------------------------------
Loopers-Delight-d Digest				Volume 97 : Issue 106

Today's Topics:
  Re Unsetlling Ambiences Clarificatio  [ PMimlitsch@aol.com ]
  Digitech Mc2 Pedal                    [ BlkSwan03@aol.com ]
  Re2: CW3 Re: Another newbie question  [ "The Negative Eye" <juma@cyberia.ne ]
  Re: looping devices / Akai Remix16    [ Gabestern@aol.com ]
  "The Western Lands"                   [ PMimlitsch@aol.com ]
  Re: Another newbie question.          [ Dan Trueman <dan@silvertone.Princet ]
  Re: Re Vortex                         [ "Robert S. Carter" <rsc4@hmivax.hum ]
  Re: Some questions for an intro page  [ Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com> ]
  G3 info                               [ sarajane@tmbsbbs.com (Sarajane) ]
  loonness monster                      [ sarajane@tmbsbbs.com (Sarajane) ]
  re: Unsettling Ambiences              [ pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hu ]
  FS: Jamman $250                       [ "Hartnett, Travis" <Hartnett#m#_Tra ]
  Returning music                       [ "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.c ]
  re: Unsettling Ambiences              [ Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com> ]
  help!? - plex thermal problem even w  [ dan mcmullen <dog@well.com> ]

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Kim Flint
kflint@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 15:23:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: PMimlitsch@aol.com
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re Unsetlling Ambiences Clarification
Message-ID: <970705152355_-1695836245@emout18.mail.aol.com>

Mathias Grobb wrote in response to a quote from Jerry Coker's "Improvising
Jazz" that I (Paul) submitted to the list:

<<Jerry Coker:
>     "The listener is constantly making predictions; actual infinitesimal
>predictions as to whether the next event will be a repetition of something,
>or something different. The player is constantly either confirming or
denying
>the predictions in the listerner's mind. As nearly as we can tell
>(Krachenbuehl at Yale and I) the listerner must come out right 50% of the
>time-if he is too successful in predicting, he will be bored; if he is too
>unsuccessful, he will give up and call the music "disorganized."

I really liked that one!

Paul Mindscape Explorer feeding our thoughts:
>      Thus if a player starts a repetative pattern, the listener's attention
>drops away as soon as he has successfully predicted that it is going to
>continue. Then, if the thing keeps going, the attention curve comes back up,
>and the listerner becomes interested in just how long the pattern is going
to
>continue. Similarly, if the player never repeats anything, no matter how
>tremendous an imagination he has, the listerner will decide that the game is
>not worth playing, that he is not going to be able to make any predictions
>right, and also stops listening.>>

Just to clarify--1) The quote is actually by Richmond Browne, jazz pianist
and instructor of theory at Yale University. And more importantly, so that I
don't get accused of plagerism :-), 2) The second paragraph, that Mathias
mistakenly attributes to me "feeding our thoughts", was still part of Mr.
Browne's quote and, as it appears in Mr. Coker's book and in my original
post, was a second paragraph. In my original post this second paragraph may
have appeared to be my contribution to Mr. Brown's 1st paragraph which it was
not. Hope this clears up any misunderstanding. Just giving credit where
credit is due. Mathias also wrote:

<<I was highly amazed when I once listened to a instrument that Marco Antonio
Guimaraes developped: Its a hamer, hanging on a flexible axis of a motor,
balancing and "playing" tuned tubes, hanging around it - mechanic, but
unpredictable - you first think, but then, suddenly, sequences of notes
happen you can follow, as if you had predicted, strange...>>

I've always liked the sound of the chimes made by the "Woodstock Instrument
Co." These come in sets that are tuned to various pentatonic scales (they
even have one tuned to a "blues" scale) and have a beautifull full ringing
sound rich in harmonics. Check 'em out. -- Paul

------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 20:45:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: BlkSwan03@aol.com
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Digitech Mc2 Pedal
Message-ID: <970705204527_-426972478@emout13.mail.aol.com>

Does anyone out there have any experience with this pedal?  It comes across
as a simple, easy to use pedal for midi continuous control messages.  I
bought one to control the morphing on my Morpheus synth.  Problem is that it
alway sticks and then everything has to be shut off and switched back on.
 Major pain.  I've tried it on my JV 1080 synth, but it sticks there too.
 Not as much, but bad enough.  Digitech claims to have no feedback of a
problem like this with anyone else.  The Canadian company that manufactures
the pedal for them also claims the same lack of complaints.  Odd isn't it?
Everything is just fine all around then.   Anyway, I'm just wondering if
anyone out there has had similar problems or knows of a workaround.

