------------------------------ Loopers-Delight-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 110 Today's Topics: Re: Vortex pedal [ jessekudler@juno.com (Jesse G Kudle ] Re: Let The Power Fall [ PainPete@aol.com ] Re: Let The Power Saw [ andre ] Re: Let The Power Saw [ pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Michael Pyc ] A couple of responses ------------------------------ Loopers-Delight-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 110 Today's Topics: Re: Vortex pedal [ jessekudler@juno.com (Jesse G Kudle ] Re: Let The Power Fall [ PainPete@aol.com ] Re: Let The Power Saw [ andre < ] Re: Let The Power Saw [ pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Michael Pyc ] A couple of responses [ Warren Sirota < ] Re: Let The Power Fall [ BlkSwan03@aol.com ] Amplifiers for looping [ SoundFNR@aol.com ] RE: "Let the Flower Eat Paul"... [ Michael Peters < ] Re: Amplifiers for looping [ ANET@aol.com ] Re: A couple of responses [ Kim Flint < ] Administrivia: Looper's Delight **************** Please send posts to: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Don't send them to the digest! To subscribe/unsubscribe to the Loopers-Delight digest version, send email with "subscribe" (or "unsubscribe") in both the subject and the body, with no signature files, to: Loopers-Delight-d-request@annihilist.com To subscribe/unsubscribe to the real Loopers-Delight list, send email with "subscribe" (or "unsubscribe") in both the subject and the body, with no signature files, to: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Check the web page for archives and lots of other goodies! http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html Your humble list maintainer, Kim Flint kflint@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 04:39:58 EDT From: jessekudler@juno.com (Jesse G Kudler) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Vortex pedal Message-ID: <<19970712.043709.8263.8.JesseKudler@juno.com> A music store today told me that they were getting a continuous control pedal from Lexicon directly for $30. Does this is exist or was the music store guy confused? -Jesse On Wed, 9 Jul 1997 17:52:08 -0400 (EDT) SoundFNR@aol.com writes: >In a message dated 05/07/97 8:31:278:23, you write: > >> As mentioned, the Roland EV5 is a good expression pedal, but for >> some reason Roland charge a ridiculous amount of money for them >> ( here in the UK , about 75.00pounds ). I recently came across an >> Italian company, Promoel ( or Pro-Moel ? ) who make an exp pedal >> just like the Ev5, and they cost about 35.00. I bought one for my >> Vortex and it works as well as the EV5. >> There may be others, best place to check is keyboard/synth >specialist >> dealers. > >Also Bespeco( another bunch of Italians) make the VM 18-L for about >the same. >Includes switch to reverse pedal action & built in lead. >Vortexes fine. >Andy (UK) > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 06:54:41 -0400 (EDT) From: PainPete@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Let The Power Fall Message-ID: <<970712065440_681009367@emout10.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-07-12 04:10:52 EDT, you write: <<<< During the 70s Fripp made extensive use of the EML Synthi; a primitive synthesizer that accepts an analog input. Fripp plugged his guitar into this device to get the synth-like sound used in his 70s/early 80s Frippertronics. >> Thanks for the good info - Would you happen to know how extensively these devices were manufactured, and are re-issues still being made by EML, as the VCS3 still is? Was it a megbucks gizmo for back then? Is it now a megabucks antique? (No wonder I couldn't get that tone quite right...) Thanks Pete ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 10:51:27 -0400 (EDT) From: andre < To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Let The Power Saw Message-Id: <<199707121451.KAA05831@shell.monmouth.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" If you want to hear him (Fripp) shred on disc I would recommend the aforementioned live League of Gentlemen CD or the live Sylvian/Fripp Band CD "Damage" (the latter features Soundscapes also). For my money the most >dissapointing work in public release by Fripp is the Soundscapes Live > in Argentina CD....don't get me started.