------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain

Loopers-Delight-d Digest                                Volume 96 : Issue 34

Today's Topics:
  Non-Vortex FX question! :)            [ pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr ) ]
  Re: Non-Vortex FX question! :)        [ angel@matisse.pet.upenn.edu (Emmanu ]
  Re: Non-Vortex FX question! :)        [ Dan Howarth <howarth@U.Arizona.EDU> ]
  Re: Acoustic Loopers?                 [ matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias  ]
  Re: Vortex problems...                [ matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias  ]
  FS: Digitech 4-Second Delay           [ "Greg & Sandee West" <gdwest@anc.ak ]
  Subscribe                             [ Alan.Maguire@mercer.ie ]
  Re: Digitech Whammy pedal             [ Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski,  ]
  Re: Echoplex problems -- help         [ kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) ]
  Re: Syncing to MIDI                   [ kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) ]
  Re: Fripp and the Plex                [ kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) ]
  Re: Ground Control                    [ kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) ]
  Ridiculous Echoprice                  [ erwill@ix.netcom.com (James E Willi ]
  I coulda had uh ebowed V8             [ "Louis Collier Hyams" <hyamsl@rpi.e ]

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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 10:56:36 GMT
From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr )
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Non-Vortex FX question!  :)
Message-Id: <12766.199612121056@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

A quick qn. about FX boxes.

Digitech make the Studio Quad, a 4-mono-processors-in-one-box system.  THey
also make hte Studio Twin which is _not_ 2 independent mono processors,
just a single stereo one.  Does anyone know if a dual mono box exists (ie
with separate processors running different FX, and responding to separate
MIDI messages) exists?

Michael

Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes      Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg,
Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979        University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K.
        "Everything in moderation, including moderation" (Zen Proverb)

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 96 09:41:58 EST
From: angel@matisse.pet.upenn.edu (Emmanuel Angel)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re:  Non-Vortex FX question!  :)
Message-Id: <9612121441.AA29559@matisse.pet.upenn.edu.noname>

Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes wrote: 

>A quick qn. about FX boxes.
>
>Digitech make the Studio Quad, a 4-mono-processors-in-one-box system.  THey
>also make hte Studio Twin which is _not_ 2 independent mono processors,
>just a single stereo one.  Does anyone know if a dual mono box exists (ie
>with separate processors running different FX, and responding to separate
>MIDI messages) exists?

It appears that digitech does not make one.
(check out http://www.digitech.com/studio/index.htm).

But if you want two mono processors, look into Ensoniq DP2 (~$600)
(http://www.ensoniq.com/) or Alesis Midiverb 4 (very clean,
inexpensive, 18-bit A/D, good reverbs and some multi-effects [I
just got one for $249]).  The Ensoniq has had some rave reviews,
and can be operated in true dual-mono mode.  The Alesis has some
dual-mono settings, but not all effects can be run as dual-mono.

Mickey

____________________________________________________________________________

Emmanuel Angel
Nuclear Medicine Physics and Instrumentation Group
University of Pennsylvania
Philadelphia, PA
19104

angel@matisse.pet.upenn.edu

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 08:59:34 -0700 (MST)
From: Dan Howarth <howarth@U.Arizona.EDU>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Non-Vortex FX question!  :)
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.95.961212085633.8298A-100000@tortola.u.arizona.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

i have a studio quad, which i've enjoyed tremendously. as far as i know,
the studio twin is two mono processors with linkable stereo capability.
(i'm guessing this because the quad has many, many stereo effects
parameters that i hadn't anticipated - it's basically either a four mono
or a dual stereo).
however, i doubt that each channel of the twin receives separate midi
messages. - i don't think i've seen a unit that does this (but it would be
great, huh?)