                                      Jim

------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 18:23:55 -0300
From: "The Negative Eye" <juma@cyberia.net.ar>
To: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re2: CW3 Re: Another newbie question.
Message-Id: <m0wknFv-000QDbC@server1.cyberia.net.ar>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Hello dear Loopers,

On  4 Jul 97 at 23:59, Kim Flint wrote:

> >It does handle audio and realtime effects.
> But can it do any of that in real time?
About audio processing, it can, but you need a "good" machine
(Pentium200) to make it work nicely..

> I don't know that I've seen anything on a pc or mac that could do serious
> real-time looping. Lots of software lets you set up loops if you are willing
> to sit there patiently pointing and clicking. Not a lot of room for spontaneity
> or improvisation, though.
> Especially if you want to create loops live in a performance.
> kim
About MIDI looping:
You can work with loops if you already have them set. Then you can mix and
turn them on and off, etc with a MIXER view wich is very versatile.
As you said, it's still a matter of pointing and clicking (keyboard's faster), 
but you can still can have a good time.
About spontaneity and improvisation, it depends on how much you have set
up to make it loop. The "spontaneity" problem resides in that you cannot add 
new material to the one set if it's playing.
Anyway, I think it as one more usefull artistic TOOL.

Thanks,
Good Bye,
Good Luck,

Juan Manuel Aguirre
aka
->thE negativE eyE
-->negativE visioN
--->negativE imagE

------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 21:38:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gabestern@aol.com
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: looping devices / Akai Remix16
Message-ID: <970705213758_-1326803631@emout13.mail.aol.com>

In a message dated 97-07-02 01:52:00 EDT, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
writes:

<< 
 I'd like to hear more about the Akai Remix16 from someone who's actually
 got one. The demo at NAMM was pretty interesting. I know one person on the
 list actually owns one. Gabriel? Care to give us a review? >>
Well, yes, I'd be glad to give you a review.  I'm too busy right now, but
maybe tonight or tomorrow.  It would actually give me a chance to gather my
thoughts on the Remix16 anyway.

------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 21:56:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: PMimlitsch@aol.com
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: "The Western Lands"
Message-ID: <970705215559_1826361308@emout06.mail.aol.com>

Last week I got a new Stickr CD release that I would highly recommend. It's
Arthur Durkee's solo release "The Western Lands".  Jazz/lines, rythmic loops,
feedback loops, backward loops, ripping improvs., atmospherics, interesting
use of voice  all coming together to make for a highly enjoyable listening
experience. Not only that but it's a cool jade green color :-).  --Paul
(Mindscape Explorer) 
P.S.-Not related to Art Durkee or affiliated w/Black Dragon Productions. Just
an appreciator of fine artists everywhere
-contact Art at<stickdragn@aol.com>.

------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 00:36:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dan Trueman <dan@silvertone.Princeton.EDU>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Another newbie question.
Message-Id: <Pine.SGI.3.91.970706003313.29667C-100000@silvertone.Princeton.EDU>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I use a program called LiSa (http://www.xs4all.nl/~steim/) for audio 
looping and sampling. It's not shareware but there is a demo. I think it's 
wonderful and I'm beginning to use it in live performance situations.

dan

----------------
"we need new instruments very badly..."
Edgar Varese
----------------


On Thu, 3 Jul 1997, Mattias Ribbing wrote:

> Is there a computer program that allows looping with either midi or audio?
> In that case, is there a shareware verion of it?
> 
> Mattias Ribbing
> 
> 

------------------------------
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 1997 16:31:37 +0000
From: "Robert S. Carter" <rsc4@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Re Vortex
Message-id: <33BFC869.3BE5@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Parts Express 1-800-338-0531 sells a double footswitch which from the
picture in the catalog looks exactly like the lexicon thing.  It's
$19.80. 

BOB.






