------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain

Loopers-Delight-d Digest                                Volume 96 : Issue 36

Today's Topics:
  Unidentified subject!                 [ VanEyck <vaneyck@interlog.com> ]
  re:Vortex problems?                   [ "Bret Moreland" <Bret_Moreland@maxt ]
  Ridiculous Echoprice: Don't give up   [ The Man Himself <altruist@shoko.CAL ]
  re:Vortex problems?                   [ The Man Himself <altruist@shoko.CAL ]
  Ridiculous Echoprice                  [ Ray Peck <rpeck@PureAtria.COM> ]
  Re: Ridiculous Echoprice & software   [ JOHNPOLLOCK@delphi.com ]
  unsubscribe                           [ aconolan <aconolan@ozemail.com.au> ]
  Re: Looping vs delay effects          [ matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias  ]
  Re: Fripp and the Plex                [ matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias  ]
  Ed Alleyne-Johnson                    [ pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hu ]
  Re: Beyond Fripp                      [ Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.C ]
  Re: Echoplex power-up weirdness       [ "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.c ]
  Re: Echoplex power-up weirdness       [ The Man Himself <altruist@shoko.CAL ]
  Re: Echoplex power-up weirdness       [ "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.c ]
  Pocket Rock-it 16s sampler...         [ Kevin Simonson <simonson@uis.edu> ]
  Re: Beyond Fripp (long)               [ The Man Himself <altruist@shoko.CAL ]
  Re: Echoplex power-up weirdness       [ The Man Himself <altruist@shoko.CAL ]
  Re: Echoplex power-up weirdness       [ "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.c ]

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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 15:29:22 -0500 (EST)
From: VanEyck <vaneyck@interlog.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Unidentified subject!
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.95.961217152236.7996A-100000@gold.interlog.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

        Hi,

        I am new to the mailing list.  I noticed in the archive that there
have been some problems with the "new" Vortex units from Guitar Centre.

        What is the final word?  Are the units faulty?

        I am considering ordering one if they are still available, but as
I am in Canada they may not warranty the unit.

        Does anyone know if they are still available?  What is the best
way to contact Guitar Centre?


        For what it's worth as an introduction, I am a big fan of Gary
Lucas - any others out there?  and I really dig the Digitech PDS series
units as well as the 16 Second of course.  I usually inhabit the sort of
one man band sonic assault territory of the aforementioned Gary Lucas
sometimes treading towards the Helios Creedish stuff with a huge nod to
the '60s and '70s guitar gods.

        Pleased to meet you.

        TREVOR.
        VanEyck@interlog.com

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 96 15:59:07 MST
From: "Bret Moreland" <Bret_Moreland@maxtor.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: re:Vortex problems?
Message-ID: <vines.PP59+vKmhmA@Longmont64.Maxtor.COM>
Content-type: text/plain;
               charset=US-ASCII

VanEyck <vaneyck@interlog.com> wrote:
 
  I noticed in the archive that there
have been some problems with the "new" Vortex units from Guitar Centre.

        What is the final word?  Are the units faulty?
----------------------------
I just received a Vortex last week from the Hollywood Guitar Center.  It 
is good working condition.  However, it was obvious that someone else had 
opened this unit before me (was it a return?).  The inner cardboard 
packaging had been torn open, and the stereo interconnect cord for the 
footswitches was missing.  They said they would _see what they could do_ 
to replace the cord, which right now is nothing.  They did offer to let me 
return the entire unit and they would send me a new Vortex, which hardly 
seems worthwhile for a $2 cord.  At least GS has a very liberal return 
policy, 30 day return for full refund if you are not satisfied, if it is 
in the original condition.  

----------------------------------------------  
        Does anyone know if they are still available?  What is the best
way to contact Guitar Centre?

-------------------------
Call GS for availability.
Not sure what the best way to contact them, but I called 213 874-1060 
Hollywood GS to order.  The other locations and phone numbers can be found 
at:

http://www.musician.com/location/location.html

bret

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 15:38:26 -0800 (PST)
From: The Man Himself <altruist@shoko.CALARTS.EDU>
To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Ridiculous Echoprice: Don't give up all hope (yet)
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.91.961217153440.9533A-100000@shoko.CALARTS.EDU>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

True enough, Gibson's got some very suspicious logic in raising the list 
price on an already hard-to-market device.  But keep in mind that I've 
never heard of an Echoplex actually being sold for the $879 which was the 
original list price, or the $799 which was the previous list price 
according to an insurance quote I obtained a couple of months ago.  

