------------------------------
Loopers-Delight-d Digest				Volume 97 : Issue 120

Today's Topics:
  Re: Ambient?                          [ matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias  ]
  Re: Web page gig listings?            [ pk@mainstring.win.net (Pat Kirtley) ]
  Re: Ambient?                          [ The Man Himself <altruist@shoko.cal ]
  RE: Unsettling Ambiences              [ matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias  ]
  Re: Web page gig listings?            [ Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com> ]
  Re: Ambient?                          [ illoyd@intrlink.com (Ian///Shakespa ]
  RE: multi-loop playback               [ "Sellon, Bob" <bsellon@lexicon.com> ]
  Re: Web page gig listings?            [ matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias  ]
  independent Loop-ish release... Ambi  [ andre <andre@monmouth.com> ]
  Re: Amplifiers for looping            [ matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias  ]
  Frippertronics                        [ Frank Bas <frank.bas@dutch.nl> ]
  Re: Frippertronics                    [ "Stephen P. Goodman" <sgoodman@prim ]
  Re: Amplifiers for looping            [ Phil Diem <pdiem@edcen.ehhs.cmich.e ]
  Re: Frippertronics                    [ Phil Diem <pdiem@edcen.ehhs.cmich.e ]

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Kim Flint
kflint@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 00:29:50 -0300
From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Ambient?
Message-Id: <v01520d01affd40d130b0@[200.254.32.154]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Olivier Malhomme:
>Matthias, you said we all play ambient?

Nono! I was just teasing Kim... :-)

>Well, would you call what I do "ambient"? (well, i'm looking for a name
>for it for so long a time...)

Probably not all, but certainly some bits...
How about my sound? I recently called it "folk influenced" here on the
list, which might be completely wrong. Could be "very soft rock", too.

Basically I thought that my (or even all) music devided into 4 main motives
(I might be repeating myself):
1- Concentration: Constant, centered, meditative, mantric, no emotions
2- Dance: movement, atraction, body, lightness.
3- Viagem (= journey): Stimulating imagination, unusual experiences, film
music, happenings...
4- Louvacao (=chanting?): Praise Nature, God, yourself, whatever you feel
thankfull to. (often the finale of a apresentation)

More points anyone?

Now "ambient" is none of this, really, or some total integration?
Or the negation of any aim?
Or a different view of the circumstances to pass the same kind of main motives?
Should I add point 5- Just be sound: research of musical language, mind
thrilling compositions...

I felt familiar with the "ambient" style because I was allways looking for
different places to play and kept claiming that my music adapts to the
ambient and is helpfull as a background for many things... but this does
not say much about the sound, rather about its aim. So?

Oliver again:
>Must we all be held by some magical "ambient hand" when working with
>loops?

Yes, its the Great Ambient that plays through you :-)

Matthias

------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 22:58:34
From: pk@mainstring.win.net (Pat Kirtley)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Web page gig listings?
Message-ID: <1461@mainstring.win.net>

The Man Himself wrote:

>From: The Man Himself <altruist@shoko.calarts.edu>

>Hey all --
>
>There seems to be quite a bit of live looping going on with the members 
>of the list.  Would somebody be willing to help set up and maintain a 
>regular page on the main web site to announce upcoming and current 
>performances?  It might be a great way to spread the word, as well as 
>reminding the regulars here of what's going on.


Maintaining such a listing on an ongoing basis is a big job. It's a
workload that's probably not feasible for Kim at this time. But... There is
a system already in place on the internet that can be used for this
purpose with very little effort. It is called the "Musi-Cal Musical Event
Database" at http://www.calendar.com/concerts 

This is a comprehensive and flexible system, and works for concert dates
worldwide. Artists can enter their tour and concert dates to the system
easily and directly. Concert goers using the system can search by date
range, city radius, music genre, etc. 

A unique aspect of the system is that it will generate an HTML
code-fragment for searches that can be invoked from a remote system
location (i.e. loopers delight) that will jump out and grab the applicable
listings on demand. All that's necessary is to settle upon some
under-utilized sub-genre on their system (such as "ambient" or "techno"),
and then get Kim to install the clickable HTML fragment on Looper's
Delight. Voila-- a worldwide listing system, automatically maintained. 

