------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain

Loopers-Delight-d Digest                                Volume 96 : Issue 24

Today's Topics:
  Re: Drumming with loops -- some meth  [ matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias  ]
  Re: Drumming with loops -- some meth  [ Eric Cook <ecook@conch.aa.msen.com> ]
  Samplers, drummers...                 [ Olivier Malhomme <malhomme@infobiog ]
  What do you mean thanks?              [ Olivier Malhomme <malhomme@infobiog ]
  Oberheim Synthies died?               [ Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuSer ]
  Re: Drumming with loops -- some meth  [ Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuSer ]
  RE: Something to try, if you dare     [ "Steven R. Murrell" <smurrell@ford. ]
  Re: Oberheim Synthies died?           [ kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) ]
  Steve Reich & Musicians               [ Dan Howarth <howarth@U.Arizona.EDU> ]
  Re: Steve Reich & Musicians           [ murkie <mchriste@panther.middlebury ]
  Re: unsynced unmidied loops           [ matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias  ]
  Re: Samplers as loopers?              [ matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias  ]
  new web stuff!                        [ kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) ]
  Re: How does Schon Sync?              [ kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) ]

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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 04:58:27 -0300
From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Drumming with loops -- some methods (longish)
Message-Id: <v01520d03aeba8c21acbc@[200.254.32.101]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

How nice, Eric. A real method.
Might find its place at Plaing Hints on the list, what do you think?


>1)With the loop:
>
>  a)If the loop is the same rhythm as the theme/riff (say the guitarist
>    locks in a loop of the riff, and then moves into a solo), this is
>    a fairly trivial case -- you can keep playing to the theme as you
>    have been. varying it as much or as little as you normally would.

I think this is the main case we have been talking about. Do you allways
easily hear acurately enough to follow? I understood from the other posts
that this was a problem?

>    fact that the loop is now doing something different.  In essence,
>    you are pretending that you the theme that you were playing with
>    is still present.

Maybe give the "yous" a fix before HTMLizing :-)

>Also note that when I do these things in the context of Gravitar, we don't
>have a bass player; this frees me up considerably as a drummer, both in
>terms of my freedom to react quickly without worrying so much about
>bass player following what I'm doing, as well as, in essence, making
>the drums the entirety of the "rhythm section".  I'm not necessarily
>advocating kicking the bass player out...but it's helped me in some ways.

Thats what I thought all the time, reading your methods.
But you probably have some bass sound that takes the space?
Someone said that in Reggae and other music, the bass is reference and not
the drums.
I think its the same in my music. I often start with a small high pitch
pingeling thing that shows the loop to me, but hardly to a drummer. Then
when the clima developps, suddenly I hear the bass line and record it,
usually using MULTIPLY (and using POLYSUBBASS polyphonic octave divider,
the cool way to kick out the bass player :-) ). Then the drum (percussion
in my case) can come in concretely.

So simple way is to have the bassplayer start his loop first, defining the
time. He may record just a few "corner" notes, giving a base for every one,
but also leaving space to "curve" around.
Then the guitars and soloists are free to record and distroy their loops
synced to the bass loop, without having to worry too much about timing.
For the drummer, the bass loop is an easy reference.

Another thing would be to leave the direction to the drummer and have him
send out a Beat Sync to the looper (well, all I am saying works with
ECHOPLEX, I am not sure about others...) to correct the loops of everyone
so they do not "run away".
The Sync signal could be the bass drum mic or a separate key you operate
regularely, I do not know how...maybe even a key under the HH pedal?

Did you never feel like having your own drum loop going, as a base and sync
reference for the others?

I feel that we need some more infos collected before we close the "Drumming
with loops" Hint.
But you did put us right on the way.

Thanks
Matthias

Maybe there will be a separate Hint: "Looping with drums" :-)

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 02:44:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Eric Cook <ecook@conch.aa.msen.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Drumming with loops -- some methods (longish)
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.92.961122021444.8320A-100000@conch.aa.msen.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 22 Nov 1996, Matthias Grob wrote:

> >1)With the loop:
> >
> >  a)If the loop is the same rhythm as the theme/riff (say the guitarist
> >    locks in a loop of the riff, and then moves into a solo), this is
> >    a fairly trivial case -- you can keep playing to the theme as you
> >    have been. varying it as much or as little as you normally would.
>
> I think this is the main case we have been talking about. Do you allways
> easily hear acurately enough to follow? I understood from the other posts
> that this was a problem?