Dpcoffin@aol.com wrote:
> 
> <<*^&*&%&^$&^I)*& excuses that Lexicon dubbed "foot pedals."">>
> 
> Your Vortex will much more fun once you buy a 2nd one of these little
> 2-button lightweights...still avail. from Lex direct for about $30...now you
> can have Tap, A/B, Bypass, and Step all available at your toes, along with
> the indispensible Roland EV-5 CV pedal, of course, about $70 with shipping
> from AMS. There's simply never been a better FX bang-for-$$  deal than the
> Vortex, despite its storage flaws. True stereo, and that totally unique
> morphing..don't hesitate if you're a sound mangler.
> dpc

------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 16:08:11 -0700
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Some questions for an intro page
Message-Id: <v03102802afe5b8881f7e@[207.171.196.221]>
Content-Type: text/plain

At 11:12 PM +0200 7/2/97, Mattias Ribbing wrote:
>Hello,
>
>Here are a couple of questions. I can send more as I come up with any. Other
>newbies: Please write some of your own. Some of these might sound stupid for
>someone who has been doing this for a long time, but I think that these are
>the kinds of questions that people will ask that have just become interested
>in looping. If these questions are to be put on a web page, please correct
>any spelling or grammatical mistakes, since I«m not a native english speaker.

If you are new to looping, there are some good articles on our web site to
learn from. David Torn's "In The Loop" is a great introduction:

http://www.annihilist.com/loop/musings/David_Torn/Torn_Loop_Article.html


Also, if you are just starting to experiment with looping, Matthias Grob's
"Playing Hints" section from the old Paradis LoopDelay manual is on the web
and offers some great advice. Obviously, some of it is focused on use of
the LoopDelay and it's successor, the Oberheim Echoplex, but there are many
good tips for anyone:

http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tips/Plhints.html



>
>How many looping tracks can you add to one loop?

This is really dependant on the looping device. Most dedicated loopers have
some kind "overdub" capability that allows you to add more audio material
to the loop. The Oberheim Echoplex, Lexicon JamMan, and Boomerang Phrase
Sampler all have this ability. Usually you can add as much material as you
like, "infinite overdubbing." In some cases the older material tends to
decay a little as new material is added. The new material is mixed in with
the old and cannot be controlled independently.

Many simple phrase sampler devices do not have this overdubbing capability.
Once you have captured something in the loop, you can't add more to it. The
Yamaha SU-10 and Roland MS1 are examples, as are the simple loopers found
on many dj consoles. Some of these devices do offer polyphony, where the
different phrases can be triggered by a sequencer and played together.

I don't believe there are any loopers available that allow for true
multi-track loops, where you have independent control over multiple loops
playing at once. The closest to that is the Oberheim Echoplex, which has
sync capabilities that allow multiple units to operate together as one.
Obviously that means you need to buy several echoplexes....




>Is "ambient music" the only music that looping artists play?

Certainly not! But that is a common misconception. Pretty much any music
that employs repetition works well for looping, which is pretty much most
kinds of music! Some forms where looping is prominent:

Ambient, as you noted.
hip-hop
dub
dj oriented dance and collage music
"electronica" -  techno, ambient-techno, house, drum n' bass, trip-hop, etc.
industrial
experimental/avant garde
acoustic soloists / folk

Also, looping is showing up in various conventional styles, pop, R&B, jazz,
rock, etc.



>Can a looping device be used as an ordinary digital delay and reverb?

Many dedicated loopers are digital delays at heart. And many ordinary
digital delays can serve for looping. The Echoplex, JamMan, and TC
Electronics 2290 all cross that boundary easily. Reverb is not really
related to looping, but there are devices capable of looping that can also
do reverb effects. The Eventide harmonizers and the Lexicon MXP-1 are
capable of this. The Lexicon Vortex is another device which has other
effects in addition to looping. As you might expect, the looping capability
on multifunction devices is usuually fairly minimal.


>
>When you finnish a looped piece of music, are there any other ways to end it
>than just stopping it?

Anyone from Finland care to answer that? (sorry, I couldn't resist...:-)

Again, it depends on the device. Many loopers offer the traditional sort of
feedback control that you would find on a typical delay. So you could end
it by letting it slowly die away. Usually you can add new things to the
loop as it is fading, so the loop can evolve in a new direction. You could
also manipulate the sound of the loop with whatever tools are offered to
alter it into some kind of "finished" state. So yes, there are many things
you can do other than just stopping. It's up to your creative impulse.