****************************************************************
**  Dan Howarth, History/Music, University of Arizona, Tucson **
**  http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth (under construction)    **
****************************************************************

On Thu, 12 Dec 1996, Dr  wrote:

> A quick qn. about FX boxes.
> 
> Digitech make the Studio Quad, a 4-mono-processors-in-one-box system.  THey
> also make hte Studio Twin which is _not_ 2 independent mono processors,
> just a single stereo one.  Does anyone know if a dual mono box exists (ie
> with separate processors running different FX, and responding to separate
> MIDI messages) exists?
> 
> Michael
> 
> Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes      Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg,
> Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979        University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K.
>         "Everything in moderation, including moderation" (Zen Proverb)
> 
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 17:07:03 -0300
From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Acoustic Loopers?
Message-Id: <v01520d01aed552a86437@[200.254.32.111]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>At 3:05 PM 12/8/96, Greg & Sandee West wrote:
>>Hi fellow loopers,
>>
>>I really enjoy all the technical experience reflected here and the wide
>>variety of looping done in various musical contexts.  Are there any
>>dedicated acoustic guitar loopers out there?  I'd like to hear your ideas.
>
>I'm not, but when I've talked to a lot of Echoplex users who were acoustic
>guitar soloists. Looping seems to be a great fit for that. I know there are
>a few acoustic loopers on the list, I'm sure they'll speak up. I was
>actually quite surprised by how many acoustic players got into it. I would
>say they made up one of the largest categories of echoplex owners.

Thats what I experienced. When I started the LOOP POOL CD project last
year, I got 4 tapes, 3 of them from acoustic (one nylon) guitar players.
The work is very different from electric carpets. The music sounds rather
"normal", like 2 or three guitar players. One piece is a flamenco where
just the taping on the guitar top is looped.

Matthias

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 17:07:10 -0300
From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Vortex problems...
Message-Id: <v01520d02aed555e32675@[200.254.32.111]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Thanks for the explanations. Maybe i'll have to unscrew the unit... I
>could have a spare pot of the machine, only i'm not so easy with it.

Is it realy a pot? Or a switch?

>don't dare too much taking the solder into it to replace the pot. I know
>that if I have statics on the bench, I may kill my unit, and i don't know
>how to remove statics when running the solder thing.

Thats not really hot. If you touch the unit and the iron before using, you
are almost done. If you want more security, connect the ground of the iron
to the ground of the machine. Then it is important to to touch a
disconnected pin of a connected chip, but thats hard to happen anyway.
In all those years of soldering I did not manage to destroy anything with
static charge, and I was not very carefull.

>And yes, I step on the idea of having th emchine
>for 150$ (in fact with shipping it was 234$) wich is anyway less than the
>equivalent of 550 bucks of the unit here (would you believe it!). That is
>the deal: half the price, half the presets....

Dont give up too quickly :-)

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 23:52:52 -0900
From: "Greg & Sandee West" <gdwest@anc.ak.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: FS:  Digitech 4-Second Delay
Message-Id: <199612131202.DAA08866@anc.ak.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi all,

I hardly ever use my Digitech RDS-4000 anymore.  Could anyone out there use
it?  It's got four secs of delay and a modulation section for chorus,
flanging, and even weirder modulations.  I think $250 would be a fair price
for it.  They're not made anymore, and this one is in perfect condition. 
E-mail me if you're interested and we'll discuss the details.

//Six-String Arts/"Recording the Art of the Modern Guitar//
Websites:  
http://users.aol.com/SixStrArts/index.html
http://users.aol.com/GregWest01/index.html

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 16:21 +0000 (GMT)
From: Alan.Maguire@mercer.ie
To: Loopers-delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Subscribe
Message-id: <01ICYV8QL6VM8XA887@kira.team400.ie>
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

     Please place me on the mailing list for loopers delight. My address is 
     alan.maguire@mercer.ie or alternatively send me instructions on how I 
     can subscribe,
        Thanks.

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 19:24:59 -0500
From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Digitech Whammy pedal
Message-Id: <v01520d00aed7a3c97375@[205.216.96.66]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I use the Whammy II (the jprices are dropping) and it has many uses ... at
the price (less than $200) it does not do a bad job of on the fly
harmonizing and pitch shifting within preset parameters ... but with the
pedal one can get in between various setting, create some interesting noise
... and do some other neat things ... shifting pitch one and two octaves
higher just before a good reverb unit and feeding it a good tone, makes for
some sweet lines.