Practically, yes, this can definitely be a problem.  Esp. in live
situations, where the monitoring situation can range from flakey to worse.
I use a small guitar amp, pointed right at me, slaved off the guitarist's
main amp, as a monitor, and this seems to help, both for hearing the
looping and non-looping material.  Plus I can control the volume of what's
blasting at my head, which I also like.

> >    you are pretending that you the theme that you were playing with
>
> Maybe give the "yous" a fix before HTMLizing :-)

Yeah, the whole thing should be proof-read and polished up a bit before
before anything.  I'm sure my tenses are flying back and forth all over
the place as well.  :)


(re: lack of a bass player)
> Thats what I thought all the time, reading your methods.
> But you probably have some bass sound that takes the space?

Yeah, the guitar player uses a Digitech Whammy pedal to "double" the theme
in two octaves, and sometimes loops a generalized low-end groove for good
chunks of the song.


> Someone said that in Reggae and other music, the bass is reference and not
> the drums.

That's true -- would there be anything to add to these tips to generalize
them more, so that they are more appropriate for a variety of genres?

> So simple way is to have the bassplayer start his loop first, defining the
> time. He may record just a few "corner" notes, giving a base for every one,
> but also leaving space to "curve" around.

"curve" and "corner" -- that's a nice way to put it.


> Another thing would be to leave the direction to the drummer and have him
> send out a Beat Sync to the looper (well, all I am saying works with
> ECHOPLEX, I am not sure about others...) to correct the loops of everyone
> so they do not "run away".
> The Sync signal could be the bass drum mic or a separate key you operate
> regularely, I do not know how...maybe even a key under the HH pedal?


I'd like to try this, but none of our looping gear is high-tech enough for
me to trigger it, I don't think.  Does anything besides the Echoplex deal
happily with a beat sync, anyone know?

> Did you never feel like having your own drum loop going, as a base and sync
> reference for the others?

Yeah, I do have pedal envy sometimes. :)
Seriously, I have been trying to incorporate some live drums loops into
the whole sheebang.  Tried baseing some songs on tape loops, but that had
the problem of being a)very inflexable (at least with pedals/samplers, you
can alter the speed or the loop if desired.  With tape, you're stuck.) and
b)damn near inaudible once the whole band got going.

I've did recently get my own 8-second digitech sampler pedal, and a Roland
SPD-11 drum pad, and have been slowly bringing that in at rehearsals.
Haven't had the guts to try it live yet though.  So far, the less
"Realistic" drum sounds seem to be blending in better (the more similar
the sounds are to my kit, the more it just sounds like I'm playing sloppy
if the loop drifts).

Seems like looping non-electronic percussion might be problematic live,
though I'd love to hear from anyone who's done it at all, successful or
not.

> I feel that we need some more infos collected before we close the "Drumming
> with loops" Hint.
> But you did put us right on the way.


Yeah, I in no way intended it to be the "authoritative manual", just a
list of some things that have worked for me.  I'm glad you found it to be of some interest.


> Maybe there will be a separate Hint: "Looping with drums" :-)

yeah! Somebody write it -- I'll read it with enthusiasm!

--Eric Cook                 ecook@mail.msen.com
  Gravitar-Guy              http://www.msen.com/~ecook/gravitar.html

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 10:20:02 +0100 (MET)
From: Olivier Malhomme <malhomme@infobiogen.fr>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Samplers, drummers...
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95.961122101257.15786B-100000@lovelace.infobiogen.fr>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I think there is sampler that can detune, pitch shift without changing the
sample length.
Akai choosed the "lets behave like a tape" method. Roland (at least a few
years ago, I don't know for their last products) choosed another way. wich
was called "differential interpolation" (not exactly sure of the
translation) were the machine performed calculation to "fill in the
blancks" in a sound when played higher (means faster usually) and the
exact opposite to prevent your 5 sec sample to turn to a 40 sec sample 3
oct lower.

