------------------------------
Loopers-Delight-d Digest				Volume 97 : Issue 131

Today's Topics:
  Re: LOOPING PHILOSOPHY (condensed)    [ future perfect <artmusic@gte.net> ]
  Re: LOOPING PHILOSOPHY (condensed)    [ pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Michael Pyc ]
  life's loops and open minds           [ fred marshall <fred@fredmarshall.co ]
  Re: LOOPING PHILOSOPHY (condensed)    [ Leonardo Cavallo <LEO@DINONET.IT> ]
  Re: LOOPING PHILOSOPHY (condensed)    [ Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com> ]
  DJs as Musicians                      [ Mark@asisoftware.com (Mark Kata) ]
  Re: life's loops and open minds       [ Leonardo Cavallo <LEO@DINONET.IT> ]
  RE: Ambient effects -- something wil  [ David Kirkdorffer <DKirkdorffer@exa ]
  RE: Ambient effects -- something wil  [ Mark@asisoftware.com (Mark Kata) ]
  Context                               [ "Siobhan Canty" <siocanty@cfpa.org> ]

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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 03:27:27 -0400
From: future perfect <artmusic@gte.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: LOOPING PHILOSOPHY (condensed)
Message-ID: <33F0105F.215E@gte.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Kim Flint wrote:
> 
> At 09:59 PM 8/11/97 -0400, future perfect wrote:
> 
> >Kim Flint wrote:
> >>
> >> Yet more proof that guitarists are the most arrogant people on earth....
> >>
> >       I have not posted to the Looper list before: my roomate is a guitarist
> >and synthesist and I'm a singer and flutist...
> 
> oh, yeah, I forgot about singers. Guitarists are second. :-)
> 
> Welcome to Looper's Delight...but you asked for it!
> 
> >       Though I do not wish to attack anyone on their views of music and its
> >wide range of expressivity, I do not think a DJ is a musician. He may be
> >a craftsman and an artist, just as say, a non-musician sound engineer
> >can be,
> 
> Many DJ's would agree with you. If you are talking about people who work at
> radio stations or play hits from the 50's at weddings or whatever. That is a
> craft that requires a lot of skill, but is not the same as being a musician.
> 
> However, there are many people using turntables and samplers and such to
> create unique and new music. Many of these people started out as the regular
> sort of dj, working at dance clubs or whatever, and gradually used their
> craft in increasingly creative ways. At some point they are quite obviously
> (to me anyway) musicians. Where I live, a number of local rock bands have
> even had dj's *as members* since the mid-80's. Functional, contributing
> members of the band. Certainly as qualified to be musicians as the singer,
> or even the drummer. :-)

Qualified to be members of the band, for sure...but you do not need to
be a musician to be in a band (ask Yoko)...DJ's would probably not call
themselves musicians, and this doesn't diminish their contributions to
the music. 

> And really, to use your other example, there are a lot of recording
> engineers crossing this boundary as well. I've heard a lot of remixes in the
> past few years that were much more creative and interesting than the
> originals. Is the engineer responsible for this really just a craftsman?

You talk like being a craftsman is 'less' than being a musician-its just
as important, just as vital to the music...great engineers I know don't
call themselves musicians, they call themselves engineers.
 
> Well, I believe a musician is a person who creates music. Very simple, no
> complications. However they wish to do that is fine, it's up to their own
> creative muse. Who am I to decide?
 
Its the old 'if a monkey throws paint at a canvas, he's an artist'
debate. In the end, its up to all of us to decide..if we don't like it,
we don't buy it.  And if that monkey is suddenly thrown into the
international spotlight, it belittles the job 'artist'. I don't want to
start a debate about what music is.
 
  You need to delve into your own head to answer those questions. For me
it
> meant understanding that after years of hard practice, I had developed a big
> ego to go along with the speed at which I could wiggle my fingers. I had to
> get over that and deal with a zillion insecurities about it all. I had to
> get humbled a bunch of times too.  A never ending process, I imagine, but
> undoubtedly a healthy one. I'm certain I would have stopped growing as a
> musician if I hadn't dealt with those issues.

All musicians go through this, years and years of scales, gigs, lessons,
etc...
This is why a DJ is a DJ.
  
> This whole list is about creating music in an unusual way. For me, a looper
> is an instrument unto itself, and that's an idea that would probably be a
> bit controversial most anywhere else. Given that, it's sort of amazing to me
> to see some of the narrowness that's come up here about things like sampling
> and dj's and whatever. It hardly seems useful for us to be promoting these
> silly prejudices.
 
