------------------------------
Loopers-Delight-d Digest				Volume 97 : Issue 102

Today's Topics:
  Re: Music Descriptions                [ Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.C ]
  Re: Music Descriptions                [ Kim Corbet <kcorbet@post.cis.smu.ed ]
  Re: Music Descriptions                [ The Man Himself <altruist@shoko.cal ]
  Some questions for an intro page      [ Mattias Ribbing <mattias.ribbing@ma ]
  Re: FS: Boomerang $399                [ Dan Howarth <howarth@U.Arizona.EDU> ]
  Re: Music Descriptions                [ "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.c ]
  Re: FS: Boomerang $399                [ Rick Canton <rpc@cyberportal.net> ]
  Re: Some questions for an intro page  [ "Stephen P. Goodman" <sgoodman@prim ]
  Re: Music Descriptions NOISE NOISE N  [ BobbyZZZ@aol.com ]
  Re: Music Descriptions NOISE NOISE N  [ vajra1@mho.net (Robert Phelps) ]
  Stuff for looping intro               [ hporter@UAkron.Edu (Hayden Porter) ]
  new music - From The Caves Of The Ir  [ Stew Benedict <benedict@netcom.com> ]
  Re: gear schmear, music is best       [ hporter@UAkron.Edu (Hayden Porter) ]
  looping=ambient?????                  [ JFOG10@aol.com ]
  Re: Stuff for looping intro           [ Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com> ]

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------------------------------
Date: 02 Jul 97 15:59:52 EDT
From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM>
To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Music Descriptions
Message-ID: <970702195951_74074.1316_GHP92-1@CompuServe.COM>

Dave writes:

>I help out at a local CD store, Happy Trails Records, Corvallis' only hip
>record store. I worked there for years, and now I help keeping the jazz,
>ethnic, and electronic sections stocked with cool stuff. Anyway, I was
>there the other day going through the new releases bulletin from Valley
>Music, our main distributor. Evidently, they just picked up Jon Durant's
>Alchemy Label, as I noticed most of their titles were lested as new
>releases. What was interesting was how they were categorized: Gary Willis
>was in jazz, Caryn Lin and Brian Gingrich in New Age, and Robby Aceto in
>Rock/Pop. Just thought this was interesting...

Interesting, and fairly logical, given what we all do. I assume that the
Krantz/Stern CD was also listed in Jazz, and my CD was in New Age? 

BTW, did anyone catch the review of my new CD in Guitar Magazine (in the Stevie
Ray cover issue, July I think)? The reviewer, Jon Chappell, had an interesting
hook: "Progressively Textural." OK, sounds about right.

Later,
Jon Durant

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 15:03:49 -0500 (CDT)
From: Kim Corbet <kcorbet@post.cis.smu.edu>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Music Descriptions
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9707021442.A14969-0100000@post.cis.smu.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> Why not just think up some new descriptive term if you don't like what's
> available? For example, it wasn't so long ago that there was no music
> called Industrial. But as soon as someone did label their music Industrial,
> it was pretty clear what they meant.

> We don't go in the record store expecting to find a section called
> "drumming," containing all the music with percussion used in it. Why do we
> hope for a section just for loop based music? I expect to find it anywhere.

very good points.  someday, availability of such "labels" at retail 
outlets WILL be available depending on the depth of computerized 
cross-referencing.  This, once again, is the crux of the issue.  Anyone 
who is playing for more than personal pleasure needs to be aware that the 
world requires an appropriate interface in terms of categorization.  If 
nothing else than for shorthand.  The very first time someone used the 
word "Industrial", it MAY have referred to the textures it came to be 
associated with.  It could have also been a description of assembly line 
structure without regard to specific style or music performed in obsolete 
factory buildings (like "House" being an offshoot of dance parties at 
the "Warehouse") or any one of a number of meanings.  Industrial only
had sonic meaning with time and consistency. 

It's unfortunate that there is so much bandwagoning of the use of popular 
cliches or styles of the day...it's also a convenient way of, hopefully, 
creating some sort of understanding when it comes to artforms that 
shouldn't NEED verbage.  And I guess I'm being victimized by the overuse
of the term jazz...too bad, cause it sure is useful when describing the 
improvisational aspect of what I frequently play...the music is directly
tied to jazzrock fusion or the early 70s, freejazz of the 50s/60s, all 
the way back to the process and musical roles employed by the freer 
dixieland groups into the last century.  

