------------------------------
Loopers-Delight-d Digest				Volume 97 : Issue 104

Today's Topics:
  Re: Another newbie question.          [ "Stephen P. Goodman" <sgoodman@prim ]
  Re: Isorhythmic Variance              [ "Matt McCabe" <mattm@bi-tech.com> ]
  What do they hear???                  [ future perfect <artmusic@gte.net> ]
  Re: FS: Boomerang $399                [ "Mikell D. Nelson" <mnelson@dmans.c ]
  Re: FS: Boomerang $399                [ "Mikell D. Nelson" <mnelson@dmans.c ]
  Re: Stuff for looping intro           [ "Mikell D. Nelson" <mnelson@dmans.c ]
  Re: Vortex                            [ Roland Eberle <roland@ccnet.com> ]
  Re: looping=ambient?????              [ "Mikell D. Nelson" <mnelson@dmans.c ]
  Re: FS: Boomerang $399                [ "Mikell D. Nelson" <mnelson@dmans.c ]
  GR Electronics                        [ efisch@artnet.net (Eric R. Fischer) ]
  Re: FS: Boomerang $399                [ matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias  ]
  Re: FS: Boomerang $399                [ Kim Corbet <kcorbet@post.cis.smu.ed ]
  Re: FS: Boomerang $399                [ Dan Howarth <howarth@U.Arizona.EDU> ]
  Jamman loop border q's                [ Henry Throop <throop@bogart.Colorad ]
  Re: Music Descriptions                [ BlkSwan03@aol.com ]
  Re: What do they hear???              [ "Stephen P. Goodman" <sgoodman@prim ]
  "top-40 trained ear"                  [ fred marshall <fred@fredmarshall.co ]
  Re: Jamman loop border q's            [ "Bruce Gerow" <bgerow@ny.tds.net> ]
  Vortex                                [ "Bruce Gerow" <bgerow@ny.tds.net> ]
  Re: What do they hear???              [ pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hu ]
  Re: What do they hear???              [ pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hu ]
  Re: What do they hear???              [ David.Orton@mail.bl.uk (David Orton ]
  Re: Some questions for an intro page  [ pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hu ]
  Unsettling Ambiences                  [ PMimlitsch@aol.com ]

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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 14:24:22 -0700
From: "Stephen P. Goodman" <sgoodman@primenet.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Another newbie question.
Message-Id: <199707032125.OAA18317@usr07.primenet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi Mattias,

You asked:

> Is there a computer program that allows looping with either midi or
audio?
> In that case, is there a shareware verion of it?

To the first, Yes, and it's not the Media Player.  If you have a Sound
Blaster card, you've already got the package, which is called anything from
Creative Ensemble to Wave Studio, depending on the version you've got.

Outside of that, go to http://www.syntrillium.com and get CoolEdit - it
does a good job of real looping (and it's the package I use to record my
work!)

* Stephen Goodman            It's the Loop Of The Week!  And it's free!
* EarthLight Productions      http://www.primenet.com/~sgoodman/Studios

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 14:45:24 -0700
From: "Matt McCabe" <mattm@bi-tech.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Isorhythmic Variance
Message-Id: <199707032143.OAA17272@gw1.bi-tech.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> From: Stephen P. Goodman <sgoodman@primenet.com>

> Eno said once I think that "the essence of creativity is the process of
> working with mistakes", paraphrased.  In this regard it applies well
here. 

Well said!  Lately I've been working on the audio for a CD-ROM and I'm
noticing that my best ideas come about from mistakes -- at least when
programming drum tracks.  A humbling realization indeed......unless you
decide to embrace the concept and run with it.  As a result of doing just
that, my songwriting partner and I have been priding ourselves in our
ability to "compose by haphazard."

Matt

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 18:07:40 -0400
From: future perfect <artmusic@gte.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: What do they hear???
Message-ID: <33BC22AC.D000AA4A@gte.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Loopers,
I'm interested to know what non-musicians/non-loopers compare your music
to? Often, especially non-musicians, have no point of reference
to compare looped and/or ambient music to. At gigs, I often have people
come up and say, 'Wow! That sounds a little like Enya' (I forgive them,
'cause they're not exposed to ambient music much..) or even 'It sounds
like modern rennaissance music'..I even heard.."it sounds like folk
opera' (?!?). In any case, it really doesn't matter what we call it-
I'm sure Fripp hates the term 'progressive rock', but thats what Crimson
is called by the press and general public. Its interesting to get
feedback from non-musicians/non-loopers. What has your music been
called?

