------------------------------
Loopers-Delight-d Digest				Volume 97 : Issue 117

Today's Topics:
  Re: jamman                            [ "Siobhan Canty" <siocanty@cfpa.org> ]
  RE: Re[4]: Midi looping               [ "Hogan, Greg" <GHogan@lexicon.com> ]
  Warren Cuccurullo CD                  [ "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.c ]
  Re: Warren Cuccurullo CD              [ MiqSk8@aol.com ]
  Re: Warren Cuccurullo CD       
<x-rich>------------------------------

Loopers-Delight-d Digest				Volume 97 : Issue 117


Today's Topics:

  Re: jamman                            [ "Siobhan Canty" <<siocanty@cfpa.org> ]

  RE: Re[4]: Midi looping               [ "Hogan, Greg" <<GHogan@lexicon.com> ]

  Warren Cuccurullo CD                  [ "T.W. Hartnett" <<hartnett.t@apple.c ]

  Re: Warren Cuccurullo CD              [ MiqSk8@aol.com ]

  Re: Warren Cuccurullo CD              [ "T.W. Hartnett" <<hartnett.t@apple.c ]

  Re: MIDI looping                      [ Charles Cohen <<ccohen@voicenet.com> ]

  Re: jamman                            [ John Pollock <<johnpollock@delphi.co ]

  live loopage for the sake of art wit  [ james rhodes <<sharkey@texas.net> ]

  Re: jamman                            [ matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias  ]

  Re: MIDI looping                      [ matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias  ]

  Re: MIDI looping                      [ Kim Corbet <<kcorbet@post.cis.smu.ed ]

  Re: jamman                            [ "Siobhan Canty" <<siocanty@cfpa.org> ]

  Re: live loopage for the sake of art  [ BlkSwan03@aol.com ]

  Re: MIDI looping                      [ Paolo Valladolid <<pvallado@wayneswo ]


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:11:36 -0700

From: "Siobhan Canty" <<siocanty@cfpa.org>

To: <<Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>

Subject: Re: jamman

Message-Id: <<199707211429.KAA01455@sauron.bivwood.com>

Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BC95BE.79092AA0"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



Hi...I first visited the Loopers Delight webpage last week and 

appreciated your input. ÊLast year, I bought a JamMan - got a great deal on a demo 

model. ÊUnfortunately, it came with nothing...no manual, no chip, no pedal, no 

nuthin'...I was wondering if you could send me information on what is available. ÊI am 

particularly interested in getting the manual as I think there are many functions that I

am not taking advantage of...


Unlike everyone else on that site, I don't play guitar ...

actually I do but only so I don't have to sing by myself. I am a classically trained 

vocalist and a composer of classical and non-classical music. ÊI have been writing

vocal compositions for the JamMan for about a year now and just did my first concert with the Jam Man at the Black Cat Night Club in Washington, DC a couple of weeks ago. ÊÊThe pieces are purely vocal, with building harmonies and rhythm sections (Although the sound is not like Bobby McFerrin's, the methods are - only the pieces are built in a live setting, not the studio) ÊPeople just went nuts over "the magic box". ÊMy next project is a

multi-movement cantata for vocalist and JamMan. ÊI think the form of the cantata will 

lend itself to overcoming the JamMan's limitations (transposing pitch, style, and 

tempo) by using "recitative" sections to bring it back down, make the changes, and 

then build it up in a different way. ÊJust starting on that this week...


Anyhoo, this is probably more information than you care to have but I thought I would 

let you know that there are people using the JamMan in many different ways.

Sorry to hear the product was discontinued - I think its fab! Ê


Thanks for your help on this. ÊInfo can be sent to:

Siobhan Canty

3235 Walbridge Place, NW

Washington, DC Ê20010

e-mail "<underline>siocanty@cfpa.org</underline>"


Thanks again!






