EDU>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Folks --

There have been a couple of system crashes at shoko recently, and I don't 
seem to have a copy of the FAQ anymore.  8-/  Could somebody please send 
me a copy of the thing so I can add more info to it?

Thanks,

--Andre

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:12:39 -0800 (PST)
From: The Man Himself <altruist@shoko.CALARTS.EDU>
To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com
Subject: This is wierd
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.91.961111110701.15014A-100000@shoko.CALARTS.EDU>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

OK, I just got a copy of the FAQ in my box.  Talk about prompt service.

However, it was sent from my own account.  Or so the ID on the message 
says.  Now, am I just in the midst of a karmic synergy that has caused 
the FAQ to magically materialize in my INBOX less than a minute after 
requesting it (and before the request has even bounced back to me from 
the listserv), or is there somebody out there having a bit of programming 
fun?  (It should go without saying that I did not, in fact, send myself a 
copy of the document which I did not have a copy of in the first place.)

Might I ask that the clever party come forth, or at least refrain from 
such clandestine behavior in the future.  I do appreciate the FAQ 
document, but I'm not a big fan of people pulling Port-25 maneuvers and 
the like.

Still scratching my head over this one,

--Andre

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:08:36 -0600 (CST)
From: Dave Stagner <dstagner@icarus.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: gear questions 
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.93.961111105817.14599A-100000@icarus.icarus.net>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 11 Nov 1996 KILLINFO@aol.com wrote:

> Hi Collier
> 
> > 4) found one of the old 16-second delays. floor unit 
> > with the sliders... guy has $795 on it... I didn't ask 
> > if that was a joke.
> 
> Actually it's no joke. I owned 2 of them and sold both 
> to a fellow in Toronto for $1750.00 (with six button 
> remote a foot controller that makes it about as easy 
> to use as the EDP).

I sold one myself for $700, without the foot controller (I have plans
for the foot controller, if anyone owns one of these units and wants
to build one).  

> To know the unit is to love it. I had a real tough time 
> saying goodbye to mine myself. All of the hype surrounding 
> the Echoplex as the ultimate looping device finally won me 
> over in the end though. 

Mine bought the JamMan and Vortex I currently use, and a few other
toys too.  But it broke my heart to sell it, and I'll regret it for
the rest of my life.  They're really awful in some ways, and wonderful
in others.  The user interface was brilliant.  I must say the Lexicon
stuff is more broadly useful (except for losing the great backwards
stuff) and sounds much better, but it doesn't have the same
character. 

> I sold them to get the $$$ to buy the fully maxed out pair
> of Obies that I got just a month or so ago. Though the EDPs 
> are terrific in several ways that I hope to fully take 
> advantage of, I still miss the ability to simply grab a slider
> and mess with delay time (and pitch), and the modulation
> control. Yep, I know they were ancient technology compared
> to what we now have available, but their low fidelity gave 
> them a charm all their own. And they worked... I owned them 
> for over 10 years and they only went to the shop once.

When mine finally broke, the only way I could fix it was by tracking
down Mike Matthews of Electro-Harmonix in Russia, who connected me to
Loy Dang, the original designer.  Again, if you have one of these
antiques and it's broken, I have Loy Dang's address so you can get it
fixed.  

If you have deep pockets or a vintage effects fixation, I suppose
getting one of these babies is well worth it.  But if you're on a
realistic budget, your money is probably better spent on an Echoplex
or some other modern toy.  I'll admit, one reason I finally sold mine
was that I was terrified to own such a vintage piece.  I wouldn't take
it anywhere to play, because I was afraid it would break or get
stolen.  I imagine I'd feel the same way about a nice vintage guitar.

By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete.
Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. 
Venus De Milo.
To a child she is ugly.       /* dstagner@icarus.net */
   -Charles Fort              

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:30:52 -0800
From: Sean Echevarria <sean@PureAtria.COM>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: This is wierd
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961111193052.00b806e8@pureatria.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Andre - 

Sorry, all I did was use Eudora's redirect feature - it should have put my
name after your name in the from field.

Sean

At 11:12 AM 11/11/96 -0800, you wrote:
>OK, I just got a copy of the FAQ in my box.  Talk about prompt service.
>
>However, it was sent from my own account.  Or so the ID on the message 
>says.  Now, am I just in the midst of a karmic synergy that has caused 
>the FAQ to magically materialize in my INBOX less than a minute after 
>requesting it (and before the request has even bounced back to me from 
>the listserv), or is there somebody out there having a bit of programming 
>fun?  (It should go without saying that I did not, in fact, send myself a 
>copy of the document which I did not have a copy of in the first place.)
>
>Might I ask that the clever party come forth, or at least refrain from 
>such clandestine behavior in the future.  I do appreciate the FAQ 
>document, but I'm not a big fan of people pulling Port-25 maneuvers and 
>the like.
>
>Still scratching my head over this one,
>
>--Andre
>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:36:47 -0800 (PST)
From: The Man Himself <altruist@shoko.CALARTS.EDU>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: This is wierd
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.91.961111113554.15273A-100000@shoko.CALARTS.EDU>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 11 Nov 1996, Sean Echevarria wrote:

> Andre - 
> 
> Sorry, all I did was use Eudora's redirect feature - it should have put my
> name after your name in the from field.

Wow.  OK, thanks for clarifying that for me.  No problem, I was just 
wondering about that. 

Ya learn something new every day!

--Dre

--------------------------------