------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain

Loopers-Delight-d Digest                                Volume 96 : Issue 40

Today's Topics:
  Re: dj loopers                        [ improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) ]
  looping techniques (was Re:Beyond Fr  [ kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) ]
  looping techniques (was Re:Beyond Fr  [ pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hu ]
  Oups!                                 [ Olivier Malhomme <malhomme@infobiog ]
  Re: looping /GIG!                     [ RA336@aol.com ]
  Re: Oups!                             [ improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) ]
  Re: looping techniques (was Re:Beyon  [ kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) ]
  JamMan stereo?                        [ "Jason N. Joseph" <73311.213@compus ]
  Re: JamMan stereo?                    [ kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) ]
  Re: JamMan stereo?                    [ Neil Goldstein <ngold@teleport.com> ]
  Ho! Ho! Ho!                           [ KILLINFO@aol.com ]
  icy blue                              [ Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuSer ]
  Re: JamMan stereo?                    [ erwill@ix.netcom.com (James E Willi ]
  Re: JamMan stereo?                    [ kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) ]
  Gibson quote I found                  [ Ray Peck <rpeck@PureAtria.COM> ]

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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 03:20:25 -0800
From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: dj loopers
Message-Id: <v01510101aee56943e9b6@[128.193.5.35]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Kim Flint writes:
>At 11:33 PM 12/17/96, JOHNPOLLOCK@delphi.com wrote:
>>Dave Trenkel wrote, in part,
>>
>>>on another subject, does anyone have any experience with the cheapo
>>>samplers that Roland, Yamaha, and (I think) Akai are coming out with?
>
>I saw some really hip demos of these dj oriented loopers at the Frankfurt
>trade show. I haven't had a chance to play with them myself, but I think
>they offer some interesting possibilities. A key difference from the
>echoplex/jamman/boomerang loopers is that these were designed specifically
>for dj/dance mix type musicians, and therefore they offer different sorts
>of features and a different sort of control interface. I think some
>interesting cross-breeding potential lies in there...
>
Could you be a little more specific? What was hip about the demos, what
makes them more specific to the dance/dj crowd? I fairly interested them,
but I haven't been able to get much info.

I think that there's a really interesting crossover between the equipment
needs of the dance scene and looping. I've been using a Roland mc-303 drum
machine/sequencer/tone module lately, which was designed specifically for
the dance scene, and it's one of the best live-performance oriented pieces
of midi gear ever. A fairly intuitive interface, lots of real-time controls
(filters, envelopes, arpeggiator), and a pretty cool feature that allows
you to trigger sequences from the keyboard on top of any playing sequences,
kind of like a sampler, but the loops come out synched to the master
sequence. It's definitely designed to allow a lot of real-time modification
of sequenced material. And it also makes a great master-clock for the
JamMan.

Hey, I've got an Echoplex Pro in my studio, borrowed, for 2 weeks, w/50
seconds worth of memory. First impressions: a very deep machine. With the
jamman, I fest like I had mastered the learning-curve in about 1/2 hour,
and then was on to really using it. The echoplex seems much deeper, and
that I'll barely get into it in 2 weeks. The sound quality is excellent,
though, way more "transparent" than the J-man.

Also, I've got a vortex on order, should see it in a few days...

>And since the dj subject has tentatively resurfaced, does anyone know any
>dj types that would be interested in joining the list? There is a whole
>world of looping in that genre, with an assortment of well developed
>techniques not found in the soundscape/guitar-loop variety that tends to
>get focused on here. I think some articulate dj types could give us a real
>interesting (and probably needed) perspective.
>
The liner-notes to DJ Spooky's records have some pretty interesting
thoughts on the african influence on the sampling/looping/manipulating
esthetic. Would it be a breach of copyright for me to quote some here?


________________________________________________________
Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org
self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/
"A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast
and bulbous, got me?"
                                     -Captain Beefheart
________________________________________________________

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 03:46:25 -0800
From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: looping techniques (was Re:Beyond Fripp (long))
Message-Id: <v02140b02aee543fb43f5@[207.171.197.25]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Amidst all the Fripp babblings, this caught my eye:

At 9:52 AM 12/18/96, T.W. Hartnett wrote:
>As far as some people's expressed concern on the "static" nature of
>Fripp's looping work, I think it's a somewhat unavoidable part of the
>process he uses in creating the loops.  A lot of Torn's work is edited in
>the studio, which gives a lot more flexibility in arrangement and
>dynamics. Given that most people have only one loop device in their rig,
>you're going to be limited to adding information into the loop.  Even if
>you've got an Echoplex, the Undo feature isn't going to allow you
>introduce a radical, appealing change to what you're doing.  It just lets
>you remove the last layer or two, depending on how much memory you've got
>installed.  That's not much of a compositional manuever, and unless
>you've specifically planned an overdub to be removed for effect, I doubt
>that Undo really functions as other than a "Whoops!" button for most
>people.  I avoid using it because maybe one in 20 loops strike me as
>fatally flawed.