Paul>



Calling all loopers
>
>     Does anyone out there have an experience good or bad with the Whammy
>     Pedal?
>
>     It appears to be something I could use, but just a shade expensive in
>     the UK. I'm mainly concerned with sound quality. Do its harmonisations
>     `warble' (as my Zoom pedal already does!) or is it (relatively)
>     stable?
>
>     Cheers
>
>
>     David

------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 21:01:02 -0800
From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint)
To: antonc@earthlink.net, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Echoplex problems -- help
Message-Id: <v02140b02aed90d8e5006@[207.171.196.20]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 9:28 AM 12/9/96, Anton Chovit wrote:
>Kim Flint wrote:
>>...
>Kim wrote,
>> You're particular troubles sound related, but different. Do you have one of
>> the very first set of production units? ...
>
>My brother Chris and I have 5 plex's between us.  We had oh soo many
>problems, but we sent them back to Oberheim and months and months later
>they came back (hooray!!) working much better.

glad to hear those problems got fixed! One of these days I will try to get
the mod that fixes the power up/down problems with multiple brothersyncing
echoplexes on the web site. You should be able to get someone with
reasonable electronics tech ability to do it for you.

>We still have glitches
>when running brother sync for all five, but these seem to be of the
>power up/down type.  We still have lots of irregularity when syncing w/
>MIDI and brother sync.

I think the crux of your problem is right here. By using both midi and
BrotherSync for sync sources, some of the Echoplexes in your setup are
probably getting confused. The shipping software doesn't deal with this
situation very well, but we did put quite a lot of effort into that for the
upgrade. Its been a while since the work was done, so my memory is starting
to fade on just how far we got. Matthias, Eric and I are getting ourselves
set up so that we can continue development of plex software, so I'll check
into that again and see if it handles your specific problems.

One thing you might want to try is just syncing everything to midi. If you
are using a sequencer or something, just sync all the echoplexes to that
clock source and don't use the brother at all. Or work our combinations
where each echoplex is only receiving one sync source. For instance, you
might want to have everything use Brother, with one of the echoplexes set
up to generate midi clocks for the sequencers.


>I have also noticed that when syncing to MIDI (sync= IN), if start the
>MIDI (drum machine, seq, etc.) then hit record, the plex goes to 000 and
>waits for the MIDI "one beat" (as it should).  However, if I delete this
>loop or try sereral takes, eventually, the plex looses the "one beat"
>and jsuts starts recording as soon as I hit record.  The only way to get
>things working is to shut off/on the plex, stop the MIDI and start
>over.

You shouldn't have to actually turn it off. If you stop the midi clock, and
reset the loop on the plex, then restart the clock again, it should get
itself sorted out. Still, what you are experiencing is a minor problem with
the current software. While it can keep syncing to the midi clocks after
resets or new loop recordings, it sometimes loses track of the "one beat"
defined by the 8ths/beat parameter. (that parameter should really be called
8ths/cycle)  I do recall focusing on this problem for a while in the
upgrade development, and I think it now keeps track of the "one" even
through resets and multiple loop recordings.

We just didn't have time during the initial development to work out all
these different scenarios. So even though we did do a pretty good job of
sorting through some pretty esoteric situations with limited resources,
some things like this pop up. You'd be amazed at how complicated it is to
deal with all the possible situations a user might find themselves in.
Especially since its a new sort of instrument, with a new kind of interface
and no serious precedents to work from. There were times when we would
spend days going back and forth over things like "what should happen when
quantize = on, we are syncing to midi clock, insertmode = replace,
RoundMode = on, the loop is being multiplied with the multiply function,
and rather than ending with another press of multiply, the user does a long
press of the insert button, which is now the replace function, at some
point in the middle of the loop?" Sometimes I had to wonder if anyone would
ever encounter some of these things, but I'm glad we dug into it as deeply
as we did.


>I have also been unable to get Roland or Boss MIDI gear to get
>the plex to start on the "one beat" (Roland PMA-5, Dr 550)  these units
>send MIDI clock as evident by the flashing green light on the plex, but
>when you hit record, it starts on the very next beat, not the "one",
>similar to the way JamMans tap into sync w/ MIDI.