So stores are still liable to sell for somewhat less than the list.  But
of course, the higher new list price coupled with the low market for the
device isn't a good combination.  I'm feeling luckier and luckier that I
managed to snag the thing for $400 a year ago... 

--Andre

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 15:45:46 -0800 (PST)
From: The Man Himself <altruist@shoko.CALARTS.EDU>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: re:Vortex problems?
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.91.961217153841.9533B-100000@shoko.CALARTS.EDU>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 17 Dec 1996, Bret Moreland wrote:
> VanEyck <vaneyck@interlog.com> wrote:
>  
>   I noticed in the archive that there
> have been some problems with the "new" Vortex units from Guitar Centre.
> 
>       What is the final word?  Are the units faulty?
> ----------------------------
> I just received a Vortex last week from the Hollywood Guitar Center.  It 
> is good working condition.  However, it was obvious that someone else had 
> opened this unit before me (was it a return?).  The inner cardboard 
> packaging had been torn open, and the stereo interconnect cord for the 
> footswitches was missing.  They said they would _see what they could do_ 
> to replace the cord, which right now is nothing.  They did offer to let me 
> return the entire unit and they would send me a new Vortex, which hardly 
> seems worthwhile for a $2 cord.  At least GS has a very liberal return 
> policy, 30 day return for full refund if you are not satisfied, if it is 
> in the original condition.  

Be wary that at least one or two of the European subscribers on this list
have ordered Vortexes from Guitar Center, and recieved faulty units.  The
warranty *did not* apply in these cases; GC claimed that since the
shipments had been overseas, the return policy/warranty was null and void. 

> ----------------------------------------------        
>       Does anyone know if they are still available?  What is the best
> way to contact Guitar Centre?
> 
> -------------------------

Your second question in the above paragraph sounds suspiciously ripe for 
a punch line, which I'm unfortunately unable to conjour up right now.  

As for availability, I heard recently that the "absolute last-chance
offer"  on the Vortexes was coming up, but you should keep in mind that
Guitar Center has regular "Best price of the year/One-time-only/Last
chance ever deals!!!" about once every two or three weeks.  Also keep in
mind that even at the current steal-me sales price, the Vortex is too
strange a beast to be flying out the doors.  You should be able to find a
GC somewhere that still has the things in stock and is all too willing to
unload the units.  It beats having them collect dust.  (I wonder if they'd
bother sending any unsold units back to Lexicon...?)

--Andre

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:24:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Ray Peck <rpeck@PureAtria.COM>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Ridiculous Echoprice
Message-Id: <199612180124.RAA28892@pure.PureAtria.COM>

James E Williamson writes:
>    I just wanted to annouce that the marketing geniuses at GMI, the 
>parent company of Gibson and Oberheim, have decided once again, in 
>their infinite wisdom, to raise the price of the Echoplex yet again, 

OK, folks.  This has finally gotten my attention.  Where do I get one
cheap?  (I know this has come up again and again, but I was putting it
off)

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 23:33:45 -0500 (EST)
From: JOHNPOLLOCK@delphi.com
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Ridiculous Echoprice & software
Message-id: <01ID4USCC9EQ8Y5W31@delphi.com>
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Dave Trenkel wrote, in part,

>on another subject, does anyone have any experience with the cheapo
>samplers that Roland, Yamaha, and (I think) Akai are coming out with?

Or with DJ mixers?  From catalog listings, I've noticed that quite
a few of these include sampling capability.  I'm sure they don't
loop, in the sense of overdubbing, but some offer fairly long delay
times.  It seems like they might offer fairly good bang for the buck,
by combining a stereo line mixer, one or two mic preamps, and the
delay.  The question is, can the hardware be hacked to allow footswitch
control of the sampling functions?