Also, in the process of creating the loop, there is often the possibility
to immediately begin altering the loop after you create it. For instance,
you may have the overdubbing function come on immediately after you finish
recording the loop, so that you immediately begin adding new material while
your playing continues uninterrupted. Or you may do something like end the
record by immediately putting the loop into reverse.


>
>What«s the main difference between the looping devices on the market other
>than the memory?

That's a big question. There is a lot of information on the Looper's
Delight web site about different loop devices. Start here:

http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tools/tools.html

Memory is only an issue if you don't have enough to do what you want. Many
multi-effect devices that include looping are limited in this way. Memory
is cheap these days, so it's increasinly less significant an issue. You
should really be considering what you might want to do with loops and
whether a device offers those functions. Some things you may be looking for
are overdubbing capability, feedback control, style of control interface,
midi sync, midi control, multiple loops, pitch variability, sampler-like
triggering functions, reversing, insert, replace, undo, computer
interfaces, effects for the loop, stereo, etc... You should also consider
if a device has functions you don't need now but can grow into later.



>How much in general do you have to pay for a good looping device that you
>wont outgrow too quickly?

Depends on what you want to do and what part of the world you are in. A
delay pedal with loop ability might be less than US$100. A used digitech
Time Machine or similar delay might be well under $200. JamMans and
Vortices might be fairly cheap used ($200), if you can find one. Boomerangs
are in the $300-$500 range, depending on memory. Echoplexes are in the $550
- $800 range. Lexicon and TC multieffects are over $1000. Eventides are
well over that. I'm not sure what price some of the more dj oriented
devices, like the Akai remix are going for.


>Do looping devices work together with midi?

Echoplex, JamMan, and probably the Remix16 use midi. All three offer midi
sync and midi control to various degrees. The plex and remix have sampler
type triggering functions. The plex has sample dump, which everyone seems
to want but never actually uses. (the remix may have that too)   The phrase
samplers from yamaha and roland probably have midi functionality as well.
The multieffect devices certainly have midi functionality, but I'm not sure
how much is loop specific.


I hope this is a good start for you. Anyone else out there, please feel
free to add your own comments! It would be great to turn this thread into a
faq for the web site. Also, any other newcomers with questions, please add
them!

kim


______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: Mon,  7 Jul 1997 01:05:17 GMT
From: sarajane@tmbsbbs.com (Sarajane)
To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com
Subject: G3 info
Message-Id: <970706220006213@tmbsbbs.com>

Recently spoke with Bill Forth, road manager for R. Fripp on the current
G3
tour. He said the tour will be taking a break, but will resume in
September.
He also mentioned that R.F. has been joined recently for Soundscapes on
stage by Mike Keneally and Stu Hamm(spelling?)  Thought it might be of
interest.

                                                              Bryan Helm

------------------------------
Date: Mon,  7 Jul 1997 01:03:49 GMT
From: sarajane@tmbsbbs.com (Sarajane)
To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com
Subject: loonness monster
Message-Id: <970706220006212@tmbsbbs.com>

Howdy Folks,
                          The recent threads of "music description" and
"what do they
hear?" ,along with the associated responses, have prompted me to thunk a

