------------------------------
Loopers-Delight-d Digest				Volume 97 : Issue 103

Today's Topics:
  Re: FS: Boomerang $399                [ Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com> ]
  Re: looping=ambient?????              [ Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com> ]
  Re: Music Descriptions                [ Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.C ]
  Unsettling Ambience -- Driving an au  [ David Kirkdorffer <DKirkdorffer@exa ]
  Re: Music Descriptions                [ matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias  ]
  How to start looping--one man's view  [ "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.c ]
  Durant/La Fosse press                 [ andre <andre@monmouth.com> ]
  Music Descriptions                    [ "Jason N. Joseph" <jj1@compuserve.c ]
  Isorhythm                             [ "Jason N. Joseph" <jj1@compuserve.c ]
  Re: Isorhythm                         [ "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.c ]
  Re: Music Descriptions                [ improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) ]
  Another newbie question.              [ Mattias Ribbing <mattias.ribbing@ma ]
  Vortex                                [ Squidlyguy@aol.com ]
  Re. Unsettling Ambience + Paul Schut  [ /G=Brian/S=Thomson/OU=0/OU=Unknown/ ]
  Isorhythmic Variance                  [ "Stephen P. Goodman" <sgoodman@prim ]

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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 01:25:39 -0700
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: FS: Boomerang $399
Message-Id: <v03102803afe10ee2bb8e@[207.171.198.78]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Dan Howarth wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, james rhodes wrote:
>>
>> > and an Echoplex . he used a Boomerang with 4 meg (about 4.4 minutes i
>>think)
>> > he said he bought it new with the 4 meg upgrade for $630.00 after
>> > shipping...but i dont know what a 1 meg sells for street price...i was
>>
>> isn't this a LOT of memory for only four megs? if you expand the echoplex,
>> i thought you could only get around 100 seconds... could someone clarify
>> the different expansions, simm-type and amount, et al.
>>
>> sounds to me like the boomerang is the deal.
>>
>> **  Dan Howarth <howarth@u.arizona.edu>                       **
>> **  Classics-History-Music.  University of Arizona, Tucson    **
>> **  http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth                         **
>
>
> but what is the sample frequencies or the boomerang?
>echoplex = cd quality , maximum 198 seconds.
>i thought i saw that the `rang had lower sampling rates w/ longer loop
>times....??

Yes, that's the difference. The echoplex sample rate is much higher than
the boomerang's, so it uses more memory for the same amount of loop time.
Sample rate translates directly to audio bandwidth. The echoplex sample
rate is 41.4khz (slightly less than cd, actually). The boomerang is about
15khz, I believe. The echoplex audio bandwidth goes up to about 19 khz,
while the boomerang is around 6-7khz, I think. Whether that matters to you
depends on the type of signals you put through it and how picky you are.
FWIW, the jamman sample rate is about 32khz, probably resulting in a
14-15Khz audio bandwidth. Healthy ears work up to about 20khz.

I'm not sure what kind of memory the boomerang uses, the echoplex uses 30
pin simms. 198 seconds on the plex takes 4 4Mb simms. Those are about
$17-$25 these days. So the full expansion will be less than $100.

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 03:13:17 -0700
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: looping=ambient?????
Message-Id: <v03102804afe112b1a09d@[207.171.198.78]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 1:18 AM -0400 7/3/97, JFOG10@aol.com wrote:
>Hi......new list member here....enjoying the discussion. Recently someone( I
>deleted the post before I got the name) brought up the excellent point that
>many of us seem to assume that looping=ambient/space/new
>age/instrumental/...what the heck let's throw jazz in there , too!!!!  LOL

that was me, glad to see someone joining me in my crusade against the local
ambient tyranny....:-)

>    Well...here's my 2 cents on this issue.
>       While I'm a big fan of many "ambient" guys ( Torn, Fripp,Michael
>Brook), this isn't really where MY muse lies. I come out of a blues, country,
>folk and rock background,

I have a different background, but I agree in the lack of ambient muse
category. The only Eno I've ever gotten around to listening to is his
production work on Bowie's Outside album. (a friend of mine calls Eno
"music for yawning")  As for Fripp, I've spent almost as much time talking
to him as I have listening to his music, oddly....

A lot of loopists come from a folk background. Acoustic guitar soloists
seem to make up a strong minority. One person can get a fuller sound and
create more complex parts. Phil Keaggy is one example, I think, but there
are many others.