--Bryan Helm/Techno Primitve Tantrum Boy thanks Brayn - i've always wondered about the Sylvian -Fripp discs - not much mention of them here... but on your wordz i think i'll pick it up...today i have a spree planned, so... But i agree on the sounscapes live discs - i have 2 or 3 of 'em (does it matter) and i too am dissapointed - they make good background going to sleep type discs but there's a million bad new age discs that can do that. excellent package, liner notes (awesome!!) great quality, but... boring. Sorry RF, love you & yer work but... play some notes! i guess for me - i could do the same sleepy, simple synth washes thru echo for 45 mins... part of my attraction to RF's music is the amazing unreachability (for me) of it in a technical sense... anyway - he rules and many artists out out a couple duds i guess (except for zappa) peace and loop away you freaks andre' (nj) > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 18:50:16 +0100 From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Michael Pycraft Hughes, PhD) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Let The Power Saw Message-Id: <<16322.199707121750@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Bryan: >> If you want to hear him (Fripp) shred on disc I would recommend the >>aforementioned live League of Gentlemen CD or the live Sylvian/Fripp Band CD >>"Damage" (the latter features Soundscapes also). NJ N'Dre: >thanks Bryan - i've always wondered about the Sylvian -Fripp discs - not >much mention of them here... but on your wordz i think i'll pick it >up...today i have a spree planned, so... I only have The First Day, but it is something of a classic, certainly better than recent KC stuff... probably the best example, to me, of what can be achieved with looping is the long (6 min!) play-out solo on "Firepower"; if he'd wanted he could have looped the bassline too, so I just look at it as a looper and a drummer. A classic. The playout Frippertronics solo peice is neat, having the advantage of being relatively short and retaining its novelty value. A great album. "Firepower" is also a great track for inducing a desire of Sustainer systems... Michael /-------------------------------------------------------------------\ |Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes | Tel:0141 330 5979 | Fax: 0141 330 4907 | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |Bioelectronics, Rankine Bldg, Glasgow University, Glasgow, G12 8QQ | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| | http://www.elec.gla.ac.uk/groups/bio/Electrokinetics/main.html | \-------------------------------------------------------------------/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:02:38 -0700 From: Warren Sirota < To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: A couple of responses Message-ID: <<33C7C6BC.2BFD3ED@wsdesigns.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I wrote > >In this theater performance, I asked to be billed as a "Sound > Sculptor". > >I also considered going for "Performance Artist". > And Michael replied > Works for Laurie Anderson. Has she ever been categorised some other > way? > Yeah, but she was never a guitar (semi-)virtuoso with a guitar virtuoso ego and identity to deal with. But perhaps it's time to shelve some of that... Anyway, I wouldn't characterise some of her records as performance art - most of them fall into the "intellectual rock" category, in my book (e.g. Strange Angels, Mr. Heartbreak). The Mr. Heartbreak tour, with Adrian Belew et. al, which I was privileged to attend a show of, was a multimedia rock show with performance art elements. > More from Michael: > Absolutely. There's also a great deal of satisfaction from writing a > peice. It seems to me that improvisation is often an excuse for not > learning material! :) Or, for me, for not writing it! > The argument I've heard is that only through improv can we see the > soul of > the performer, but in speech we can often put our most profound > thoughts > across when given time to reflect and put them down on paper, rather > than > standing up and just talking. I'l also bet the most moving poetry is > not, > by-and-large, written off the cuff (please, no-one mention James > Joyce). > Well, I love improvisation, and loop-based improv is especially hypnotizing. I agree with the quote that it can (at least sometimes) give us a window into the performer's soul. However, that is only of concern to certain niche audiences. Most prefer an "entertainment experience", which means tighter structure, clean transitions and attention to pacing. Sometimes I want to cater to this and sometimes not. > Chris said: > >This leads me to question what the FUNCTION(s) of loop music > is.......In > >any case, the rock concert performed a > >function -- and it seems to me that this was initially driven, or at > least > >facilitated by the TECHNOLOGY. > Matthias responded: > You mean we are about at the point where The Who came in: The > technology > was available and the function was invented or came out of the history > of > the society. Loop technology is available and we are discussing its > purpose. The Who probably did not discuss it as we do, but this makes > part > of the changes of history. > The Who's function was nothing new - to provide music for dancing, mainly so that young single people could engage in pre-mating rituals. Providing music for dancing is a pretty ancient social function. All the Who did was make it louder