I was very impressed with the intelligence of the post of Mr. Cook and the
fact that drummers are not supposed to keep time. I made a strong point
in my opinion....
Then it took me into rethinking some of my drums arrangements (since I
have unfortunately no drummer with me, I have  to use synths and boxes to
try to emulate a real drummer, whan I want one.

Olivier Malhomme

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 10:33:11 +0100 (MET)
From: Olivier Malhomme <malhomme@infobiogen.fr>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: What do you mean thanks?
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95.961122103043.15786C-100000@lovelace.infobiogen.fr>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

K-Just to say to everyone contributing, as I read the last digest, BOY! I
lke th eway this list is LIVING. I felt like I had to tahnks everyone. It
goes without saying, but it goes better with the saying (non accurate
translation of an old french saying).

Olivier Malhomme

------------------------------
Date: 22 Nov 96 07:54:38 EST
From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Oberheim Synthies died?
Message-ID: <961122125438_100041.247_JHB90-1@CompuServe.COM>

just read in a new catalogue of a local synthesizer shop that the Oberheim
Synthesizer division has been closed. (Maybe this is no news for many of us,
but I didn't know it.) What does this tell us about the future of Oberheim
and the Echoplex? -Michael

------------------------------
Date: 22 Nov 96 07:54:42 EST
From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Drumming with loops -- some methods
Message-ID: <961122125441_100041.247_JHB90-2@CompuServe.COM>

I've htmlized Eric's "Drumming with Loops" and sent it to Kim, who I hope
will upload it to the Tips/Tricks section sometime in the next days.
-Michael

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 12:08:59 -0500
From: "Steven R. Murrell" <smurrell@ford.com>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: Something to try, if you dare
Message-Id: <199611221712.AA28374@internet-mail.ford.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>Hi people,

>Let me start off by saying that I'm no looper myself, just a big fan at
>this point.  Here's something to try that some of you may find interesting:

>Take a CD that you don't like at all, and wouldn't mind destroying.  Get a
>thick black permanant marker.  On the PLAYING side of the CD, draw 3 lines,......................


Now this is one of the primary reasons why I joined this list.  I will try this tonight.


Steve Murrell

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 10:32:42 -0800
From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Oberheim Synthies died?
Message-Id: <v02140b00aebba17e4073@[207.171.196.222]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>just read in a new catalogue of a local synthesizer shop that the Oberheim
>Synthesizer division has been closed. (Maybe this is no news for many of us,
>but I didn't know it.) What does this tell us about the future of Oberheim
>and the Echoplex? -Michael

I was there a couple of days ago, and they didn't appear closed. Pale and
shaky, but not quite dead yet.

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 11:14:46 -0700 (MST)
From: Dan Howarth <howarth@U.Arizona.EDU>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
cc: stickwire-l@netcom.com
Subject: Steve Reich & Musicians
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.95.961123105856.59750B-100000@tortola.u.arizona.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

hi folks,

i've just finished a grueling fourteen hour work day with Reich and co.
basically, i was their driver; this involved many, many hours of fun and
interesting conversation, as well as unusual hours... but anyway:

the ensemble consisted of two pianists, five vocalists, a conductor, a
sound engineer, four percussionists, and reich.
they were easily the most relaxed and friendly group of artists i've
worked with. their planes were an hour late; rehearsal was hindered by
fried microphones; they hadn't eaten in over a day; and worst - our staff
had some embarrassing moments with them. but in all, they were very
patient, friendly, and considerate. 
i ended up taking them to a local restaurant for dinner (and muchos
margaritas). i wish i had time to remember and write down the
conversation; easily put, it was entertaining. 

some of them had heard of the chapman stick, though none really knew much
about it. reich asked (and received, of course) for a tape of my music...
his parting words were a very stern "we'll be in touch." incredible guy.

