------------------------------
Loopers-Delight-d Digest				Volume 97 : Issue 105

Today's Topics:
  Re: Music Descriptions                [ matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias  ]
  humbling healthy mistakes             [ matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias  ]
  re: Unsettling Ambiences              [ fred marshall <fred@fredmarshall.co ]
  Music Descriptions                    [ verner@infinitesound.com ]
  Re: Unsettling Ambiences              [ Kim Corbet <kcorbet@post.cis.smu.ed ]
  CW3 Re: Another newbie question.      [ "The Negative Eye" <juma@cyberia.ne ]
  Deaf People (Re: What do they hear??  [ "The Negative Eye" <juma@cyberia.ne ]
  Re: Music Descriptions                [ The Man Himself <altruist@shoko.cal ]
  Vortex                                [ Squidlyguy@aol.com ]
  Re: Unsettling Ambiences              [ future perfect <artmusic@gte.net> ]
  Re: Vortex                            [ Fmplautus@aol.com ]
  Re: Music Descriptions                [ BlkSwan03@aol.com ]
  Re: Music Descriptions                [ The Man Himself <altruist@shoko.cal ]
  Re: Vortex                            [ "andrew" <andrew@bocs.co.uk> ]
  Re: CW3 Re: Another newbie question.  [ Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com> ]
  Re Vortex                             [ PMimlitsch@aol.com ]
  Re: Re Vortex                         [ Dpcoffin@aol.com ]
  Re: Unsettling Ambiences              [ Dpcoffin@aol.com ]
  Re: Unsettling Ambiences              [ matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias  ]

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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 12:41:12 -0300
From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Music Descriptions
Message-Id: <v01520d00afe235b929e3@[200.254.32.152]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>In a message dated 7/1/97 11:15:17 PM, you wrote:
>
><<Recently, on a public bus trip where they played a tape with those tenor
>voices in thirds singing about suffering from love and heartattachments, I
>came up with a tape of mine and they put it in. But at the the first
>somewhat fatter, harmonically still simple loop, the discussion started and
>a guy said that he is tortured by such music. I asked where it hurts and he
>pointed at his forehead.
>Why?
>Why did he not suffer with the suffering singers?
>>>
>
>Matthias, this is such a great story!  I'm amazed that you can pop a tape in
>on a public bus at all.  I can't even imagine this in the US.    The
>Suffering Singers.  That's a good name for a band.   "I suffered for my
>music, now it's your turn."  ( Frank Zappa)

good

In the discussion it was mentioned, that its actually forbidden, but who
cares... It was not in the city, rather a crazy region anyway...

Matthias

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 12:42:12 -0300
From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: humbling healthy mistakes
Message-Id: <v01520d04afe2c3125361@[200.254.32.152]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Stephen:
>> Eno said once I think that "the essence of creativity is the process of
>> working with mistakes", paraphrased.  In this regard it applies well
>here.

Matt:
>Well said!  Lately I've been working on the audio for a CD-ROM and I'm
>noticing that my best ideas come about from mistakes -- at least when
>programming drum tracks.  A humbling realization indeed......unless you
>decide to embrace the concept and run with it.  As a result of doing just
>that, my songwriting partner and I have been priding ourselves in our
>ability to "compose by haphazard."

healthy humbling... if we accept the pleasure of music as coming from its
capability to mirror or represent some higher power or structure - or
however I could put that more open even - its not so amazing that we need
the interference of this power or structure to give sense or essence to
complete our effort of creating.
As long as our mind or the computer hold on what he thinks is correct,
there is no way to grow. If we do not temporarily disauthorize or even
disable our mind from its desire to completely direct our creation, the
higher power or structure might help us by disturbing our mind, introducing
errors, to show us the way.

It might be completely different, though...

Matthias

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 08:55:25 -0800
From: fred marshall <fred@fredmarshall.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: re: Unsettling Ambiences
Message-ID: <33BD2AE7.2953@fredmarshall.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

- someone said:


"Thus if a player starts a repetative pattern, the listener's attention
drops away as soon as he has successfully predicted that it is going to
continue. Then, if the thing keeps going, the attention curve comes back
up,
and the listerner becomes interested in just how long the pattern is
going to
continue. Similarly, if the player never repeats anything, no matter how
tremendous an imagination he has, the listerner will decide that the
game is
not worth playing, that he is not going to be able to make any
predictions
right, and also stops listening. Too much difference is sameness:
boring. Too
much sameness is boring-but also different once in a while.