I've already confessed that I know practically zipp about fripp, but I do
know a bit about undo and non-static loops. When we talk about looping and
its techniques, we are really discussing a musical instrument and an
amorphous set of techniques to employ upon it. We may even be talking about
a whole form of music. What happens when a new device is introduced to our
vocabulary? What is a function like Undo good for? How might we use it? Is
it really, as you say, a "Whoops button for must people?" Are we most
people? How many rhetorical questions can I ask in a row?

Think about this: When a musician first learns how to play a G major scale,
do they immediately unleash a torrent of hip altered-G post-bob lines?
Certainly not. If they ever do, its because some clues, instruction,
examples, and inspirations pointed them along that path.

And what about the path? Who or what inspired the examples? What were the
examples that led to inspiration? Guitars were first amplified so that they
could be heard over the louder instruments in the increasingly larger swing
bands of the 30's and 40's. Made life easier for those who's thumbs weren't
as callous-endowed as Freddie Green's. People at the time wondered what the
point was since banjo's were loud enough, and served the same rhythmic
purpose as guitars. Those weren't the folks who brought us the electric
guitar lexicon we have today! Fortunately, we had people like Charlie
Christian, Les Paul, Chuck Berry, Jimi Hendrix, and a thousand others
showing the way. The Robert Fripps and David Torns don't pop out of
nowhere. They absorb the existing knowledge and add unique pieces of their
own, broadening the whole.

Looping, as a musical language, is barely in its infancy. The Jamman is
about 3 years old. The Echoplex's 2 year anniversary recently passed.
Previous versions of the echoplex are maybe 5-6 years old. Throw in
assorted delays and tape systems and we can scrape together 20-30 years of
rather meager historical pickings. Do any of us really know how to use
these devices yet? Most of the looping vocabulary is only just being
created and explored, and we can certainly look forward to many revolutions
and innovations in the future. Those will come by us taking a step further
than those who came before, and seeing possibilities where others saw
limitations.

You haven't owned your echoplex for very long; none of us really has. Same
with Jamman's and hard disks and all the rest. If you keep at it, you will
keep learning and developing new techniques for a long time. Hopefully, we
can come together and share our discoveries and develop the art together.
Most importantly, before we decide that a technique is too limited for our
needs, or that we can't do what we like with the available tools, we need
to look up a bit a see if maybe others haven't already shown the way.

You've decided that undo is only useful for fixing mistakes. It is useful
for that. Creatively applied, it's also useful for much more. I'm certainly
no master, but I've discovered some uses that I think are pretty
interesting. A dense loop can be reduced to its simpler beginnings fairly
quickly with successive applications of Undo. One thing I like to do is to
start with a simple looping theme, and overdub layers to give it a
particular character. I'll then undo the layers to get back to the basic
theme. Then I'll start overdubbing again to build the loop in a new way.
Undo it again and rebuild. Sometimes I'll undo the layers slowly, sometimes
quickly. Sometimes I won't go all the way back, leaving an element in for
the new loop. I'm purely an improv player, but this seems like a useful
compositional device to me. And in fact, I know of people who have composed
that way.

You are seeking ways to make loops that are not static, that can change
quickly. Undo on the echoplex offers something here, but there are other
ways. Feedback control is the most obvious. Turn the feedback down, and as
your old loop fades, turn overdub on and begin developing it into something
totally new. I encourage you to explore this technique a lot, as it is one
of the most important in the limited loop vocabulary we have so far. For
long loops, Matthias taught me the way to evolve things quickly. On the
echoplex you can change the loop length by using the Multiply-Record
combination. Do that to shorten the long loop to a small one containing an
obvious theme. While reducing the feedback, begin overdubbing for a new
loop. Either use just the overdub function or use multiply to get something
longer. With some practice, you'll find it's easy to make smooth
transitions from one loop to something totally new in a short amount of
time, even when using long loops.