thawt or two about my own reationship with looping......not that I can
manage
a very objective position in the process..... but here goes.
                            I started looping publicly as I recall in
1979 in a duo with
me on a Wurlitzer Electric Piano and electric 6-string and my partner on
electric guitar and fretless bass(thru an analog Echoplex), routed
through
2 half track reel to reels at 7 1/2 IPS (positioned at varying distances
apart
with the microphone-stand/capstan technique) and looping the signal back
thru my Space Echo. I wonder why I ever thought that I should perform
this stuff live in public and quite honestly 18 years later, having
played parties,
talent shows,record stores, art gallerys,coffeehouses,chiropractors
offices,
open mike nights, college lunch rooms,store openings, and some gigs I've
probably forgotten,..I still wonder. Not that I could ever stop looping,
privately
that is...but public performances of ambient works particularly, often
point out
the inherent hazards of being the purveyour of a style that if done
well, is per
Eno, "as ignorabe as it is listenable". The more rhythmic nuances
brought into
play, the more readily received the work is as a rule. Really subtle
stuff is for
the most part not capable of being discerned in live performance
situations,
even if you ban the blended drink noise, a la Fripp. Marrying your sound
to
another media helps some people to relate to the music, regardless of
how
random the relationship may be in actual design. The soundtrack "bin
label"
is viable since that's where the average person has encountered music of
this style and dynamic. The movie is also the last place they shut off
their
internal dialogue, in a relatively quiet space, while being exposed to a
industry standard sound system.....it helps alot. If the world of sound
you're
looking to augment with music, is like many people's in this society,
then
music of this style is of limited purpose for you. Some "new age"
business
locals ( chiropractors, birthing centers,) utilize this style of music
to enhance
their office atmosphere, but live performance is of limited need or
use.Indeed
as I think about it ,my last live gig was 2 years ago this coming
October for an
artist's reception at a gallery in Denver. I suppose that this vexation
in booking
gigs is ongoing for all artists dealing in esoteric styles, but
sometimes it
seems that the devices we use can create an uneasy aspect for the
audience
to appreciate as being a "live" performance.  Unique textures we love,
simply
don't always translate to someone who simply wants to see you "play"
your
instrument , and there are a surprising number of these people out
there.
After noticing people putting their heads down on the tables to enjoy
the music,
one coffeehouse told me that people didn't order as much when we played,
not
a marketeting plus, for that kind of venue.  Considerations such as
these along
with the personal cost aspect of performing ,by definition, "unpopular"
music
make for a persuasive argument to keep this music in the studio. The pay
to
play reality is harder to come to terms with as my family and I get
older. The
number of artists who manage to achieve any degree of sucess from their
loop
related work (of a non-ambient vein) is growing as the technology gets
more
familiar to the listening public. However I don't feel the same optimism
for the
ambient side of the loop house, as it where. The audience for real,
delicate,and
thoughtful loop texturing is a limited one, probably containing more
than a few
fellow loopers in it's ranks. In that loopers are good listeners, that's
not a bad
thing, however the tour attendance figures could be a bit small. Perhaps
it's
just a twisted marketing ploy away... Batman battles the
"Loopster"...thrill to
the stage magic and kinetic thrills of "Loopdance"...one ticket----two
stages--
17 different loop artists, it's "Loopalooza 98"......then every kid will
want a
hand held portable looper as seen in "Home Alone '98-Looped Again".
 After all... to the uneducated ear a closed loop sounds the same as a
constantly triggered sample...right? I have surely digressed..pardon the
ramble..loop on.

                                                 Sincerely,

Bryan Helm

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 15:42:02 +0100
From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: re: Unsettling Ambiences
Message-Id: <1172.199707071442@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Right, said Fred*:
>- player and  "listener" are SAME person. 
>- only boring people can be bored . . . (by anything)
>- don't worry . . . play music YOU want to hear . . .

Point one is only true in you're playing for yourself; if there is an
audience, this statement becomes rather abstract and meaningless.  Point
two seems terribly judgemental.  In my opinion the performer isn't really
in a position to criticise the audience for finding their work boring.  The
audience all have certain expectations in return for giving valuable hours
of their lives to listen to a player.  The player is _obliged_ to make that
experience worthwhile, especially if they've paid.  Point 3 is totally
valid, but meshes best with point 2 when you can filter an audience to
thoes people who share your musical tastes...

On a similar point, Kim Corbet's post about involving the audience is
exactly on the nail.  Brilliant post Kim!!!

Michael

*Sorry, couldn't resist!

Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes   * Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg,
Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979     * University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K.
Fax: (+44) 141 330 4907     * "And the answers?  Sometimes the answers 
www.elec.gla.ac.uk/~pycraft *  just come in the mail" -Laurie Anderson

------------------------------
Date: 7 Jul 1997 11:57:58 -0700
From: "Hartnett, Travis" <Hartnett#m#_Travis@msgate.apple.com>
To: "Loopers Delight postings" <loopers-delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: FS: Jamman $250
Message-ID: <n1343852986.63396@msgate.apple.com>

>From Harmony Central:

Lexicon JamMan, digital delay.

