------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain

Loopers-Delight-d Digest                                Volume 96 : Issue 2

Today's Topics:
  Re: Tape Submissions                  [ Olivier Malhomme <malhomme@infobiog ]
  Re: Here we go again                  [ kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) ]
  Na Nice Lexicon Story                 [ Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuSer ]
  bios on the web!                      [ kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) ]
  Meat Beat                             [ kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) ]
  Re: Tape Submissions                  [ c62op27@ibx.com (Victor Fiorillo) ]
  Re: bios on the web!                  [ c62op27@ibx.com (Victor Fiorillo) ]
  Re: Na Nice Lexicon Story             [ Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.C ]
  Re: lobbying for upgrades.            [ Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.C ]
  Re: lobbying for upgrades.            [ paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski,  ]
  Re: Meat Beat                         [ improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) ]
  Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD?   [ Ray Peck <rpeck@PureAtria.COM> ]

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kflint@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 09:35:25 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Olivier Malhomme <malhomme@infobiogen.fr>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Tape Submissions
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95.961024093505.2437C-100000@lovelace.infobiogen.fr>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Wed, 23 Oct 1996, Matthias wrote:

> >I am publishing the first issue of a poetry and music review magazine in
> >Philadelphia.  I would like to solicit tape/CD/press kit submissions for
> >consideration.
> >
> >Trey Gunn has agreed to interview for this first issue, and I would like
> >contributions from other highly talented individuals and groups.  I have a
> >soft spot for touchboard instrumentalists and looping enthusiasts, so
> >anything along these lines would be given the highest listening priority.
> >
> >Victor Fiorillo
> >c/o COM
> >1914 Spruce Street
> >Philadelphia, PA  19103
> >
> >Please inform me via email if you send any media.
> 
> This mail was without any reaction on the list. Did someone send in stuff?
> I hope we do not loose this space.
> What does the result look like?
> 
> MAtthias
> 
> 
> 
> 
I'm going to

Olivier Malhomme

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 01:23:05 -0800
From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Here we go again
Message-Id: <v02140b00ae94db2d4201@[207.171.196.189]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>I've got another Echoplex wierdness alert:
>
>Just now, after leaving the Echoplex on unused for about twenty minutes,
>I tried recording a loop.  Without entering any sound in, and without
>having the threshold engaged, the thing automatically started recording
>once the engage button was pressed.
>
>But now here's the wierd thing.  When I hit record again, I got a very
>nasty blst of digital white noise.  This happened several times in a
>row.
>
>I switched the thing off, and upon re-powering all was well (at least it
>seems that way).  Now, is this something anybody's ever heard of?  I've
>never run into this anomaly before.  Will this be solved by clipping the
>internal thermal thing?

This is a weird one. It doesn't sound like a bug. It seems like a one-off
event where something screwed up the processor's memory. (cosmic rays, sun
spots, poltergeists, static discharches, secret military tests, etc.) Could
have been a thermal thing, but I sort of doubt it. If it keeps happening,
there might be something wrong with your unit. Good chance it was just
random weirdness and you won't see it again.


>I also noticed a few days ago that a loop which was running decayed to
>almost total silence over the course of some fifteen to twenty minutes,
>but the feedback control was definitely all the way to the right.  I've
>read that when more and more overdubs are put into the loops that the
>feedback is automatically scaled back to aout 95%; is that what I'm
>looking at now?

This is a problem that was definitely there on prototypes, and at some
point it was fixed. I have to get Matthias' help here, because some of it
was a software problem, and I'm not sure when it got fixed. I know that
with the mythical upgrade, this doesn't happen. Thing is, it doesn't
necessarily happen with the shipping software either. Matthias, do you know
if this was fixed in the shipping soft?

My uncertainty is because I think there were several different problems
which caused this. One of them may have been the thermal/cut-the-ic-pin
problem. That particular chip handles both the front panel switches and the
feedback knob, so I think that the same sort of conditions that cause the
Undo button to freak out also might cause loop degrading. I never had a
chance to verify that, so I don't know, but cutting that pin certainly
won't hurt and might fix this for you.