I think it CAN be instructive to step back and take a look at where our 
contemporary roots are and be willing to see what we're doing from that 
perspective.  If grunge or some alternative bands, for example, don't 
understand their own connection to punk, earlier garage metal bands or 
Chicago blues bands or wherever the case is, they're operating under 
delusions of originality.  It may not matter to them personally, but
they end up being ignorant of what their musical ancestors have done and 
how that history may instruct their own inspiration.

I wish we didn't need the labels, original or otherwise, but, for better 
or worse, it's there.  We can ignore them or twist them to our advantage.  
We don't have a choice about the their presence, only how we respond to 
it.

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 13:57:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: The Man Himself <altruist@shoko.calarts.edu>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Music Descriptions
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.91.970702133340.15889A-100000@shoko.calarts.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On 2 Jul 1997, Jon Durant wrote:

> BTW, did anyone catch the review of my new CD in Guitar Magazine (in the Stevie
> Ray cover issue, July I think)? The reviewer, Jon Chappell, had an interesting
> hook: "Progressively Textural." OK, sounds about right.

I was just in a bookstore the other day, leafing through the magazine 
rack, when I thought, "Say, Jon Durant said his new disc was reviewed in 
the SRV issue of _Guitar_ magazine."  Sure enough, there it was.  A very 
positive review, as well -- congratulations, Jon!  And it's good to see 
that the Alchemy roster is being picked up for in-store distribution -- 
no mean feat for an avante-oriented indie label.  (I think CMP -- or 
whatever they're called now -- could learn a thing or two from you as far 
as what to do with a roster of talented artists...  but anyway...)

_Guitar_ and _Guitar Shop_ both seem to be good outlets for coverage of
more "out there" music; Pete Prown in particular, who writes for the
former and edits the latter, is an avowed prog-rock/experimental fan, and
devotes a substantial amount of print space to more off-beat, unusual
releases.  It's nice that there's some sort of outlet for that music
seeping through the pop market-oriented coverage that tends to pervade
most of the mainstream music press, particularly as the aforementioned
mags tend to be slanted towards more mainstream-minded readers.  They're
not really any closer than anyone else towards coming up with elegant
labels for more off-beat music, however. 

I still think that we're moving into a good period in terms of general
receptiveness for what I'll generally refer to as electronically-derived
loop-based music, which I think probably applies to just about everyone on
this list regardless of stylistic or genre-specific orientation.  Whether
or not one buys into the whole "electronica as the new pop music" scenario
(though I am curious to see if the new Prodigy album lives up to its
prophecy as 'the "Nevermind" of techno,') I do think there's an increased
curiosity and receptiveness towards electronically-based music,
particularly of the live variety.  Now is perhaps as good a time as ever
for us to take our craft out into the public eye. 

--Andre

p.s. - with the deluge of guitarists releasing techno/dance albums these
days, I can't help but think how far ahead of the zeitgiest Torn was when
he dabbled so successfully with electronic music on last year's _What
Means Solid, Traveller?_.  I suspect it'll still sound fresh when most of
the rest of the current crop of electronic music reeks of late-'90s dance
crossover.  Too bad CMP didn't know what to do with it! 

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 23:12:55 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Mattias Ribbing <mattias.ribbing@mailbox.swipnet.se>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Some questions for an intro page
Message-Id: <199707022112.XAA13193@mailbox.swip.net>
Content-Type: text/plain

Hello,

Here are a couple of questions. I can send more as I come up with any. Other
newbies: Please write some of your own. Some of these might sound stupid for
someone who has been doing this for a long time, but I think that these are
the kinds of questions that people will ask that have just become interested
in looping. If these questions are to be put on a web page, please correct
any spelling or grammatical mistakes, since I«m not a native english speaker. 


How many looping tracks can you add to one loop?

Is "ambient music" the only music that looping artists play?

Can a looping device be used as an ordinary digital delay and reverb?

When you finnish a looped piece of music, are there any other ways to end it
than just stopping it?