 Food for thought?  "

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

- thought sandwich:

- player and  "listener" are SAME person. 

- only boring people can be bored . . . (by anything)

- don't worry . . . play music YOU want to hear . . .


- fred marshall

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 12:11:24 -0400
From: verner@infinitesound.com
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Music Descriptions
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970704121124.0069dbb0@infinitesound.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Look, the bottom line is this: It doesn't matter what label or category you
choose for music - there is (and always will be) good and bad stuff!

It doesn't matter if it is New Age, Classical, Rock, Techno, Ambient, etc.
etc. Some of it will be good and some bad. So it makes no sense to
categorically generalize about any genre or style of music.

Unfortunately, we as a society "have" to put things into categories to feel
comfortable.

J. Arif Verner
Infinite Sound Studio
http://www.infinitesound.com/

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 12:24:40 -0500 (CDT)
From: Kim Corbet <kcorbet@post.cis.smu.edu>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Unsettling Ambiences
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9707041157.A28307-0100000@post.cis.smu.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

>      "The listener is constantly making predictions; actual infinitesimal
> predictions as to whether the next event will be a repetition of something,
> or something different...if the player never repeats anything, no matter how
> tremendous an imagination he has, the listerner will decide that the game is
> not worth playing, that he is not going to be able to make any predictions
> right, and also stops listening. Too much difference is sameness: boring. 
> Too much sameness is boring-but also different once in a while."    

.....excellent post.  I remember how my drives used to be a) give the 
audience something they've never experienced before which means, in most 
cases...b) do only what you're inspired to do, that if only one person 
can relate and is somehow changed, that's successful.  

After so many years of hearing "that's, uh, interesting, thanks, bye", 
I began to pay more attention to this business of audience experience 
and expectations.  I first started including a few flavors of styles other 
than primal inspirations (Cage mixed with equatorial rhythms and melodies).
For example, using funkier basslines with bluesy "events" let me keep my 
textures and compositional techniques while enhancing the predictability 
ratio.  Then, when I finally acknowledged we live in visual society, I 
found the use of original video or silent movies or even an edited weird
hodgepodge opened some of those soundtrack doors in their heads that I 
could walk music through as well.  

We've come a long ways since the blackbox electronic music concerts, 
for those who go back that far.  If you're famous enough to set the 
audience afire with your very presence, that's one thing, but if you find 
yourself beaten down by quizical indifference, start collaborating with a 
few sword swallowers, fire eaters and flying magicians.  

Or just show them on TV.  @)  But, seriously, you don't have to sellout 
to find a more "interesting" package to help sell your presentation.

spore kim

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 12:43:56 -0300
From: "The Negative Eye" <juma@cyberia.net.ar>
To: Mattias Ribbing <mattias.ribbing@mailbox.swipnet.se>,
        Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: CW3 Re: Another newbie question.
Message-Id: <m0wkAtI-000QDiC@server1.cyberia.net.ar>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

On  3 Jul 97 at 18:51, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.co wrote:

> Is there a computer program that allows looping with either midi or audio? In
> that case, is there a shareware verion of it? Mattias Ribbing

Hello Matias and Looping people,
The software sequencer CakeWalk 3.x has the loop option.
You can also specify how many loops will it do and when they
will start rolling, and pitch shifting.
You can have up to 256 tracks looping (if you can!).
It does not handle audio, but it does with midi, and of course,
a wavetable card.
The actual version is 6 (but the loop option is over!).
You can still create them by copy and paste x times.
It does handle audio and realtime effects.