and more closely tied in to the chemicals raging in teenagers' bodies, something that Elvis and his musical progenitors also did in spades. The only aspect of the Who's technology that was innovative was their view of it as disposable and their choreography. (BTW, I was a serious Who fan in the early days and still respect and enjoy their music. That's not the point here). > We have a new idea here which is called JantArte (Jantar means > supper). We > invite for a chinese veg meal (body), a speach (mind) and a artistic > presentation (soul), pillows on the floor. It will happen monthly in > the > Centro de Cultura Chinesa. I will tell you how it goes. > Is that New-Agey? > That sounds like a good setting. Creating the setting is a great thing. Perhaps loop music can work as an analogue to dance music for older people (is anyone on this list under 25?) Whereas rock (functionally speaking) is pre-mating music for social rituals among young single people, maybe loop music can occur in situations which encourage social interaction (which is frequently rather limited) among mature, working adults who may have families - maybe there's a new kind of social ritual that could be created around this. Warren Sirota -------------------------------------------------------- Netscape Navigator users: access to your favorite Web sites with a single keystroke: http://wsdesigns.com/sextant/ Windows musicians: learn songs and solos from any audio CD: http://wsdesigns.com/presto/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jul 97 13:57:14 -0600 From: "mmason"< To: < Subject: Re: A couple of Responses Message-Id: <<9707128687.AA868734628@fsmtp.faulkcomp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Warren Sirota Wrote > is anyone on this list under 25? I'm 15. Jay or Boris mmason@faulkcomp.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 15:39:02 -0400 (EDT) From: BlkSwan03@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Let The Power Fall Message-ID: <<970712153901_41385357@emout18.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 7/12/97 1:04:29 PM, you wrote: <<<< Thanks for the good info - Would you happen to know how extensively these devices were manufactured, and are re-issues still being made by EML, as the VCS3 still is? Was it a megbucks gizmo for back then? Is it now a megabucks antique? >> Actually, the company is called EMS (Electronic Music Systems) and is/was an English company. They made a few different products, but none in huge quantities. I own a Synthi AKS (not for sale) which was similar to the VCS3 but came in a small kind of plastic suitcase. It also came with a keyboard (no moving parts) and a somewhat primitive but useful sequencer. All this fit inside the case. These were used by Tangerine Dream on the early (mid seventies) records like "Phaedra" and "Rubycon". Klaus Shulze used several and still does. Brian Eno also uses an AKS. He says they are the best for creating weird insect noises. Very true. You can make some incredibly weird noises with it. It's a little harder to play melodicly due to oscillator drift, but it can be done. There's lots of tweaking possibilities. I never did a real lot with external instruments being run thru it. This would give you access to the filters and modulation I believe. My AKS unfortunately needs help to put it back to spec. I believe there are people that do this, some associated with EMS, but I've not been able to get anyone to answer their phone or return messages. Not much of a confidence builder. If anyone out there has experience with any shops that know how to repair these, let me know. EMS still operates in England. Mostly, I think they refurbish old instruments to resell. I don't know prices tho. In the Keyboard Vintage Synthesizers book, they go into more detail about EMS and these synths. Let's see........they made about 550 VCS3's and 850 AKS's. (according to the book) and used ones seem to fetch anywhere from $300.00 to $1500.00. Jim (Portland,OR.) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 15:51:57 -0400 (EDT) From: SoundFNR@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Amplifiers for looping Message-ID: <<970712155155_-1695032515@emout13.mail.aol.com> Part One What makes a good amplification setup for loops in a live context ? (any recomendations?) Guitar amp for sound character. Or a PA type system to accurately produce a multi-layered effect. Stereo? Part Two How does the sound 'quality' effect what the player does with the loop? Andy (UK) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 16:58:42 -0400 From: Michael Peters < To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" < Subject: RE: "Let the Flower Eat Paul"... Message-ID: <<199707121658_MC2-1ABA-F22C@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Pete said, >They were all inspired and flawed enough to work well as both homages-to and >satires-of RF. Envision lovely floating waves of liquid guitar a la LTPF, >interrupted every few minutes by a (looped) mistake, like this - >Bzzzzzzzzz.......EEeyyyyahhhhhhhh........CLANK!!! >Bzzzzzzzzz.......EEeyyyyahhhhhhhh........CLANK!!! >Bzzzzzzzzz.......EEeyyyyahhhhhhhh........CLANK!!! >Bzzzzzzzzz.......EEeyyyyahhhhhhhh........CLANK!!! ROFL!!! ___________ Michael Peters http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters HOP - Fractals in Motion ..."the only screen saver you'll ever want" http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/hop.htm Support the Warr Guitar Defense Fund http://home.earthlink.net/~greendog/warrfund.