he doesn't actually perform much of his own compositions, but rather
continually uses the ensemble (built of a very tightly-knit group of
old friends) in all of his works. - it was said that he writes some parts
specifically for a certain player in the group. 

the music was memorable. i've always been a glass fan, but i found reich's
marimba pieces (which were featured) to be much more interesting and
dynamic than the organ pieces of glass. the percussionists were amazing.

finally, i dropped them at the airport this morning, after many, many
handshakes and even a free cd of the two pianists' work titled 'double
edge'.

what a day. i can't wait to see if reich will call me. :)

****************************************************************
**  Dan Howarth, History/Music, University of Arizona, Tucson **
**  http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth (under construction)    **
****************************************************************

------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 14:55:41 -0500 (EST)
From: murkie <mchriste@panther.middlebury.edu>
To: stickwire-l@netcom.com
Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Steve Reich & Musicians
Message-Id: <Pine.A41.3.95.961123145247.29320A-100000@puma.middlebury.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

i agree wholeheartedly about reich's compositional superiority to glass
(yawn).  i just finnished working on a recording for a live performance of
reich's "new york counterpoint" ( a pice for 10 recorded clarinets and one
live one ) and i was knocked out by the piece.

i would recomend most of his catalog as inspirational listening for
loopers and tappers alike.

all for now...

murkie
 
=====================================================================
=                                                                   =
=         M  a  r   k      C  h  r  i  s  t  e  n  s  e  n          =
=     Cramped Quarters Studio / Jasperpottamus Music Publishing     =
=                  internet: murkie@middlebury.edu                  =
=     "The world isn't flat.  It's actually +6 dBa at 5.7 kHz."     =
=                                                                   =
=====================================================================

------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 14:06:03 -0300
From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: unsynced unmidied loops
Message-Id: <v01520d05aeba94b6b0dc@[200.254.32.101]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Eric Cook hit upon some really IMPORTANT points.

...and Dave hits again:
>And Eric's observation that looping unsynced can cause "truly bizarre
>counterrhythms"  strange "accidental" harmonies really rings true to me
>personally.  please, LET something EXCITING and UNEXPECTED happen!  forget
>PLANNING your loops (unless it's appropriate).  let MUSIC occur.......

Sure, my stile pretty much, too, as you know, and I tend to get emotioned
and off with you...
But some want to play Salsa... and I love Salsa, too... would be a pitty to
see them unsubscribe because of us crazy ones. There is a style for every
ambient (ambient is only for certain ambients! ;-) ) and a way to applicate
loops...
And, come on, at least 90% of the world population mostly wants to dance to
precise, traditional (synced!) rhythms!
And its great! Did you hear a percussionist fill a loop with a traditional
rhythm, using all of his gear? Thats a lot of power!


>I spent so much time trying to be a Todd Rundgren, making the perfect 3
>minute song, overdubbed to perfection. This is the WRONG route!
>
>All you get is sterility, songs worked to death.  Even the Neil Schon
>stories smack of this obsession.  No need.

You mean, there is no way to create perfect songs on loops without getting
sterile? This is serious!
I could not do it, but... noone? HELP, someone!

>Clear the mind, open the mind...allow MUSIC to appear.  Nothing too strange,
>nothing is impossible.  The best loops are those that just come...if you
>WORK at it...it probably will not be so good.

Absolutely, you can cook like that, even design a machine... hm... lets not
get fanatic...

>Matthias- you at least know what I am speaking of!

Aem...<blush>... just me? Sorry I do not want to break you on your trip,
its a very good one! And it might end up influencing all kind of music!

>Comments please!


Matthias

------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 14:06:11 -0300
From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Samplers as loopers?
Message-Id: <v01520d06aeba98eaadab@[200.254.32.101]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Me:
>> Do samplers replay immediately after recording?
Sean:
>Not mine, and I believe not most.  That's why I recently bought a JamMan.

So this would be the first thing to ask from a "looping sampler", right?

>> >A sample conversion function that will supposedly maintain a fixed time for
>> >a sample while allowing for pitch alteration, it is time-consuming and
>> >>absolutely not a real-time stunt.
>>
>> ... We might ask the builders
>> of samplers to have a optimized non real time conversion and another which
>> is real time with some limitations in sound.
>
>Good idea!

