------------------------------
Loopers-Delight-d Digest				Volume 97 : Issue 114

Today's Topics:
  Midi looping                          [ Neil Goldstein <ngold@imagina.com> ]
  Age (of Sagitarius)                   [ "kim corbet" <kcorbet@mail.smu.edu> ]
  Plex                                  [ verner@infinitesound.com ]
  Re: Plex                              [ Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com> ]
  Re: Midi looping                      [ Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com> ]
  Re: Age (of Aquarius)                 [ fred marshall <fred@fredmarshall.co ]
  Re: Amplifiers for looping            [ Anton Chovit <antonc@earthlink.net> ]
  Re: Amplifiers for looping            [ Paolo Valladolid <pvallado@wayneswo ]
  Re: Midi looping                      [ Neil Goldstein <ngold@imagina.com> ]
  Re: Midi looping                      [ "kim corbet" <kcorbet@mail.smu.edu> ]
  First gig                             [ "Mikell D. Nelson" <mnelson@dmans.c ]
  Re: Midi looping                      [ "Robert S. Carter" <rsc4@hmivax.hum ]
  Re[2]: Midi looping                   [ miguel.barella@poyry.com.br (MAT) ]
  RE: MIDI looping -- MAX & The Aphex   [ David Kirkdorffer <DKirkdorffer@exa ]
  Re: Midi looping                      [ "Robert S. Carter" <rsc4@hmivax.hum ]
  Re[2]: Midi looping                   [ miguel.barella@poyry.com.br (MAT) ]

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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 14:52:45 -0700
From: Neil Goldstein <ngold@imagina.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Midi looping
Message-Id: <v03102800afeefc0f4884@[204.130.255.93]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

As a long time midi user and looper I recently moved over to Logic Audio
for a few key reasons (related to looping):

Real time tweaking of all sound parmeters without stopping. Cubase has this
too.

Unique to Logic: A mode in which you can track as many takes as you like in
"loop" mode, where the previous takes are muted, and you are automatically
moved to the next track, so you have a virtual looper/multi track. After
recording all the takes you want, you can unmute, quantize, change sound
parameters, etc. without stopping. This feature alone sold me on Logic,
despite its reputation as having a steep learning curve.

Unfortunately you can't do the same recording with audio, but what audio
tracks are already recorded can loop along with the midi. And the sample
editor makes it easy to find loops in 'free improvised' material in real
time in a similar manner as Recycle does.

Any more questions or comments on this, shoot.





Neil
ngold@imagina.com
Portland, OR USA

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 97 18:58 CDT
From: "kim corbet"  <kcorbet@mail.smu.edu>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Age (of Sagitarius)
Message-Id: <m0wnv10-000FgcC@post.cis.smu.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

> Looping demographics! Wow, this is great!  :-)

oh, alright, jesus...I don't think I said in my bio...

the spare kim is 44, but doesn't feel a day over NEXT friday.

.....and I drive an '89 civic and my new wardrobe is from Target.

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 21:40:17 -0400
From: verner@infinitesound.com
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Plex
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970714214017.00685be4@infinitesound.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I'm an Aquarius - now let's stop all this age related nonsense and get on
with the music stuff? OK.

Now did I miss something? What's the procedure for getting the upgrade, how
much does it cost, do we swap chips, etc? 

J. Arif Verner
Infinite Sound Studio
http://www.infinitesound.com/

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 22:26:55 -0700
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Plex
Message-Id: <v03102802aff0b935b37c@[207.171.196.51]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 9:40 PM -0400 7/14/97, verner@infinitesound.com wrote:
>I'm an Aquarius - now let's stop all this age related nonsense and get on
>with the music stuff? OK.

Even though I'm a scorpio, I'll try to reply:

>Now did I miss something? What's the procedure for getting the upgrade, how
>much does it cost, do we swap chips, etc?
>
>J. Arif Verner

All of this will be Oberheim's policies, which I don't really know in any
detail, so I'll leave to them to describe. Your best bet is to contact them
directly and ask. Their customer service person is:  Dean Fouts
<dfouts@gibson.com>, Phone is 510-635-9633.