John                                     (johnpollock@delphi.com)
Troubador Tech on the Web-- http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock/

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 16:56:47 +1000
From: aconolan <aconolan@ozemail.com.au>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: unsubscribe
Message-ID: <32B795AF.35AB@ozemail.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dear Loopers,
        Can I please unsubscribe, I am getting a ridiculous amount of unwanted
e-mail.
                                        Thanks,
                                     Michael Conolan

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 05:29:27 -0300
From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Looping vs delay effects
Message-Id: <v01520d02aedcee5ac923@[200.254.32.138]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>This may have been discussed before, but I hear people mentioning things
>like "if it had more delay, I wouldn't need a JamMan". IMHO, there is no
>comparison between the delay you get on an effects unit, no matter how much
>delay, and a dedicated looping device like JamMan or EchoPlex wherein the
>player controls the loop start and stop point and *the material* that is
>looped. There may be looping  occuring in the delay effect but it doesn't
>have the flexibility for defining the *exact* loop one wants, esp regards
>what should be recorded and what should pass the delay line. This can be
>set up in patches or using real time control, but at some cost to
>spontaneity, as each tempo or phrase length would demand a different tweak.
>
>Though with that said, I love the happy "accidents" that happen playing
>with crossfading delays in the Vortex and using midi controllers to change
>feedback and delay time etc. in (my case) the Quadraverb 2.
>
>This is said to hear what others have to say on this, more than my having a
>strong opinion on the matter :-)

Beautyfull clarification!
You help me to see a forest and not just trees.

We have to say that some of these control functions are awailable on some
delays, like tempo tap, external feedback control, freeze, sound on sound
(even multiply, by hand on the t.c.). I built multiply into the PCM 42 and
thought about creating an "external Reset state" for it...

But still, most of the "popular" loop music has been done with the
limitations of the delay or starting out from the resulting music.

I guess thats what I meant when I felt we had to go "beyond Fripp" in
looping - get out of "delaying". Beyond maybe is rather understood as
"farther in the same direction", while I meant musical broadening.

Is that what you meant, too, Jon?

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 05:29:44 -0300
From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Fripp and the Plex
Message-Id: <v01520d05aedcf254b853@[200.254.32.138]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>I think King Crimson's music serves as a useful bridge between "normal"
>rock music and the wild n' woolly world of experimental and free-improvised
>music for people who are used to more accessible rock, are willing to
>be a little daring, but aren't quite ready yet for, say, Fred Frith,
>Hans Reichel, Derek Bailey, Jim O' Rourke, Dr. Nerve,etc.

well said, Paolo

I remember Fripp saying in an interview or so, that he had to close down
Crimson because it was going *comercial* - this was after "Red" had been
released... %-/

A few years later he reopened with "even more" comercial sound ;-)

I admired it and still do.

Matthias

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 09:57:20 GMT
From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Ed Alleyne-Johnson
Message-Id: <28132.199612180957@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

A while back I touted the greatness of Ed Alleyne-Johnson, and promised a
review.  Unfortunately I've not had time to listen to it recently so I
don't feel I could do it justice.  So it would probably be best (and most
objective) if I tape the CD and send it to someone.  

Basically the guy plays baroque (Bach?) influenced
counterpoint/rhythm/percussive stuff on solo violin and pedalboard, with
some arabic and Hendrixian influences.  I don't know who to send this to -
if everyone can sort it out, decide among yourselves and let me know.  I
really only have time to make one copy, though.  Maybe a tape tree would
work.

The album contains a lot of structured, non-improvised loops - is this what
we need "beyond Fripp"?  Structure, rather than improv?

Michael

Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes      Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg,
Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979        University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K.
        "Everything in moderation, including moderation" (Zen Proverb)

------------------------------
Date: 18 Dec 96 08:19:49 EST
From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM>
To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Beyond Fripp
Message-ID: <961218131948_74074.1316_GHQ64-1@CompuServe.COM>

Matthias writes:

>I guess thats what I meant when I felt we had to go "beyond Fripp" in
>looping - get out of "delaying". Beyond maybe is rather understood as
>"farther in the same direction", while I meant musical broadening.

>Is that what you meant, too, Jon?

Certainly, I was referring to musical broadening with regards to Fripp. I think
that there's so much more that can be done with delays/loopage than he's put
forth. Witness how far Torn has taken things, for example. I'm not sure what you
mean by "getting out of delaying". The delay (altered or not; JamMan/Echoplex,
Vortex, PCM 42, Midiverb, computer software, whatever) is the primary instrument
for all of us loopists, though other pieces are also utilized. 

Michaels adds:
>The album contains a lot of structured, non-improvised loops - is this >what we
need "beyond Fripp"?  Structure, rather than improv?

Not necessarily. Improvisation (at it's best) is where the real spirit of the
musician comes through. On the other hand, some structure can be very useful, if
for nothing else than to point in a direction. Personally, I find it most
interesting when both structure and improv are utilized to create a single
magnificent entity.