Here there may be demos to try:

www.cakewalk.com
ftp.cakewalk.com

Hope It Helps
	
Juan Manuel Aguirre
aka
->thE negativE eyE
-->negativE visioN
--->negativE imagE

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 12:43:56 -0300
From: "The Negative Eye" <juma@cyberia.net.ar>
To: future perfect <artmusic@gte.net>, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Deaf People (Re: What do they hear???)
Message-Id: <m0wkAtG-000QDcC@server1.cyberia.net.ar>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT


------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 15:50:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: The Man Himself <altruist@shoko.calarts.edu>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Music Descriptions
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.91.970704154629.5640A-100000@shoko.calarts.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 4 Jul 1997 BlkSwan03@aol.com wrote:

> There are  a few record stores that allow listening but it's
> always a pain.  It's too bad really.  So little imagination goes into this.
>   Some enterprising character out there should start a string of shops that
> take a more interesting approach to the customer interface. Maybe some
> weird,subdued lighting , for a bit of atmosphere, and a nice spot to sit and
> get comfortable.   I know I'd be there exploring, and I'd buy a lot of stuff.

I've actually found Blockbuster Music to be invaluable in this regard --
they'll let you listen to just about any CD in the store (with the
exception of things like Disc 5 of that 20-disc, factory-sealed boxed set,
for example) at a decent listening station, with no obligation to buy. 
The problem is that just about all the employees at the local branch here
now probably know me as "the guy who's always listening to stuff and never
buys it."  Oh well -- not my fault that Best Buy has the stuff for about
30% cheaper! 

--Andre

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 20:46:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: Squidlyguy@aol.com
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Vortex
Message-ID: <970704204627_1178746323@emout03.mail.aol.com>

I've been thinking about buying a Vortex, but this particular one doesn't
have a foot controller.  Can anyone tell me if there are any other
footcontrollers that I can use with it other than the standard one - I don't
know if it's midi, or just a footswitch.  I wouldn't want to buy one if I
have to tweek with the knobs every time I want to change/morph between
effects.  Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.  Also, I'm a novice
looper, on the verge of getting a Digital pro, but I'd like to hear about the
satisfaction of other Vortex owners.  I get the impression that, if used
creatively, this unit greatly helps transform and personalize your loops, and
even becomes a vital part of many looper's sound.  I've always been amazed at
how David Torn has been able to transform many simple sounds into a huge
evolving soundscape, but am not sure how much of this spectaclar feat I can
attribute to a single device.

Thanks.

Brian <squidlyguy@aol.com>

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 20:56:39 -0400
From: future perfect <artmusic@gte.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Unsettling Ambiences
Message-ID: <33BD9BC7.70A53AF6@gte.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi, everyone- I'm Misha, the other member of 'Future Perfect' (ambient,
prog-ish, renaissan-cy Florida duo), and I've been reading the recent
posts of musical descriptions, audience reactions, 'our art in the
world' etc., and dug up this quote from a favorite author, which I
thought may spark further discussion:
	"Bringing back the gift to integrate it into a rational life is very
difficult. It is even more difficult than going down into the
underworld. What you have to bring back is something that the world
lacks- which is why you went there to get it- and lacking it, the world
does not know that it needs it. And, so on the return, when you come
with your boon for the world and there is no reception, what are you
going to do? There are three possible reactions.
	One answer is to say, 'To hell with them, I'm going back to the woods'.
You buy yourself and dog and a pipe and you let the weeds grow in the
gate. You have come back to the world with your gift, and people look at
you with glassy eyes, call you a 'kook', and so you retreat. This is
refusal of the return.
	The second way is to say, 'What do they want?' You have a skill. You
can give them what they want, the commercial way. Then you have created
a whole pitch for your expressivity, and what you had before gets lost.
You have a public career, and you have renounced the jewel.
	The third possibility is to try to find some aspect of the domain into
which you have come that can receive a little portion of what you have
to give. You try to find a means to deliver what you have found as the
life boon in terms and in proportions that are proper to the world's
ability to receive. It requires a good deal of compassion and patience.
Look for cracks in the wall and give only to those who are ready for
your jewel." ~ Joseph Campbell

Misha
-- 
********************************************************************* 
'Future Perfect' - progressive art music - visit our website at:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/8082 
'If you don't know where you're going, 
you'll probably get there.' - Robert Fripp

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 22:19:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: Fmplautus@aol.com
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Vortex
Message-ID: <970704221923_-1058484954@emout19.mail.aol.com>

Dear Brian:

The Roland EV-5 pedal works very well with the Vortex in combination with the
*^&*&%&^$&^I)*& excuses that Lexicon dubbed "foot pedals."