What«s the main difference between the looping devices on the market other
than the memory?

How much in general do you have to pay for a good looping device that you
wont outgrow too quickly?

Do looping devices work together with midi?

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 14:45:12 -0700 (MST)
From: Dan Howarth <howarth@U.Arizona.EDU>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: FS: Boomerang $399
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.96.970702144323.81764A-100000@aruba.u.arizona.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, james rhodes wrote:

> and an Echoplex . he used a Boomerang with 4 meg (about 4.4 minutes i think)
> he said he bought it new with the 4 meg upgrade for $630.00 after
> shipping...but i dont know what a 1 meg sells for street price...i was

isn't this a LOT of memory for only four megs? if you expand the echoplex,
i thought you could only get around 100 seconds... could someone clarify
the different expansions, simm-type and amount, et al.

sounds to me like the boomerang is the deal.

**  Dan Howarth <howarth@u.arizona.edu>                       **
**  Classics-History-Music.  University of Arizona, Tucson    **
**  http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth 		              **

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 97 11:37:19 -0000
From: "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.com>
To: "Looper's Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Music Descriptions
Message-Id: <199707021635.JAA30984@scv4.apple.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

>> In any case, I am still faced with a problem when I try to get gigs. I
>> usually play at bookstores/art shows/galleries..and while booking the
>> gig, I'm faced with "What kind of music do you play" by the booking
>> agent for the venue.
>
>Actually, if you look them in the eye, and say "Ambient", then when they
>ask, say something short and simple as with "You know about 'Techno' or
>electronic?"  [pause]  "It's like that, but softer.  You can eat to it."
>
>Restaurateurs, I suspect, would mostly hear the last sentence, n'est-ce
>pas?  And it's true, too.
>
>I wonder if there's an ambient version of Louie Louie in our future? 
>[shudder]  What if the club owner who demands it turns out to be the kind
>of shmoe who thinks Jean Michel Jarre are three French guys? [g]  But I
>digress...  

I've had mostly good results trying to be background ambience while 
people eat, but there are some people who react quite violently to what 
they regard as "droney noise", and this is in reaction to some really 
unobstrusive sound carpets.  Some people are driven nuts by "waiting for 
the real music to start", and can't listen to ambient stuff without 
drums, fixed chord changes, etc.

Travis Hartnett

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 16:44:55 -0700
From: Rick Canton <rpc@cyberportal.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: FS: Boomerang $399
Message-ID: <33BAE7F7.7258@cyberportal.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dan Howarth wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, james rhodes wrote:
> 
> > and an Echoplex . he used a Boomerang with 4 meg (about 4.4 minutes i think)
> > he said he bought it new with the 4 meg upgrade for $630.00 after
> > shipping...but i dont know what a 1 meg sells for street price...i was
> 
> isn't this a LOT of memory for only four megs? if you expand the echoplex,
> i thought you could only get around 100 seconds... could someone clarify
> the different expansions, simm-type and amount, et al.
> 
> sounds to me like the boomerang is the deal.
> 
> **  Dan Howarth <howarth@u.arizona.edu>                       **
> **  Classics-History-Music.  University of Arizona, Tucson    **
> **  http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth                         **


 but what is the sample frequencies or the boomerang? 
echoplex = cd quality , maximum 198 seconds.
i thought i saw that the `rang had lower sampling rates w/ longer loop 
times....??

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 15:10:35 -0700
From: "Stephen P. Goodman" <sgoodman@primenet.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Some questions for an intro page
Message-Id: <199707022211.PAA06462@usr07.primenet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Ok, here goes for a start...

> How many looping tracks can you add to one loop?

This is depending upon the available technology at the time.  Presently on
the method I use - a Digitech 7.6-second 'Time Machine', I can produce up
to 16 layers/stacks before they start 'popping off the stack', and out of
earshot.  Theoretically I can put 16 loops of equal length down before I
hit the 'ceiling'.
 
> Is "ambient music" the only music that looping artists play?

No.  Although my milieu at this time is primarily ambient, I also play with
people like Oil Junkys, who do electronic work of a nearly 'musique
concrete' nature.  They use Echoplexes for looping, and it's a different
animal altogether (which leads back to the first question!).  My primary
influences go back to Eno, Fripp, and others doing loop experiments years
ago, which naturally slid me into the Ambient arena.  We could all go on
about this one, and we have too!