In the end, if you like it, if other people like it, it doesn't matter
how it was created. Or what we call the people who made it. Go forth,
create...better than arguing about these goofy things. Let this thread
die.

Dave


-- 
********************************************************************* 
'Future Perfect' - progressive art music - visit our website at:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/8082 
"Nothing worthwhile is achieved suddenly"  -Robert Fripp

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 10:05:48 +0100
From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Michael Pycraft Hughes, PhD)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: LOOPING PHILOSOPHY (condensed)
Message-Id: <1060.199708120905@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Kim Flint wrote:

> Yet more proof that guitarists are the most arrogant people on earth....

Well, it's only 'cos we're BETTER THAN EVERYONE ELSE!!!    :)

> Could we please broaden our minds a little bit and stop trying to prove that
> one approach to music is oh so much more special than another? There's no
> need to be threatened by someone who's a bit different from you. Learn from
> the differences, you might grow a little bit.

Hey Kim, would you rather we went back to discussing hardware?  :)

Misha wrote:
>Though I do not wish to attack anyone on their views of music and its
>wide range of expressivity, I do not think a DJ is a musician. He may be
>a craftsman and an artist, just as say, a non-musician sound engineer
>can be, but I *do* believe you must play a musical instrument to be
>considered a musician. (And, yes, a voice *is* a musical instrument).:)

Now this is interesting.  As a flautist, you may have a classical
background.  Now, would you say that an orchestral conductor is a musician?
 (S)He plays on instrument, but is largely seen as a musician. 

Dastardly- I mean Motley - wrote:
>  Creativity can be brought to almost any human endeaver, but that
> doesn't make two activities equal in a more important sense. A jock can
> pick the sample, playback rate, & what context he drops the sample into.
> But a guitarist can do equivalent things AND choose tone, phrasing, &
> attack; he can bend notes, add vibrato, & play harmonics. The number of
> options available for expression affects the power and expressiveness of
> the instrument or method.

Yes, but a guitarst on his own is pretty imited.  There aren't many solo
electric guitar peices worth listening to.  A DJ can tale the sounds of an
orchestra, a funk band and NY art-scronk and come up with something
huge-sounding.  People playing musical instruments will always need to use
other players to fill out the sound - drummers, bassists, thumb-pianists...
which is almost what the DJ is doing.

> A 7 note thumb piano is not as capable of
> expressing human emotion as a tenor saxophone.

A saxophone cannot sound as delicate and childlike as a thumb piano.

> On another, somewhat related, note I have always thought that some
> instruments are more expressive than others, and wondered why. Why are
> there more sax, guitar, trumpet or violin solos than other instruments?
> The best answer I've come up with so far seems to be the point I was
> making above about the options. The number of ways an instruments can
> shape a note is directly related to it's expressive power. There is a
> reason sax is more popular than French horn; or guitar more popular than
> banjo. I believe great players can touch us more deeply with these
> instruments.

No, I think a lot of it is to do with volume.  The banjo was far morepopula
than guitar well into the 40s.  Cellos are loud but too deep-voiced to solo
well over two violin sections.  There are many solos for obscure
instruments in classical music.  Besides, as expressive instruments go the
church organ is dire - note on, note off, nothing else.  Now, tell me that
Bach's Toccata & Fugue in Dmin is not expressive....

Michael

/-------------------------------------------------------------------\
|Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes | Tel:0141 330 5979 | Fax: 0141 330 4907 |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|Bioelectronics, Rankine Bldg, Glasgow University, Glasgow, G12 8QQ |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|  http://www.elec.gla.ac.uk/groups/bio/Electrokinetics/main.html   |
\-------------------------------------------------------------------/

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 02:34:32 -0800
From: fred marshall <fred@fredmarshall.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: life's loops and open minds
Message-ID: <33F03C2A.15D7@fredmarshall.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

- so many words . . .

- so little thought.

- i finally get it . . .y'all aren't joking !

- someone said:

"A 7 note thumb piano is not as capable of
expressing human emotion as a tenor saxophone."  

- IN WHOSE HANDS? - and judged by whose thought police?

- in the '50s i played at a lot of spontaneous sessions with drummers
like "Philly" Joe Jones playing the phone book with a couple of ashtrays
and  some cocktail glasses, someone else playing spoons - and one cat
used to whistle into a matchbook bent some funny way to approximate a
flute - and the music was so good it'd make your hair hurt !