Another obvious way to get the static cling out of your loops, is by using
the multiple loop features found on both the jamman and echoplex. The
simplest thing is to record one thing in loop 1, another thing in loop 2,
something else in loop 3, etc, etc, and then switch between them. Maybe add
a few overdubs here and there.

Even better is to combine multiple loops with undo and loop copying. Start
off with a simple theme in loop 1. Copy it to loop 2, and add some
assortment of overdubs there. Switching between the two lets you easily add
and remove your overdub layers. (quantized loop switching helps a lot here)
Copy 1 to 3 and add a different set of overdubs. Now you have three
variations to switch between. Copy loop 3 to loop 4, return to 3 and undo a
few layers of overdub. Add some new stuff and copy it to loop 5. Suddenly
you have all sorts of ways to vary your loops quickly, just by pressing
nextloop.

Explore, explore, explore. Loopers have lots of depth, both unto themselves
and in what they can draw from you. Don't limit yourself so soon! See what
you can find and let us know about it, so that we can learn too.


>I don't think it's possible to have improvised looping ever match the
>shifting dynamics of edited studio work.  Even if you had multiple loops
>available to you (say four 32 second loops) with the ability to mix them
>in and out, how well could you keep track of what's going on, and how
>good of a job could you do, in real-time, towards organizing it into a
>structured piece?  It's a noble goal, but in the same way that you can't
>improvise a concerto, I don't think it's possible to whip up a coherent
>piece in public.  I wasn't attracted to looping so that I could
>cut-and-paste instrumental songs on the fly--I wanted to chase longer
>forms and textures, in a raga-esque manner.

And here we discover that our different tribes of loopers are not paying
much attention to each other. Hip-hop and techno dj's regularly employ
radically shifting textures and dynamics as part of their looping
vocabulary. Remix artist are also leaving the studios in droves to practice
their often amazing loop chops live. These guys (and gals) seem to have no
trouble maintaining numerous musical threads, constantly pulling them in
and out of loops as part of their musical constructions. I don't have to
think about whether its possible to do this live or not, because I've
watched people doing it. There's a rich vocabulary there to explore, full
of techniques not generally seen in the fripp side. Perhaps the question is
not what's beyond Fripp, but what's already here, running along
side-by-side?

To really define and develop looping as a form, and to push it forward,
means to pull together all these disparate influences and learn what we
can. Mix it all up, pull the good bits out and make something new. Expand
your horizons. We've got Glass, Reich, Fripp, Torn, Alex Patterson, Jack
Dangers, Jourgensen, Laswell, dj Shadow, The Bomb Squad, Reznor, dj Spooky.
Just a few off the top of my head and they're all totally different from
each other. I haven't listened to all that list, have you? And there are so
many other important innovators, all contributing to our loop language.
Keep your mind open to what they have to say!

kim




______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 12:12:25 GMT
From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: looping techniques (was Re:Beyond Fripp)
Message-Id: <12897.199612241212@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Think about this: When a musician first learns how to play a G major scale,
>do they immediately unleash a torrent of hip altered-G post-bob lines?

Is that post-bob as in post- Bob Fripp?

> Those weren't the folks who brought us the electric guitar lexicon we have 
> today!

Well I have a guitar lexicon.  I thought you used an Oberheim.

(Sorry, couldn't resist.  It's Christmas)

BTW one way of changing the structure - of possibly the precieved tempo -
is to loop your chords but not your bassline (I guess most people do it the
other way around).  By changing the phrasing of the bassline you can
achieve dramatic shifts without changing loop length or anything.  I picked
up on this when Glass' "Spaceship" from Einstein on the Beach was played on
the radio.  The piece builds in intensity without ever adding more
instruments, just by varying the organ part beneath a "looped" choral part.
 Very impressive.  

Michael

Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes      Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg,
Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979        University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K.
        "Everything in moderation, including moderation" (Zen Proverb)

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 14:01:08 +0100 (MET)
From: Olivier Malhomme <malhomme@infobiogen.fr>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Oups!
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95.961224135750.15543A-100000@lovelace.infobiogen.fr>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I'm sorry, habits die hard!
k7 is a short way of saying cassette in french, becauseit sounds exactly
the same. 
Lte us Just say that it is avalable. Anyone interested (if there is) can
contact me....