As far as the Vortex and looping...well, yes, it goes with looping if you
like, but beyond looping it's an extremely interesting tool .  In fact the
LoOpDoctOrs would trade their hospital privilages before giving up their
Vorti...but the one indisputable is that you can run any of the mono loopers
into the Vortex and out comes that loop in stereo...YES!

Best,
the LoOpDoctOrs

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 22:58:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: BlkSwan03@aol.com
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Music Descriptions
Message-ID: <970704225819_-626570634@emout09.mail.aol.com>

In a message dated 7/5/97 12:26:42 AM, you wrote:

<<I've actually found Blockbuster Music to be invaluable in this regard --
they'll let you listen to just about any CD in the store (with the
exception of things like Disc 5 of that 20-disc, factory-sealed boxed set,
for example) at a decent listening station, with no obligation to buy. 
The problem is that just about all the employees at the local branch here
now probably know me as "the guy who's always listening to stuff and never
buys it."  Oh well -- not my fault that Best Buy has the stuff for about
30% cheape>>

How can any record store make it if this is the outcome?   Price isn't
everything.  Service ,
imagination, and genuine care for the customer is the only thing that can
distiguish a  small, struggling shop from the megachains.    If someone
employs people to take care of you (ie: load your selections into a player,
rewrap and restock the CD if you don't buy etc.) don't you think they deserve
the sale?    I'm not keen on Blockbuster.  We have one here in Portland but
I've never warmed up to it.   I basically like to be left alone when I'm
shopping for recordings.  I don't want to have to feel any obligation if I'm
not finding something interesting.  I get to feeling sort of strange there if
I'm asking to hear a bunch of CD's  and none are  doing it.   Also, I find
their selection very limited and mostly mainstream.  They also are inclined
to play crap real loud while your checking out a soft CD.  It just doesn't
work.  There must be an alternative out there somewhere.  

                                         Jim 

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 21:12:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: The Man Himself <altruist@shoko.calarts.edu>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Music Descriptions
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.91.970704202743.15583A-100000@shoko.calarts.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Sorry in advance if this thread is inching away from 100% topicality.  
Still fairly interesting nonetheless, I think...

On Fri, 4 Jul 1997 BlkSwan03@aol.com wrote:

>> <<The problem is that just about all the employees at the local branch 
here
>> now probably know me as "the guy who's always listening to stuff and never
>> buys it."  Oh well -- not my fault that Best Buy has the stuff for about
>> 30% cheape>>
> 
> How can any record store make it if this is the outcome?   Price isn't
> everything.  

No, but when you're talking about an average price of $16.99 - $17.99 at a
chain like Blockbuster as compared to $11.99 - $13.99 at Best Buy, Circuit
City, or most indies, it can start to add up. 

> Service ,
> imagination, and genuine care for the customer is the only thing that can
> distiguish a  small, struggling shop from the megachains.    

I'd agree, though I'd hasten to add that Blockbuster isn't even romotely 
close to a small, struggling shop, so I'm disinclined to feel guilty 
about not buying something there.  

> If someone
> employs people to take care of you (ie: load your selections into a player,
> rewrap and restock the CD if you don't buy etc.) don't you think they deserve
> the sale?    

Not in and of itself, no, because in the case of Blockbuster, I don't feel
that the above service justifies a 25% to 30% increase in the cost, nor do
I believe that the extra cost stems from any sort of rationale regarding
extra services provided to customers.  Keep in mind that it's not as if
that extra four or five bucks is going into the personal pocket of the
employee who restocks the discs, or that they collect an individual
commission on each CD sold that they personally unwrap and/or restock. 
They pocket the same amount regardless of whether or not I purchase it
there, so I don't feel guilty about doing any of the employees a specific
(or non-specific) injustice. 