And don't forget Chet Atkins! And our own Pat Kirtley. Bluegrass players
take to looping quite quickly, it seems. I spent a couple of hours at a
namm show demoing the echoplex for a couple of bluegrass players, who were
sons of a really famous old country star. Can't remember which one,
unfortunately...they were great players, and within minutes were looping
all sorts of bluegrass phrases and overdubbing stuff on top. Worked
great..... I even spent a good half hour with a couple of nice ladies who
sang in a country group, explaining how they could loop their vocals for
harmonies and such.....

Jazz, Blues, sure! especially if you are playing a rhythm instrument. You
go to play a solo, and your piece of the rhythm disappears. Why not loop
it? Simple application, but works great. If you're in the Bay Area, try to
see Fred Marshall's jazz group play sometime. The bass keeps groovin, and
Fred's off with the bow....  I see people do that sort of thing quite a
bit. Great way to practice too. Also in the jazz vein, there's Tim
Weisberg, who's been looping his flute for a couple decades now.....

Can rockers be loopers? Well, there's Neal Schon, who used loops all over
the last Journey album. I believe its gone platinum...(you laugh, but if
you saw his gear collection and studio, you wouldn't! He gets to do
anything he likes these days, including a current foray into techno. I'd
trade....)

And then we get more into my neck of the woods.....

I spent a LOT of time in my life listening to heavy metal. Metallica, ozzy,
maiden, slayer, exodus, death angel, pantera... the heavier the better!
Know what? I still like it! I have no shame, music that's aggressive and
powerful makes me happy. Music to be injured by! I broke my foot moshing
with primus, and I was darned proud! So what does that have to do with
looping? Listen to speed metal sometime if you can. Fast, tight rhythms,
long, structured songs, lots and lots of repetition. The amazing thing was
that it took so long for someone to make the connection. But someone did,
and that was:

Al Jourgensen. Ministry's "The Mind is a Terrible Thing to Taste" is the
definitive industrial album for me. The loops on it are great. In one
instant, Al caused metal guitarists and alienated synth geeks all over the
world to look at each other and say "maybe you're not the neanderthal/wimp
that I thought you were, would you like to jam?" Guitarists bought
samplers, synthesists bought guitars and fuzz boxes. Thousands of
industrial bands spread across the lands....kmfdm, skinny puppy, nine inch
nails... that was my intro to looping....

But what was that stuff the guys down the hall in my college dorm were
playing? Don't believe the Hype? I hate rap, why can't I get that tune out
of my head? For good reason....

Hip-hop is almost completely based on looping. Grandmaster Flash, Run-DMC,
Public Enemy, the beastie boys, Dr. Dre, dj shadow.....loops everywhere.
Styles and techniques for creating looped music were pioneered by dj's in
the 70's and have spread to all manner of genres all around the globe. The
single largest goosebump experience I have ever experienced was PE's Fear
of a Black Planet....the rhythmic textures are stunning. If you've never
listened to it, you owe it to yourself to try...

Those early hip-hop artists were a big influence on the current candidate
for Next Big Thing: Electronica.

I admit it. I'm on the bandwagon and I don't care. I like this loop happy
electronic stuff a lot. Techno, house, ambient-techno, drum n' bass,
trance, trip-hop; there's a new one every week. The Orb blew my mind, both
on cd and live. Meat Beat Manifesto, dj spooky, fsol, aphex twin, I'm
there....

What else? Why are most of my loops created with funk rhythms? How about
Dub? What's Matthias teaching to the Brazilians? What's happening in
Africa? It's turning up all over the place......

looping=ambient? Not for me!


kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: 03 Jul 97 07:53:26 EDT
From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM>
To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Music Descriptions
Message-ID: <970703115325_74074.1316_GHP72-2@CompuServe.COM>

Andre writes:

>_Guitar_ and _Guitar Shop_ both seem to be good outlets for coverage of
>more "out there" music; Pete Prown in particular, who writes for the
>former and edits the latter, is an avowed prog-rock/experimental fan, and
>devotes a substantial amount of print space to more off-beat, unusual
>releases.  

Funnily enough, Pete Prown has a review of Silent Extinction coming in the next
issue of Guitar Shop. We've kicked around a concept for an article on "finding
your own voice" though he thinks it may be better received in Guitar than Guitar
Shop. It turns out that his readers get  a little put off by columns that
espouse mental activities: what they want are "put this knowb at 11, and that
knob at 7 and you'll sound just like Nigel" articles.