And if i'm not too late, Merry Christmas to you all...
Olivier Malhomme

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 13:29:12 -0500
From: RA336@aol.com
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: looping /GIG!
Message-ID: <961224132909_69122118@emout15.mail.aol.com>

here's a good example of someone setting about utilizing heavy-duty and
cross-discipline multiple looper guys in a fairly unusual context:

Torn is on his way to Japan to work with Ryuichi Sakamoto... he will
improvise (and loop) alongside djSpooky (scratching and looping what-not) and
Ryuichi (piano) in front of a hand-picked 70 piece orchestra playing a new
orchestral work by Sakamoto which is about *salvation*...
this will be a many-leveled and multi-media event using video and will be
taped for broadcast...
there's also (i understand) a plan to send RS's piano performance out live
over the internet as midi information for people to mess with...
sounds fabulous, na?

best wishes to all loopers for the season and the coming year!
Robby Aceto

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 11:06:04 -0800
From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Oups!
Message-Id: <v01510102aee5d8e022e3@[128.193.5.48]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>I'm sorry, habits die hard!
>k7 is a short way of saying cassette in french, becauseit sounds exactly
>the same.

Don't apologize! I think that's a great term, and I'm going to start
spreading it around. Though I admit that I thought you had released a 7"
single, and just mis-typed.

>Lte us Just say that it is avalable. Anyone interested (if there is) can
>contact me....

I'd like to hear it! Let me know how...
>
>And if i'm not too late, Merry Christmas to you all...

This is the looping list, so for us time is more circular than for most.
Happy Holidays all....

________________________________________________________
Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org
self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/
"A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast
and bulbous, got me?"
                                     -Captain Beefheart
________________________________________________________

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 12:23:14 -0800
From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: looping techniques (was Re:Beyond Fripp)
Message-Id: <v02140b00aee5eb6e9894@[207.171.196.190]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>>Think about this: When a musician first learns how to play a G major scale,
>>do they immediately unleash a torrent of hip altered-G post-bob lines?
>
>Is that post-bob as in post- Bob Fripp?

After 3am, I start developing verticle pyslexia...

>
>> Those weren't the folks who brought us the electric guitar lexicon we have
>> today!
>
>Well I have a guitar lexicon.  I thought you used an Oberheim.
>
>(Sorry, couldn't resist.  It's Christmas)

ho,ho,ho.....;-)

>
>BTW one way of changing the structure - of possibly the precieved tempo -
>is to loop your chords but not your bassline (I guess most people do it the
>other way around).  By changing the phrasing of the bassline you can
>achieve dramatic shifts without changing loop length or anything.  I picked
>up on this when Glass' "Spaceship" from Einstein on the Beach was played on
>the radio.  The piece builds in intensity without ever adding more
>instruments, just by varying the organ part beneath a "looped" choral part.
> Very impressive.
>
>Michael

That's a cool idea. When I think about it, jazz players do that all the
time. Have to give it a try, thanks...

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 16:40:01 -0500
From: "Jason N. Joseph" <73311.213@compuserve.com>
To: "Loopers' Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: JamMan stereo?
Message-ID: <199612241640_MC2-DE3-E9B6@compuserve.com>

Pardon the newbie question if this has been gone over before, but...

Why the hell did the makers of the JamMan bother to put stereo
outputs on the thing if everything it loops goes mono?? This has
been VERY frustrating. Of course it's entirely possible there's
something I'm doing wrong or something easy I can do to fix it...

If anybody knows, let me know! If this has been gone over previously
than please e-mail me privately so as not to clutter the list.

Many many many thanks,
Jason N. Joseph
73311.213@compuserve.com

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 17:23:28 -0800
From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: JamMan stereo?
Message-Id: <v02140b01aee6320e2eb3@[207.171.197.22]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 4:40 PM 12/24/96, Jason N. Joseph wrote:
>Pardon the newbie question if this has been gone over before, but...
>
>Why the hell did the makers of the JamMan bother to put stereo
>outputs on the thing if everything it loops goes mono?? This has
>been VERY frustrating. Of course it's entirely possible there's
>something I'm doing wrong or something easy I can do to fix it...
>

You're not doing anything wrong, that's the way it works. I think its a
cruel marketing trick that Jon Durant would be happy to explain to
you....:-)

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 17:28:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Neil Goldstein <ngold@teleport.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: JamMan stereo?
Message-Id: <v03007801aee5c3215262@[206.163.124.224]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Pardon the newbie question if this has been gone over before, but...
>
>Why the hell did the makers of the JamMan bother to put stereo
>outputs on the thing if everything it loops goes mono?? This has
>been VERY frustrating. Of course it's entirely possible there's
>something I'm doing wrong or something easy I can do to fix it...
>
>If anybody knows, let me know! If this has been gone over previously
>than please e-mail me privately so as not to clutter the list.
>

Send it publicly please.