It will involve swapping two eproms.

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 22:41:34 -0700
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Midi looping
Message-Id: <v03102804aff0bb5f35ad@[207.171.196.51]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 2:52 PM -0700 7/13/97, Neil Goldstein wrote:
>As a long time midi user and looper I recently moved over to Logic Audio
>for a few key reasons (related to looping):
>
>Real time tweaking of all sound parmeters without stopping. Cubase has this
>too.
>
>Unique to Logic: A mode in which you can track as many takes as you like in
>"loop" mode, where the previous takes are muted, and you are automatically
>moved to the next track, so you have a virtual looper/multi track. After
>recording all the takes you want, you can unmute, quantize, change sound
>parameters, etc. without stopping. This feature alone sold me on Logic,
>despite its reputation as having a steep learning curve.

Do you think this would be useful to actually create, manipulate, and
generally perform looping in a live context? (making the process the
performance, rather than a final result) Are the realtime tools available
compelling enough to make this interesting? Or is it more geared to
composing and recording in the studio?   (same questions for the previously
mentioned MOTU Freestyle)

One thing I really like about the jamman/echoplex/boomerang style of looper
is the immediacy of it - they are very easy and intuitive for improvising
and performing. Are any of the midi looping tools out there well geared to
that sort of approach? I'd really like to experiment with this more.

kim


______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 06:44:44 -0800
From: fred marshall <fred@fredmarshall.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Age (of Aquarius)
Message-ID: <33CB8CD5.1C89@fredmarshall.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Michael Peters wrote:
> 
> ok, maybe this will help to end the 'Age' thread:
> 
> The average age of us is 33.4 (that is, the average age of the 48 loopers
> who have their bio on our website, and specified their age).
> 
> <g>
> 
> btw, I'm 43.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

- hope this doesn't throw a hitch into the math . . . but this one is
still driving a 1938 Memphis (meat suit) . . .

-  btw, in a fit of gererosity i wrote:

- >>- only boring people can be bored . . . (by anything)

- somene answered:

"You've never been bored by ANYTHING?  What an excruciatingly relentless
parade of excitement your life must be...you need to watch more
television,
my friend "

IT IS ! ! !  (even the television machine)

- The suggestion "- don't worry . . . play music YOU want to hear" . .
.  has worked so far - every sound we make is as likely to be our last
as it is to be the next to last . . . and messing around with the
silence carries its own responsibilities, just as when you make a mark
on a perfectly clean piece of paper you're taking on picasso and the
egyptians and the Tibetans and . . . not to fear . . . they're good
company - as are bird and bud and trane and diz and all the people in
the world who make sounds/art because "they can't help theirselfs" . . . 

"I used to think that musicians were real disciplined to be able to
practice a lot and get good on their instruments . . . then i married
one and it didn't take no time at all to figure out that they just can't
help theirselfs" - Appalachin woman

I'd like to invite everyone on this side of the oceans and mountains to
come hear our trio (marshall arts), loops and all, at the Monterey Jazz
Festival, September 20, 1997 . . .  and also to hear the streaming
sample (no waiting) on our site at     www.fredmarshall.com    (my son,
joshi, now 25 is the one playing the alto and tenor at the same time)

- as to the age thing, only the temporary meat suit is interested in
that kind of thing and after all, that's the same one that has the house
key in its hand when YOU want to get into the car . . .   sometimes i
wish i could get the poor thing some more ram . . .


- drive crazy . . .  *


mmmmmmm



* - a hell's angel friend decided that was his version of "break a leg"

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 10:31:04 +0100
From: Anton Chovit <antonc@earthlink.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Amplifiers for looping
Message-ID: <33CB42C9.4F3@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>I'm using two EV-12L speakers in my stereo guitar rig and I love it.  >I'd
>highly recommend the speakers to anyone....very musical and "guitar"
>sounding. 