This question is best answered by all of us on this list, to state the
'kind' of music we play.

> Can a looping device be used as an ordinary digital delay and reverb?

If the device IS a delay or reverb, or a multi-effects unit, sure!  If it's
an EchoPlex or other tape-based device, I'm sure this works also, though
differently.  The main problem with combining functionality in this regard
is that these units are not multi-processing, multi-user in design.  I
suspect the main idea is to make us all buy a separate effects box for each
foot of cable we use, huh?

> When you finnish a looped piece of music, are there any other ways to end
it
> than just stopping it?

With a 'garden variety' loop like mine, or one using tape, you can either
just leave the loop open, and let each layer pop off the top of the 'stack'
of loops, making sure that the Feedback is not quite set to infinite.  This
produces a naturally-deconstructing loop, which eventually just stops
outputting anything.

> What«s the main difference between the looping devices on the market
other
> than the memory?

Method, I believe.  The JamMan / etc. users should pipe up on this one.

> How much in general do you have to pay for a good looping device that you
> wont outgrow too quickly?

I've been banging on my Digitech 7.6 for 5 years now, and I bought it used
in '92 for $125.

> Do looping devices work together with midi?

Ones made later than mine do.  This is especially useful (if not necessary)
with MIDI, since some analog-controlled loops (like mine, no meter-setting,
using knobs) can only provide an approximation of loop length via our
brains.  I therefore find the Digitech 7.6 somewhat useless in this regard,
since I can't EXACTLY determine or set length to something else, except by
ear.

I'd be glad to compile all our responses together if Kim's too swamped with
it, by the way.

* Stephen Goodman            It's the Loop Of The Week!  And it's free!
* EarthLight Productions      http://www.primenet.com/~sgoodman/Studios

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 19:56:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: BobbyZZZ@aol.com
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Music Descriptions NOISE NOISE NOISE
Message-ID: <970702195538_1757022211@emout11.mail.aol.com>

In a message dated 7/2/97 11:14:11 PM, you wrote:

>> Isnt Noise something rather negative?
>
>Interestingly, I've never thought of noise (in this context) as being
>entirely negative.  Then again, ever since I discovered my dad's old
>reel-to-reel and began experimenting with loops (many, many years ago) I've
>been captivated by noise (aka sound).  

hi all!
a good book for anyone into the history of "noise" is a volume called
(suprisingly enough) "Noise" by Jacques Attali....a VERY interesting and
somewhat academic study on noise, and what the concept of noise entails in
many ways. i'm sure any of you loopers would be into this book....so head to
the library now!
bobby d/lvx nova

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 19:07:09 +0100
From: vajra1@mho.net (Robert Phelps)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Music Descriptions NOISE NOISE NOISE
Message-Id: <v01520d00afe0485238d6@[206.156.104.153]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>hi all!
>a good book for anyone into the history of "noise" is a volume called
>(suprisingly enough) "Noise" by Jacques Attali....a VERY interesting and
>somewhat academic study on noise, and what the concept of noise entails in
>many ways. i'm sure any of you loopers would be into this book....so head to
>the library now!
>bobby d/lvx nova

Excellent suggestion Bobby! I'd add,tho I'm sure many already own a copy,
that there is much to absorb re this "descriptions" thread in Brian Eno:The
Vertical Colour of Sound. A must have for any ambient/loop enthusiast. B.P.

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 21:59:37 -0400
From: hporter@UAkron.Edu (Hayden Porter)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Stuff for looping intro
Message-Id: <v01510101630bd463a78a@[130.101.6.63]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi all,

This issue may fit in with the looping intro thread.

I use a loop device that does not have midi sync or tap tempo for setting
delay time.  I only have knobs.

When I first started looping, I often had problems with getting the
delay(record) time to match up with the tempo (beats/minute) and
meter(number of beats/measure) of my musical ideas.  I would often spend
alot of time tweaking knobs and changing my idea until the machine and my
idea agreed.  Then of course I would come up with another and go through
the process again. :-(

I am sure there is a process or formulae for solving this problem, but I
havent come up with a satisfactory solution yet (I am still compromising my
musical ideas to fit the machine).