Clarification (I hope): I think what I was trying to say is that I see a whole
range a possibilities within "looping" that are not touched upon in Fripp's
work: Dynamics (mentioned earlier); rhythmic possibilities; letting go on top of
the loopage (I really love Fripp's solos, and would greatly enjoy hearing him
rip on top of some of his soundscapes); use of various sound sources (different
guitar tones-fuzzed or not or synthed or slide or ebow or scraped strings or
whatever; adding vox; adding odd noises; etc); harmonic movement, etc. So many
options not yet taken within his work. Also a small point: when I speak of
Loopage, I'm talking also about delays which do not "loop", but do receiculate
as a part of the music. From what I've heard, many of the soundscape pieces
aren't loops but many different long delay patterns.

Anyone who has heard "What Means Solid, Traveller?" by David Torn should have a
sense of how far looping can be taken. After all,the whole record is essentially
a series of loops. Some were PCM 42, some were JamMan, and some were
computer-derived. But none of it sounds stale. This album is very abrasive
(intentionally), but is a masterwork in the field of looping. And there are more
examples: Check out Robby Aceto's "Code" for some more pop-oriented looping
ideas (Robby is an occasional contributor to this group); Andre (The Man
Himself) sent me a tape that has some very interesting work, very strong
ideas--The Guitar Player write-up was well deserved. Also, coming in the spring,
I'll have a new CD which was entirely created on the JamMan. (Though not all the
parts are now played on the Jam-beast, but that's how they started). All of
these recordings speak to several of the issues I've raised. (And I'm sure there
are more, but I've rambled enough already...)

BTW--This is in no way intended to dis Mr. Fripp. I have the highest regard for
his work throughout the years, and he's one of only a handful of musicians who
have stuck to their guns in the face of commercial pressure and continued to
make interesting and provocative music. It's just that I think he could do more
in the looping arena. And I sincerely hope that he will.

Later,
Jon

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 96 14:03:02 -0000
From: "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.com>
To: "Looper's Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Echoplex power-up weirdness
Message-Id: <199612182002.MAA35984@scv1.apple.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

>>Kim,
>>
>>I've had my Echoplex for about a week now, and just about everytime I
>>turn it on, the front panel lights will flicker about in a random manner.
>> If I turn it on and off three or four times, it's fine.  Any ideas?
>>
>>Travis Hartnett
>
>I don't know, it sounds a bit sick.
>
>kim

Groan.  I'm loathe to send it for service, given what I've heard about 
Oberheim's service department.  Any advice on arm-twisting to get it done 
quickly (two weeks or less)?

Travis

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 13:49:20 -0800 (PST)
From: The Man Himself <altruist@shoko.CALARTS.EDU>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Echoplex power-up weirdness
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.91.961218134727.14260A-100000@shoko.CALARTS.EDU>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Wed, 18 Dec 1996, T.W. Hartnett wrote:

> >>I've had my Echoplex for about a week now, and just about everytime I
> >>turn it on, the front panel lights will flicker about in a random manner.
> >> If I turn it on and off three or four times, it's fine.  Any ideas?
> >
> >I don't know, it sounds a bit sick.
> 
> Groan.  I'm loathe to send it for service, given what I've heard about 
> Oberheim's service department.  Any advice on arm-twisting to get it done 
> quickly (two weeks or less)?

What about exchanging the unit for a different (ideally healthy) one from 
the place you purchased from?  That'd be a lot safer than sending it to 
Oberheim, I'd wager.

Incidentally, I noticed a sporadic wierdness upon power-up for the first 
two or three months that I owned my Plex; about once every ten or twenty 
times it'd start getting spastic when I switched it on.  Since those 
first two or three months, I haven't encountered the problem since.  

--Andre

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 96 16:15:26 -0000
From: "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.com>
To: "Looper's Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Echoplex power-up weirdness
Message-Id: <199612182215.OAA38538@scv2.apple.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

>What about exchanging the unit for a different (ideally healthy) one from 
>the place you purchased from?  That'd be a lot safer than sending it to 
>Oberheim, I'd wager.

Sadly, I've already sent in the warranty card to Oberheim, and Banana's 
won't accept an exchange without the warranty card.

Travis Hartnett

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 16:27:03 -0700 (CST)
From: Kevin Simonson <simonson@uis.edu>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Pocket Rock-it 16s sampler...
Message-Id: <199612182227.AA233188023@eagle.uis.edu>
Content-Type: text
Content-Length:        586

Hello all..