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 14:26:24 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself < To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Age...? Message-ID: < Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > Warren Sirota Wrote > > > is anyone on this list under 25? 23 as of this past Thursday... --Andre ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 18:24:02 -0400 From: illoyd@intrlink.com (Ian///Shakespace) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Amplifiers for looping Message-Id: < Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Part One > What makes a good amplification setup for loops in a >live context ? (any recomendations?) pretty much anything i guess... whatever gives you the sound you want. sure, you can run in stereo, but we've gone round and round about this on sound-l before... your choice as to whether on not its worth it to lug around dual setups. there are also the obvious splitting setups. a friend has the following: guitar -> fx pedals -> a/b/y splitter -> a side to amp / b-side to jamman di to the pa. >Part Two > How does the sound 'quality' effect what >the player does with the loop? huh? feedback... Ian///Shakespace www.intrlink.com/~illoyd ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 18:22:53 -0500 From: Randy Jones < To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, < Subject: Re: A couple of Responses Message-Id: <<3.0.32.19970712182251.007341bc@texas.net> Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" At 01:57 PM 7/12/97 -0600, mmason wrote: > > > Warren Sirota Wrote > > > is anyone on this list under 25? > > I'm 15. > > Jay or Boris > mmason@faulkcomp.com > Hey I was 15 thirty three years ago. No one is older than me here!!! Randy Jones ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 20:07:51 -0400 (EDT) From: ANET@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Amplifiers for looping Message-ID: <<970712200750_-1695011252@emout17.mail.aol.com> If you are using an Acoustic guitar, the Crate Amp is the finest on the market today. The model number is 125D, couple that with a martin thinline pickup and a jamman, se ya later, because everyone will space out when they hear your sound. Guaranteed. After playing the acoutisic thing for so long, I find that electric guitar amps are missing treble. What do I mean? Most electric guitar cabs don't run horns or piezo, so yes you can turn the tone on the start to treble and pump up the treble on the amp, but you do not get the overtones that an may be experienced on an acoustic with the setup listed above. In fact my son, played the strat through the Crate and preferred it. Good Luck. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 17:10:00 -0700 From: Kim Flint < To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: A couple of responses Message-Id: < Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >That sounds like a good setting. Creating the setting is a great thing. >Perhaps loop music can work as an analogue to dance music for older >people (is anyone on this list under 25?) Whereas rock (functionally >speaking) is pre-mating music for social rituals among young single >people, maybe loop music can occur in situations which encourage social >interaction (which is frequently rather limited) among mature, working >adults who may have families - maybe there's a new kind of social ritual >that could be created around this. > >Warren Sirota 27 here, but still possessing a far greater preference for looping in pre-mating music for social rituals among young single people, preferably in noisy, crowded, alcohol-and-drug-laden environments with excessive volumes, as opposed to serene family oriented settings for mature adults...... The discussion about "What do we call it" is certainly interesting, but I think the "it" in question is not the whole of "loop music" but just the "ambient-experimental improvisations employing loops" category. "Loop music" includes a lot of other music, some of which even has well recognized names and well known and populated venues for its performance! resisting oppression by the ambient tyranny, kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com --------------------------------