The other bit of uncertainty is that there actually was a software upgrade
very early in the echoplex production. You can see the software version
when you turn the power on, the current software will show LD3 3.2. The
first 60-100 units had an earlier version, LD3 3.0.  Unfortunately, I don't
remember what was fixed in this upgrade. Could have been the loop
degradation, but I don't know. What software version do you have Andre?

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: 24 Oct 96 04:32:19 EDT
From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Na Nice Lexicon Story
Message-ID: <961024083219_100041.247_JHB80-1@CompuServe.COM>

Olivier wrote about the Vortex,
 
> The knob that is supposed to let dial between the programms only offer
> half of them (you have again 16 on position 1, 15 on 2, 8 on 3, etc)
 
Exactly the symptom my first Vortex had which I got 2 weeks ago!!
Fortunately, I bought it here in Cologne and could give it back to the shop,
where they gave me another one last week. Now, for my second Vortex ...
 
> if you use a pedal to switch between registers, what you get is the unit
> jumping every 20 seconds from the pedal set programm to the knob set
> programm.
 
Exactly what my *second* Vortex does !!! (Aaarrgh) It *is* still usable with
this symptom, but I think I should give this one back too because it just
isn't stable and might get worse anytime. I'm afraid though that they give
me a third Vortex which has the first (worse) symptoms again ... or both :-(
 
Seems like when Lexicon decided to stop producing this thing, they didn't
feel like testing and controlling any longer.
 
Thanks for the warning Olivier, and good luck.
 
-Michael

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 01:55:43 -0800
From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: bios on the web!
Message-Id: <v02140b04ae94ecaeeff5@[207.171.196.164]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Finally got the bio pages up! Read about yourself and your fellow loopers at:

http://www.annihilist.com/loop/profiles/Profiles.html


Thanks to Andre for initiating the project and compiling them, and to
Michael for superbly converting it to HTML. Great job guys!

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 02:12:00 -0800
From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Meat Beat
Message-Id: <v02140b06ae94ee825e17@[207.171.196.164]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I got Meat Beat Manifesto's latest album - Subliminal Sandwich - the other
day. Its really quite good; I'm sitting here grooving away to it now, so I
thought I'd recommend it to y'all. It's sort of in the ambient-techno vein,
with lots of other stuff thrown in. Bits of dub, hip-hop, trip-hop,
industrial, techno, and good old rock and funk. Killer loops happenin' all
through it. Its a double cd, cost you about $18, and worth every cent.

Jack Dangers (who is meat beat) is a jamman user, by the way. Several
tracks even have Theremin!!!!

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 96 06:25:53 EDT
From: c62op27@ibx.com (Victor Fiorillo)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Tape Submissions
Message-Id: <9610241025.AA29570@ibx.com>

>>I am publishing the first issue of a poetry and music review magazine in
>>Philadelphia.  I would like to solicit tape/CD/press kit submissions for
>>consideration.
>>
>>Trey Gunn has agreed to interview for this first issue, and I would like
>>contributions from other highly talented individuals and groups.  I have a
>>soft spot for touchboard instrumentalists and looping enthusiasts, so
>>anything along these lines would be given the highest listening priority.
>>
>>Victor Fiorillo
>>c/o COM
>>1914 Spruce Street
>>Philadelphia, PA  19103
>>
>>Please inform me via email if you send any media.

>This mail was without any reaction on the list. Did someone send in stuff?
>I hope we do not loose this space.
>What does the result look like?

>MAtthias

I received a few responses, no music yet.  I have received submissions from other lists.

Anyone is welcome to send material.  All will be thoughtfully considered.

Victor Fiorillo

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 96 07:04:44 EDT
From: c62op27@ibx.com (Victor Fiorillo)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: bios on the web!
Message-Id: <9610241104.AA29863@ibx.com>

How does one submit a profile?

------------------------------
Date: 24 Oct 96 08:54:37 EDT
From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM>
To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Na Nice Lexicon Story
Message-ID: <961024125437_74074.1316_GHQ33-2@CompuServe.COM>

>But the funny thing is Lexicon told they won't support any warranty in my
>case. What i'm supposed to do is have someone repair it and pay. Just
>nice. I've checked on my warranty card. Nowhere is written that the
>warranty is void in such circontances.