Second thing.

>> Another problem of samplers is that they do either record or play, right?
>> So its not possible to creat overdubbs. Do you record a second voice
>> without hearing the first and then press 2 keys to have both voices
>> sounding together or is this impossible?
>
>Once again, my old sampler (AKAI S612) had an overdub function which
>allowed you to
>press a button and simultaneously hear/record with the existing sample.
>My new sampler
>(ASR-10) works _exactly_ as you've explained.  Record samples and play
>them together.
>You can do other nifty tricks like splice sections of samples together,
>invert samples,
>merge samples, even direct the machine to play individual samples (those
>constituting a
>single waveform) in specific or random orders.

This must be nice at home, not so much for stage, right?
Or would you any of these features be usefull in real time?

But we need the AKAI S612 overdub function. Third thing.

>> Sean again:
>> >Two sliders were on the face of the unit and were used to control sample
>> >start- and
>> >end-points.  Both sliders were identical and were situated one above the
>> >other.
>> ...
Me, asking about the slider sample edition  AKAI S612:
>> You said that your new sampler does not have this feature, so is it rather
>> a especial one?
>> Or is there a different (more "modern") solution instead?

Sean answering:
>Actually, the new sampler (ASR10) seeks to automate a number of functions
>which the
>manufacturer designed under the assumption that musicians would use it to
>make standard
>bourgeois music a la any Late Night Talk Show Band.  In other words it is
>not as
>"open-ended" as I would like it to be.

One of the maior problems when programming a feature: The handyer we make
it for a certain purpose, the less flexible it ends up for other use.

>> Should such a feature be included in a dedicated looper? Probably... it
>> should not be that difficult...maybe the control of it could be by taping
>> instead of potentiometer controlers? It means that you save the entire loop
>> as recorded and then have a second tap facility to select parts of that
>> loop, without destroying it, just scaning over different parts of it...
>> Is this just fun or a serious tool to create music?
>> I actually one of my first customer way back in switzerland (a genious bass
>> player called Wito Wietn) wanted such a feature to analyze music. A tool
>> for studying, writing scores for ready music. You copy the whole song to
>> the looper, play along with it, loop a difficult part, then go on, loop the
>> next problem part and so on.
>> Could you do that with a sampler?
>
>In a sense, yes.  Using the function MODULATE LOOP-POSITION, you could
>loop sections of
>a piece (e.g., one-half minute starting at zero ending at 100) as many
>times as you like
>and then move on to another section with overlap of the first (e.g.,
>one-half minute
>starting at 25 and ending at 125).  This can be done in real time using a
>wheel to
>control the position of the loop.  The only thing is that the start- and
>end-points of
>the modulated loop would remain fixed.  This is why I want to use some
>type of slider
>that will augment or diminish the loop unit.  I'm actually trying to
>devise a way to do
>this on my keyboard.  I will keep you posted.

But as long as you use a slider to define things, you have a hard time to
keep something rhythmically exact. You have to find the correct point on
trial and error, while everyone listens to it.
Using a taping method you could hold the key to play the loop and say,
press another one at the new start point and let it go at the new end point
and from then on, this very key would call this new section (or multiple)
of the old loop. Does that make sense?

And the question remains how many people would want to use a sampling
keyboard for this. Sure, you want to use what you have as flexible as
possible...

Still, the only chance to have such a machine one day is to go through it
and imagine it working. And to only way to find out whether people want it
is to build it and show it. A hard way. The way new things came up.