-- 
********************************************************************* 
'Future Perfect' - progressive art music - visit our website at:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/8082 
'If you don't know where you're going, 
you'll probably get there.' - Robert Fripp

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 19:05:28 -0500
From: "Mikell D. Nelson" <mnelson@dmans.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: FS: Boomerang $399
Message-ID: <33BC3E48.699B@dmans.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dan Howarth wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, james rhodes wrote:
> 
> > and an Echoplex . he used a Boomerang with 4 meg (about 4.4 minutes i think)
> > he said he bought it new with the 4 meg upgrade for $630.00 after
> > shipping...but i dont know what a 1 meg sells for street price...i was
> 
> isn't this a LOT of memory for only four megs? if you expand the echoplex,
> i thought you could only get around 100 seconds... could someone clarify
> the different expansions, simm-type and amount, et al.
> 
> sounds to me like the boomerang is the deal.

  The above price was actually $629 and was our original 4M (2 min./4
min.) MSRP (manufacturers suggested retail price). In the early going we
sold a lot directly to customers, and had to sell at the MSRP to avoid
angering our dealers. The MSRP is now $599, and stores sell the unit for
$499 or slightly less. Also, if you are not near a Boomerang dealer, you
can mail order from Music Center in Kenosha, WI at 414-697-9393. Ask for
Rob or Tom.

Motley a.k.a. Mike Nelson, co-owner Boomerang Musical Products

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 19:14:18 -0500
From: "Mikell D. Nelson" <mnelson@dmans.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: FS: Boomerang $399
Message-ID: <33BC405A.3F1A@dmans.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Rick Canton wrote:
>  but what is the sample frequencies or the boomerang?
> echoplex = cd quality , maximum 198 seconds.
> i thought i saw that the `rang had lower sampling rates w/ longer loop
> times....??

  Yes, the sample rate is lower on the Boomerang Phrase Sampler. The
'Rang samples at either 16K or 8K; certainly less than CD quality but
more than enough for electric guitar which barely produces 6-7K through
a good quality tube amp. The Rang also sounds great with bass; Victor
Wooten uses one. And I find mine acceptable with my GR50 guitar synth,
though I will not tell you that it's pristine CD quality. We have sold
over 700 Rangs so far and have had about 5 complaints about sound. I
guess it depends on your application as to whether you'll find it to
your liking. The 6 string bass player in my band uses a Rang on 60% of
our tunes, and he loves it.

Motley a.k.a. Mike Nelson, co-owner Boomerang Musical Products

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 19:25:41 -0500
From: "Mikell D. Nelson" <mnelson@dmans.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Stuff for looping intro
Message-ID: <33BC4305.534E@dmans.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hayden Porter wrote:
> I use a loop device that does not have midi sync or tap tempo for setting
> delay time.  I only have knobs.
> 
> When I first started looping, I often had problems with getting the
> delay(record) time to match up with the tempo (beats/minute) and
> meter(number of beats/measure) of my musical ideas.  I would often spend
> alot of time tweaking knobs and changing my idea until the machine and my
> idea agreed.  Then of course I would come up with another and go through
> the process again. :-(
> 
> I am sure there is a process or formulae for solving this problem, but I
> havent come up with a satisfactory solution yet (I am still compromising my
> musical ideas to fit the machine).
> 
> How much delay time would it take to create a 2 bar groove in 7/4 at 100
> beats/minute?
> 
> 14 beats at 100 beats/minute
> 100 beats/minute = 1.7 beats/second
> 14 * 1.7 = 23.8 seconds
> 
> Unfortunately I've got 8 seconds max with my machine.
> 
> I would rather not get out the pen, paper and calculator just to get a
> simple groove going.
> 
Simple - buy a unit that has tap tempo, e.g. Boomerang Phrase Sampler or
Echoplex.
Motley

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 17:17:21 -0700
From: Roland Eberle <roland@ccnet.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Vortex
Message-ID: <33BC4111.5F7556DE@ccnet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

Squidlyguy@aol.com wrote:

> Do you still have the Vortex?  If so, does it have the foot
> controller? (and
> does that have an expression pedal on it?)
>
> Brian  - <squidlyguy@aol.com>

long gone...standard equip from factory = power supply, manual, 1 (2
button)footswitch.happy hunting...they are getting both rare and
expensive.