- who called the cops?

- someone asked:

"Why are there more sax, guitar, trumpet or violin solos than other
instruments?"

- how about piano?  in the early '60s i was working and recording with
Vince Guaraldi, and we did a series for the tv - Peanuts, or Charlie
Brown or something,  (one of the tunes was  Linus and Lucy) anyway, i
noticed then, and it is still true, that you only need to hear a  couple
of notes to KNOW that its Vince playing the piano and everybody knows
that a piano  can't "bend notes, add vibrato, & play harmonics." or so
they say . . .

- and someone else wrote :

"'Kay, my mind's open... Show me any example of a DJ's work that can
make
me feel like, say, Ry Cooder's solo on "Lipstick Sunset" or Amos
Garrett's on "Midnight at the Oasis"-- please!

- try Q-Bert ! ! !  Over at Slims in San Francisco our band (marshall
arts) was paired with the Invisible Scratch Pickles, including Q-Bert,
and we played the last half of the show together - having never heard or
seen each other before that night - and they ARE real musicians - it was
beautiful - i call Q-Bert the Max Roach of scratchers and that's a
conservative description - they practice their ART "24-7".

- as to the solos by Mr Cooder and Mr Garret . . . i admire their work
and i appreciate something beautiful or powerful whenever it turns up
but its hard for me to imagine what it makes YOU feel like. 

- which brings to mind a story about George Bernard Shaw, when he was in
his 80's, at a dinner party. Mr Shaw's eighty year old sphincters
weren't exactly in his control anymore and he farted, as people
sometimes do. When the "sweet young starlet" the hostess had seated
beside him laughed, he turned to her and said " My dear you're so easily
amused - you should come to all of my plays".

- I DO know that having been raised in the disipline called jazz and
having played with guitarists like Wes Montgomery and Howard Roberts,
hearing them every night play hundreds of choruses on the same tune
without repeating themselves (them was the rules!) its sometimes hard to
keep the "snob wax" out of my ears. But then i remember that Wes gave me
my first pickup - Although i was the bass playe, i had welded up this
fretless 8-stringed instrument using re-bar and steel - and asked him
how to make it come out of the amplifier . . . he said "you got to have
a PICKup" and drove me over to a luthier in san francisco to get one
they'd taken off his guitar (Gibson was making him a special guitar) -
he did that because HE wanted to hear what it would sound like - which
started me down (or up) the path of study that is still unfolding -
making and playing things that haven't been on the planet before - i
received US Patent #3,447,412 for that one. (the Megatar)

 -  you can see it on p. 95 of a book that just came out - The Rock and
Roll  Hall of Fame's "I  Want To Take You Higher - The Psychedelic Era,
1965-1969" . . . at the top left of the picture is one of my early
loopers - the first one was in late '63 - i called them "Time Tunnels", 
a sony TC-220 that i modified - stereo loops - but you were stuck with
the tape length even if it did have 7&1/2, 3&3/4. and 1&7/8 speeds - the
young lady is my then wife and the mother of my children, including "the
tenor player i met in the delivery room" who is currently 1/3rd of
marshall arts - she had a hit record with WE FIVE. The song was "You
Were on My Mind" - next to her is Noel Jewkes who can play "Donna Lee"
on a one stringed Chinese violin OR on the saw, as well as any horn ever
made, plus some we made - next to him is Jerry Granelli who i worked
with for over 15 years - we also performed w/out the lights as "Sound" -
downstairs are Bill Ham and Bob Fine who were "Light" of Light Sound
Dimension.

- and i am eternally grateful for Wes's "open mind". 

- here we are . . .

fred marshall

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 12:03:58 +0200
From: Leonardo Cavallo <LEO@DINONET.IT>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: LOOPING PHILOSOPHY (condensed)
Message-ID: <19970812100357343.AAA227@Default>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Great controversial issue!!!


We're talking about creativity, no matter what instrument you're playing. No
matter if it's a musical instrument or not...

True creativity can move us through a lot of expressive vehicles. Don't
limit yourself!

I'm a Stick player. I'll spend the rest of my life studiyng this really
difficult instrument. Am I more musicians of a strictly blues guitar player,
who plays only 3 strings, some bendings and only pentatonics passages?? How
do you consider a musicians ?? For how long does he study tecnique and
scales??? 