Matthias

------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 22:10:38 -0800
From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: new web stuff!
Message-Id: <v02140b00aebedc5b2966@[207.171.196.208]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

New stuff on the web page:

Eric Cook's killer Drumming with Loops essay has been converted to
hypertext by Mr. Peters and now resides at:

http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tips/Drumming.html


Matthias has contributed the Playing Hints section of his original Paradis
LoopDelay manual, updated for the Echoplex. Even if you don't use the
Echoplex, its a great place to get lots of ideas for looping. If you are an
Echoplex user, its a must-read. Michael Peters once again lent his expert
hand to the html. Check it at:

http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tips/Plhints.html



I finally found time to update the archive section. Every issue ever of the
Looper's Delight digest is now available on the web. This means that just
about every post that's ever been made is up there. There are a few gaps
from October that I still need to get to, but there is more than enough
reading material to keep you away from fresh air and family members for
days. Wallow in Looper's Delight history at:

http://www.annihilist.com/loop/archive/archive.html



And if you haven't spent much time at the Looper's Delight web site, go
check it out now! There's all sorts of goodies waitin' there for you.


I'd like to take this opportunity to thank some of the people who have
contributed so much effort to making the Looper's Delight web site as good
as it is. If you don't know, this whole thing is pretty much a community
effort. Different people contibute their own little bits of expertise, and
the collective whole is becoming a great resource. When you think that I
started this only about 3 months ago, the progress is really amazing. If
you want to help out, just jump in and do whatever you think would make a
good addition. For now though, lets give these folks a pat on the back:

First off, Michael Peters. Michael does all the html coding that I never
have time for. He does a great job with it, and I appreciate his efforts
tremendously. Basically, Looper's Delight would suck without him. Michael
also created the loopography and history sections of the site. Thanks
Michael!!!

Then we have Andre LaFosse. Andre has come up with some great ideas for the
site and provided the initial energy to bring them to life. These include
the Looper's of the World page, the Echoplex faq, the tips and tricks page,
and probably lots of other stuff. He also wrote the Frippertronics essay in
the tools section. Thanks Andre!!

Then we have Tom Attix, who created the Looper's Delight logo, which I
love. Thanks Tom!

Then there's Matthias Grob, who in addition to inventing the Echoplex and
LoopDelay, has done great things for the web as well. He had the idea to
compile list posts by interesting topics, making for some really
entertaining reading in the archive section. He's also contributed his
fascinating philosophies in the musing section. And now he brings us his
Playing Hints. Thanks Matthias!

Thanks to Eric Cook, for coming out of nowhere and giving us a much needed
drumming perspective.

Matt McCabe, for being available to help out early on when I needed it and
doing some html for the web. Thanks Matt!

And Thanks to David Torn, for being himself and for giving us permission to
reprint his Guitar Player article on Looping.

Thanks to everybody else who has contributed ideas and advice to get this
thing going.

And thanks mightily to everybody who posts regularly on the list, making it
live and providing fodder for much of the web site content.

thanks!

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 23:18:29 -0800
From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: How does Schon Sync?
Message-Id: <v02140b03aebee9232b06@[207.171.197.15]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 12:17 PM 11/19/96, Andre wrote:

>The main problem that I see with trying to do an in-time loop live with a
>band is that the loop obviously isn't going to adjust to accommodate what
>anyone else is doing, so the band needs to play to the loop.  If the
>drummer can't hear the loop clearly, then there's a big problem.

I meant to reply to this some time back, but as always, no time....

There are a couple of other things you can do to keep your loops in sync in
a live playing situation.

One thing you can do is restart the loop from its beginning, at the
appropriate musical point. So if you notice that your loop has drifted a
bit from the rest of the band, you retrigger the loop so that it at least
is starting from the right point. This isn't ideal if the tempo has changed
slightly, but at least it gets things reasonably close together again if
the loop (or the band) has drifted way off. In most rock contexts, you
probably aren't going to have the loop repeating all that many times
anyway, so a few readjustments of a bad loop will get you through a tight
spot. I don't know if you can do this with other loopers, but with the
echoplex you just hit Mute-Undo. (when you are in mute, Undo unmutes and
starts the loop from the beginning.)

Another idea is to rerecord the loop. Obviously, this only makes sense if
the loop is simple and doesn't have overdubs. Its a pretty easy trick to go
back and forth between the looper playing a part and you playing it live.
When you notice the loop has gone out, just find a way to break out of your
heroic guitar solo for a moment of rhythm playing with the record function
on, and then get back to it with the new loop. Probably easier than you
think, and could done with a reasonable degree of finesse to make it
musical.

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com

--------------------------------