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 19:43:29 -0500
From: "Mikell D. Nelson" <mnelson@dmans.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: looping=ambient?????
Message-ID: <33BC4731.3900@dmans.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

JFOG10@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Hi......new list member here....enjoying the discussion. Recently someone( I
> deleted the post before I got the name) brought up the excellent point that
> many of us seem to assume that looping=ambient/space/new
> age/instrumental/...what the heck let's throw jazz in there , too!!!!  LOL

Jim,
  I agree with your comment that looping = ambient in the minds of many,
but I also have other influences that are stronger and more important to
me. My current short instrumental set consists of four original tunes:
1) pop/rock, 2) classical feeling piece with finger picking, 3) shuffle
with a jazzy feel, and finally 4) a very heavy thing with saturated
tones that dissolves into noise before fading out.
  Another slice of non-ambient looping is the band I play with, the
Rotten Rubber Band. We play all original swampy, river blues; very
groove oriented. There's a trash percussionist, 6 string bassist who
sings & plays harmonica, and guitar. That's the core, but usually
someone else is present: another guitarist, a psycho trombone player who
frequents this group, random percussion and juggling personel.
  None of the above music could be described as ambient or jazz, it's
way to structured; though there is plenty of room to express yourself
and have fun. I'd be interested in hearing from other non-ambient loop
meisters.

Motley

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 19:50:05 -0500
From: "Mikell D. Nelson" <mnelson@dmans.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: FS: Boomerang $399
Message-ID: <33BC48BD.443A@dmans.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Kim Flint wrote:
> Yes, that's the difference. The echoplex sample rate is much higher than
> the boomerang's, so it uses more memory for the same amount of loop time.
> Sample rate translates directly to audio bandwidth. The echoplex sample
> rate is 41.4khz (slightly less than cd, actually). The boomerang is about
> 15khz, I believe. The echoplex audio bandwidth goes up to about 19 khz,
> while the boomerang is around 6-7khz, I think.

  The Boomerang Phrase Sampler has two sample rates: 16K and 8K. On the
higher rate, the audio bandwidth is almost 8K.
  By the way the slower rate is for slowing down recorded material you
want to learn OR creating bass parts OR making a  r e a l l y   l o n g 
loop.

Motley

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 18:59:51 -0800
From: efisch@artnet.net (Eric R. Fischer)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: GR Electronics
Message-Id: <v01520d00afe216296e4b@[207.155.25.36]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

For all you Roland GR300 & 700 fans & users, I stumbled upon a repair shop
here in LA that has a stash of & can get more of BRAND NEW in the box GR
series setups for guitars (pickups & electronics). They have done tons of
installs & are doing one right now on my Steinberger GM4T as we speak! I
won't bore the group with details so Email me if you want to know more.
Eric (It's July 3rd so I'm getting looped) Fischer
efisch@artnet.net

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 01:16:43 -0300
From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: FS: Boomerang $399
Message-Id: <v01520d13afe170433a75@[200.254.32.147]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>> and an Echoplex . he used a Boomerang with 4 meg (about 4.4 minutes i think)
>> he said he bought it new with the 4 meg upgrade for $630.00 after
>> shipping...but i dont know what a 1 meg sells for street price...i was
>
>isn't this a LOT of memory for only four megs? if you expand the echoplex,
>i thought you could only get around 100 seconds... could someone clarify
>the different expansions, simm-type and amount, et al.
>
>sounds to me like the boomerang is the deal.

Selecting a loop unit by its memory time is almost like selecting a multi
effect by its number of presets.

Matthias

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 23:39:14 -0500 (CDT)
From: Kim Corbet <kcorbet@post.cis.smu.edu>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: FS: Boomerang $399
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9707032341.F21719-0100000@post.cis.smu.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> >sounds to me like the boomerang is the deal.
> 
> Selecting a loop unit by its memory time is almost like selecting a multi
> effect by its number of presets.