>p.s. - with the deluge of guitarists releasing techno/dance albums these
>days, I can't help but think how far ahead of the zeitgiest Torn was when
>he dabbled so successfully with electronic music on last year's _What
>Means Solid, Traveller?_.  I suspect it'll still sound fresh when most of
>the rest of the current crop of electronic music reeks of late-'90s dance
>crossover.  Too bad CMP didn't know what to do with it! 

'Tis true: the man has always been way ahead of his time. But it wasn't just
that CMP didn't know what to do with it. It was more what they *couldn't* do
that was at issue. Sometimes a record company can have the best of plans, and
they still get squashed by an industry that isn't ready to accept change. And
many times they don't have the resources to do what's necessary--especially if
they can't see the return coming any time soon. And, of course, there's always
the combination of all the elements that conspire against independents that end
up making it nearly impossible to be "successful" in this biz without being a
partner of one of the biggies. 

But that's no reason not to try!
Jon Durant

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 09:46:07 -0400
From: David Kirkdorffer <DKirkdorffer@exapps.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Unsettling Ambience -- Driving an audience nuts with niceness.
Message-ID: <30C4F9E5EBE1D0118B760000C0DD100F090E61@mail.exapps.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

	WT Hartnett writes:

	Some people are driven nuts by "waiting for 
	the real music to start", and can't listen to ambient stuff
without 
	drums, fixed chord changes, etc.


I know what you mean.  

I have a friend who once said he keeps waiting for "an event" in ambient
music.  I think one of the challenges ambient music poses to newbie
listeners is "how to listen" to something that is not fitting into a
known format.  I believe it's the same challenge classical, jazz and
folk music may pose to a typical top-40 trained ear.

So, ironically even the most soothing ambient music can have an
unsettling effect on an "uninitiated" audience.

David

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	T.W. Hartnett [SMTP:hartnett.t@apple.com]
> Sent:	Wednesday, July 02, 1997 7:37 AM
> To:	Looper's Delight
> Subject:	Re: Music Descriptions
> 
> >> In any case, I am still faced with a problem when I try to get
> gigs. I
> >> usually play at bookstores/art shows/galleries..and while booking
> the
> >> gig, I'm faced with "What kind of music do you play" by the booking
> >> agent for the venue.
> >
> >Actually, if you look them in the eye, and say "Ambient", then when
> they
> >ask, say something short and simple as with "You know about 'Techno'
> or
> >electronic?"  [pause]  "It's like that, but softer.  You can eat to
> it."
> >
> >Restaurateurs, I suspect, would mostly hear the last sentence,
> n'est-ce
> >pas?  And it's true, too.
> >
> >I wonder if there's an ambient version of Louie Louie in our future? 
> >[shudder]  What if the club owner who demands it turns out to be the
> kind
> >of shmoe who thinks Jean Michel Jarre are three French guys? [g]  But
> I
> >digress...  
> 
> I've had mostly good results trying to be background ambience while 
> people eat, but there are some people who react quite violently to
> what 
> they regard as "droney noise", and this is in reaction to some really 
> unobstrusive sound carpets.  Some people are driven nuts by "waiting
> for 
> the real music to start", and can't listen to ambient stuff without 
> drums, fixed chord changes, etc.
> 
> Travis Hartnett

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 11:08:12 -0300
From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Cc: Nai@netflash.com.br (Nai)
Subject: Re: Music Descriptions
Message-Id: <v01520d09afe153a380a6@[200.254.32.147]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Funny, after I play there, the next time I return (with my guitar synths
>and e-bows),
>I'm listed in the Newspaper under 'folk'.
>
>Again, what do these people hear?

I do not thinks its too bad. My music walkes toards the traditional music,
because the old archetypes of melodies is what we like and enhance the
ambience. And I have better contact to musicians playing traditional that
those playing jazz, for example.
Still, its very far from popular music in some respect :-)

Matthias

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 97 10:07:58 -0000
From: "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.com>
To: "Looper's Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: How to start looping--one man's view
Message-Id: <199707031506.IAA29036@scv4.apple.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

What do I need to start looping?