Based on which parameters do you decide? 
And what about a player with a total different background from ours? A koto
player? A traditional bouzoki musician? Some african percussion ensemble?
Same parameters to judge? Do you talk about scales and bending with them or
just hear the beauty of their expression?


I know Djs and engineers with more musical attitude and talent than a lot of
guitarist (drummers, singer, keyboardists, bassists, stickists) out there.  
Less musicians because the instrument they use?? I don't think so. Their
samplings or sound elaborations can move me more than some istrionic hyper
fast scalar passages or other "beauties" of the old cliched guitar world.

And there's more: often these talented guys (DJs, etc) have not the
arrogance to consider themselves musicians when a lot of simply
"istrumentalists" think to have the right to call themselves "musicians".
"Artists", too.

Well, there's something wrong here. It's the substance, it's what you
produce that is important.

Maybe one of the reasons behind the new electronic boom (techno, jungle,
trip.hop, etc) is that in these years DJs had a lot more to say than most
guitarists (and all the family). Maybe is it possible?? Maybe not the only,
but probably one of the reasons....

There're tedious guitarists and creative DJs. there're creative guitarists
and annoying DJs.
To find who's the musician, look for the music....

ciao 
leo

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 03:42:51 -0700
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: LOOPING PHILOSOPHY (condensed)
Message-Id: <v03102800b015d477c00b@[207.171.196.237]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 11:44 PM -0500 8/11/97, John Pollock wrote:
>'Kay, my mind's open... Show me any example of a DJ's work that can make
>me feel like, say, Ry Cooder's solo on "Lipstick Sunset" or Amos
>Garrett's on "Midnight at the Oasis"-- please!

Phrased this way, it's an absurd DJ vs Guitarist competition with arbitrary
standards of merit. It just begs another round of my endless and now
tedious refrain of "what is the point?"

But rephrased, it becomes much more interesting. And becomes a chance to
learn from each other.

How about if you spend some time explaining to those who are not familiar
with Ry Cooder and Amos Garrett why these particular musicians are
especially moving to you? Maybe you could teach us something about their
music so that we could maybe learn to appreciate it in the same way you do.
Hopefully we can learn something that will give us new insight to our own
music. I know nothing about Amos Garrett, and only a little about Ry
Cooder. What I heard of Ry Cooder apparently didn't move me the same as
you, so I probably missed something. Maybe you could teach me and others
what that was?

And by the same token, those interested in electronic music of various
sorts could possibly explain to others what it is about that music that
appeals to them and moves them in a particular way. Teach us about the
elements of that music that make it creatively satisfying, so that those
doing different sorts of music might learn to appreciate it and possibly
gain new insights to their own music.

Part of the deal is we give each other some respect and not trod on the
differences we find. Also: we must realize that it is entirely possible
that we *won't* understand the other sort of music, and that it might not
move us, but that doesn't make it a less valid form. It's just different,
and for whatever reason, doesn't connect with us. It does move someone
else, and that has to be ok. And: our teachers might fail; we might not be
ready to learn.  Still, the opportunity to learn from the unfamiliar is
valuable, and deserves respect.


Now I'm not remarkably qualified on the electronica front, (after all, I've
played guitar since I was 7 and spend most of my time playing jazz and
blues) But a lot of music I've heard there has really turned my head around
and opened up new ideas. A lot of this has already been mentioned here,
actually. So some things to check out, homework if you will, would be dj
spooky, dj shadow, dj krush, Buckethead's Day of the Robot w/dj ninj or his
current group with dj disc (a little guitar crossover :-) ), the orb,
future sound of london, aphex twin, underworld, orbital, meat beat
manifesto, and even David Torn's what means solid, traveller. Some older
stuff that really mattered to me includes Ministry, skinny puppy, the
beastie boys, public enemy, front 242, and kmfdm.

This acually represents a very wide range of music, but even so, totally
misses entire categories of "electronica." Others will hopefully be better
able to add good examples.


>For that matter, point out the killer bassoon solo...

I like the way bassoon sounds, why are putting that one down? After playing
guitar all my life, working for a guitar company, and generally being with
it forever, I would be quite happy to spend a year listening to bassoon!


>Seems to me there's a profound difference between generalizing about
>instruments and generalizing about people.  Motley was talking about
>instruments.

Choosing a musical instrument is a very personal decision. Putting down an
instrument means putting down someone who made that choice. That's why some
of us get so worked up about it.