......from each looping device according to its abilities, to each 
looping artist according to his or her needs.

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 22:09:28 -0700 (MST)
From: Dan Howarth <howarth@U.Arizona.EDU>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: FS: Boomerang $399
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.96.970703220558.88032C-100000@aruba.u.arizona.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> Selecting a loop unit by its memory time is almost like selecting a multi
> effect by its number of presets.
> 

almost but not quite... i'm quite sure that we all have different opinions
of equipment, et al. - it all depends on what you're looking for from a
particular unit. no need to be hasty.

**  Dan Howarth <howarth@u.arizona.edu>                       **
**  Classics-History-Music.  University of Arizona, Tucson    **
**  http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth 		              **

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 00:45:39 -0600 (MDT)
From: Henry Throop <throop@bogart.Colorado.EDU>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Jamman loop border q's
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95.970704004343.14335A-100000@bogart.Colorado.EDU>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Hello,

I've got two jamman questions:

a) I've almost always get audible 'blurts' at the beginning of my
loops.  This effect is not just a mismatch at the loop-point, but an
actual volume-increase for the first 1/4 sec or so of the loop.  It
makes creating pads on the unit pretty difficult.  I've found that I
can work around this to loop a sustained chord, but it's awkward:

  o first tap the loop length, with no input signal
  o then use the phrased-loop mode to record exactly one cycle of signal
 
Apparently, whatever causes the blurt puts it there only while
recording the original loop, but not while overdubbing.  Has anyone
else experienced this?

b) Another loop-boundary problem I've had is this

  o set up a loop in phrased-loop mode
  o use replace to replace the entire loop with silence

When I do this, the entire loop's not replaced, but there's a short
snippet (100 ms?) of it left in at the boundary.  If I replace the
entire loop again, the snippet gets shorter, but it takes several
replacements before the original loop's really out of there.  Anyone
else?

By way of introduction, I play cello, originally from a classical
background, right now going through an atmospherics & wierd noises
phase.  During college, I'd often get together with guitarists or other
cellists, turn the lights out, and enter into hour-long free-form
improvisations.  This is what I'm itching to do more of -- anyone else
on the list in Boulder / Denver area?

-henry
throop@colorado.edu

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 04:46:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: BlkSwan03@aol.com
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Music Descriptions
Message-ID: <970704044637_1244102184@emout02.mail.aol.com>

In a message dated 7/3/97 9:41:49 PM, you wrote:

<<Sometimes a record company can have the best of plans, and
they still get squashed by an industry that isn't ready to accept change. And
many times they don't have the resources to do what's necessary--especially
if
they can't see the return coming any time soon. And, of course, there's
always
the combination of all the elements that conspire against independents that
end
up making it nearly impossible to be "successful" in this biz without being a
partner of one of the biggies. 
>>

The main problem really is anything getting heard at all.  For the most part,
you can forget radio stations.  Their main purpose is supplying bodies to
advertisers.  There are  a few record stores that allow listening but it's
always a pain.  It's too bad really.  So little imagination goes into this.
  Most places blast horrid music and then expect you to be able to actually
hear something in the headphones.   Here in Portland, Oregon, there is a shop
called Ozone.  It has an amazing selection of unusual music from all over.
 Stuff you rarely see anywhere else.  But there is just one CD player (there
are some preloaded listening stations as well) and that is under a speaker
 that is always blasting away.  I've tried to listen to stuff there but I
always end up frustrated and leave.  I'd buy a lot of recordings there  and
other places if they would create some kind of isolated listening station.
  CD's and records aren't cheap.   To be able to hear a few things off a
recording before plunking down the bucks seems essential.  It's the best way
to check things out that you will never hear on the radio or read about.
  Some enterprising character out there should start a string of shops that
take a more interesting approach to the customer interface. Maybe some
weird,subdued lighting , for a bit of atmosphere, and a nice spot to sit and
get comfortable.   I know I'd be there exploring, and I'd buy a lot of stuff.

                                           Jim

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 01:57:51 -0700
From: "Stephen P. Goodman" <sgoodman@primenet.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: What do they hear???
Message-Id: <199707040857.BAA02410@usr02.primenet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Future Perfect asked: What has your music been called?