Asking Price: US$250
Condition: Excellent
Age: N/A
Description:

       Lexicon JamMan digital delay unit in perfect condition.
       Includes pedal and power supply. Manual included.

       250$ firm. you pay shipping.

       E-mail: aalacruz@samford.edu

Seller: Archie La Cruz, 205-939-1734
E-mail: aalacruz@samford.edu
Location: BIRMINGHAM, AL
Post Date: 7/3/97

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 97 13:20:04 -0000
From: "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.com>
To: "Looper's Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Returning music
Message-Id: <199707071816.LAA12926@scv2.apple.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

>You're absolutely right in saying that record stores need to provide
>consumers with a way of being able to hear things before they buy them. 
>(How many other examples can you think of where a person is expected to
>buy something without trying it out first, which they cannot return if
>they don't like it?!) And if I were dealing with an indie shop that
>stocked a lot of releases I was interested in, which also offered
>Blockbuster-style (or better) listening stations, I would likely be more
>inclined to justify an extra expense (though not in the $16.99 - and - up
>range).  As a matter of fact, I buy from indies at least as often as 
>from a major chain.

What backward burgs are y'all living in?  No return policy?  Shee-yit....
Anyway, I used to work in an indie CD store in Austin, Texas, and we had 
two CD listening stations and a turntable where you could listen to 
anything before buying it and return anything within 10 days for credit 
with a receipt.  We had a posted policy explaining that we weren't a 
library, and that if we though you were abusing the return/listening 
policy, we'd just show you the door.  
It wasn't a problem with most things, but a few years back the majors 
started a "zero-defects/no returns" policy, where they wouldn't take 
returns on stuff that had been opened.  In the old days stores would wink 
and say "These were defective!" and the label would wink back and go 
"That's okay!  We're robbing the musicians blind anyway!" and take the 
crap back.  This makes it difficult to return opened stuff which someone 
just didn't like.  Since we also sold used CD's, we'd just mark it at the 
used price ($9.99 versus $13.99 new) and eat it.  It happened rarely 
enough that it was worth getting people to try things (people are lazy 
about returns) to offset the new returns.  Being a small store, we didn't 
buy that much stuff directly from the majors, so it wasn't a big factor, 
but for the large chains, it might be more of a problem.  However, I know 
that Tower has a return policy, and if they can do it, it would seem that 
Blockbuster can.  

Travis Hartnett

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 10:43:22 -0700
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: re: Unsettling Ambiences
Message-Id: <v03102802afe6d9f13ced@[207.171.197.25]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 3:42 PM +0100 7/7/97, Dr M. P. Hughes wrote:
>Right, said Fred*:
>>- player and  "listener" are SAME person.
>>- only boring people can be bored . . . (by anything)
>>- don't worry . . . play music YOU want to hear . . .
>
>Point one is only true in you're playing for yourself; if there is an
>audience, this statement becomes rather abstract and meaningless.

Even I, with an engineering degree and a dim knowledge of philosophy,
recognized point one's origins in the German Enlightenment, and it's
connection to one of the more important thinkers in human history.

I Kant imagine who that might be though.....;-)

synthesis is more than the square wave coming out of that box in your rack.....

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 20:16:28 -0700
From: dan mcmullen <dog@well.com>
To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com
Subject: help!? - plex thermal problem even with mod?
Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19970707201628.00648480@mail.well.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

just saw the "undo == record" behavior on my new plex after having it on
for most of today!  has anyone else seen this?

the only twist to my mod was that the adc chip in my plex is socketed, so i
just bent the pin out rather than clipping it.  this should work, yes?

my board is rev b, w/ 3.32 firmware.

can anyone tell me what's going on?  is there any additional way to avoid
the thermal problem?

tia,
dan

ps- figured out that the undo led goes on the 2nd loop after recording if
feedback is less than 100%: you can undo the gain reduction for each loop!
:-)  seems like this could interfere with undoing overdubs & such when
feedback is <100% though.  is there any way to disable this behavior?
___
dan mcmullen                               don't worry - pay attention
dog@well.com                                              415.681-0712
pgp public key id  =  0A25C54D   (finger dog@well.com for current key)
      fingerprint  =  E4 F9 24 00 8C 1F 69 48  3B 09 C4 9A 09 59 43 0E

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