I definitely feel that the cost of CDs is unrealistically high in general. 
But so many of the music chains take it to a gross extreme: if you go into
a Sam Goody, Wherehouse, or Barnes & Noble, the average cost of a disc is
going to be $17.99 or higher.  That's simply too much money!  Especially
when I can get the same exact disc elsewhere for significantly less 
cash.  If a mega-chain like Best Buy or Circuit City can sell the stuff 
cheaper, I want a good reason why other mega-chains can't.  

You're absolutely right in saying that record stores need to provide
consumers with a way of being able to hear things before they buy them. 
(How many other examples can you think of where a person is expected to
buy something without trying it out first, which they cannot return if
they don't like it?!) And if I were dealing with an indie shop that
stocked a lot of releases I was interested in, which also offered
Blockbuster-style (or better) listening stations, I would likely be more
inclined to justify an extra expense (though not in the $16.99 - and - up
range).  As a matter of fact, I buy from indies at least as often as 
from a major chain.

But in the example I mentioned, it's not as if I'm robbing an independent
of a sale so that I can save a few bucks by selling out to a corporate
giant -- I'm choosing one corporate giant over the other in the name of
not getting charged an unreasonable amount of money. 

And as an aside, I've never ordered a disc from some place just to get a
better price, nor do I frequent mega-chains for all my listening.  If I'm
looking for something on CMP, Alchemy, or DGM, for example, I'm not going
to be going to Musicland.  But to tell you the truth, a lot of the Best
Buy's I've seen have a much deeper and more adventurous catalog than many
indies I've been in, let alone a record chain.  Their prices are cheaper
than Blockbuster and their selection is better; if Blockbuster wants me to
buy their discs, they'll have to expand their catalog and lower their
prices. 

--Andre

------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 09:30:10 +0100
From: "andrew" <andrew@bocs.co.uk>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Vortex
Message-Id: <199707050828.JAA27559@mail.bogo.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Brian,

As mentioned, the Roland EV5 is a good expression pedal, but for
some reason Roland charge a ridiculous amount of money for them
( here in the UK , about 75.00pounds ). I recently came across an
Italian company, Promoel ( or Pro-Moel ? ) who make an exp pedal
just like the Ev5, and they cost about 35.00. I bought one for my
Vortex and it works as well as the EV5.
There may be others, best place to check is keyboard/synth specialist
dealers. 


Good luck
Andrew

----------
> From: Squidlyguy@aol.com
> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> Subject: Vortex
> Date: 05 July 1997 01:46
> 
> I've been thinking about buying a Vortex, but this particular one doesn't
> have a foot controller.  Can anyone tell me if there are any other
> footcontrollers that I can use with it other than the standard one - I
don't
> know if it's midi, or just a footswitch.  I wouldn't want to buy one if I
> have to tweek with the knobs every time I want to change/morph between
> effects.  Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.  Also, I'm a
novice
> looper, on the verge of getting a Digital pro, but I'd like to hear about
the
> satisfaction of other Vortex owners.  I get the impression that, if used
> creatively, this unit greatly helps transform and personalize your loops,
and
> even becomes a vital part of many looper's sound.  I've always been
amazed at
> how David Torn has been able to transform many simple sounds into a huge
> evolving soundscape, but am not sure how much of this spectaclar feat I
can
> attribute to a single device.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Brian <squidlyguy@aol.com>

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 23:59:34 -0700
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: CW3 Re: Another newbie question.
Message-Id: <v03102800afe39f2be270@[207.171.198.114]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

The Negative Eye wrote:
>
>> Is there a computer program that allows looping with either midi or
>>audio? In
>> that case, is there a shareware verion of it? Mattias Ribbing
>
>Hello Matias and Looping people,
>The software sequencer CakeWalk 3.x has the loop option.
>You can also specify how many loops will it do and when they
>will start rolling, and pitch shifting.
>You can have up to 256 tracks looping (if you can!).
>It does not handle audio, but it does with midi, and of course,
>a wavetable card.
>The actual version is 6 (but the loop option is over!).
>You can still create them by copy and paste x times.
>It does handle audio and realtime effects.

But can it do any of that in real time? I don't know that I've seen
anything on a pc or mac that could do serious real-time looping. Lots of
software lets you set up loops if you are willing to sit there patiently
pointing and clicking. Not a lot of room for spontaneity or improvisation,
though. Especially if you want to create loops live in a performance.