Well, the most common instance with 'non-musical types' (if by that you
mean non-playing or understanding) has been that they were 'thinking of
scenes like in movies' while the pieces were playing.  So, "Soundtrack
music", for one.  "Atmospheric music" second-place.  "Your music", third
place.

Stephen Goodman       * Download The Loop Of The Week and more! 
EarthLight Studios         * http://www.primenet.com/~sgoodman/Studios
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 02:02:58 -0800
From: fred marshall <fred@fredmarshall.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: "top-40 trained ear"
Message-ID: <33BCCA51.4419@fredmarshall.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

- someone wrote:

- "I believe it's the same challenge classical, jazz and
folk music may pose to a typical top-40 trained ear."


- sounds like an oxymoron . . .


mmmmmmm

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 12:36:59 -0400
From: "Bruce Gerow" <bgerow@ny.tds.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Jamman loop border q's
Message-Id: <199707041308.IAA02143@mail.tds.net>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hello Henry,
	I see you are a cello player.I recently saw Gideon Freudmann in concert.He
is an excellent cellist and heavily into looping.Check out his CD
"Cellobotomy" among others.I very recently steered him to the Loopers
Delight page so he may show up here.
	LooseBruce (a squeezer)

----------
> From: Henry Throop <throop@bogart.Colorado.EDU>
> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> Subject: Jamman loop border q's
> Date: Friday, July 04, 1997 2:45 AM
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I've got two jamman questions:
> 
> a) I've almost always get audible 'blurts' at the beginning of my
> loops.  This effect is not just a mismatch at the loop-point, but an
> actual volume-increase for the first 1/4 sec or so of the loop.  It
> makes creating pads on the unit pretty difficult.  I've found that I
> can work around this to loop a sustained chord, but it's awkward:
> 
>   o first tap the loop length, with no input signal
>   o then use the phrased-loop mode to record exactly one cycle of signal
>  
> Apparently, whatever causes the blurt puts it there only while
> recording the original loop, but not while overdubbing.  Has anyone
> else experienced this?
> 
> b) Another loop-boundary problem I've had is this
> 
>   o set up a loop in phrased-loop mode
>   o use replace to replace the entire loop with silence
> 
> When I do this, the entire loop's not replaced, but there's a short
> snippet (100 ms?) of it left in at the boundary.  If I replace the
> entire loop again, the snippet gets shorter, but it takes several
> replacements before the original loop's really out of there.  Anyone
> else?
> 
> By way of introduction, I play cello, originally from a classical
> background, right now going through an atmospherics & wierd noises
> phase.  During college, I'd often get together with guitarists or other
> cellists, turn the lights out, and enter into hour-long free-form
> improvisations.  This is what I'm itching to do more of -- anyone else
> on the list in Boulder / Denver area?
> 
> -henry
> throop@colorado.edu
> 
> 

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 12:43:13 -0400
From: "Bruce Gerow" <bgerow@ny.tds.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Vortex
Message-Id: <199707041308.IAA02185@mail.tds.net>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi Loopers (& Loopettes ?)
	I recently saw 2 vortexs for sale in a music shop.They wanted $300 for
each.Is that a little high or the going rate now?I was looking for JamMen
and was told the Rappers were buying them up.
	LooseBruce

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 15:31:30 +0100
From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: What do they hear???
Message-Id: <25103.199707041431@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

If nothing else, I think this argument shows that even _we_, by and large,
don't know what kind of music we play - and then get upset when other
people don't know either!!  I think - being honest - that this group has
something of a tendency towards taking itself a bit too seriously.  That's
not to say that making music isn't a deep and serious event.  Perhaps what
I'm saying is that sometimes there's an intellectual snobbery around here.

Most people seem deeply offended by an association with New Age.  However,
I think that whilst there's an awful lot of crap under that banner it often
extends to people like Mike Oldfield and Vangelis (musicians I have the
utmost respect for).  Olfield has also been called "Art Rock", "Progressive
Rock" and "Contemporary Classical".  It probably isn't any of these, but
who cares?  He doesn't.  Most people don't.  We're never as unique as we
think we are, and pushing the boundaries is only likely to be noticed by
someone who knows what those boundaries are, dreamed of breaking them and
hasn't had a bad day at the office.  If people say I'm playing New Age, and
it keeps 'em happy, fine.  It doesn't change the music in any way.