----------

> From: Hogan, Greg <<<underline>GHogan@lexicon.com</underline>>

> To: Loopers-Delight <<<underline>Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com</underline>>

> Subject: RE: Re[2]: Midi looping

> Date: Thursday, July 17, 1997 1:03 PM

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Ê----------

> From: ÊHogan, Greg

> Sent: ÊThursday, July 17, 1997 9:09 AM

> To: ÊLoopers-Delight

> Subject: ÊRE: Re[2]: Midi looping

> 

> Miguel asked "How do you manage the annoying noise (sounds like a small ÊÊ

> glitch) that appears next to the loop boundary when the JamMan is ÊÊ

> receiving MIDI clock?

> 

> I tried to get rid of it with all kinds of tricks I could think of but

> did not succeed."

> 

> Miguel,

> 

> There must be something wrong with your JAMMAN. ÊEven if a loop is not ÊÊ

> spliced together perfectly there should be no added noise at the splice ÊÊ

> point. ÊCertainly if the end and begining of a loop are not either silent ÊÊ

> or matched perfectly you will here a glitch but this is not an added ÊÊ

> noise it is only what you here when you jump between two different sounds ÊÊ

> or tones.

> Either you are not matching the end and beginning loops or you have a ÊÊ

> broken JAMMAN.

> 

> If you record a loop of silence you should find is that at the ÊÊ

> end/beginning of the loop(what I would call the splice point) is actually ÊÊ

> more silent then the rest of the loop. ÊIf this is not the case and there ÊÊ

> is noise at the splice point therte is a problem with the machine.

> 

> Please let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything that ÊÊ

> I can do for you.

> 

> 

> Best regards,

> 

> Greg Hogan

> Lexicon Customer Service

> Phone 617-280-0372

> FAX 617-280-0499

> email: <underline>ghogan@lexicon.com</underline>

> 

> 

> 


  

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:14:00 -0400

From: "Hogan, Greg" <<GHogan@lexicon.com>

To: Loopers-Delight <<Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>,

        Hogan; Greg <<GHogan@lexicon.com>, MAT <<miguel.barella@poyry.com.br>

Subject: RE: Re[4]: Midi looping

Message-Id: <<9707211509.AA12786@beryllium.lexicon.com>


Dear Miguel,


Have you recorded silence in a loop when your JAMMAN is slaved to MIDI   

clock. The splice point in the loop should actually be more silent than   

the rest of the loop.  If you get noise at the splice point there is a   

problem with your JAMMAN.


Please let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything that   

I can do for you.


Best regards,


Greg Hogan

Lexicon Customer Service

Phone 617-280-0372

FAX 617-280-0499

email: ghogan@lexicon.com


     Hi Greg,

       


     I am almost sure my JamMan is not broken (I will perform the test   

you

     suggest to be sure) but the noise exists as confirmed by Bob Sellon   

on

     the following mail:

       


       


     Message was resent -- Original recipients were:

     To: Loopers-Delight <<Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>

       


     Miguel,

       


     There are two possible causes for the noise I can think of; one you

     can   fix the other you can't.

       


     When Jamman is slaved to an external MIDI clock it determines the   

end

     of   the loop by itself based on the tempo of the clock and the   

number

     of   beats selected on the front panel. If the operator tries to end   


     the loop   manually, the resulting loop will very likely be shorter

     than it should   be. When the loop is too short, Jamman restarts the   


     loop twice: once when   the end of the loop (time) is detected and

     once when the correct number   of MIDI clocks has come in. The

     solution is to let Jamman close the loop   by itself (DON'T tap a

     second time). This will get the loops size to it's   best fit.

       


     The second cause is based on the jitter on the incoming MIDI clocks

     and   the resolution of Jamman itself. At best, Jamman can lock in a   


     loop size   to within half a millisecond (512us). The problem is   

that

     most MIDI clock   sources have jitter (timing variations) in the   

same

     neighborhood. After   the loop time is locked in, the priority in

     Jamman is to stay in perfect   sync with the incoming MIDI clock.   

The

     problem is that the combined half   millisecond resolution of Jamman   


     and the jitter on the incoming clock   result in the actual size of

     the loop changing very slightly every time   through. As the loop   

size

     changes, Jamman either shortens the loop or   replays the very

     beginning of the loop to compensate resulting in   potential clicks

     and pops. With the PC itself being slaved the jitter   gets worse   

and

     so do the clicks and pops.