Go take a look.

Pat Kirtley

------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 22:11:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: The Man Himself <altruist@shoko.calarts.edu>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Ambient?
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.91.970727213251.12145A-100000@shoko.calarts.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Two cents on the ongoing "tyranny of ambient" thread...

People have wondered why so many assumptions tend to be made about 
"loop-based" music being equated with "ambient" music, and why there seem 
to be so many Big Three-wielding guitar players on this list.  I know 
that Kim has expressed a desire to lure some people from the 
DJ/Electronica side of things into the list discussions, which as far as 
I know have unfortunately gone largely unrealized (unless there are some 
techno heads lurking out there).

There are a few things to consider here.  For one thing, we generally 
refer to what we're doing as "loop-based musi,c" given that most of us use 
some sort of real-time looping based around a delay unit or a Big Three 
item.  However, most DJs or techno artists aren't going to think of what 
they do as "loop-based" -- they're going to use one of the dozens of 
sub-genre monikers already floating around the atmosphere of that scene.  

Look at it this way -- a metal guitar player isn't going to describe his
music as "amplified guitar-based music," he's going to call it metal.  A
blues musician will call his music blues, rather than "folk-derived
African-American guitar music."  Likewise, a techno artist won't call his
music "loop-based," because the loop aspect goes without saying (just as
the guitaristic aspect in the aforementioned examples does).  Besides,
which *sounds* better: "timeshifted, sample-based cut-and-paste music" or
"jungle"?  So a forum for "loop-based music" might well seem a strange 
place for a musician for whom looping is an almost unconscious and 
pre-ordained means of making music.

There's also a fundamental difference between the way that most of us are
using the idea of looping, versus how most sample-based "music with
looping" is made.  Basically, with most electronic loop-based music,
you're dealing with someone sampling *somebody else's* music, which was
*already made*, and then editing the sample in step-time via a computer. 
Most of this list seems more based around the "classical loop" approach,
which traces its roots back to reel-to-reel tape loop systems, which as
far as performance applications are concerned basically involves creating
(or, to use an old-fashioned term, *playing*) the music at the same moment
that it's being looped, and doing any editing or re-compiling in real
time.  It's a very different approach, which may explain why a lot of
elecronica artists might not feel like they have a lot in common with us. 

And if you look at the history of this sort of looping, you don't have the
precursors of MIDI-driven, sequence-and-sample music.  You have Terry
Riley, Steve Riech, Brian Eno, the infamous Robert
"he-who-must-be-moved-beyond" Fripp, and others.  And if you look at the
music that's most widely and commonly associated with this sort of
technology/technique, it's usually music of an abstract, rubato,
repetitious nature.  In a word, "ambient." 

This makes a lot of sense, too, because if your looping is based around a
digital delay (let alone a loop of tape drawn across two reel-to-reel
machines), you're not going to be able to do a whole lot in the way of
rhythmically precise, real-time-editable, syncable work.  You're
basically working within the confines of your delay unit length, or the
length of your tape loop.  It's only within the last few years that
devices like the Big Three have emerged, which have real potential to
break out of these parameters and into the realms previously available
only to studio-based, step-time construction.

But even then, it's not necessarily an easy or even desireable transition
from the old to the new.  I remember once making a post here advocating
the cut-and-paste capabilities of the Oberheim; someone replied (and this
is a paraphrase), "I didn't get into looping in order to do live
cut-and-paste approaches, I got into it to make raga-like, abstract
meditative music."  Now, I don't percieve any hostility from the poster,
and I absolutely don't intend this as any sort of flame towards him or
anyone else, but it does speak towards a certain ingrained way of
approaching a real-time looping methodology.  I recently made a comment to
Kim to the effect that I doubted many people used the "delay" mode on the
Echoplex, to which he replied that quite a few users prefer it, as it's a
lot more akin to more traditional ways of looping that they might have
been working with for many years previous.  Personally, I feel like using 
the Echoplex (or the other Big Two) strictly for a classical approach is 
like using a Power Macintosh strictly for playing Tetris: you can do it, 
but you're missing out on a lot of untapped possibilities.  Of course, I 
say that after about a year of having worked almost exclusively within 
the tape-loop style, simply because that's the most immediate way of 
visualizing the approach...