I was using two closed back (ported) cabinets loaded with EV 12L's, and
they sounded really good.  But then I replaced the 12L's with Celestion
25 watt greenbacks, and now they sound awsome!!  

I feel that the 12L's are too full range for guitar. They sound sterile
and flat compared to the warm, thick, middy sound of the greenbacks.  

Compared side to side, the greenbacks sounded much more like an electric
guitar.  The down side is that the greenbacks don't work as well as PA
speaker if you are running other instuments through the looper(s).  

The workaround we've found (my brother Chris is a greenback convert
too!) is to patch the instuments into a mixer (minimum: 4 buss) with the
looper inputs fed from the effects sends (preferabley pre-fader) and the
looper outputs fed back into the main inputs of the board.

Busses 1 & 2 feed the greenbacks (all guitar sounds and loops) and
busses 3 & 4 feed PA cabinets (other instruments and effects).  We use
rackmount tube guitar amplifiers for the greenbacks and highpower solid
state amps for the PA.  With more busses, and loopers (we use 5) the
individual intruments and loopers can be placed spatially/speaker.

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:42:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paolo Valladolid <pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
To: antonc@earthlink.net
Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Amplifiers for looping
Message-Id: <199707152242.PAA29057@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

How about the bass players in the group?  Any comments?


Paolo Valladolid
 ---------------------------------------------------------------
|Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list	|\ 
|for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments 			| \
 ----------------------------------------------------------------  |
\ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info		 \ |
 \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html		  \| 
  -----------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 20:48:54 -0700
From: Neil Goldstein <ngold@imagina.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Midi looping
Message-Id: <v03102800aff09c17a29a@[204.130.255.73]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Do you think this would be useful to actually create, manipulate, and
>generally perform looping in a live context? (making the process the
>performance, rather than a final result) Are the realtime tools available
>compelling enough to make this interesting? Or is it more geared to
>composing and recording in the studio?   (same questions for the previously
>mentioned MOTU Freestyle)

Personally, these tools are most beneficial for composing and recording in
more structured ways, and nurturing ideas which may later be performed, the
last being sort of a nice definition for "practicing".

OTOH, The combination of (in my case JamMan) a loop device and audio
sequencer provide the best of both worlds, enabling for example, syncing of
the loop device via midi (where midi sets the loop length simply through
defining a click or playing an instrumental groove; and/or capturing the
"acoustic" loop created in the device to the computer, for further audio
processing and adding midi tracks, or extracting a "groove" track from your
playing to be applied to other tracks. Effects, synth patches, sampling
CDs, acoustic instruments...the mind boggles at the vast colors at our
fingers for affordable prices.

The exciting thing about this stuff is the many possibilities opened up by
marrying midi, computers, and the evolving stand-alone devices we talk
about here. The vast alchemy of that which we create and that which we
discover.


>One thing I really like about the jamman/echoplex/boomerang style of looper
>is the immediacy of it - they are very easy and intuitive for improvising
>and performing. Are any of the midi looping tools out there well geared to
>that sort of approach? I'd really like to experiment with this more.
>

I think the difference is whether one is using the computer sequencer vs a
stand-alone hardware sequencer. The computer stuff is more powerful and
easily visible, but has that layer of complexity and overhead introduced by
the computer, that is not performance friendly.


I've read of techno bands who use computer sequencers on stage and vary
their perfomances with these tools. It does take a lot of preparation and
having Plan B available. Sounds like too much computing, planning and not
enough playing for my taste. Which brings us full circle back to our
friendly real-time loop devices :-)






Neil
ngold@imagina.com
Portland, OR USA

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 97 00:31 CDT
From: "kim corbet"  <kcorbet@mail.smu.edu>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Midi looping
Message-Id: <m0woMgQ-000FhQC@post.cis.smu.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

> >Do you think this would be useful to actually create, manipulate, and
> >generally perform looping in a live context? 
..........in a comatheatre concert ("The Lorca Project") presented this
weekend in Dallas, I'll be using a boomerang and jambooty to capture bits
of live and recorded music (including prerecorded looped material), sound 
effects, live and recorded wordplay, etc. coming at me from 3 improvisational 
sources.  My personal station also includes DAT tapes, CDs and processed 
acoustic sources (talking drum, occarina, melodica, etc.)...all of which may    
be looped for beds or lingering melodies.