       


     As I said, there is currently no work-around for this other than, as   


     you   said, not playing anything at the loop edge. The only other

     thing I can   suggest (which is equally klugey), is to place   

something

     percussive at   the splice point which will tend to mask the noise.   

I

     am looking at the   problem, however, and will let you know if I   

come

     up with anything.

       


     If anyone out there has any suggestions on how to deal with this,   

I'd

      love to hear it.

       


     Bob Sellon

     Lexicon/Stec

     bsellon@lexicon.com

       


     ---------------------------------------------------------------------  


       


     Robert S. Carter also listens to the glitch, see his mail:

       


     Y'know I never really heard the glitch so much until I went home   

after

     reading your post and listened carefully. Now it's gonna bug the   

hell

     out of me. Thanks a lot :). Some loops it's not so bad but yeah it   

can

     be annoying.

       


     ---------------------------------------------------------------------  

 -

       


       


     Anyway, I thik we have to live with it until some kind of upgrade

     happens.

       


     Regards,

       


     Miguel

       


       


Miguel asked "How do you manage the annoying noise (sounds like a small   

    


glitch) that appears next to the loop boundary when the JamMan is

receiving MIDI clock?

       


I tried to get rid of it with all kinds of tricks I could think of but

did not succeed."

       


Miguel,

       


There must be something wrong with your JAMMAN.  Even if a loop is not

spliced together perfectly there should be no added noise at the splice   

    


point.  Certainly if the end and begining of a loop are not either silent   

    


or matched perfectly you will here a glitch but this is not an added

noise it is only what you here when you jump between two different sounds   

    


or tones.

Either you are not matching the end and beginning loops or you have a

broken JAMMAN.

       


If you record a loop of silence you should find is that at the

end/beginning of the loop(what I would call the splice point) is actually   

    


more silent then the rest of the loop.  If this is not the case and there   

    


is noise at the splice point therte is a problem with the machine.

       


Please let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything that   

    


I can do for you.

       


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 97 11:27:06 -0000

From: "T.W. Hartnett" <<hartnett.t@apple.com>

To: "Looper's Delight" <<Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>

Subject: Warren Cuccurullo CD

Message-Id: <<199707211626.JAA13246@apple.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"


Picked up "Machine Language" by Warren Cuccurullo (ex-Zappa, Missing 

Person's, Duran Duran) this weekend.  Cover sticker boasts "Solo Ambient 

Guitar", and indeed it is.  Most of it was recorded in '87 (!), the rest 

in 92, all live to two-track.  Liner notes are scant as to equipment 

details, but CD is quite enjoyable, with various levels of activity in 

the ambience.  It's on Imago, which went under recently (I believe), so 

it may be a little tricky to locate, but it's well worth it.


Travis Hartnett


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:53:25 -0400 (EDT)

From: MiqSk8@aol.com

To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com

Subject: Re: Warren Cuccurullo CD

Message-ID: <<970721125110_784923658@emout13.mail.aol.com>


could you forward label, cd#, and maybe where you got it?


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 97 12:02:40 -0000

From: "T.W. Hartnett" <<hartnett.t@apple.com>

To: "Looper's Delight" <<Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>

Subject: Re: Warren Cuccurullo CD

Message-Id: <<199707211700.KAA10484@apple.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"


>could you forward label, cd#, and maybe where you got it?


Machine Language, Warren Cuccurullo

Imago

IMA-24001


I purchased it from a local store, ABCD's of Austin, Texas.


TH


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:57:50 -0400

From: Charles Cohen <<ccohen@voicenet.com>

To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com

Subject: Re: MIDI looping

Message-ID: <<33D386FD.430B@voicenet.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Hardware MIDI looping is extensively implemented within the Buchla

Thunder ( a touch controller). 



