------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain Loopers-Delight-d Digest Volume 96 : Issue 39 Today's Topics: Re: Fripp Equipment -- Circa now [ James Coker >> JamMan mods?? [ finley@ecst.csuchico.edu (Matthew F ] Akai S2000 Sampler [ c62op27@ibx.com (Victor Fiorillo) ] Re: On-guitar control? [ pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hu ] JamMan techie question [ pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hu ] Re: Greetings =====>>> JamMan mods?? [ Dpcoffin@aol.com ] Administrivia: Looper's Delight **************** Please send posts to: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Don't send them to the digest! To subscribe/unsubscribe to the Loopers-Delight digest version, send email with "subscribe" (or "unsubscribe") in both the subject and the body, with no signature files, to: Loopers-Delight-d-request@annihilist.com To subscribe/unsubscribe to the real Loopers-Delight list, send email with "subscribe" (or "unsubscribe") in both the subject and the body, with no signature files, to: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Check the web page for archives and lots of other goodies! http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html Your humble list maintainer, Kim Flint kflint@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 18:37:38 +0000 From: James Coker To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Fripp Equipment -- Circa now Message-ID: <32BADCF0.226D@interaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Ott wrote: > > Is the sustain pickup, Micheal Brook's infinite guitar system? I read > in guitar player that Brook was keeping the details secret so > as to release it as a product. Has he done that or just gave one to > Fripp? > There was a lengthy discussion on either this list or digital guitar a while back. I believe the Fernandez system is based on Brook's guitar, but much scaled down, Brook's guitar has pedal controls and probably more power. I wouldn't be surprised if Fripp had Brook build him a guitar, since they toured together w/ Sylvian, but then Fripp has never seemed to have any trouble achieving long feedbacked sustain. jim ------------------------------ Date: 20 Dec 96 20:21:27 EST From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Bio modification... Message-ID: <961221012127_100041.247_JHB93-1@CompuServe.COM> >Just to say that I've got a K7 completed that is called "Store My >Secrets". So if this little box in my bio could be updated, I would be >extremely glad..... hi Olivier, what is a K7 (excuse my ignorance) and how do you want the text in your bio? Michael Peters private: 100041.247@compuserve.com work: mp@harold-scholz.de http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 17:54:25 -0800 From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: echoplex DP in stock? Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >fellow loopers, > >Due to the rumored Echoplex DP price increase, I thought I would look into >popping for another 'plex before the year was up. I discovered that >Manny's Music in NY (where I bought a 'plex for $480 a couple of years ago) >no longer carries them -- Sweetwater Sound (Illinois) has them back ordered >'till February -- and Sam Ash, NY is selling them for $629! ANybody know >any places that have them in stock and is selling them for <= $500? > >- chris > A friend just bought one from Banana's at Large, in (I think) San Jose, for $650 with the footpedal. You might give them a try. I have a number that's a few years old: 800-786-7585, might still be good. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 10:05:19 -0500 From: PMimlitsch@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Vortex/Jamman Tip Message-ID: <961222100518_1556875284@emout07.mail.aol.com> Well my Vortex arrived here Fri. from Guitar Center in Hollywood. I gave it a quick test run to make sure it didn't exhibit any of the problems some Loopists have reported their units did. So far it checks out O.K. I'm not completely sure since it arrived missing a manual (which Guitar Center is shipping). In the meantime I'm going through the Vortex Message Collection on the web page to get started. In doing so I came accross this in one of Dave Stanger's posts: "Here's a technique I use with the JamMan to get a more flexible, improvisational feel from it. When I first got it, I tended to use it to start a loop, then punch in more layers. But what I found was that things just got bigger and louder and bigger and louder. It had a very one-way dynamic. Now, rather than using the looping functions, I usually prefer to just use its delay function. There are 16 delay feedback levels, controlled by the knob on the front. Turn the feedback up high and start looping. At 16, you effectively have infinite repeat. As things build, you can turn the feedback down and let a loop fade, then turn it back up and add more to the loop while the older material floats in the background. " I've discovered(?) a way to do the same thing in Loop Mode. Somebody may have already covered this but here it is anyway.: 1) Define your loop- Tap in, pause/or play,Tap out--single blinking light 2) Hit Tap to initiate recording--single solid light 3) While in record mode send midi note message 9.10.or 11 (depending on fade length desired)--3 vertical solid lights. You're still in record mode but with each loop cycle what you recorded previous cycles is fading while you layer this cycle. 