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 08:07:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: PMimlitsch@aol.com
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re Vortex
Message-ID: <970705080755_191869694@emout05.mail.aol.com>

The LoOpDoctOrs wrote-"The Roland EV-5 pedal works very well with the Vortex
in combination with the
*^&*&%&^$&^I)*& excuses that Lexicon dubbed "foot pedals.""

So thats what those pedals are called. I was looking for another one one but
didn't know what to ask the sales rep for :). (Actually I haven't had any
trouble with either my Jman or Vortex *^&%&^$&^I pedals). - Paul

------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 08:39:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dpcoffin@aol.com
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Re Vortex
Message-ID: <970705083955_-824578878@emout07.mail.aol.com>

<<*^&*&%&^$&^I)*& excuses that Lexicon dubbed "foot pedals."">>

Your Vortex will much more fun once you buy a 2nd one of these little
2-button lightweights...still avail. from Lex direct for about $30...now you
can have Tap, A/B, Bypass, and Step all available at your toes, along with
the indispensible Roland EV-5 CV pedal, of course, about $70 with shipping
from AMS. There's simply never been a better FX bang-for-$$  deal than the
Vortex, despite its storage flaws. True stereo, and that totally unique
morphing..don't hesitate if you're a sound mangler.
dpc

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Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 08:42:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dpcoffin@aol.com
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Unsettling Ambiences
Message-ID: <970705084235_-492197563@emout05.mail.aol.com>

<<- thought sandwich:

- player and  "listener" are SAME person. 

- only boring people can be bored . . . (by anything)

- don't worry . . . play music YOU want to hear . . .
>>
Hearing too much of the music you DON'T want to hear leads to....perhaps not
boredom exactly...irritration? ...are these the same thing?....and the
decision to begin purchasing musical equipment (player and  "listener" SAME
person)...feedback loop...delightful narcissism....greater clarity about
music you want to hear...increased impatience with music you don't...gradual
downfall of the recorded music industry...growing refusal to leave private
studio, except under duress...increased interest in reactions of other people
to your mad creations....understanding that listening as the creator is
totally different than listening as an audience...player and listener NOT the
same person...feedback loop, or rising spiral?...branching thought path:
listening as a creator to the creations of your peers is totally different
still: is it possible to suspend judgement? Is measuring the "boredom
quotient" a reliable basis for understanding a listening experience? But
aren't the elements that lead to boredom arranged quite differently in each
of these categories: your own "always-in-progress" creations; the musical
creations of friends, however skillful or loved; the rest of the music in the
air?
...back to the headphone feedback loop!
dpc

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Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 10:13:49 -0300
From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Unsettling Ambiences
Message-Id: <v01520d00afe2f88f83b9@[200.254.32.102]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Jerry Coker:
>     "The listener is constantly making predictions; actual infinitesimal
>predictions as to whether the next event will be a repetition of something,
>or something different. The player is constantly either confirming or denying
>the predictions in the listerner's mind. As nearly as we can tell
>(Krachenbuehl at Yale and I) the listerner must come out right 50% of the
>time-if he is too successful in predicting, he will be bored; if he is too
>unsuccessful, he will give up and call the music "disorganized."

I really liked that one!

Paul Mindscape Explorer feeding our thoughts:
>      Thus if a player starts a repetative pattern, the listener's attention
>drops away as soon as he has successfully predicted that it is going to
>continue. Then, if the thing keeps going, the attention curve comes back up,
>and the listerner becomes interested in just how long the pattern is going to
>continue. Similarly, if the player never repeats anything, no matter how
>tremendous an imagination he has, the listerner will decide that the game is
>not worth playing, that he is not going to be able to make any predictions
>right, and also stops listening.

That connects to my search for the "achetype" melodies. There might be a
way to be predictable without repeating anything!

I was highly amazed when I once listened to a instrument that Marco Antonio
Guimaraes developped: Its a hamer, hanging on a flexible axis of a motor,
balancing and "playing" tuned tubes, hanging around it - mechanic, but
unpredictable - you first think, but then, suddenly, sequences of notes
happen you can follow, as if you had predicted, strange...

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