------------------------------
Loopers-Delight-d Digest				Volume 97 : Issue 121

Today's Topics:
  Re: Amplifiers for looping            [ matthias@grob.org (Matthias Grob) ]
  Re: Ambient?                          [ The Man Himself <altruist@shoko.cal ]
  Re: Ambient?                          [ illoyd@intrlink.com (Ian///Shakespa ]
  Re: re: Amplifiers for looping        [ Phil Diem <pdiem@edcen.ehhs.cmich.e ]
  Re: Web page gig listings?            [ Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com> ]
  Ambient again                         [ Olivier Malhomme <malhomme@infobiog ]
  Vortex database (at last)             [ SoundFNR@aol.com ]
  No mail for me?                       [ "The Negative Eye" <juma@cyberia.ne ]

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kflint@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 14:05:26 -0300
From: matthias@grob.org (Matthias Grob)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Amplifiers for looping
Message-Id: <v01520d00b004f8307ca4@[200.254.32.106]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I asked:
>>Last time I was in the cinema, I felt like trying to have the clean signal
>>on one central speaker and reverb on two periferial cabinets
>>Anyone tried this?

Phil did:
>Yes, I have tried this and in my opinion it does sound different than
>stereo. I've taken it one step further by adding a third cabinet which is
>wired across the two positive speaker terminals on my stereo power amp.

Ah... this ends up giving you the difference between the two channels.
Since I assume that the reverb processor does not send any signal equally
to both cannels, but different delays, it might be the same as the sum in
terms of volume, but with a different characteristic due to the changed
phase.

>Some very interesting stuff comes out of this third cabinet on occasion.

Lexicon and others create multichannel reverbs, but only for home, and
rather expensive, but that would probably the consequent way to go...
... and sounds familiar with "ambient", doesnt it? ;-)

>... I haven't fried anything yet. Maybe I'm just lucky?

No, I don't see any problem... I will try it, too!

>So my rig's set up like this: clean signal into amp @ center; line
>out/effects send from amp(s) to mixer; mixer output to loopers (jamman
>and digitech time machine); loopers outputs to 2nd mixer w/ vortex and
>digitech studio twin on effects loops; mixer output to stereo power amp
>w/ speakers @ right, left and third speaker @ back of room or hall.

Oh, I see... so you probably never have only reverb on the stereo set,
because all of the loops run on it, too, right?
But on the third speaker, you might get only reverb if you pan the loops to
center, is that how you use it?

Thanks
Matthias

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 16:24:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: The Man Himself <altruist@shoko.calarts.edu>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Ambient?
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.91.970730161945.6068B-100000@shoko.calarts.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 28 Jul 1997, Ian///Shakespace wrote:

> >...digital delay...
> >machines), you're not going to be able to do a whole lot in the way of
> >rhythmically precise, real-time-editable, syncable work.
>
> hmm.. my main studio loopers for electronic stuff are a boss DD-3 pedal and
> a Digitech 4-second "time machine". and with the use of a constant beat,
> i've found it quite easy not only to lock up the delays to the tempo of a
> given track, but utilising fx sends and levels and quick cuts, to build
> intense rhythmic loops within the delay.

I didn't mean to suggest that you can't make rhythmic loops with a delay
or tape loop (though I can see where that might have been the
implication).  What I mean is that once you set up the basic loop length
in a classical system, you're basically trapped within that.  Your loop is
going to remain within the length of your delay time or tape loop, which
is a fairly insular world insofar as trying to sync up to an external
rhythmic source.  Even if you dial up a delay time that matches a
sequencer or drum machine, if you repeat it for very long you're almost
certainly going to experience drift over time unless it's MIDI-locked. 
And forget about changing the length of the loop after it's been
extablished, copying/editing the length and content, etc.  That's
basically what I was referring to.  Excellent points, though. 

--Andre

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 20:15:00 -0400
From: illoyd@intrlink.com (Ian///Shakespace)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Ambient?
Message-Id: <v02140b01b00587fd086e@[206.156.204.26]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>I didn't mean to suggest that you can't make rhythmic loops with a delay
>or tape loop (though I can see where that might have been the
>implication).  What I mean is that once you set up the basic loop length
>in a classical system, you're basically trapped within that.

okay sorry i see what you mean and yeah, thats the problem. ah well...

as for the thing with drift... if you're playing to a sequencer or drum
machine and you set your delay lengths with, for instance, a drum  track
and get your taps all hitting where you want them and dial it up just to
the flanging point on the drums, then as long as your guitar playing in
marginally precise the drift won't be noticable. i've done things like this
with a moog rogue on autotrigger and set the delay with that and ran guitar
througgh and for 45 minutes you'de never have known there wasn't sopme
kinda magical sync track...

of course if you gotta rely on human persussive sources, wel your guess is
as good as mine... russian dragon perhaps?

Ian///Shakespace
www.intrlink.com/~illoyd

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 97 22:43:59 -0000
From: Phil Diem <pdiem@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: re: Amplifiers for looping
Message-Id: <m0wtlAW-000RXdC@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Matthias wrote:

>Oh, I see... so you probably never have only reverb on the stereo set,
>because all of the loops run on it, too, right?
>But on the third speaker, you might get only reverb if you pan the loops to
>center, is that how you use it?

Actually, somewhat ashamed to admit that I'm not ALWAYS looping :-). I do 
play straight (no looping) some of the time and the digitech studio twin, 
which is on one of the mixers effect loops, has many stereo reverbs as 
well as all the other usual stuff - chorus, flanger, detune ect. I don't 
like or use this other stuff but I do use the reverbs and the stereo ping 
pong delay (way cool and the only reason I purchased it) both with and 
without looping and/or vortex. It really depends on what mood I'm in at 
the time. But in any case the answer is still yes. I do play with a clean 
signal in the guitar amp (@ center) and only reverb in the stereo +1 
field. As for what eminates from the +1 cabinet, I've never really tried 
to engineer this, I'm more of an observer.