4) Hit Tap again and you're out of record/layer mode and your loop volume is frozen at the faded volume.--single blinking light. Note: Your loop in and out points remain in effect even if you faded to zero volume and you can initiate record/layer again with a subsequent tap. This way you can set up loops, fade them out, play "normal" (yea right) then rebuild a new loop at the original in/out length or tempo. To kill the loop hit Ring or Reset. I've found this particularly usefull in gradually changing the "character' of a loop or when working with a percussionist, fading a loop out, having a percussion solo section, then rebuilding a different loop at the same tempo as the pre-percussion solo loop. Take care and Happy Holidays to all! --- Paul (Stick Player/Loopist) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 13:47:19 -0800 From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Boomerang is at Guitar Center! Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 4:36 PM 12/19/96, The Man Himself wrote: >I was in the Hollywood Guitar Center last night, taking a passing glance >at the footpedals on display, when what should I see but a Boomerang >Phrase Sampler sitting there. I gave it a fairly quick run-thru, and here >are some thoughts: Thanks for the Boomerang review Andre, I've only seen demos and haven't gotten to play with one yet. I know some little bits about the beast that I can add, though. Also, Guitar Player did a review of it a few months back that was pretty favorable. I don't remember which issue, anyone know? >-- The overdub function only seems to work while the button for it is >being held down; this is a fairly significant limitation in my opinion. One complaint I've heard about the overdub is that it dramatically reduces the loop level while it is on, effectively giving a feedback control. Problem is you can't adjust it. So your older overdubs are continually being faded as new ones are added. The guy demoing at last year's NAMM said that after about six overdub passes, the first pass is completely inaudible. He had them change the software so that his didn't reduce volume at all during overdubs. That can also be a problem, since loops can easily build up to where they clip. I don't know if they have adjusted this since then, hopefully they have since that would be pretty irritating to me. >-- I didn't see any feedback control on the unit. There may have been one >lurking on the back panel next to the input gain, trim, and other >controls, but once again, I think I would have noticed running across it. >The volume control can be used to fade a loop in or out, but there's a lot >more to using feedback than simply fading in or out, and if this isn't an >available factor, then that's another fairly substantial drawback. You use the overdub, but its still really limited. >-- The sound struck me as very good. I was running a guitar (with a >still-affixed, broken top string -- see, it really *was* at Guitar >Center!) direct into the Boomerang, then straight out into the >standard-issue Fender combo, and heard fairly little difference between >the actual input signal and the looped sound. If someone's hoping to >loop higher-fi sounds than an electric guitar, they should spend more >time checking it out, but it seemed quite passable to me, especially >given the Boomerang's obvious slant towards off-the-cuff live work. I think its fine for electric guitars and maybe bass, but that's about it. The boomerang's sample rate is 16khz (compared to 32khz on the jamman and 41khz on the echoplex). This means that the audio bandwidth is only about 6khz, probably. This will be fine for a guitar with humbuckers (unless you are real picky), maybe a little noticeable with single coils. In the half speed mode the sample rate is dropped in half to 8khz, meaning a likely frequency response of 3 - 3.5khz. You would probably notice that, but it could still be fun to use. Still, as a cheap and easy to use looper for guitars, its probably worth taking a look. Another feature of the Boomerang is a large amount of loop time. It can give you something like 400 seconds in the 1/2 speed mode. (does anyone know the exact amount? I lost my brochure for it) I'm not sure if a 400 second loop is really that useful, but that's up to you. The boomerang doesn't have any features for dividing the memory in different loops like in the plex and jamman. >This is a very happening box; GC was selling it for somewhere around $350 >(one of those year-end Holiday deals, ya see). The half-speed function is >awfully cool, though I'm not sure it's $350 worth of cool for someone who >already owns one of the other Big Three. There were some things, such as It's that much on sale? $350 seems high. Its just a simple sheet metal enclosure with some fairly simple electronics, I can't imagine it costs much to manufacture. Jamman's are