Neil
ngold@teleport.com
Portland, OR USA

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 21:38:07 -0500
From: KILLINFO@aol.com
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Ho! Ho! Ho!
Message-ID: <961224213807_236951963@emout08.mail.aol.com>

Seasonal felicitations from...Ted Killian :-)

------------------------------
Date: 25 Dec 96 06:07:34 EST
From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM>
To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: icy blue
Message-ID: <961225110733_100041.247_JHB72-1@CompuServe.COM>

>k7 is a short way of saying cassette in french, because it sounds 
>exactlythe same. 

<bg> very simple, but it just didn't think of it ... there, I've learned
something again!

>And if i'm not too late, Merry Christmas to you all...

to you too, Olivier, and to everybody else. No snow, but freezing cold and icy
blue here in Germany. I'm listening to Michel Redolfi's "Sonic Waters"
underwater music which makes a nice tropical ambience ...

Michael Peters   
private:        100041.247@compuserve.com
work:   mp@harold-scholz.de
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 18:40:03 -0800
From: erwill@ix.netcom.com (James E Williamson)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: JamMan stereo?
Message-Id: <199612260240.SAA07297@dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com>

someone wrote: 
>Why the hell did the makers of the JamMan bother to put stereo
>outputs on the thing if everything it loops goes mono?? This has
>been VERY frustrating. Of course it's entirely possible there's
>something I'm doing wrong or something easy I can do to fix it...
>

That, sir, is why I refuse to own a new Jamdude.  I found the manual 
deceptive, and the VP of marketing for Lexland completely unhelpful in 
taking care of my problem.  I would rather pay $700 for an Echoplex 
than $350 for a Jamdude.  At least the Echoplex only has one input, and 
one output.  I ended up selling my fully-expanded Jamdude to pay the 
down payment of a Roland xp80.

I would love to hear what Mr Durant has to say about this feature of 
the Jamdude.
-- 
James Eric Williamson - erwill@ix.netcom.com - erwill@heartland.bradley.edu
          One of Peoria's most obscure ambient blues musicians

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 14:40:07 -0800
From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: JamMan stereo?
Message-Id: <v02140b01aee8aa9cf284@[207.171.196.193]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 5:49 AM 12/26/96, Jon Durant wrote:
>Hi Gang,
>
>
>Jason writes (and many echoes):
>>Why the hell did the makers of the JamMan bother to put stereo
>>outputs on the thing if everything it loops goes mono?? This has
>>been VERY frustrating. Of course it's entirely possible there's
>>something I'm doing wrong or something easy I can do to fix it...
>
>Very simple explanation here: The JamMan passes stereo through the box.
>So, when
>you are not at 100% Wet, the Dry signal will pass through in Stereo. For
>example, those of use who have our JamMen in a chain of effects, it will pass
>the stereo stuff through. Bummer that it won't record stereo, but nevertheless
>quite nice that it doesn't monofy that which is passing by. Dontcha think? And
>if you're not in such a set-up, simply use the jack labeled "mono".

I think stereo pass-thru like this can be useful in some situations,
although I've never found that looping a stereo signal in mono is very
satisfying. I don't think its a bad thing to have on a piece of gear.
But....


>Nothing deceptive here at all, folks. No one EVER claimed it recorded in
>stereo.
>We simply wanted to make it as useful as possible in a variety of settings.

Lexicon also doesn't go to great length to point out that the loop is only
recorded in mono. When you see stereo ins and outs on a box, you tend to
think it's a stereo device. Consequently, I've met a lot of Jamman users
who thought they were buying a stereo looper and were quite upset to
discover that they hadn't. That, I think, is deceptive. (or good marketing
;-) )

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com

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Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 15:50:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Ray Peck <rpeck@PureAtria.COM>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Gibson quote I found
Message-Id: <199612262350.PAA17015@pure.PureAtria.COM>

Apropos Echoplex. . .

from Electric Guitars and Basses by Gruhn and Carter:
"Gruhn aqnd Carter go on to describe the early experimental efforts
in electrical instrument design in the 1920s.  Gibson had an early
prototype as early as 1924 but found it very difficult to sell its
own corporate executives on the idea." from BAM 7/12/96

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