To clarify, here is an example:

How much delay time would it take to create a 2 bar groove in 7/4 at 100
beats/minute?

Just the facts 'mam:

14 beats at 100 beats/minute
100 beats/minute = 1.7 beats/second
14 * 1.7 = 23.8 seconds

Unfortunately I've got 8 seconds max with my machine.

I would rather not get out the pen, paper and calculator just to get a
simple groove going.

How do you folks deal with this problem?

Later,

Hayden Porter
hporter@uakron.edu

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 19:04:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Stew Benedict <benedict@netcom.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
cc: stickwire-l.netcom.com@netcom.com
Subject: new music - From The Caves Of The Iron Mountain
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9707021810.A24323-0100000@netcom2>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I had a wonderful surprise when I arrived home from work today.  The cd
and video from Tony Levin's recording made in the Widow Jane Mine.  I
received a flyer last week from Papa Bear, ordered by phone and got it
today.  In my humble opinion very nice, along the lines of Passion
(Peter Gabriel), and World Diary, Tony's other cd.  Although not
technically looping material for you loopers, it has a distinct Eastern
flavor, which I love, and a certain loopiness in the repetitive percussion
and bass/stick lines.  For you Tappists, the video has some nice closeups
of Tony's technique on the Stick.  I'm not affiliated with Papa Bear or
Tony Levin in any way - just wanted to share.

Tap/Loop On!
Stew Benedict
Teak Chapman Stick #926

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 23:15:16 -0400
From: hporter@UAkron.Edu (Hayden Porter)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: gear schmear, music is best
Message-Id: <v01510102630bdcac99ef@[130.101.6.63]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi all,

This came down the email pipe two weeks ago.

>jeez, we can be the biggest gear geeks on the planet some days!
>
>Somebody pleeeeez start an interesting thread about music...anything! I'd
>do it but i'm too busy and exhausted to think at the moment. anything but
>gear......
>
>kim

I posted the following message to the list when the server was down so I
guess it got stuffed.

After my first round of ramblings about looping/repetition in classical
music I remembered another technique which I thought some of you might find
interesting.

Isorhythm.

This technique was common during the medieval and rennaisance and is also
not uncommon in modern classical music.

Isorhythm occurs when you combine rhythmic patterns and pitch patterns of
different lengths.

For example
Pitch pattern is: A B C (3 events)
Rhythm pattern is: Q(quarter note) E(eighth note) E Q (4 events)

By combining these two patterns you get an interesting rhythmic effect,
similar to polyrhythm.

Since there are 3 events in one Pitch pattern and 4 events in one Rhythm
pattern you will get a macro pattern that equals the least common multiple
(LCM) of both patterns.  In this case you get a 12 event macro pattern
which consists of 3 rhythm patterns and 4 pitch patterns.

Pitch:   A B C| A  B C| A B  C| A B C|
Rhythm:  Q E E  Q| Q E  E Q| Q  E E Q|

This technique does not have to be limited to Pitch and Rhythm.  You can
apply it to any or all of the musical parameters (pitch, rhythm, volume,
timbre, position in space)

This technique is blatant looping, but by combining short looped patterns
of different lengths you get a larger more varied structure.

An example of this can be heard in Olivier Messian's orchestral work
"Turangalila Symphony" (1946-48). Messian creates this massive orchestral
work by combining looped patterns of different lengths in the context of
isorhythm and polyrhythm.  It is almost impossible to pick out the looping
patterns in this work because the patterns are rather long and embeded in a
complex polyphonic texture, but they are there.

I am not sure how one would improvise such a structure or how this relates
to looping on echoplex, jamman and the lot, but it is another example of
how looping and repetition can be used in music.

I would be interested in you thoughts about using this technique.