around that price aren't they? kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 15:20:40 -0800 From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Ridiculous Echoprice & software upgrade At 12:59 PM 12/16/96, Chris Chovit wrote: >James E. Williamson wrote: > >> I just wanted to annouce that the marketing geniuses at GMI, the >>parent company of Gibson and Oberheim, have decided once again, in >>their infinite wisdom, to raise the price of the Echoplex yet again, to >>a list price of 1000 US dollars, effective jan 1. So, all of you iffy >>jamman people should jump ship immediately while the list price is only >>:) $700. I haven't checked in on Oberheim on this yet, but I was wondering where you had heard it? >Oh man....this is unfortunate. Kim, Matthias.....or anyone else with some >intuition in this area: > >WHEN IS THE SOFTWARE UPGRADE GOING TO COME OUT??!!?? a few hurdles remain, but hopefully all will be well soon. Patience, a touch of zen, and the ability to perceive time on geologic scales is all you need... > >The frustration I'm feeling is probably what motivated Matthias to design >the 'plex in the first place.... > >- Chris The frustration you feel now is gnat-sized compared to what you would experience after you attempted to design such a thing..... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 15:20:43 -0800 From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Looping vs delay effects At 6:22 AM 12/16/96, T.W. Hartnett wrote: >I'm surprised at the number of people who want to control their Echoplex >via a MIDI foot controller. I prefer to have one foot controller for >governing my sound options, and one for the loop. I want to be be able >to change sounds and control the loop without worrying about what bank >I'm in. Having two controllers allows me to potentially have access to >all my presets, without having to reprogram my controller. I haven't >seen a midi controller that was flexible enough to handle all this, since >you can't have multiple switches "active" (pressing a button delivers a >preset, you can't have two switches "down" at the same time). A hundred >dollars is a hundred dollars, but I think that if you've got an >Echoplex/Jamman and a rackmount preamp (or two) and a stereo setup, >you're already in for a pile of green. If someone knows of a robust (no >skimpy MIDI/external AC adaptor connectors) and flexible (multiple >switches on concurrently, namable patches, etc) for under $500, please >let me know. > >Travis Hartnett One nice thing about the Echoplex pedal is the general ruggedness and simplicity of it. There's really not much that can go wrong, and if anything did you could easily fix it yourself. It's passive and doesn't require any power, so there are no wall warts to be broken or lost, and no batteries to go dead. You connect it to the rack unit with an ordinary patch cord, same as you would use for a guitar or whatever. So there is no special cable that can only be replaced from a single source at an outrageous price. We made the rack unit smarter so that the pedal could be simple and dumb. And therefore less likely to break. The electronics in the pedal are simple enough that anyone with a negligible amount of electronics knowledge could figure it out and repair it if they needed to. In fact, its simple enough that you could make your own pedal (or other sort of controller) if you want to. I'll try to put information on how to do that on the web page, as part of some kind of pedal tutorial. Also, the pedal is labeled nicely, so you can easily tell which switch you want. The only part about the pedal that tends to be a bit too flimsy are the switches themselves. People that like to stomp on their pedals with heavy boots tend to break them. If you fit that category, you might want to replace the switches with heavy duty, industrial type switches. Those cost about $3-5 each, which is why they are not in the mass produced version. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 15:20:46 -0800 From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: dj loopers At 11:33 PM 12/17/96, JOHNPOLLOCK@delphi.com wrote: >Dave Trenkel wrote, in part, > >>on another subject, does anyone have any experience with the cheapo >>samplers that Roland, Yamaha, and (I think) Akai are coming out with? I saw some really hip demos of these dj oriented loopers at the Frankfurt trade show. I haven't had a chance to play with them myself, but I think they offer some interesting possibilities. A key difference from the echoplex/jamman/boomerang loopers is that these were designed specifically for dj/dance mix type musicians, and therefore they offer different sorts of features and a different sort of control interface. I think some interesting cross-breeding potential lies in there... >Or with DJ mixers? From catalog listings, I've noticed that quite >a few of these include sampling capability. I'm sure they don't >loop, in the sense of overdubbing, but some offer fairly long delay >times. It seems like they might offer fairly good bang for the buck, >by combining a stereo line mixer, one or two mic preamps, and the >delay. The question is, can the