'Just had an experience trying out the 'Pocket Rockit' 16 second 'sampled
analog' recorder.  By reading the specs, it looks like an ideal poor man's
16 second delay (at 159$ !!).  However, the unit does not play and record
simultaneously, and the record function stops recording when the 16 second
buffer is filled.  Dashed my hopes..


-- 
Kevin Simonson                      * AS/400 Application Development Team
University of Illinois-Springfield  * Norwest Mortgage, Inc.
Computer Science, et al.            * Springfield, IL    
simonson@eagle.uis.edu              *

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 14:25:02 -0800 (PST)
From: The Man Himself <altruist@shoko.CALARTS.EDU>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Beyond Fripp (long)
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.91.961218134930.14260B-100000@shoko.CALARTS.EDU>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

All of the points on the "Beyond Fripp" topic are well-considered and 
quite valid.

One thing that I would have to say is that Fripp is the first person I'm 
aware of who was using real-time looping in a live performance context.  
I know he didn't invent reel-to-reel tape loops, or any other mechanical 
looping principle.  But I haven't heard of anyone previous to him who 
actually took the gear out into the "real world" and performed live 
concerts using this sort of hardware.  (If there is indeed historical 
prescedent for this before Fripp, please feel free to correct me).  For 
that alone, Fripp is sort of a Godfather to any live loopists, 
particularly those coming from a rock-oriented background.

A couple of things Jon mentioned piqued my interest:

> Clarification (I hope): I think what I was trying to say is that I see a whole
> range a possibilities within "looping" that are not touched upon in Fripp's
> work: Dynamics (mentioned earlier); rhythmic possibilities; letting go on top of
> the loopage (I really love Fripp's solos, and would greatly enjoy hearing him
> rip on top of some of his soundscapes); use of various sound sources (different
> guitar tones-fuzzed or not or synthed or slide or ebow or scraped strings or
> whatever; adding vox; adding odd noises; etc); harmonic movement, etc. So many
> options not yet taken within his work. 

This is very true; one thing about Fripp's Soundscaping work is that
there's very little in the sound of the stuff to suggest that there's a
guitar at work, since guitar synth seems to be the primary sound source
for these particular endeavors.  (Compare that to someone like Torn, whose
loops almost always have a certain guitaristic accent to their sound).  As
far as the soundscape releases that have cropped up over the last couple
of years, I have mixed feelings.  _1999_ impressed me greatly, and
demonstrated quite a range of textures and approaches (including a very
rhythmic approach on the second piece).  _A Blessing Of Tears_, on the
other hand, fails to reach me; I have to second Jon's comments about it
being homogenous and fairly non-developmental.  (It's also a fairly easy 
type of sound to imitate, I feel.)  

I skimmed through bits of _Radiophonics_ and found it more to my liking,
but haven't yet plopped down the cash for it.  (There's a four-CD
Soundscapes boxed set that's due to be released sometime soon by the
American branch of Fripp's label, so I'll probably wait for that,
especially since the fourth volume of the current Soundscapes CD series
will only be available as a part of that box.  Sounds like Fripp is
getting more and more into his role as record company mogul...  But that's
another thread altogether). 

Incidentally, the frist time I saw Crimson, over the summer of 1995, the 
soundscape intro to "B'boom" that Fripp pulled off made my hair stand on 
end.  It was abstract, angular, and very, very eerie.  I wish I could get 
a recording of just that bit...

> Also a small point: when I speak of
> Loopage, I'm talking also about delays which do not "loop", but do receiculate
> as a part of the music. From what I've heard, many of the soundscape pieces
> aren't loops but many different long delay patterns.

Uh oh, I sense a semantics war approaching...  :}  Should we make a 
distintion between "loops" in the sense of single overdubbed lines from a 
JamMan, Echoplex, or similar device, as opposed to having several delay 
units running individual loops of differing lengths?

> Anyone who has heard "What Means Solid, Traveller?" by David Torn should have a
> sense of how far looping can be taken. After all,the whole record is essentially
> a series of loops. Some were PCM 42, some were JamMan, and some were
> computer-derived. But none of it sounds stale. This album is very abrasive
> (intentionally), but is a masterwork in the field of looping. 