I think the only time this becomes a problem is when we're trying to get
gigs or put CDs in bins (the latter being a problem for very few).  As
regards gigs, I'd say just be pragmatic and say whatever's most likely to
get the gig.  Ditto the record bins, just put the CD where it'll sell the
most.  In fact, New Age music buyers are oftem more likely to make impulse
purchaces than people shopping from the Rock/Pop section, hence more sales.

I think maybe this ties in with an old thread about whether we be artists
or entertainers.
 
Michael

Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes   * Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg,
Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979     * University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K.
Fax: (+44) 141 330 4907     * "And the answers?  Sometimes the answers 
www.elec.gla.ac.uk/~pycraft *  just come in the mail" -Laurie Anderson

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 15:33:57 +0100
From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: What do they hear???
Message-Id: <25180.199707041433@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Stephen:
>Well, the most common instance with 'non-musical types' (if by that you
>mean non-playing or understanding) has been that they were 'thinking of
>scenes like in movies' while the pieces were playing.  So, "Soundtrack
>music", for one. 

If someone said that to me I'd think I'd died and gone to heaven!  :)
Anything that gets over that much emotional suggestion must be doing
something right!

Michael

Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes   * Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg,
Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979     * University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K.
Fax: (+44) 141 330 4907     * "And the answers?  Sometimes the answers 
www.elec.gla.ac.uk/~pycraft *  just come in the mail" -Laurie Anderson

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 15:32:31 +0100
From: David.Orton@mail.bl.uk (David Orton)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: What do they hear???
Message-ID: <00051EF7.1424@mail.bl.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: cc:Mail note part

> What has your music been called?
     
     "Lyrical and groovacious" - Guitar Player
     
     "A combination of Frisellian twang and minimalist delicacy" - Time Out 
     (listings magazine for London area)
     
  Sounds good to me, but I've no idea what an archetypal "normal punter" 
  would make of these...
  
  David

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 15:46:40 +0100
From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Some questions for an intro page
Message-Id: <25434.199707041446@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Is "ambient music" the only music that looping artists play?

This reminds me - my fave looper Ed Alleyne-Johnson now has a web-page at 

        http://spasm.redcat.org.uk/~graham/alleyne-johnson/

Ed plays contemporary classical electric violin, playing counterpoint
against himself.  It may be canonical or fugal - if memory serves.  It's
very good, though.

Michael

Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes   * Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg,
Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979     * University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K.
Fax: (+44) 141 330 4907     * "And the answers?  Sometimes the answers 
www.elec.gla.ac.uk/~pycraft *  just come in the mail" -Laurie Anderson

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 11:17:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: PMimlitsch@aol.com
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Unsettling Ambiences
Message-ID: <970704111729_816848664@emout18.mail.aol.com>

The "Unsettling Ambiences" thread reminded me of a passage in one of my old
theory books, so I went back into the archives and found it. It's from Jerry
Coker's book "Improvising Jazz" (copyright 1964), page 15, and, I think,
applicable to the disscussion at hand. It's a quote from Richmond Browne (at
the time a jazz pianist and theory instructor at Yale University):
     "The listener is constantly making predictions; actual infinitesimal
predictions as to whether the next event will be a repetition of something,
or something different. The player is constantly either confirming or denying
the predictions in the listerner's mind. As nearly as we can tell
(Krachenbuehl at Yale and I) the listerner must come out right 50% of the
time-if he is too successful in predicting, he will be bored; if he is too
unsuccessful, he will give up and call the music "disorganized."
      Thus if a player starts a repetative pattern, the listener's attention
drops away as soon as he has successfully predicted that it is going to
continue. Then, if the thing keeps going, the attention curve comes back up,
and the listerner becomes interested in just how long the pattern is going to
continue. Similarly, if the player never repeats anything, no matter how
tremendous an imagination he has, the listerner will decide that the game is
not worth playing, that he is not going to be able to make any predictions
right, and also stops listening. Too much difference is sameness: boring. Too
much sameness is boring-but also different once in a while."    

   Food for thought?--Paul (Mindscape Explorer/Chapman Stick Player/Loopist)
    

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