Our essentially frivilous thread on age from about a week ago did point 
out an interesting subtext; I'd wager that the "typical" real-time 
loopist, as represented on this list, is a middle-aged, middle-class 
family man with a background in Fripp, Eno, Torn, Reich, Glass, Riley, 
and others in that general part of the looping globe -- which is a 
different continent altogether from the ones populated by Al Jourgensen, 
Public Enemy, Underworld, Prodigy, Dr. Dre, or anyone whose main 
instrument is a Technics 1200.  Are these continents unaware of each 
other?  Absolutely not.  But in music, as in geography, it can take some 
adjustment to learn how things work in a different part of the world.  
And that's assuming that people are inclined or able to peek outside 
their own neighborhood in the first place.

Hope I haven't bored or offended anyone with this; no offense or
insomnia-inducement intended, I assure you. 

--Andre

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 03:47:04 -0300
From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: RE: Unsettling Ambiences
Message-Id: <v01520d05affd933a8d60@[200.254.32.154]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>1) Be interested yourself.
>Even if you're struggling trying to make something happen, the audience
>will hang in there with you
>if they can tell that you're "into" what you're doing.

Since that strong sentence got chopped up, I repeat it.

>2) How to get yourself interested? One way I use is to throw myself a curve
>such as start building your "springboard loop" in a different key, or with a
>noise, or let's say with a different loop length. As per this last one you
>might, after explaining to the audience how your Looper devices work, let
>someone from the audience come up and initiate loop record/length while you
>noodle away, thus capturing a non - planned initial loop that you, now all of
>a sudden have to do something with. Also, when one audience member becomes
>involved, in effect they all are, on a number of levels. On one level they
>are drawn in by becoming part of the performance and on another level they
>could be drawn in by way of a competative "let's see if we can stump the
>musician" kind of thing. Either way you've got their attention and hopefully
>your own. :-).

Interesting that you propose the involvement of the public to get
interested in your own work. Its the inversion of point one. If the public
is not interested you will not get either?

With "springboard loop", you propose to leave the sparc with the accident.
Thats valid.
Could the simple pleasure to hear a quality of sound you cannot get
anywhere else - because its yours and because is live - be a sufficiant
reason to be interested in your own playing?
I sometimes think that some value of my music comes from the fact that I do
not play much, and only when and what I really feel like. So I have a lack
of perfection and broadness compared to a professional musician, but I
maybe saved a very clean and positive relationship to my own music without
a problem to "get interested".

Matthias

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 00:04:39 -0700
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
To: pk@mainstring.win.net (Pat Kirtley), Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Web page gig listings?
Message-Id: <v03102804b001f2858d33@[207.171.196.195]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:58 PM -0700 7/27/97, Pat Kirtley wrote:
>Maintaining such a listing on an ongoing basis is a big job. It's a
>workload that's probably not feasible for Kim at this time. But... There is
>a system already in place on the internet that can be used for this
>purpose with very little effort. It is called the "Musi-Cal Musical Event
>Database" at http://www.calendar.com/concerts

Hey, that's a good idea. We could probably get him to add a category for
us, if we wanted to. It would definitely make my life easier. I had visions
of some poor looper only getting 4 people at his show because my usual 1
week+ lead time to upload stuff prevented 2 other people from knowing about
it....:-)


>A unique aspect of the system is that it will generate an HTML
>code-fragment for searches that can be invoked from a remote system
>location (i.e. loopers delight) that will jump out and grab the applicable
>listings on demand. All that's necessary is to settle upon some
>under-utilized sub-genre on their system (such as "ambient" or "techno"),
>and then get Kim to install the clickable HTML fragment on Looper's
>Delight. Voila-- a worldwide listing system, automatically maintained.
					      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

now we're talking! The less you have to rely on me, the better off you'll
all be.

We could even link it into the profiles pages. Then it could be easy to
find out about someone and see where they're playing next. Or in the case
of some of us, discover just how infrequently we ever get out...

Somebody go ahead and figure all this out, and I'll put it on the website.