I'm not sure about this one. It sounds to me like you didn't have quantize
turned on perhaps? There could be something strange about how Roland does
midi clock. Hopefully I'll get a chance to look into that.

Anyway, midi syncing should be much better in the upgrade, which I believe
in my heart will one day overcome the odds and actually become a real
product....

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 21:01:22 -0800
From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Syncing to MIDI
Message-Id: <v02140b0baed92b063d31@[207.171.196.20]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 5:59 PM 12/9/96, The Man Himself wrote:
>On Mon, 9 Dec 1996, Anton Chovit wrote:
>
>> I have also noticed that when syncing to MIDI (sync= IN), if start the
>> MIDI (drum machine, seq, etc.) then hit record, the plex goes to 000 and
>> waits for the MIDI "one beat" (as it should).  However, if I delete this
>> loop or try sereral takes, eventually, the plex looses the "one beat"
>> and jsuts starts recording as soon as I hit record.  The only way to get
>> things working is to shut off/on the plex, stop the MIDI and start
>> over.
>
>Yeah, I've run into this problem many times as well.  It's kind of a drag
>to have to power down, power back up, then start from scratch every time
>you want to sync a new loop.  Perhaps this is yet another element
>corrected in the upgrade?

Should be. We worked on midi syncing a lot. I'll have to revisit it to see
that it deals with the situations you guys are talking about it.

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 21:01:28 -0800
From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Fripp and the Plex
Message-Id: <v02140b0daed93248f1f0@[207.171.196.20]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 8:52 AM 12/9/96, S. Patrick Hickey wrote:
>Kim,
>
>So, you met Crimso.  How nice for you.
>(Seething, loathing, envious, hating, jealousy abounds!!! :)
>:) :)

So how's this: at the time, I had only listened to one of their albums
years before, when I had borrowed it from a friend for a week. So I could
hardly be described as a fan. So in addition to being totally unfamiliar
with their music, I knew practically nothing about Robert Fripp, aside from
little tidbits I had picked up here and there from reading Guitar Player.
If there was some magnitude to the event, it was certainly wasted on me!

I did enjoy the show enough to go out and buy a couple of albums (Thrak and
Discipline). I like the music, but it hasn't exactly been in heavy rotation
in the cd player....

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 21:01:25 -0800
From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Ground Control
Message-Id: <v02140b0caed92b7f59a9@[207.171.196.20]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 11:45 AM 12/9/96, Ed Drake wrote:
>Kim said:
>
>>Another thing you should know if you own or are planning to get an
>>Echoplex, is that the Ground Control cannot control an echoplex. At least
>>not with the plexes current software. This is because the plex doesn't use
>>Program Change to control its functions, and that is all the Ground Control
>>sends. (I talked with the President of Digital Music about this, with the
>>idea that maybe we could work out some deal where he adds some more
>>functionality to his pedal and we recommend it as the preferred pedal for
>>our products. That's when I decided the guy was a jerk, because he had that
>>"guitar players are too dumb to understand anything like that, so there's
>>no point in changing" attitude.)
>
>Kim , you may be right about the Pres. of Digital Music being a jerk, I
>don't know, I've never spoken to him, but he may have listened to you and
>Fripp just a little bit because with the version 2 software the Ground
>Control can be set up to send Control change on/off messages as well as the
>program change and continuous controller messages. There is a mode which
>allows you to set up your banks of 10 in a configuration where footswitches
>1-4 are presets (Program changes) and Switches 5-0 are control change
>messages. Whether this will allow people to use The Plex with the GC now ,
>I don't know. What do you think? There is another pedal called the Ground
>Link
>( List $160) which can be linked with the GC and it can be configured to
>have all 8 of its' footswitches be used as Control Changes .

If you can set up the switches so that they have a momentary action, where
pressing it sends one midi command and releasing it sends a different
command, then it will probably work. You would set it up like this:

On the Echoplex, set the ControlSource parameter to "cnt" for continous
controller messages. Set the midi channel to 1 (or whatever) and the
Source# to 36 (or whatever).