Looping obviously appeals to a wildly divergent group of people, with some
stunningly different interests and backgrounds. Yet somehow we all have
looping as a common thread. We should be exploring that! So much to learn
from each other, so little time here. Let's not waste it on foolishness.

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 07:18:11 -0400
From: Mark@asisoftware.com (Mark Kata)
To: 'Loopers Delight' <loopers-delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: DJs as Musicians
Message-ID: <01BCA6EF.E5E95540@mark.asisoftware.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I've found the debate about whether DJs are musicians to be very interesting.

When I first heard and saw a DJ scratching, I thought all you had to do was scratch an LP and rotate it backwards and forwards.  It appeared to be easy and many times I thought the DJ was pantomiming to a pre-recorded tape.

Then I heard a DJ Spooky CD that was recommended on Loopers Delight last winter.  I was simply amazed.  It hit me as hard as Side 2 of "Abbey Road" by the Beatles, "Birds of Fire" by the Mahavishnu Orchestra, "No Pussyfooting" by Fripp and Eno, and "BloodSugarSexMagic" by the Red Hot Chilli Peppers.

As a guitarist, I could understand how these records were made and copy the guitar, bass and keyboard parts from them.  However, I had no idea how DJ Spooky created his CD.  This is my general reaction to most DJs.

It amazes me how they are able to find, sample and collate all of the recordings, samples and effects and create a cohesive piece of art.

Could I listen to DJs all day?  No.  But then I couldn't listen to any one thing all day.  I like lots of variety in the music that I listen to, and I try to approach each new wrinkle in music with an open mind.  There's usually something that I can learn from it.

Are DJs musicians in the traditional sense?  I don't know, but perhaps it is better to approach them as composers in the sense that the pioneers of musique concrete were composers who manipulated tape into complete compositions.

Thank God that the human mind can conceive of and implement new types of music.

Mark Kata
Mark@asisoftware.com

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 14:26:04 +0200
From: Leonardo Cavallo <LEO@DINONET.IT>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: life's loops and open minds
Message-ID: <19970812122603328.AAA185@Default>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Thanks to Fred Marshall

Not only DJs.... some E-mails too can be really crative and inspiring....


CIAO
leo

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:36:32 -0400
From: David Kirkdorffer <DKirkdorffer@exapps.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: RE: Ambient effects -- something wild and crazy, please!
Message-ID: <30C4F9E5EBE1D0118B760000C0DD100F18E97D@mail.exapps.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

I too am looking for a few good effect processors for my ambient
UNDOings.

I don't need the standards: chorus, flange, delay, pitch-shift.  I'm
looking for DRASTIC effects rendering a guitar very UN-guitar-like.  I
have a Vortex already -- now I quest for something more wild.  

Loop-folk, you're my best source honest assessments.

Your help greatly appreciated!

David Kirkdorffer
UNDO


> -----Original Message-----
> From:	patrick@his.com [SMTP:patrick@his.com]
> Sent:	Monday, August 11, 1997 3:20 PM
> To:	Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> Subject:	Re: Ambient effects
> 
> On 8/11/97 Namelss queried;
> 
> >Okay, so let's not tear into me because I used the a-word, but what
> do you
> >find to be the best effects (and what hardware) for your less
> rhythmic
> >looping (how's that to replace the a-word?)?
> 
> First off I love the a-word......and for my ambient loops ( generated
> with
> my jam men)  I love to run them through my vortex and then add some
> reverb.
> I also have run side of my vortex feeding a Roland RPS-10. I add a bit
> more
> delay with this or add some pitch shifting...particularly if the loop
> is
> kind of dense the pitch shifter if changed slowly can be nice......or
> I can
> bypass the RPS-10.
> 
> Lately I've been running  loops and or sounds through I Sherman
> Filterbank
> I picked up used.Then I run this into the Vortex. This can get real
> crazy
> real fast.
> 
> 
> Peace,
> 
> Patrick
> 
> 
>  ***  ***    ** Fingerpaint http://www.his.com/~patrick/FNGP.html  ***
> **
> 
>   

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 10:04:33 -0400
From: Mark@asisoftware.com (Mark Kata)
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: Ambient effects -- something wild and crazy, please!
Message-ID: <01BCA707.26112A00@mark.asisoftware.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I have found these to be fairly wild effects:

- Boss RPS-10 - Reverses and/or pitch shifts an audio signal.