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 07:43:42 -0400
From: illoyd@intrlink.com (Ian///Shakespace)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Ambient?
Message-Id: <v02140b00b0022f42dd96@[206.156.204.48]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>I know have unfortunately gone largely unrealized (unless there are some
>techno heads lurking out there).
hmm, well, lurking no more... hi i'm Ian, 24, and i'm a looper. i work in
both guitar-based live looping in a "rock" band called Shakespace and also
do mostly solo "electronica" (ranging from ambient soundscape stuff to
laswell-inspired dub to "jungle") that also relies on many kinds of loops.

>item.  However, most DJs or techno artists aren't going to think of what
>they do as "loop-based" -- they're going to use one of the dozens of
not to be difficult, but yeh, i _do_ think of my electronica as loop based,
be it an audio loop in a delay unit or a sampler or a midi loop from
Vision. this i think springs from my first electronic stuff which centered
around the much-vaunted Alesis MMT-8.

>music "loop-based," because the loop aspect goes without saying (just as
okay, well point taken. :-)

>Basically, with most electronic loop-based music,
>you're dealing with someone sampling *somebody else's* music, which was
>*already made*, and then editing the sample in step-time via a computer.
well when you say it like that...
no, all kidding aside, thats farily accurate. i do sample some of my own
loops though. sometimes, i'll have a loopguitarist friend of mine create
textures for me to sample...

>It's a very different approach, which may explain why a lot of
>elecronica artists might not feel like they have a lot in common with us.
i guess i think of myself as an exception. ugh, sorry, i straddle the
fence, wear both hats, playing guitar with some looping aspects in the
realm of a traditional "rock" band and doing the electronic thing on the
side... sorry, can't validate or debunk that point...

>...digital delay...
>machines), you're not going to be able to do a whole lot in the way of
>rhythmically precise, real-time-editable, syncable work.
hmm.. my main studio loopers for electronic stuff are a boss DD-3 pedal and
a Digitech 4-second "time machine". and with the use of a constant beat,
i've found it quite easy not only to lock up the delays to the tempo of a
given track, but utilising fx sends and levels and quick cuts, to build
intense rhythmic loops within the delay.

>I'd wager that the "typical" real-time
>loopist, as represented on this list, is a middle-aged, middle-class
>family man with a background in Fripp, Eno, Torn, Reich, Glass, Riley
oddly, the other guitarist in Shakespace is just that... he got me into
fripp and reich. another, younger friend got me into torn. eno and glass i
picked up dj-ing "chill-out rooms" at raves in college.

>And that's assuming that people are inclined or able to peek outside
>their own neighborhood in the first place.
well there are few better ways to learn...

ugh, need more coffee... anyone else care to throw a hat in this ring?

Ian///Shakespace
www.intrlink.com/~illoyd

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:53:00 -0400
From: "Sellon, Bob" <bsellon@lexicon.com>
To: Loopers-Delight <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: multi-loop playback
Message-Id: <9707281430.AA01712@beryllium.lexicon.com>

Dear Jus,

The nearly impending upgrade ROM for the JamMan will provide this   
functionality.

To All:
My first formal meeting with Lexicon prez Harvey Schein to discuss JamMan   
software
licensing is scheduled for Wednesday. I'll do a posting of the outcome.   
Sorry about
all the delays.

 Bob Sellon
 Lexicon/Stec


 ----------
From:  Loopers-Delight[SMTP:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com]
Sent:  Tuesday, July 22, 1997 7:19 PM
To:  Loopers-Delight
Subject:  multi-loop playback

 ----------------------------------------------------
My first question is, is there a looper that can output more than one   
loop
at a time?  It seems sort of limiting to have only one loop, when two
different length loops would sound so much more interesting.  It seems   
sort
of expensive to buy two devices.

Jus wondering.


afn39111@afn.org <*> Why am I such a dork?
The Church of Perelandra: http://www.afn.org/~afn39111
B5 (passing beyond the Rim) list: babylon5-request@gatekey.com

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 15:17:19 -0300
From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Web page gig listings?
Message-Id: <v01520d02b00281708153@[200.254.32.117]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>At 10:58 PM -0700 7/27/97, Pat Kirtley wrote:
>>Maintaining such a listing on an ongoing basis is a big job. It's a
>>workload that's probably not feasible for Kim at this time. But... There is
>>a system already in place on the internet that can be used for this
>>purpose with very little effort. It is called the "Musi-Cal Musical Event
>>Database" at http://www.calendar.com/concerts
>
>Hey, that's a good idea. We could probably get him to add a category for
>us, if we wanted to. It would definitely make my life easier.

