------------------------------
Loopers-Delight-d Digest				Volume 97 : Issue 133

Today's Topics:
  Guitar good, DJ's bad, etc (was LOOP  [ Michael Hughes <pycraft@elec.gla.ac ]
  Re: Bassoon Uber Alles                [ Paolo Valladolid <pvallado@wayneswo ]
  Re: Bassoon Uber Alles                [ Jim Coker <jcoker@interaccess.com> ]
  Re: LOOPING PHILOSOPHY (condensed)    [ Dave Stagner <dstagner@icarus.net> ]
  Re: Guitar good, DJ's bad, etc (was   [ future perfect <artmusic@gte.net> ]
  Re: Travis' comments: Cream et. al.   [ Warren Sirota <wsirota@wsdesigns.co ]
  Re: Guitar good, DJ's bad, etc (was   [ Paolo Valladolid <pvallado@wayneswo ]
  Re: Guitar good, DJ's bad, etc (was   [ "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.c ]
  Re: Guitar good, DJ's bad, etc (was   [ future perfect <artmusic@gte.net> ]
  Re: Guitar good, DJ's bad, etc (was   [ "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.c ]
  Lexicon JamMan for sale               [ Sean Malone <malone@arts.usf.edu> ]
  Re: Bassoon Uber Alles                [ "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.c ]
  Ring Mods...                          [ Kevin Simonson <simonson@uis.edu> ]
  Re: Guitar good, DJ's bad, etc (was   [ "Matt McCabe" <mattm@bi-tech.com> ]
  Re: Travis' comments: Cream et. al.   [ "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.c ]
  Re: Guitar good, DJ's bad, etc (was   [ Paolo Valladolid <pvallado@wayneswo ]
  RE: RE: Ambient effects -- something  [ "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.c ]

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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 20:20:19 +0100 (BST)
From: Michael Hughes <pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Guitar good, DJ's bad, etc (was LOOPING PHILOSOPHY)
Message-Id: <2684.199708121920@eestud1.elec>

> Why is it that in rock music, there's an acute shortage of "keyboard 
> heroes", in the same sense that say, Jeff Beck is a guitar hero?  How 
> many breathtaking solos can you recall that were generated by something 
> with a piano-keyboard interface?

Keith Emerson?
Hell, he even smashes the keyboard up at the end of the gig!

Failing that, no.  there's a limit to how cool you can look sitting down, 
and no, upright controllers don't count.

Fave kbd solo in a rock song? "Incommunicado", Marillion.

> Will say, Art of Noise records be referred back to in twenty years in the 
> same way that Cream records are?  

Only if there's any justice left.

Michael

(sig on holiday)

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 12:37:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paolo Valladolid <pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Bassoon Uber Alles
Message-Id: <199708121937.MAA15665@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> >> I think John P. may have (and if not, I am) been referring not to works 
> >> written for unaccompanied bassoon, or featuring the bassoon, but rather 
> >> spontaneous realtime composition and performance over a pre-decided 
> >> backing, i.e., a hot bassoon solo in the pop music sense.
> >
> >All John requested was "Point out a killer bassoon solo" to which
> >Dave complied.  Sorry to nitpick but he didn't specify a pop music
> >context. 
> >
> >Even if he did, does it really matter?  A killer bassoon solo is a killer
> >solo regardles of genre.
> 
> The definition of a "solo" varies by genre.  A "solo" in the classical 
> music genre most often refers to a precomposed (by someone other than the 
> instrumentalist) section of music.  I believe a cadenza is the term for 
> an improvised solo performance, but I think that this is usually 
> unaccompanied, and occurs at the beginning or end of a composed piece.
> 
> A "solo" in pop-derived music (including for this purpose, jazz) usually 
> refers to something composed by the instrumentalist, usually in some 
> semblance of realtime.  In a live context (to kill the topic of 
> punch-in's or comp'ed performances), it's usually improvised, perhaps 
> using previous improvisations as a guide or starting place.  Following 
> the jazz tradition, I would say that in it's purest sense, the "solo" 
> within pop music is different each time.
> 
> I think a good case can also be made that most "solos" in pop-music are 
> ego-driven displays, designed to cut heads, or earn the Blow Job (as 
> Zappa said).  To deny this is noble, but inaccurate.  
> 
> Travis

I am not an expert on classical music, but most of the descriptive literature 
(liner notes, critiques, etc.) I've read on Western classical music 
use the word "solo" to refer to a melody line that highlights a particular
instrument during a particular piece.  For example (paraphrased from
memory): "Here in the 14th measure, the flute _solo_ evokes..."
A solo is a solo whether it is improvised or not.