-- 

            ****      What's Charles up to?      ****

                 http://www.voicenet.com/~ccohen


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 13:50:08 -0500

From: John Pollock <<johnpollock@delphi.com>

To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com

Subject: Re: jamman

Message-id: <<33D3AF60.2945@delphi.com>

Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit


Siobhan Canty wrote, in part:


> The pieces are purely vocal,

> with building harmonies and rhythm sections (Although the sound is not

> like Bobby McFerrin's, the methods are - only the pieces are built in

> a live setting, not the studio)  People just went nuts over "the magic

> box".  My next project is a

> multi-movement cantata for vocalist and JamMan.  I think the form of

> the cantata will

> lend itself to overcoming the JamMan's limitations (transposing pitch,

> style, and

> tempo) by using "recitative" sections to bring it back down, make the

> changes, and

> then build it up in a different way.  Just starting on that this

> week...

> 

> Anyhoo, this is probably more information than you care to have


Oh, no, no, no-- not the infojunkies on this list!  Tell us more!


And welcome! :-)

-- 

John Pollock

mailto:johnpollock@delphi.com

http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock (Troubador Tech)


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 00:38:19 -0500 (CDT)

From: james rhodes <<sharkey@texas.net>

To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com

Subject: live loopage for the sake of art with the Stick(R)

Message-Id: <<199707220538.AAA16161@mail1.texas.net>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


hi folks,


looping live with the Chapman Stick(R) on Sat july 26 at the Wong Spot, 

1203  East Commerce St., San Antonio ,TX ..but the main feature is an art

exhibit featuring 13 artists from Latin America, Mexico, US,,,maybe some

other countries too. i'll be providing the musical backdrop from 6-8pm. one

can reach the Wong Spot at 210-506-1710 for further details...these are very

fine artists, displaying very fine works,,,


have'nt done very many SOLO looping/soundexpressions performances,,,so i

hope to have a lot of fun,,,anyone this far south,,,please e-mail me or drop

by if you like the painted picture...........of sound....of sound....of sound


james rhodes 


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 13:13:17 -0300

From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob)

To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com

Subject: Re: jamman

Message-Id: <<v01520d00aff9f37254fe@[200.254.32.140]>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


>Unlike everyone else on that site, I don't play guitar ...


...finally...


>My next project is a

>multi-movement cantata for vocalist and JamMan.  I think the form of the

>cantata will

>lend itself to overcoming the JamMan's limitations (transposing pitch,

>style, and

>tempo) by using "recitative" sections to bring it back down, make the

>changes, and

>then build it up in a different way.  Just starting on that this week...


Unless manyone else on that site, you dont play ambient :-)

How do you "bring it back down" ?


>Anyhoo, this is probably more information than you care to have


I apreciated every word. Just go on...

Matthias


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 13:13:22 -0300

From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob)

To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com

Subject: Re: MIDI looping

Message-Id: <<v01520d01aff9faba0b05@[200.254.32.140]>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


>Hardware MIDI looping is extensively implemented within the Buchla

>Thunder ( a touch controller).


I just had a look at Buchlas Page (which kindly enough is www.buchla.com).

It only talks about the lightning which has beed discussed on the list before.


Now, am I the only one who has no idea about Thunder (exept that it looks

like a futuristic multi pad) and would like to know more?


Thank you anyway, Charles

Matthias


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 12:17:48 -0500 (CDT)

From: Kim Corbet <<kcorbet@post.cis.smu.edu>

To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com

cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com

Subject: Re: MIDI looping

Message-ID: <<Pine.3.89.9707221203.A5037-0100000@post.cis.smu.edu>

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


> Now, am I the only one who has no idea about Thunder (exept that it looks

> like a futuristic multi pad) and would like to know more?


..................Jmohmed@mail.smu.edu


try jamal.  he's had a thunder for the last several years.  he's a

percussionist but uses it to supplement his drumkat set-up with

thunder "atmospherics".  he's also talked to buchla many times about

its uses.


spurred kim


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 13:33:47 -0700

From: "Siobhan Canty" <<siocanty@cfpa.org>

To: <<Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>

Subject: Re: jamman

Message-Id: <<199707221751.NAA04036@sauron.bivwood.com>

Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BC96A3.E239B680"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



> How do you "bring it back down" ?