- Digitech IPS-33B - Generates arpeggios from a single note or provides strange harmonies.  (You must program your own weirdness, the factory programs are pretty tame.)

- Ring Modulator - especially weird if you vary the carrier frequency (available in the Alesis Quadraverb Plus).

- Tremelo - using a square wave and 100% mix causes the signal to abruptly turn off and on.

- ADA Flanger - its controls are very wide ranging and at extreme settings, the effect obliterates the input signal.

- Eventide Ultraharmonizer - if you have a zillion dollars . . .

Also, Digitech/DOD has just introduced a new pedal called the Mouth or the Voice.  It offers vocoder and talk box effects.  See the ad in the most recent issue of Guitar World.  It includes a 1-800 number for an audio demonstration.

Also, you might want to check out Andy Butler's Vortex website.  It includes Vortex patches and morphs.

Mark Kata
Mark@asisoftware.com

----------
From: 	David Kirkdorffer[SMTP:DKirkdorffer@exapps.com]
Sent: 	Tuesday, August 12, 1997 9:36 AM
To: 	Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: 	RE: Ambient effects -- something wild and crazy, please!

I too am looking for a few good effect processors for my ambient
UNDOings.

I don't need the standards: chorus, flange, delay, pitch-shift.  I'm
looking for DRASTIC effects rendering a guitar very UN-guitar-like.  I
have a Vortex already -- now I quest for something more wild.  

Loop-folk, you're my best source honest assessments.

Your help greatly appreciated!

David Kirkdorffer
UNDO


> -----Original Message-----
> From:	patrick@his.com [SMTP:patrick@his.com]
> Sent:	Monday, August 11, 1997 3:20 PM
> To:	Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> Subject:	Re: Ambient effects
> 
> On 8/11/97 Namelss queried;
> 
> >Okay, so let's not tear into me because I used the a-word, but what
> do you
> >find to be the best effects (and what hardware) for your less
> rhythmic
> >looping (how's that to replace the a-word?)?
> 
> First off I love the a-word......and for my ambient loops ( generated
> with
> my jam men)  I love to run them through my vortex and then add some
> reverb.
> I also have run side of my vortex feeding a Roland RPS-10. I add a bit
> more
> delay with this or add some pitch shifting...particularly if the loop
> is
> kind of dense the pitch shifter if changed slowly can be nice......or
> I can
> bypass the RPS-10.
> 
> Lately I've been running  loops and or sounds through I Sherman
> Filterbank
> I picked up used.Then I run this into the Vortex. This can get real
> crazy
> real fast.
> 
> 
> Peace,
> 
> Patrick
> 
> 
>  ***  ***    ** Fingerpaint http://www.his.com/~patrick/FNGP.html  ***
> **
> 
>   

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:58:23 -0400
From: "Siobhan Canty" <siocanty@cfpa.org>
To: "Looping" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Context
Message-Id: <13594686005150@cfpa.org>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

1)  Just as visual art is not judged by the brushes used to create it,
music should not be judged by the physical object from which it eminiates. 

2)  I think that the subject of context has gone largely undiscussed in
this conversation.  What makes a musician great - whether it be a
guitarist, singer, matchbook player, whatever - is a communicated
understanding of context.  An artist in any medium should possess a
historical knowledge of that genre and strive to make a statement within
that context.  That is why art communicates through time.

That is also why a "valid musician" is one who has studied his or her craft
well 
enough to understand the arsenal of techniques at his or her disposal and
who 
combines those with his own sensibilities to create a sound which stands 
the test of time simply by virtue of making an educated statement.  

Now, don't assume that the historical context of every genre is extensive. 

(ie: the age of a medium does not equal its worth)
Take, for instance, the DJ.  Social changes - in everything from technology

to the economy - had created a new voice that was not being expressed...
urban, high tech, frustrated, etc.  So a new language was created; one
which rightfully  reflects not only these qualities and more, but one that
also re-hashes elements of past music and sound bytes - just the way we all
live now 
(flower-power retro re-hash).  This process has happened throughout
history.  
Its just that now we are hearing a message from the last half of the 20th
century using the tools we now have available.  

This filtering of context through contemporary sensibilities
gives us the ability to recognize the DJ as being as valid as Ry Cooder as
valid
as Satie as valid as Bach.  The brushes they used may have been different
but the context in which each of them contributes is undeniable.

--------------------------------