This complex sound environment supports dance, video and projections...nothing 
involving the loopers is planned...my success will be based on experience and 
reflexes that, with luck, will result in split-second timing that will SEEM 
like a tightly controled performance.

That attitude spreads to the rest of the performance.  We have rehearsed staged 
events that will become tools, like the loopers, to be added and manipulated as
the "need" arises and, again, to the audience, place everything else (intended 
or circumstantial) in meaningful relief.  Beyond that, an opening and ending
give an exacting form to what is usually a totally free performance ethic.

Tools and toys...live or studio...fun fun fun.

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 01:55:13 -0500
From: "Mikell D. Nelson" <mnelson@dmans.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: First gig
Message-ID: <33CC7051.C73@dmans.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi, gang. Just wanted to tell about my first solo gig and my first
REAL looping gig. Sure I've played gigs with looping devices around. The
bass player in my band uses a Boomerang, but it isn't prominent or
obvious; it's important, but we could actually play without it, and did
so in the past. This gig was a set I performed at a local (Dallas,TX)
club called Club Dada. The band consisted of me, my guitar, amp, Yamaha
GW-10 effects processor, and a Boomerang. This setting is a regular open
mic happening that typically alternates bands and solos or duos. The
bands are typically rock while the solos are usually folkies, so my
electric, instrumental, loop thing was definitely not a sure bet.
However, the crowd response couldn't have been better; there was
generous applause after each tune. It was really gratifying. I plan to
return in a few weeks.
  The irony of the evening came with the band that followed me. At the
beginning of my set I did a little spiel about nothing being
pre-recorded; I reassured the audience that what they were hearing was
all performed live right before their eyes, uh, ears. They seemed to get
it. Well, how was I to know that the following band, a power trio with a
lead singer, relied heavily on pre-recorded tapes that the sound man ran
for them? The guitar player actually handled it well by saying right up
front, "Well, our band uses lots of pre-recorded material... but we
recorded it."
  For those who haven't caught this before, my style is not ambient at
all, but wide ranging pop/rock instrumentals. Finger picked to shuffle
to bluesy to jazz tinged to heavy to noise. I'm now excited about
performing again and incorporating some of the hints about involving the
audience that I picked up here.
  Since I have played in bands my whole life, I am relieved to have the
first solo gig behind me. I was getting a little mental over it.

Motley

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 12:12:38 +0000
From: "Robert S. Carter" <rsc4@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Midi looping
Message-id: <33CCBAB4.315@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Neil Goldstein wrote:

> 
> OTOH, The combination of (in my case JamMan) a loop device and audio
> sequencer provide the best of both worlds, enabling for example, syncing of
> the loop device via midi (where midi sets the loop length simply through
> defining a click or playing an instrumental groove; and/or capturing the
> "acoustic" loop created in the device to the computer, for further audio
> processing and adding midi tracks, or extracting a "groove" track from your
> playing to be applied to other tracks.


Neil's observation pretty much sums up my idea of MIDI looping. I do a
lot in the studio with the JamMan slaved to my sequencer and then
capture the loops to tape or sampler. But there's more to it, I'm big on
MIDI syncronized synth arpeggiation and rhythmic LFOs. I've got a Nord
Lead synth which I can get up to 4 parts of syncronized rhythmic noises
going, the key being the external MIDI clock source.  In the studio I
usually use the computer sequencer for a clock even if not sequencing.
In performance, however, I do one of two things and sometimes use a MIDI
patchbay to switch between the following. The first option is using the
JamMAn as the master clock. The one disadvantage with that is that if
you aren't in loop mode or in loop mode but have no loop going there is
no clock transmitted and the synth is now lost. So the other option is a
portable clock source- I use a MIDI solutions "pedal controller", a
small $60 device that allows you to tap tempo and send MIDI clock. So I
send that clock to both the JamMan and the synth and the two are as one.
Let's say I start an arpeggiated pattern on the synth (synced to clock),
I start recording a loop on the JamMan and what pops out is a perfectly
timed replicate of the pattern. I can then use that as a backdrop for
more syncronized synth patterns and noises.