Later,

Hayden Porter
hporter@uakron.edu

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 01:18:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: JFOG10@aol.com
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: looping=ambient?????
Message-ID: <970703011805_-158863493@emout18.mail.aol.com>

Hi......new list member here....enjoying the discussion. Recently someone( I
deleted the post before I got the name) brought up the excellent point that
many of us seem to assume that looping=ambient/space/new
age/instrumental/...what the heck let's throw jazz in there , too!!!!  LOL
    Well...here's my 2 cents on this issue.
       While I'm a big fan of many "ambient" guys ( Torn, Fripp,Michael
Brook), this isn't really where MY muse lies. I come out of a blues, country,
folk and rock background, mostly.I've owned a Jamman for @ a year now...and
before that spent FAR too much time experimenting with repeat/hold on mere 2
second delays.For years I've felt like I was split in two ( or more)
parts...my "spacey/out" side that loved to loop and mess with textures and my
"rootsy/down to earth" side that stayed idiomatic, bluesy and melodic. So,
the struggle for me in the past year or so has been to somehow join these
seemingly divergent pieces into ONE single voice that is uniquely my own.Good
luck , huh??? My quest began in earnest when I saw Daniel Lanois with Emmylou
Harris doing, in his own way of course, what I'd only begun to consider.My
course was set from that point on..... To be honest, I'd almost considered
giving up on my more "spacey" proclivities, I had begun to think that the
whole thing was just too esoteric.Luckily a couple of situations have shown
me that I'm on the right track......
                My buddy Caryn Lin ( electric Violinist/loopist) asked me to
join her band which is playing around supporting her CD produced and very
much played on by David Torn......also in this band in Bon Lozaga from GONG.
Well , my loop stuff doesn't sound like Bon's loops....and it CERTAINLY
doesn't sound like Torn...so I'm starting to believe it sounds like,well,
me!!!!.....also, my wife Lindsay Gilmour( vocalist) has a wonderful band with
myself and two of the areas top Jazz musicians on bass and vibes..(yup ,
there's that J word , again...but they really DO play jazz, the Bill Evans,
Herbie Hancock, Charlie Haden kind!!! LOL)..Lindsay and I write fairly simple
folky tunes which are then thoroughly messed with by the Jazz guys. Since I'm
NOTa jazz musician by ANY stretch,and just strumming C,F &G chords behind
them doesn't satisfy any of us, looping and laying down textures is a
wonderful option. We recorded an original christmas tune today for a
compilation and the arrangement that the other three came up with was real
nice , but a bit too"Chestnuts Roasting O'er an Open Fire"-ey!!!! So I made a
point of SERIOUSLY stretching it with some "out there" loops...........lo and
behold, goodbye lounge, hello??????...welll something kinda, almost, dare i
say it, ORIGINAL!!!! yeah!!!!
         Any way........i guess this is a (VERY) long winded way of telling
you how looping has helped me outside of the "ambient" music stereotype that
we have.....I'd LOVE to hear from any of you who are trying to travel this
path also......and i look forward to all the talk about this crazy, beautiful
technique that we love...thanks for your time.
                       Take Care,
                                   JIM FOGARTY
            

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 01:06:36 -0700
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Stuff for looping intro
Message-Id: <v03102800afe0f564bddc@[207.171.198.107]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Hi all,
>
>This issue may fit in with the looping intro thread.
>
>I use a loop device that does not have midi sync or tap tempo for setting
>delay time.  I only have knobs.

the hard way, as you've noticed!

>How much delay time would it take to create a 2 bar groove in 7/4 at 100
>beats/minute?
>
>Just the facts 'mam:
>
>14 beats at 100 beats/minute
>100 beats/minute = 1.7 beats/second
>14 * 1.7 = 23.8 seconds
>
>Unfortunately I've got 8 seconds max with my machine.
>
>I would rather not get out the pen, paper and calculator just to get a
>simple groove going.
>
>How do you folks deal with this problem?

music is my way of avoiding things like arithmetic, so I definitely
wouldn't use your approach!

A few things I might do, somewhat echoplex centric:

- midi sync to a sequencer with a 7/4 pattern, which would be very accurate
- tap tempo for the whole two bar length, very helpful to have something
else going as a reference.
- tap 1 bar and multiply it to get 2 or more
- tap 1 bar, insert 1 or more after it
- tap 1 beat, multiply it by 14
- "record-insert" for one beat, it then automatically inserts beats
afterwards, stop at 14. More accurate, assuming you tap the first beat
right.

definitely an instance where I'd prefer buttons over knobs....

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com

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