Very true.  It's several steps beyond the applications heard of "Tripping
Over God," which was based largely around a formula of bringing in a
rubato loop, soloing over it, then fading the piece out.  I don't mean
that as a slam against Torn at all, because there's some breathtaking
music that he squeezes out of that "formula," but it does become a
somewhat predictable pattern after a while (though I can tell that on
some of those pieces, there is a bit of studio editing/compiling going
on).  "Traveller," on the other hand, it several steps beyond that,
althogh my impression is that a large amount of that came from a
cut-and-paste approach on a hard disk recorder, which was applied to both
loops and to more "straight" guitar and drum parts.  

It's important to keep that sort of distinction in mind; when comparing
"Traveller" or "Tripping" to the Soundscapes discs, bear in mind that
we're comparing studio-assembled multitracked projects to live solo
improvisations (although there is minor post-performance editing on some
of the Soundscape pieces, generally for length.) When Torn staged his solo
tour in support of "Tripping" (and Trilok Gurtu), many of the songs were
accompanied by DAT backing tracks or drum machines.  Fripp's approach to
looping has always been based upon his oft-quoted adage of "making a lot
of noise with one guitar," and his work with the technique still seems
based first and foremost upon live solo improv.  (BTW, thanks very much
for your kind words regarding my tape, Jon.)

> BTW--This is in no way intended to dis Mr. Fripp. I have the highest regard for
> his work throughout the years, and he's one of only a handful of musicians who
> have stuck to their guns in the face of commercial pressure and continued to
> make interesting and provocative music. It's just that I think he could do more
> in the looping arena. And I sincerely hope that he will.

It's funny, but I've started to think of certain pieces as being in the
vein of what I call a "classical loop piece," referring to a single loop
being set up on one delay or sample-based unit which is then overdubbed
upon and let to play on.  The aforementioned Torn pieces on "Tripping" 
would fall into that category, as would pretty much anything done on a
non-loop-specific unit (which I guess includes everything except for one
of the Big Three) or a tape-based system, including the Frippertronics
phase of Fripp's work.  

There are a lot more possibilities out there today, particularly in the
realm of step-time digital assembly, but also in terms of real-time work. 
The Echoplex has all sorts of possibilities for real-time cut-and-paste
work with the multiply and insert functions, which I'll admit I still
haven't delved into as deeply as I should have.  It's easy to get caught
up in the classical looping approach, which may be one reason why Fripp
seems to stick to it for his work to this day. 

Wow, that's a long post.  Sorry to clog so much bandwidth, and thanks for 
listening to me think.  'Till next time,

--Andre

P.S. On a not unrelated note, I sent e-mail to the administrators at 
Elephant Talk, the Fripp/Crimson digest and Web site, asking that a link 
to Looper's Delight be set up in recognition of the fairly regular 
appearance of posts inquring as to the nature of exactly how 
Frippertronics works (there was yet another one in the current edition).

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 14:26:54 -0800 (PST)
From: The Man Himself <altruist@shoko.CALARTS.EDU>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Echoplex power-up weirdness
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.91.961218142532.14260C-100000@shoko.CALARTS.EDU>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Wed, 18 Dec 1996, T.W. Hartnett wrote:

> >What about exchanging the unit for a different (ideally healthy) one from 
> >the place you purchased from?  That'd be a lot safer than sending it to 
> >Oberheim, I'd wager.
> 
> Sadly, I've already sent in the warranty card to Oberheim, and Banana's 
> won't accept an exchange without the warranty card.

Perhaps you could get Oberheim to contact Banana's to confirm that the 
warranty is in place?  I can give you the phone number/e-mail of the guys 
in charge at Oberheim if you don't already have it, or you could try to 
arrange for Banana's to contact them.  (I know, this is all pretty 
wishful thinking, but it sure beats trying to nurse a glitchy unit).

--Andre

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 96 16:49:42 -0000
From: "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.com>
To: "Looper's Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Echoplex power-up weirdness
Message-Id: <199612182249.OAA75798@scv1.apple.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

>Perhaps you could get Oberheim to contact Banana's to confirm that the 
>warranty is in place?  I can give you the phone number/e-mail of the guys 
>in charge at Oberheim if you don't already have it, or you could try to 
>arrange for Banana's to contact them.  (I know, this is all pretty 
>wishful thinking, but it sure beats trying to nurse a glitchy unit).
>
>--Andre

I think I'll wait for a while.  Banana's has a 30 day policy, and I've 
had the unit since last Monday (I believe I sent the warranty card in on 
Tuesday).  The thing works fine once it's "warmed up", and it doesn't 
happen everytime.  

Travis Hartnett

--------------------------------