Uh, I liked that one: So we would call that category "Loop music" instead
of "ambient" or something existent where we cannot agree too? :-)

Matthias

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 01:37:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: andre <andre@monmouth.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: independent Loop-ish release... Ambient?
Message-Id: <199707290537.BAA20102@shell.monmouth.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

he- hel- hell- hello all..

let's get looped ....

just a quick note - if anyone wants to support our independent central NJ
efforts here... my improvising duo JFK'S LSD UFO now has a release to offer
the world... it's called "ASSASSINATION HALLUCINATION"

80 mins+ on a CrO2 cassette, real time duped...

$8.00 postage incl (for continental USA addresses)

Just drop me a line if you're interested in ordering one, we can do credit
card orders at 908-747-6448 M-F 10am - 8pm ET, Sat 10am-6pm, Sun 10am-5pm

or send a money order to Jfk's Lsd Ufo * PO Box 138 * Red Bank NJ * 07701

what's it like ?? well... here's a coupla quotes -

"..it's too weird for us..."

-John, booking dude at the Knitting Factory, NYC


"...was I tripping ? I really like this..."

-Otis, booking dude at the Wetlands, NYC


"...you guys are cool..that's really out there, wacked stuff..."

-Buckethead, when we opened for him a few months back.(summer 97)


we're a 100% live duo, primarily drumset and guitar, but we both trigger
synths thru Kat, pads, and Guitar synth.. Lots of digital delay loops,
samples, world percussion, and a little bit of strange political
information. Our topics range from (of course) Ufos and crop circles to gulf
war syndrome, the heaven's gate cult, or vintage vox tremolo units.

influences include (but are not limited to) - Eno, tangerine dream, steve
reich, derek bailey, crimson, polytown/torn, steve hillage, metheny, vernon
reid, john zorn, zappa, nana vasconcelos, fripp, andy summers, all indonesia
gamelan music, the spirit of those on this list, etc etc etc

we also create sequences on the spot, but use absolutely no pre-recorded
material. This baffles most audience members, but no-one on this list will
really be fazed from a tech point of view, But i think you'll really dig it.

E-mail me if interested - those of you with a release(s) - get in touch
regarding trade??

thanx for reading this far....

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 17:50:39 -0300
From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Amplifiers for looping
Message-Id: <v01520d04b003ef283224@[200.254.32.135]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Sorry, thats an old one I accidentally did not send to the list (does this
happen to you, that sometimes doing "reply" it replies to the original
sender and not to the list?)

Anton:
>Busses 1 & 2 feed the greenbacks (all guitar sounds and loops) and
>busses 3 & 4 feed PA cabinets (other instruments and effects).  We use
>rackmount tube guitar amplifiers for the greenbacks and highpower solid
>state amps for the PA.  With more busses, and loopers (we use 5) the
>individual intruments and loopers can be placed spatially/speaker.

Last time I was in the cinema, I felt like trying to have the clean signal
on one central speaker and reverb on two periferial cabinets (maybe even on
the ceiling?). I did not do it yet, because I do not have the cabinet and
amp ready.

Anyone tried this?
Does it sound really different from stereo?

Matthias

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 23:00:46 +0200
From: Frank Bas <frank.bas@dutch.nl>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Frippertronics
Message-ID: <33DE59FD.214@dutch.nl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>From what I understand the trick that Fripp did with two Revoxes doesn't
differ all that much from what a tape-loop echo machine does. Or am I
overlooking something? I have an Echolette on the shelf (one with tubes
and an electronic eye) which I hope to restore to working order some day
and I would like to use to do some of the weird stuff Fripp used to do.
Could you give your comments on that?

Thanks! Frank Bas.

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 21:24:23 -0700
From: "Stephen P. Goodman" <sgoodman@primenet.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Frippertronics
Message-Id: <199707300424.VAA19149@usr03.primenet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Frank Bas <frank.bas@dutch.nl> queried:

> >From what I understand the trick that Fripp did with two Revoxes doesn't
> differ all that much from what a tape-loop echo machine does. Or am I
> overlooking something? I have an Echolette on the shelf (one with tubes
> and an electronic eye) which I hope to restore to working order some day
> and I would like to use to do some of the weird stuff Fripp used to do.
> Could you give your comments on that?