Concerning the Nord Lead synth in live performance (no sequencer), I use
a little trick to accomplish what I geuss can be considered a particular
type of MIDI looping. The Nord has four buttons for each of the
available patches. If I play a patch (again I'm usually talking about
arpeggiated patterns or rhythmic LFOs), hold down the sustain pedal and
switch to another patch, the original patch is held permenantly until I
switch back to it and give it a note off with the sustain pedal. This is
an advatageous use of what is familiarly known as a MIDI stuck note
(usually a very bad thing). So by strategic latching of the patches I
can get a four part loop going all synced up with each other and with
the JamMan. Then I move on to one of my non-MIDI analogue synths looped
with the non-MIDI Vortex synced to the very innaccurate clock in my
head.

BOB.

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 14:38:23 +0400
From: miguel.barella@poyry.com.br (MAT)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, 
    "Robert S. Carter" <rsc4@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu> 
Subject: Re[2]: Midi looping
Message-ID: <00002A1F.@poyry.com.br>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: cc:Mail note part

Robert S. Carter:

>So I send that clock to both the JamMan and the synth and the two are 
>as one. Let's say I start an arpeggiated pattern on the synth (synced 
>to clock), I start recording a loop on the JamMan and what pops out is 
>a perfectly timed replicate of the pattern. I can then use that as a 
>backdrop for more syncronized synth patterns and noises.

How do you manage the annoying noise (sounds like a small glitch) that 
appears next to the loop boundary when the JamMan is receiving MIDI 
clock?

I tried to get rid of it with all kinds of tricks I could think of but 
did not succeed.

Miguel
     

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 20:38:00 -0400
From: David Kirkdorffer <DKirkdorffer@exapps.com>
To: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: RE: MIDI looping -- MAX & The Aphex Twin
Message-ID: <30C4F9E5EBE1D0118B760000C0DD100F0E2053@mail.exapps.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

Kim Wrote:

Other than that I would suggest using Max, which is a
graphical/object-oriented midi programming environment for the mac. It's
a
great tool, created at IRCAM in France and sold by Opcode. I think the
sample applications that max even comes with even includes a midi delay
and
a looper. I think it would be fairly easy to create a powerful midi
looping
application with max. You could even design a nice big, custom gui. I'd
be
surprised if someone hadn't already done this, actually.

> For those that care -- I think this is what Richard James is using
> nowadays to create his brand of music.
> 
> David Kirkdorffer
> 
> 

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 11:38:11 +0000
From: "Robert S. Carter" <rsc4@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Midi looping
Message-id: <33CE0422.1043@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Y'know I never really heard the glitch so much until I went home after
reading your post and listened carefully. Now it's gonna bug the hell
out of me. Thanks a lot :). Some loops it's not so bad but yeah it can
be annoying.  Once layered with the multiple loops I get going on the
Nord synth I think it's barely noticable (or at least it used to be). I
geuss I might reconsider ways use the JamMan as the master. The problem
is I need clock before recording a loop and the JamMan won't do that.
But now I'm thinking I could record a blank loop to generate clock from
the JamMan and then use punch-in mode to record the now synced synth.
I'll have to try this tonite. BOB. 

MAT wrote:
> 
> Robert S. Carter:
> 
> >So I send that clock to both the JamMan and the synth and the two are
> >as one. Let's say I start an arpeggiated pattern on the synth (synced
> >to clock), I start recording a loop on the JamMan and what pops out is
> >a perfectly timed replicate of the pattern. I can then use that as a
> >backdrop for more syncronized synth patterns and noises.
> 
> How do you manage the annoying noise (sounds like a small glitch) that
> appears next to the loop boundary when the JamMan is receiving MIDI
> clock?
> 
> I tried to get rid of it with all kinds of tricks I could think of but
> did not succeed.
> 
> Miguel
>

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 14:10:45 +0400
From: miguel.barella@poyry.com.br (MAT)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, 
    "Robert S. Carter" <rsc4@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu> 
Subject: Re[2]: Midi looping
Message-ID: <00002B96.@poyry.com.br>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: cc:Mail note part

     Sorry for showing you this JamMan very nice "feature"...
     