Some (probably irrelevant) background/bio info. I, like others on this 
list, am WELL past 25. My primary instrument/interest is acoustic 
electric guitar. I also play and loop a fender rhodes; electric bass; 
various drums and percussion instruments, harmonicas, and recently a C 
melody sax, all of which are mic'd and run through yet another mixer. I 
played in various bands around the midwest and experimented a lot (and 
performed occasionly) with multiple 1/2 track tape machines back in the 
60's and early 70's. Then I got married, had some kids, got a REAL JOB 
and quit playing for 20 years. I started playing again when my kids got 
interested in music. My wife says it's mid life crisis but I don't care 
because I'm really, really having FUN! This new digital stuff (jammen, 
plex's, vortex, ect) is way easier to use, much more adaptable, and so 
compact! Yah, there's a trade off, but not much doubt in my mind that 
it's more than a fair trade.

Time to go have fun!

Phil

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 00:16:36 -0700
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Web page gig listings?
Message-Id: <v03102805b005e2362b89@[207.171.196.59]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>At 10:58 PM -0700 7/27/97, Pat Kirtley wrote:
>>Maintaining such a listing on an ongoing basis is a big job. It's a
>>workload that's probably not feasible for Kim at this time. But... There is
>>a system already in place on the internet that can be used for this
>>purpose with very little effort. It is called the "Musi-Cal Musical Event
>>Database" at http://www.calendar.com/concerts

>
>We could even link it into the profiles pages. Then it could be easy to
>find out about someone and see where they're playing next. Or in the case
>of some of us, discover just how infrequently we ever get out...
>
>Somebody go ahead and figure all this out, and I'll put it on the website.
>
>kim


I want to keep this idea alive, because it's a pretty good one. If you are
on the profiles page and would like a button to automatically find your
upcoming gigs on this nifty database, do this:  Go to the calandar site
(http://www.calendar.com/concerts) and search for yourself. The database
will return any listings along with an html code fragment for initiating
that search from another site. Copy the html, and send it to Michael Peters
for inclusion on the profiles page. (MPeters@compuserve.com) Be very nice
to Michael, because we are asking him to do a whole buncha work. :-)

Then, make sure to update the database with your upcoming shows.

Also, if anyone can think of a way to do a more generic search for loop
shows, figure out the html fragment and send it to me. Remember that we
don't all play ambient. ;-) (maybe a search for some combination of likely
genres?)

Well, I just sent them mail asking that they add a "Looping" category,
maybe it'll turn out to be easy.

thanks!

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:56:36 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Olivier Malhomme <malhomme@infobiogen.fr>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Ambient again
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95.970731142822.21318A-100000@lovelace.infobiogen.fr>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Well, yes maybe I was a little unclear. I'm not too satisfied with the
word ambient because it means to me something when it's a deliberate
process, ie Music for airports....
But it seems to me that it conveys the idea of a kind of music which does
not require any participation from the listener, just a passive state like
when you're exposed to the whatever fills noise in your usual super
market, an idea I don't like that much. So I'm more for thinking that this
word is  a kind of negation (to quote Matthias, at least one his
propositions)
of evryone (more or less) aim, to put as much as we are able in our music
(if I'm not wrong) hence my reaction to the word. To you matthias I would
have a soft spot for some word containing a meditative feel as well as a
sense of movement, and I would add another you did not mention: it is
sometimes dense. What word would work for all this? I confess I'm
clueless.
Andre raises clearly some interesting points (lots of!), that move us (I
think) to another point, which is really interesting: Tons of people/music
use loops, even if not generated with one of the big three, as you call
them. There are loops almost in all kind of music. As we refer to the use
of them, we choose a slightly different way of taking the idea/process/
and then music. You are right, we could have here DJs, techno freaks....
And it is not the case. Why? Do we because of the way we use our toys (or
the toys we'd like to use, which alone can set a way of working and
influence you, even if you don't have the toy) have in common a kind of
process (I'll stop tuo use "process" all the time quite soon), let alone a
kind of music, whith certainly a hell of a lot of differences between us
all, but retaining a kind of "we belong to a big family" feel?
(whhoops this sentence was too long for me) 

I got a headache

Olivier Malhomme

------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 03:25:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: SoundFNR@aol.com
To: ngold@imagina.com, MPeters@compuserve.com, Dpcoffin@aol.com,
        jeffs@bgnet.bgsu.edu, jaytaylor@scsn.net, patrick@his.com,
        Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Vortex database (at last)
Message-ID: <970802032506_718109488@emout11.mail.aol.com>

Vortex patch exchange, now up and running (I hope), 
also info on controling the vortex echoes.
Hope to add much more:-
  Using the expression pedal;
  Descriptions of all the different processors;
  Graphic showing all the effect diagrams on one page;
  And of course the 'art of morphing';
(Just as soon(?) as I get the time.

Any suggestions/criticisms/contributions welcome.

It's at:-
          http://members.aol.com/soundfnr/vortex.htm
See you there  
                            Andy Butler  (UK)

------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 17:42:10 -0300
From: "The Negative Eye" <juma@cyberia.net.ar>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: No mail for me?
Message-Id: <m0wv7fw-000QDoC@server1.cyberia.net.ar>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Hello loopminded,

Are you receiveing any mail???
I didn't got a single message since a weel or so.

???

Juan Manuel Aguirre
aka
->thE negativE eyE
-->negativE visioN
--->negativE imagE

--------------------------------