International sales by US delaers is a subject of incredible controversy at Lex
land, and I'm sure at many other companies as well. The reason is really quite
simple: Every unit sold by Sam Ash or Guitar center is a unit *not* sold through
the distributor. Which means he's losing money. Which means he's bitching. Which
means they have to slap Guitar Center on the wrist. But wait, Guitar Center is
GOD. You can't slap them on the wrist. So, what to do? Well, to cut down on
trans-shipping, the company policy is just what you've stated: They can't offer
warranty service to a customer in France: only the French distributor can. Which
means if you bought it from a French dealer, you'd be covered. But you didn't,
so you're paying the price. Ugly, huh?

Ultimately, it boils down to an age-old problem: too many hands in the middle.
(This results in several issues, not the least of which is price.) I had
suggested that Lexicon do a Cambridge Soundworks, i.e. sell direct. Cut everyone
out of the middle. Yeah, it makes for a major shift in company structure, but
let's face it: your customer support doesn't change. Who goes to their dealer
with a question? No one. So why should they get 40 points (plus another 8% rep
comission)? To put it on the shelf and not have a working unit? Then when they
*do* demonstrate it, make a mockery of the product? (See an earlier diatribe
about my experiences in dealer hell...)

As for the problems you're experiencing: The program select knob appears to be
slightly problematic. Apparently there's an issue regarding this knob, the
details of which I know nothing, but I experienced the same difficulties on my
Vortex, JamMan and Alex (all of which use the same pot). I thought it was just
my prototypes, but apparently not... Word is, it's an easy fix, and they turn it
around pretty quickly.

>Seems like when Lexicon decided to stop producing this thing, they didn't
>feel like testing and controlling any longer.

Actually, they were all tested ages ago: they've been sitting in a warehouse for
many many moons...

------------------------------
Date: 24 Oct 96 08:54:35 EDT
From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM>
To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: lobbying for upgrades.
Message-ID: <961024125434_74074.1316_GHQ33-1@CompuServe.COM>

Matthias writes:
>Jon Durant, what would you say as an old professional?

First, I'm not old. I just feel that way sometimes when my two boys run me
ragged!!!

Second, and more to the point: Getting Composers on our side is a tricky issue.
For example: Bill Frisell has been using a JamMan for years, mostly as a
compositional tool. In his live performances, he generally still uses his trusty
old Electro Harmonix thingy. Why? Because he can take a loop and speed it up or
slow it down using the delay time (something no cuurrent looping device can do).
So his use of the device is completely hidden to the general public.

>For them we need demonstrations or a video "how to apply loops in rock
>music" or so.

Did anyone see the Lexicon JamMan Video? This was one of the greatest
embarrasments of my professional career. What started as exactly what you're
calling for turned into a complete disaster. Yet another case of having people
who don't understand the product take responsibility for marketing it. In this
case, the Marketing VP at the last minute decided to give the entire project to
his buddy, a notorious publisher in the music world, who also dabbles in
convention TV, and let him decide how to make a "snappy" video. I had already
contracted David Torn to do the guitar portion, and the producer brought in a DJ
to do that portion. From there everything went to hell. To this day, I have
refused to let Torn see the video. The last segment was Steve Frankel
(International Sales) and myself in the demo room at Lexicon, caught on hi-8. We
added this section, because it was the original outline. The horrible results of
the "big" production required us to add this miserable little piece to give some
sort of reason why someone might want to buy this thing.

>- Amateurs that start playing and grab the loop quicker than the >instrument
they are using and therefore are happy to be able to create >something musiclike
on the loop from the start (some techno rythm for >example).

I did a dealer show in Florida a couple of years ago, and had an interesting
experience. One person came up and saw my little demo and was instantly hooked.
It turns out that he plays in a cover band (which I suspect means that he makes
a lot more money than those of us who are trying to create original music!) and
they do a bunch of "alternative" music, such as the Cure. He immediately grasped
how useful it would be to grab some of those repetative licks and be able to
play the counterpoint lines with them. He bought one immediately. And I realised
that if we could hook a band like the Cure to start using one and talking about
it, then it would be a big lift. So my British distributor tried to get me into
the sessions for their last record (recorded at Jane Seymour's house!), but they
had started work and didn't want to be interrupted. Of course, the record
stiffed, and they *never* talk about gear, so it wasn't a big loss.