On the pedal, say you want to use one of the switches to start and stop
recording loops. You need to program this switch to have a mometary action,
so that it sends controller 38, value 64, channel 1 when it is pressed, and
controller 38, value 0, channel 1 when released.

If your pedal can't do momentary action, and only sends the one midi
command when pressed, you can still do it. Its just a bit less elegant, and
requires two switches for the record function. For this you also have to
set the RecordMode parameter on the Echoplex to "sus" for sustain. (this
causes the echoplex to record for as long as the frontpanel button is
pressed)  On your pedal, program one switch to send controller 38, value
64, channel 1. This will start record. Program another footswitch to send
controller 38, value 0, channel 1. This one will then end record. You won't
have any way to reset loops, so to shut it up just record a short loop of
silence.


>>There are a few reasons for the Echoplex being that way. One is just
>>adhering to the midi spec. Midi program change messages are intended for
>>changing programs, not executing functions like Start Record.
>
>I don't understand a lot of the technical business of MIDI but I wonder how
>Lexicon got the Jam Man to use Program Change messages to control Recording
>, Layering, Cueing Loops, etc.

Easy. The jamman interface is fairly simple, so they can use a simple midi
command like program change. Also, violating a published specification
simply requires that you write software that violates it. There is no midi
police that will do anything about it, and it happens all the time. That's
one of the reasons why midi is so screwed up. That's also why every time
Microsoft or Apple change their system software, half the applications out
there stop working. Its not Apple or Microsoft's fault, but the fault of
programmers who are to lazy or whatever to follow the guidelines both
companies publish for writing applications.



>Kim, it sounds like the Digitech isn't perfect in your mind either so why
>don't you design a MIDI controller with everything we'd need ? :-)
>Also, I think it would be a great idea for you to put a tutorial together
>on footpedals and the Plex.
>
>Keep up the good work ,  Ed

We almost did such a midi foot controller project at g-wiz, since several
of us were dissatisfied with all the products on the market. It was too far
down the priority list to happen though. The place collapsed before we ever
got near doing it.

I'll work on the pedal tutorial, maybe over the christmas holiday....

kim


______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 00:25:32 -0800
From: erwill@ix.netcom.com (James E Williamson)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Ridiculous Echoprice
Message-Id: <199612150825.AAA01243@dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com>

    I just wanted to annouce that the marketing geniuses at GMI, the 
parent company of Gibson and Oberheim, have decided once again, in 
their infinite wisdom, to raise the price of the Echoplex yet again, to 
a list price of 1000 US dollars, effective jan 1.  So, all of you iffy 
jamman people should jump ship immediately while the list price is only 
:) $700.

    And, If there are any Illinois loopers out there, please send me 
mail.

    Thanks,
-- 
James Eric Williamson - erwill@ix.netcom.com - erwill@heartland.bradley.edu
          One of Peoria's most obscure ambient blues musicians

------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 23:20:52 -0500
From: "Louis Collier Hyams" <hyamsl@rpi.edu>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: I coulda had uh ebowed V8
Message-Id: <9612152320.ZM18132@sparc.arts.rpi.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

greets and beats and I'll soon be outta new york and back to neworleans for a
time! yeah!!!!!!   }8-]

about the e-bow and the roland device.
it's physics dude. basically what yer dealing with is a midi pick-up designed
to respond to specific types of percussive vibration. If you were able to
make this hexiphonic pickup more sensitive(by a huge amount) then you might
be able to use it in this way. in most ways the vg is a synth more than a
effect.
from my experience with both the vg-8/gr-1/etc and the gk-2/2a pickup it is
not very practical to try to use the instrument in such a way.
furthermore, the vg-8 is designed to replicate(as in replicant) complete
guitar/amp/pickup and almost, even, technique ... if you could get the e-bow
to generate enough response from mr. V then more than likely you would not
get any of the qualities that make the e-bow what it is.
in my mind the vg-8 is an interesting piece that does away with much of the
physicallity of electric quitar.

my humble experience and opinions, of course.

collier

ps:
bought a vortex... think that guitar center and lexicon will recognize us as
the single greatest buying power of the vortex and send us an award? or
maybe, a tshirt? how bout an upgrade path?

eek!

}8-\

--------------------------------