Three things:
¥ Something to make sound (usually a musical instrument, often a guitar or keyboard)
¥ Something to repeat the sounds you've made (a delay line, usually digital)
¥ Something to amplify/reproduce the horrible sounds that result (an amp, PA, speaker cabinets, headphones)

A practical example of one of the simplest looping rigs would be an electric guitar, plugged into digital delay, at least 2000ms worth, and a guitar amp.  Say, a Stratocaster plugged into

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 11:07:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: andre <andre@monmouth.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Durant/La Fosse press
Message-Id: <199707031507.LAA20269@shell.monmouth.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Andre (West) said...."...when I thought, "Say, Jon Durant said his new disc
was reviewed in the SRV issue of _Guitar_ magazine."  Sure enough, there it
was.  A very positive review, as well -- congratulations, Jon!  And it's
good to see that the Alchemy roster is being picked up for in-store
distribution..

yes, Jon, congrats !! lets spread the word... AND - also a hearty congrats
to Andre' LaFosse- he is listed as being in the very prestigious fourth &
final round of the musician best unsigned band competition-- 

yeah !!! win this one, me namesake looping brother !!! let's shake up the
oligarchy with some REALLY new music..! Congrats & good luck, buena suerte!

I also think this prodigy-driven music "re-revolution" is great 'cos it'll
get some new ears attuned to electronic, loopy otherworldly type sounds.
THis "guitar is dead" nonsense is laughable, though !

another great, recently overlooked CD was Todd Rundgren's (TR-I) "No World
Order" - it's a great, sorta dance -oriented, beat-heavy "electronica?"
affair with tons of great guitar solos and biting social/personal/political
commentary. Sure, at times the occassional rap-vocals don't quite work, but
it's interesting to hear this hybrid of stuff in 1990, by a pretty well
known artist, yet this release was panned and ignored by the same critics
who'll now get out the kneepads for the prodigy-orb chemical tricky brothers.

keep looping and writing, all!

andre east coast

ps - nj area loopers pls e-mail me directly - live
looping/samples/percussion next week at the brighton bar in longbranch/nj
9:45 pm "Jfk's Lsd-Ufo" is my duo. e-mail me !!
>

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 11:35:41 -0400
From: "Jason N. Joseph" <jj1@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Music Descriptions
Message-ID: <199707031135_MC2-19C1-CB68@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Disposition: inline

I must say that all this talk of how we categorize (or at
least describe) our music has really struck a nerve for me.
I hear a lot of you saying that this has been a point of
irritation; I'm to the point where it is not merely annoying,
but fairly angst-ridden.

I identified somewhat with the "newage" moniker when
it was fairly new and, like any new genre, I suppose,
was at least in some ways "pushing the boundaries".
There was some serious experimenting going on. We
all know what kind of watered-down "inoffensive
background noise" it turned into. Now I listen to my 
first CD (released in '92) and it absolutely *sickens*
me to hear "newagey" elements in it, and to think that
it has been categorized as such. And while the music
that I've written since then has certainly evolved and
changed, my fear is that it will still be heard as "pleasant
background noise".

Thus I think the question "What do they hear?" is a 
bloody brilliant and relevant one to be asking. I'm
becoming more and more aware that at least for me,
there seems to be a widening discrepancy in how I
experience the music I write when I write and perform
it, and what is heard by the audience. I experience it
as deeply emotional, complex, and "boundary-pushing";
a comment I get a lot is "that was really nice... relaxing".
Naturally this whole issue sends me into a tailspin of
despair.

Is this inevitable? Is it our mere choice of asthetic? I
remember the revelation of listening to German "noise
band" P16.D4 who use *exactly* the same composing
processes as Brian Eno ... but instead of Eno's choice
of swirly synthy sounds, they use things like found 
environmental noise, car crashes, weird unidentifiable
sounds, etc. Thus they're experienced as much more
"experimental" and "boundary-pushing" when the only
real difference is choice of sounds.

I've always played what I consider a variety of styles,
but this whole issue of being categorized as "newage"
has been subtly working at me over the last few years,
and I find myself introducing more and more aggressive
elements into my music ... wanting to "toy" with the
audiences' relationship to the music (i.e. attention level,
etc.) rather than having the music of such a type that it
allows the listener to define that relationship for themselves.
However I'm afraid this will lead me down the path of most
pop or rock music (which I tend to dislike for the same
reasons I dislike new age), which is extremely limited in
the kind of relationship it demands from its audience.