Meanwhile, the way to get kids to get into it is through the dealers. And we all
know how likely that is to happen: It isn't. Besides, there's a major price
barrier for beginners: You can't sell them a looper that costs more than their
guitar, and that means the thing has to cost about $200 max. Probably more like
$100.

So where does this leave us? Personally, I'm frightened by the outlook in the
present tense. I do know that there are a couple of guys at Lexicon who believe
in the potential. Of course, they happen to be the two guys who created the
JamMan and modify PCM 42s. Believe it or not, the answer really comes from one
place: the dealers. (I know, I know...) The management of Lexicon is completely
conviced that the word of Sam Ash and Guitar Center is the word of God. If we
could convince these guys to start pestering the manufacturers, then we might
see movement. 

True story: At one point, I tried to put forth a proposal that went way beyond
reason, but that I thought would work: I suggested that an upgrade to the
JamMan, adding the most requested features (which had already been developed and
tested by the product's creator in a personal quest for the coolest thing going)
should be done, not because we'd sell more, but because it was the professional
thing to do. Stand behind your customers. It would have generated excellent
press, and would have said a whole lot about why Lexicon is the professional
choice. And it really wouldn't have costed a whole lot of money--you could write
it off to the PR account! The idea gained steam, until the words "JamMan
Upgrade" were raised in a management meeting and were met with howls of
laughter. NEXT!

OK, I'm leaking confidential secrets of life at Lex, and I'm sure Kim could
regale us all with some charmers from Oberheim/Gibson land, but this is the
reality: Looping is a sore subject for these companies, and it won't improve
until Alesis comes out with a winner and makes everyone look stupid. (Did I just
say that? JD, you've come a long way in 9 months...)

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 09:47:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: lobbying for upgrades.
Message-Id: <v01520d01ae94ec721877@[205.216.96.83]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Matthias writes:
>>Jon Durant, what would you say as an old professional?
>
>First, I'm not old. I just feel that way sometimes when my two boys run me
>ragged!!!
>
>Second, and more to the point: Getting Composers on our side is a tricky issue.
>For example: Bill Frisell has been using a JamMan for years, mostly as a
>compositional tool. In his live performances, he generally still uses his
>trusty
>old Electro Harmonix thingy. Why? Because he can take a loop and speed it up or
>slow it down using the delay time (something no cuurrent looping device
>can do).
>So his use of the device is completely hidden to the general public.
>
>>For them we need demonstrations or a video "how to apply loops in rock
>>music" or so.
>
>Did anyone see the Lexicon JamMan Video? This was one of the greatest
>embarrasments of my professional career. What started as exactly what you're
>calling for turned into a complete disaster. Yet another case of having people
>who don't understand the product take responsibility for marketing it. In this
>case, the Marketing VP at the last minute decided to give the entire project to
>his buddy, a notorious publisher in the music world, who also dabbles in
>convention TV, and let him decide how to make a "snappy" video. I had already
>contracted David Torn to do the guitar portion, and the producer brought
>in a DJ
>to do that portion. From there everything went to hell. To this day, I have
>refused to let Torn see the video. The last segment was Steve Frankel
>(International Sales) and myself in the demo room at Lexicon, caught on
>hi-8. We
>added this section, because it was the original outline. The horrible
>results of
>the "big" production required us to add this miserable little piece to
>give some
>sort of reason why someone might want to buy this thing.
>
>>- Amateurs that start playing and grab the loop quicker than the >instrument
>they are using and therefore are happy to be able to create >something
>musiclike
>on the loop from the start (some techno rythm for >example).
>
>I did a dealer show in Florida a couple of years ago, and had an interesting
>experience. One person came up and saw my little demo and was instantly hooked.
>It turns out that he plays in a cover band (which I suspect means that he makes
>a lot more money than those of us who are trying to create original music!) and
>they do a bunch of "alternative" music, such as the Cure. He immediately
>grasped
>how useful it would be to grab some of those repetative licks and be able to
>play the counterpoint lines with them. He bought one immediately. And I
>realised
>that if we could hook a band like the Cure to start using one and talking about
>it, then it would be a big lift. So my British distributor tried to get me into
>the sessions for their last record (recorded at Jane Seymour's house!),
>but they
>had started work and didn't want to be interrupted. Of course, the record
>stiffed, and they *never* talk about gear, so it wasn't a big loss.
>
>Meanwhile, the way to get kids to get into it is through the dealers. And
>we all
>know how likely that is to happen: It isn't. Besides, there's a major price
>barrier for beginners: You can't sell them a looper that costs more than their
>guitar, and that means the thing has to cost about $200 max. Probably more like
>$100.
>
>So where does this leave us? Personally, I'm frightened by the outlook in the
>present tense. I do know that there are a couple of guys at Lexicon who believe
>in the potential. Of course, they happen to be the two guys who created the
>JamMan and modify PCM 42s. Believe it or not, the answer really comes from one
>place: the dealers. (I know, I know...) The management of Lexicon is completely
>conviced that the word of Sam Ash and Guitar Center is the word of God. If we
>could convince these guys to start pestering the manufacturers, then we might
>see movement.
>
>True story: At one point, I tried to put forth a proposal that went way beyond
>reason, but that I thought would work: I suggested that an upgrade to the
>JamMan, adding the most requested features (which had already been
>developed and
>tested by the product's creator in a personal quest for the coolest thing
>going)
>should be done, not because we'd sell more, but because it was the professional
>thing to do. Stand behind your customers. It would have generated excellent
>press, and would have said a whole lot about why Lexicon is the professional
>choice. And it really wouldn't have costed a whole lot of money--you could
>write
>it off to the PR account! The idea gained steam, until the words "JamMan
>Upgrade" were raised in a management meeting and were met with howls of
>laughter. NEXT!
>
>OK, I'm leaking confidential secrets of life at Lex, and I'm sure Kim could
>regale us all with some charmers from Oberheim/Gibson land, but this is the
>reality: Looping is a sore subject for these companies, and it won't improve
>until Alesis comes out with a winner and makes everyone look stupid. (Did
>I just
>say that? JD, you've come a long way in 9 months...)