hardware be hacked to allow footswitch >control of the sampling functions? > >John (johnpollock@delphi.com) >Troubador Tech on the Web-- http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock/ Don't know about footswitches and such. They probably take midi control. You are right, though, they lack many functions found on the echoplex and jamman. They do offer a lot of other interesting features, like transposing, bpm matching, and small sample libraries. Has anyone had a chance to check these out in depth? And since the dj subject has tentatively resurfaced, does anyone know any dj types that would be interested in joining the list? There is a whole world of looping in that genre, with an assortment of well developed techniques not found in the soundscape/guitar-loop variety that tends to get focused on here. I think some articulate dj types could give us a real interesting (and probably needed) perspective. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 22:40:44 -0800 (PST) From: finley@ecst.csuchico.edu (Matthew F. McCabe) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Greetings =====>>> JamMan mods??? Dpcoffin@aol.com said: >....to that end, I called Bob Sellon, the guy who did Torn's PCM-42 tweaking >(he's at 617-280-0395...not the # in the GP article...and seems to work for >Lexicon) >which no provision was designed in. BUT, he claimed, 1: that he may be coming >out with some Jamman tweaks, and David, Just wondering if Bob mentioned what kind of Jamman tweaks????? Matt ------------------------------------------------------------ King Never http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~finley/kingnever.html ------------------------------------------------------------ Matthew F. McCabe Able Cain King Never Marathon Records ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Dec 96 06:51:48 EST From: c62op27@ibx.com (Victor Fiorillo) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Akai S2000 Sampler If anyone has experience with the Akai S2000 sampler, please email me privately with your thoughts. I am considering a purchase. Also, if anyone knows of any sampling lists, please let me know. TIA Victor ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 14:08:11 GMT From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: On-guitar control? Message-Id: <22403.199612231408@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I would like to help, but my Vortex is still with Chris :-/ >So, what do you mean by ac/dc separaton and CC input? I mean separating the guitar signal (AC component) from the pot contolling the expression pedal input (DC). By CC I mean the Continuous Controller, or expression pedal, input. >>I don't have a Vortex, and my guess on the ac/dc separation might be way >>off, but... >>would it be possible to wire a guitar signal to a stereo plug, with the >>other tap driving the 'tex CC input? Could the signals be separtated by >>capacitor, >>eg > >I suppose the control signal is dc. You may put a cap to ground to keep the >line slow and thus prevent it from sending clicks into the parallel line >with the sound. >Why did you put the serial cap? In case the fact that you're setting the guitar input to the same voltage as one of the expression pedal terminals causes problems. I guess they're probably buffered so there wouldn't be a problem. But my electronics knowledge is about 7 years out of date, so this may all be bull. >> >>-------------------------| |-------------- >>pickups, vol etc stereo to amp in >>-------------------------| cord |-------||----- >>spare pot | >>-------------------------| |----=======to CC i/p >> Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Everything in moderation, including moderation" (Zen Proverb) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 14:12:40 GMT From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: JamMan techie question Quick technical question re the JamMan control inputs. Are the two common rings on the footswitch inputs at the same potential, ie can I wire them together? I'm building a pedalboard and would be able to run all the connectoins down a MIDI cable if this is the case. Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Everything in moderation, including moderation" (Zen Proverb) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 20:34:44 -0500 From: Dpcoffin@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Greetings =====>>> JamMan mods??? In a message dated 12/23/96 2:44:04 AM, you wrote: <<>....to that end, I called Bob Sellon, the guy who did Torn's PCM-42 tweaking >(he's at 617-280-0395...not the # in the GP article...and seems to work for >Lexicon) >which no provision was designed in. BUT, he claimed, 1: that he may be coming >out with some Jamman tweaks, and David, Just wondering if Bob mentioned what kind of Jamman tweaks????? Matt >> Frankly, not owning one, I didn't pay much attention to/understand easily what he described. All I heard was, 1; not improving stereo, 2; also, quite iffy whether he would actually do it. I mentioned it assuming others would call him to encourage his efforts! Have a loopyx-masx-mas!x David --------------------------------