I know I'm rambling here, but I've always been addicted
to the cerebral bits of how and why we do what we do. I
could ramble indefinitely about how we conceptualize
the relationship between performer, music, and audience,
and various ways we as experimental musicians wish to
manipulate that relationship. I'd love to know what the rest 
of you think about this, and if there's really any hope
regarding how we're labeled and the asthetic we choose.

Thanks fer listenin'
Jason N. Joseph
Comfortably Obscured Productions
jj1@compuserve.com
I

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 11:48:33 -0400
From: "Jason N. Joseph" <jj1@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Isorhythm
Message-ID: <199707031148_MC2-19C1-CC82@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Disposition: inline

>
>Pitch:   A B C| A  B C| A B  C| A B C|
>Rhythm:  Q E E  Q| Q E  E Q| Q  E E Q|
>
>I am not sure how one would improvise such a structure or how this relates
>to looping on echoplex, jamman and the lot, but it is another example of
>how looping and repetition can be used in music.

This sounds EXACTLY like what Eno & Fripp's early looping experiments
were after. In fact, like damn near everything Eno has done since. Doing
it live / improvising tho ... Difficult question. I have merely a Jamman,
and
the current software doesn't allow it to have multiple loops of different
lengths. Looking forward to the new updates!!

thanx,
jj
jj1@compuserve.com

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 97 11:00:11 -0000
From: "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.com>
To: "Looper's Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Isorhythm
Message-Id: <199707031556.IAA15242@scv2.apple.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

>>Pitch:   A B C| A  B C| A B  C| A B C|
>>Rhythm:  Q E E  Q| Q E  E Q| Q  E E Q|
>>
>>I am not sure how one would improvise such a structure or how this relates
>>to looping on echoplex, jamman and the lot, but it is another example of
>>how looping and repetition can be used in music.
>
>This sounds EXACTLY like what Eno & Fripp's early looping experiments
>were after. In fact, like damn near everything Eno has done since. Doing
>it live / improvising tho ... Difficult question. I have merely a Jamman,
>and
>the current software doesn't allow it to have multiple loops of different
>lengths. Looking forward to the new updates!!
>
>thanx,
>jj
>jj1@compuserve.com

Having loops of different lengths was one of the Great Leaps Forward in 
my musical and looping experience.  I had an Echoplex, and then I dug out 
my old Digitech 3.7sec delay and put that in the rack.  I could then set 
up a longer loop on the Echoplex, and then build something in the 3.7, 
sometimes locked in, most often not, and let those two loops percolate 
over time.  You can't really sync the two, and although that would be 
nice (and is driving the current direction of expansion in my looping 
rig), there's a lot of territory you can cover with two odd-length, 
non-sync'ed loops.  I'd recommend that everyone have at least two delay 
lines in their setup.  The DOD FX90 or Zoom 508 will give you 4 seconds 
of delay for under $150.

Travis

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 09:50:50 -0800
From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Music Descriptions
Message-Id: <v01510100afe187a62906@[128.193.5.25]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Dave writes:
>
>>I help out at a local CD store, Happy Trails Records, Corvallis' only hip
>>record store. I worked there for years, and now I help keeping the jazz,
>>ethnic, and electronic sections stocked with cool stuff. Anyway, I was
>>there the other day going through the new releases bulletin from Valley
>>Music, our main distributor. Evidently, they just picked up Jon Durant's
>>Alchemy Label, as I noticed most of their titles were lested as new
>>releases. What was interesting was how they were categorized: Gary Willis
>>was in jazz, Caryn Lin and Brian Gingrich in New Age, and Robby Aceto in
>>Rock/Pop. Just thought this was interesting...
>
>Interesting, and fairly logical, given what we all do. I assume that the
>Krantz/Stern CD was also listed in Jazz, and my CD was in New Age?
>
If I remember right, your disc was in Rock/Pop also. Anyway, I ordered
copies of all of them. Let's see if I still work there after this...

________________________________________________________
Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org  : www.peak.org/~improv/

"...there will come a day when you won't have to use
gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in
your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper
type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em
together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em
together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire."
                                            -Sun Ra
________________________________________________________

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 18:51:30 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Mattias Ribbing <mattias.ribbing@mailbox.swipnet.se>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Another newbie question.
Message-Id: <199707031651.SAA26728@mailbox.swip.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Is there a computer program that allows looping with either midi or audio?
In that case, is there a shareware verion of it?

Mattias Ribbing

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 15:28:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Squidlyguy@aol.com
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Vortex 
Message-ID: <970703152843_274705661@emout09.mail.aol.com>

Do you still have the Vortex?  If so, does it have the foot controller? (and
does that have an expression pedal on it?)