I read your email with interest .. it is sad that Lex is so short sighted
on this score.  I would very much like to see an upgrade to this box ...
and be able to vary loop lengths after entered using a pedal ... and some
other ideas ... it would seem to me as you said that some of the
innovations would not be costly and they could reintroduce the thing to the
market.

Paul

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 09:48:53 -0800
From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Meat Beat
Message-Id: <v01510103ae954f368a87@[128.193.5.133]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>I got Meat Beat Manifesto's latest album - Subliminal Sandwich - the other
>day. Its really quite good; I'm sitting here grooving away to it now, so I
>thought I'd recommend it to y'all. It's sort of in the ambient-techno vein,
>with lots of other stuff thrown in. Bits of dub, hip-hop, trip-hop,
>industrial, techno, and good old rock and funk. Killer loops happenin' all
>through it. Its a double cd, cost you about $18, and worth every cent.
>
I second that recommendation. "Nothing", the all-instrumental 2nd disc of
the set is one of my current favorites.

>Jack Dangers (who is meat beat) is a jamman user, by the way. Several
>tracks even have Theremin!!!!
>
Yeah, They had a theremin onstage when I saw them. I actually thought they
overused it a bit, but, hey, if I had one, I'd probably overuse it myself.
Didn't see a jamman in Danger's rack, but there was an eventide that he was
using for live processing on the rest of the band.

________________________________________________________
Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org
self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/
"A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast
and bulbous, got me?"
                                     -Captain Beefheart
________________________________________________________


[missing posts go here]

------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 18:36:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Ray Peck <rpeck@PureAtria.COM>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD?
Message-Id: <199610290236.SAA26001@pure.PureAtria.COM>

>This is an exelent service.
>For the comunity though, I think it is interesting to have a quantity of
>CDs with 'professional' cover so we can give them away and gain respect and
>get known.
>
>Its just not the same feeling to put in a gold CD.

Why not have a professional cover?  We can get some dye-sub printed at
1200 dpi.  This looks as nice as any "real" cover.

--------------------------------