     Keep me informed if you find a workaround.
     
     I am also including the explanation I got from Bob Sellon:
     
     
     Miguel,
     
     There are two possible causes for the noise I can think of; one you 
     can   fix the other you can't.
     
     When Jamman is slaved to an external MIDI clock it determines the end 
     of   the loop by itself based on the tempo of the clock and the number 
     of   beats selected on the front panel. If the operator tries to end 
     the loop   manually, the resulting loop will very likely be shorter 
     than it should   be. When the loop is too short, Jamman restarts the 
     loop twice: once when   the end of the loop (time) is detected and 
     once when the correct number   of MIDI clocks has come in. The 
     solution is to let Jamman close the loop   by itself (DON'T tap a 
     second time). This will get the loops size to it's   best fit.
     
     The second cause is based on the jitter on the incoming MIDI clocks 
     and   the resolution of Jamman itself. At best, Jamman can lock in a 
     loop size   to within half a millisecond (512us). The problem is that 
     most MIDI clock   sources have jitter (timing variations) in the same 
     neighborhood. After   the loop time is locked in, the priority in 
     Jamman is to stay in perfect   sync with the incoming MIDI clock. The 
     problem is that the combined half   millisecond resolution of Jamman 
     and the jitter on the incoming clock   result in the actual size of 
     the loop changing very slightly every time   through. As the loop size 
     changes, Jamman either shortens the loop or   replays the very 
     beginning of the loop to compensate resulting in   potential clicks 
     and pops. With the PC itself being slaved the jitter   gets worse and 
     so do the clicks and pops.
     
     As I said, there is currently no work-around for this other than, as 
     you   said, not playing anything at the loop edge. The only other 
     thing I can   suggest (which is equally klugey), is to place something 
     percussive at   the splice point which will tend to mask the noise. I 
     am looking at the   problem, however, and will let you know if I come 
     up with anything.
     
     If anyone out there has any suggestions on how to deal with this, I'd  
      love to hear it.
     
     Bob Sellon
     Lexicon/Stec
     bsellon@lexicon.com
     
     
     Regards,
     
     Miguel
     


___________________________ Separador de Resposta ______________________________
Assunto: Re: Midi looping
Autor:  "Robert S. Carter" <rsc4@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu> na INTERNET
Data:    17/07/1900 11:38


Y'know I never really heard the glitch so much until I went home after 
reading your post and listened carefully. Now it's gonna bug the hell 
out of me. Thanks a lot :). Some loops it's not so bad but yeah it can 
be annoying.  Once layered with the multiple loops I get going on the 
Nord synth I think it's barely noticable (or at least it used to be). I 
geuss I might reconsider ways use the JamMan as the master. The problem 
is I need clock before recording a loop and the JamMan won't do that. 
But now I'm thinking I could record a blank loop to generate clock from 
the JamMan and then use punch-in mode to record the now synced synth. 
I'll have to try this tonite. BOB. 
     
MAT wrote:
> 
> Robert S. Carter:
> 
> >So I send that clock to both the JamMan and the synth and the two are 
> >as one. Let's say I start an arpeggiated pattern on the synth (synced 
> >to clock), I start recording a loop on the JamMan and what pops out is 
> >a perfectly timed replicate of the pattern. I can then use that as a
> >backdrop for more syncronized synth patterns and noises. 
> 
> How do you manage the annoying noise (sounds like a small glitch) that 
> appears next to the loop boundary when the JamMan is receiving MIDI
> clock?
> 
> I tried to get rid of it with all kinds of tricks I could think of but 
> did not succeed.
> 
> Miguel
>
     

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