Brian  - <squidlyguy@aol.com>

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Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 15:26:06 +0100
From: /G=Brian/S=Thomson/OU=0/OU=Unknown/@prudential.co.uk
To: "        -         (052)Loopers-Delight(a)annihilist.com" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re. Unsettling Ambience + Paul Schutze + Ensoniq ASR-X
Message-Id: <0014400002017585000002*@MHS>

Hi There...

David wrote:

"... I think one of the challenges ambient music poses to newbie
listeners is "how to listen" to something that is not fitting into a
known format.  I believe it's the same challenge classical, jazz and
folk music may pose to a typical top-40 trained ear."

I have to agree with that - I had an experience with a friend who was staying
over one night. I put on a piece I did that involved re-recording, at a higher
tape record speed, a piece on guitar on an answering-machine cassette in a
four-track, mixed through an octave divider, reverb, and Bob knows what else.
The result was a bit grainy and stomach-twisting when listened to, but he went
to sleep to it when he stopped listening...

Then there's Robert Fripp's experiences at the Queen Elizabeth Hall on the
South Bank here in London - not the hall itself, but the foyer! I was there,
and Robert described it pretty accurately in the liner notes to his November
Suite (*****): some people sat on chairs roughly facing the guitar, drinking
beer and espresso, talking, reading, sleeping, babies crying, along with
performers and public wandering into and out of the hall. (There was some dance
performance on there that the audience in chairs on the stage and the
performers dancing along the aisles..!)

So, we see what you mean..!

Is anybody here familiar with the work of Paul Schutze*? I have his double CD
"Apart" (AMBT6), released on the Virgin Ambient label like their compilations.
He's definitley using some form of looping there, but I can't honestly say
whether it's looping in the audio domain or loop-on-record mode on a sequencer
linked to a sampler. Does anybody have any more detail that can't be found on
the web? I'm fast becoming a fan - "Apart" reminds me of the best bits of
"FFWD" (The Orb + Fripp), with echoes of Sylvian & Czukay, or a bit like Mr.
Torn at half-speed!

Lastly,, have any of you seen the Ensoniq ASR-X? Seens to be similar in concept
to teh Aki Remix16 mentioned here recently, but might be more "musical". 20-bit
A/D! Or their DP/Pro, which does have "tap" buttons and a "Loop Recorder"
setting like the Lexicon MPX-1, but under three seconds memory in stereo mode?

Reading you guys gives me an attack of GAS - that's Gear Avarice Syndrome for
the unwary!

Cheers,

Brian Thomson, London UK
bnt@ibm.net


*  yes, I know about the umlaut! Don't trust the character sets...
***** Five Stars. Stunning!


Hi There...

(oops! hit that loop fade switch!)

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Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 14:20:55 -0700
From: "Stephen P. Goodman" <sgoodman@primenet.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Isorhythmic Variance
Message-Id: <199707032122.OAA18180@usr07.primenet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In the last one, Travis said:

> Having loops of different lengths was one of the Great Leaps Forward in 
> my musical and looping experience.  

I concur!  I did it by using an old method applied to new tech: Whereas my
digital loop is maximum 7.6 seconds, a sound file engineered to be looped
in addition to the 7.6 loop can be ANY length, within obvious limitations
like disk space.  It's led to some interesting experiments, though I can't
repeat them on the fly as one might with a rack setup.

>You can't really sync the two, and although that would be 
> nice (and is driving the current direction of expansion in my looping 
> rig), there's a lot of territory you can cover with two odd-length, 
> non-sync'ed loops.

Again I have to agree - and, while synching is next-to-impossible on this,
given my 7.6 delay's tendency to decrease its pitch over a long period of
time (a tone lowered 3 steps in about 24 hours in a recent experiment,
infanticible in many respects, but still as a result non-syncable), I'm
forced to just Deal With It.  The result is a quasi-organic pair of
signals, which, when played on top of, gives a nice, deep texture without
overdubs.

Eno said once I think that "the essence of creativity is the process of
working with mistakes", paraphrased.  In this regard it applies well here. 
I wouldn't have worked with the non-synching setup this way otherwise.

* Stephen Goodman            It's the Loop Of The Week!  And it's free!
* EarthLight Productions      http://www.primenet.com/~sgoodman/Studios

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