> 


Really good question. ÊI only have one of these toys, which is limiting so I have more ideas at this point than practical applications....Right now, I make the last vocal line I lay down indicate impending harmonic or rhythmic change with a twist or turn that is noticeably different than the previous loops. ÊThen I bring down the volumn while singing a live line that builds on that last twist... in effect then, the last loop acts as the transition loop and the listener is moved through the transition smoothly...I guess what I try to do is create a distraction so that they don't pay too much attention to the fact that the machine is being taken out...make them move forward with you...before they know it, you have changed pitch or rhythm, and have started a whole new looping sequence.


Ideally, however, I would love to have a number (at least two) of Jammen so that I could create overlapping harmonies that fit together yet act as different sections when playing alone. ÊFor example, I could lay down four vocal parts on one JamMan...and then lay down the next two, three or four in the same basic tempo but on a different JamMan and with different harmonic and rythmic qualities. ÊI could let them groove for a bit (until that dangerous monotony starts threatening) and then pull out the first JamMan, leaving the second one to continue...You could hand the sections back and forth between Jammen that way...Just ideas...I can't wait until I actually have two to see what really happens....




----------

> From: Matthias Grob <<<underline>matthias@bahianet.com.br</underline>>

> To: <underline>Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com</underline>

> Subject: Re: jamman

> Date: Tuesday, July 22, 1997 9:13 AM

> 

> 

> >Unlike everyone else on that site, I don't play guitar ...

> 

> ...finally...

> 

> >My next project is a

> >multi-movement cantata for vocalist and JamMan. ÊI think the form of the

> >cantata will

> >lend itself to overcoming the JamMan's limitations (transposing pitch,

> >style, and

> >tempo) by using "recitative" sections to bring it back down, make the

> >changes, and

> >then build it up in a different way. ÊJust starting on that this week...

> 

> Unless manyone else on that site, you dont play ambient :-)

> How do you "bring it back down" ?

> 

> >Anyhoo, this is probably more information than you care to have

> 

> I apreciated every word. Just go on...

> Matthias

> 

> 


  

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 17:18:39 -0400 (EDT)

From: BlkSwan03@aol.com

To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com

Subject: Re: live loopage for the sake of art with the Stick(R)

Message-ID: <<970722171717_1480736076@emout17.mail.aol.com>


In a message dated 7/22/97 12:00:19 PM, you wrote:


<<<<looping live with the Chapman Stick(R) on Sat july 26 at the Wong Spot, 

1203  East Commerce St., San Antonio ,TX ..but the main feature is an art

exhibit featuring 13 artists from Latin America, Mexico, US,,,maybe some

other countries too. i'll be providing the musical backdrop from 6-8pm. one

can reach the Wong Spot at 210-506-1710 for further details...these are very

fine artists, displaying very fine works,,,


have'nt done very many SOLO looping/soundexpressions performances,,,so i

hope to have a lot of fun,,,anyone this far south,,,please e-mail me or drop

by if you like the painted picture...........of sound....of sound....of sound


james rhodes 


>>


This sounds great.  Wish I could see it.  What we need is live webcasts of

all the shows people have been mentioning!


Jim


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 14:44:49 -0700 (PDT)

From: Paolo Valladolid <<pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>

To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com

Subject: Re: MIDI looping

Message-Id: <<199707222144.OAA11884@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


> Now, am I the only one who has no idea about Thunder (exept that it looks

> like a futuristic multi pad) and would like to know more?

> 

> Thank you anyway, Charles

> Matthias


Emil "Dr T" Tobenfield told us the Thunder is a MIDI controller with

pads arranged to fit the way the fingers span out from your hand; it's

apparently designed to be played with just one hand.  One notable feature

I recall was that all the pads are sensitive to position as well as pressure.

Tobenfield basically used it to control the manner in which MIDI sequences

were played back.  He also used MIDI faders and pedals.



Paolo Valladolid

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--------------------------------</x-rich>