Hi Frank!  While I might not use a tape setup to do my material, relying
instead - and primarily for financial reasons originally - on a Digitech
7.6-sec. 'Time Machine' for my purposes..  But from what I understand about
deck-to-deck looping (as opposed to my process, or physical tape loop
methods like the Echolette), the differences have to do with the kind of
layering that takes place.  With the Deck-to-Deck method, there's the
looped signal being electronically mixed via linein, the originally-laid
sound never really disappearing unless through natural sonic obfuscation,
as with dissonance.

With the closed-system, single-box style (like mine), there are a finite
number of stacks in memory (16 in mine), one for each loop cycle used.  It
uses a common computing method, FIFO (1st in, 1st out).  So when you've
laid down 16 layers of a loop, you have to remember while playing that the
next cycle round, the first loop laid down just disappears.

I suspect that the finite tape loop methods like the Echolette and Echoplex
are somewhere in between, in that they're still electronically mixing a
direct signal on top of a taped signal; but there's the added aspect of the
signal from deck 2 - a signal from tape, not direct - electronically
returned and fed to deck 1.  I can't put my finger on it exactly, but
that's what the difference sounds like to me.

Stephen Goodman       * Download The Loop Of The Week and more! 
EarthLight Studios         * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 30 Jul 97 00:33:23 -0000
From: Phil Diem <pdiem@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Amplifiers for looping
Message-Id: <m0wtQOs-000RW3C@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Matthias Grob wrote:


>Last time I was in the cinema, I felt like trying to have the clean signal
>on one central speaker and reverb on two periferial cabinets (maybe even on
>the ceiling?). I did not do it yet, because I do not have the cabinet and
>amp ready.

>Anyone tried this?
>Does it sound really different from stereo?

>Matthias

Yes, I have tried this and in my opinion it does sound different than 
stereo. I've taken it one step further by adding a third cabinet which is 
wired across the two positive speaker terminals on my stereo power amp. 
This results in the third speaker being out of phase (?) with the left 
and right cabinets which gives it it's own voice. Some very interesting 
stuff comes out of this third cabinet on occasion. I've used this set up 
for years on both my rig and my stereo system and I haven't fried 
anything yet. Maybe I'm just lucky? Actually, I read about this idea in 
Popular Mechanics or something back (again, yup i'm over 25) in the 60's 
as a way to make a regular stereo quadraphonic. In the article they had 
the forth speaker wired between the negative leads from right and left 
and the negative terminal on the amp. I wasn't so impressed with this 
part, couldn't hear any difference in the voice of the fourth speaker. 

So my rig's set up like this: clean signal into amp @ center; line 
out/effects send from amp(s) to mixer; mixer output to loopers (jamman 
and digitech time machine); loopers outputs to 2nd mixer w/ vortex and 
digitech studio twin on effects loops; mixer output to stereo power amp 
w/ speakers @ right, left and third speaker @ back of room or hall. 

Both the vortex and the studio twin essentially have the ability to 
transform the mono signal from the loopers into stereo so I have four 
seperate/different sound sources...surround sound.

Phil 

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Date: Wed, 30 Jul 97 00:33:27 -0000
From: Phil Diem <pdiem@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Frippertronics
Message-Id: <m0wtQOw-000RWQC@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Frank Bas wrote:

>From what I understand the trick that Fripp did with two Revoxes doesn't
>differ all that much from what a tape-loop echo machine does. Or am I
>overlooking something? I have an Echolette on the shelf (one with tubes
>and an electronic eye) which I hope to restore to working order some day
>and I would like to use to do some of the weird stuff Fripp used to do.
>Could you give your comments on that?

>Thanks! Frank Bas.

I used one of those (Klempt Echolette, mfg in W. Germany) back in the 
proverbial "good old days" (1960's). I was never able to do loops - by my 
definition - with it and relied on 1/2 track reel to reel machines for 
that. However, I did use it for reverb, delay, and as a preamp. It 
produced outstanding overdrive and crunch for that time period and the 
"green eye" was very cool. 

Phil 

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