After all, there are quite a number of solos from the jazz genre that
are precomposed (e.g. works from Duke Ellington, the guy who wrote 
"Powerhouse", "The Penguin", and other tunes that show up in Bug Bunny
cartoons; others).

Heck, even in pop a lot of solos are precomposed.

Paolo Valladolid
 ---------------------------------------------------------------
|Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list	|\ 
|for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments 			| \
 ----------------------------------------------------------------  |
\ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info		 \ |
 \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html		  \| 
  -----------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 14:42:48 -0700
From: Jim Coker <jcoker@interaccess.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Bassoon Uber Alles
Message-ID: <33F0D8D8.897E58BD@interaccess.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Q. What is a burning oboe good for?

A. Lighting a bassoon.

(courtesy of the NYTimes recent articles on an ergonomically customized
viola)

Also:

Q. Whats the difference between a viola and a trampoline?
 A. With the trampoline, you take your shoes off before you jump on it.

couldn't resist.

Jim

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 14:40:30 -0500 (CDT)
From: Dave Stagner <dstagner@icarus.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: LOOPING PHILOSOPHY (condensed)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.970812142945.15828C-100000@icarus.icarus.net>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, Michael Pycraft Hughes, PhD wrote:

> Yes, but a guitarst on his own is pretty imited.  There aren't many solo
> electric guitar peices worth listening to.  A DJ can tale the sounds of an
> orchestra, a funk band and NY art-scronk and come up with something
> huge-sounding.  People playing musical instruments will always need to use
> other players to fill out the sound - drummers, bassists, thumb-pianists...
> which is almost what the DJ is doing.

I don't think the point of playing with other musicians is to fill out
MY sound.  Although I'm sure it wasn't your intent, it does come close
to another branch of guitar arrogance... the idea that the "rhythm
section" is there to provide a beat for the guitarist to jack off
over.  That's just dull to me.  I play guitar by myself most of the
time, out of pragmatism.  A big reason for looping is to be able to
accompany yourself.  

When I play with other musicians, it is for *collaboration*, not
support.  I play differently in response to the musicians I am playing
with.  If all that matters is a full sound, then I should play the
same with any random drummer.  But I don't.  I play differently with
every drummer, depending on how each one approaches the beat, makes
tone, creates fills, etc.  In other words, I play with other musicians
in order to create music I cannot create on my own... not for lack of
"fill", but for lack of the intellectual stimulation of other artists.

> > A 7 note thumb piano is not as capable of
> > expressing human emotion as a tenor saxophone.
> 
> A saxophone cannot sound as delicate and childlike as a thumb piano.

Each instrument expresses things other instruments cannot express.
And a good musician can express unique music on ANY instrument.
Forget the snobbery of "expressiveness", and look at the capabilities
and limitations of the instrument.  A thumb piano can play chords.  A
sax cannot.  A sax can vary notes dynamically.  A thumb piano cannot.
Each has its own tone and capabilities.  Must we debate which is
"better"?  There is so much music to express... use the instruments
needed to express it!

-dave

By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete.
Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. 
Venus De Milo.
To a child she is ugly.       /* dstagner@icarus.net */
   -Charles Fort              

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:40:52 -0400
From: future perfect <artmusic@gte.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Guitar good, DJ's bad, etc (was LOOPING PHILOSOPHY)
Message-ID: <33F0BC44.59BE@gte.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Michael Hughes wrote:
> 
> > Why is it that in rock music, there's an acute shortage of "keyboard
> > heroes", in the same sense that say, Jeff Beck is a guitar hero?   
 
Rick Wakeman
Jon Lord
Tony Banks
Jan Hammer

-- 
********************************************************************* 
'Future Perfect' - progressive art music - visit our website at:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/8082 
"Nothing worthwhile is achieved suddenly"  -Robert Fripp

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 12:41:49 -0700
From: Warren Sirota <wsirota@wsdesigns.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Travis' comments: Cream et. al.
Message-ID: <33F0BC7D.73D7@wsdesigns.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Travis said:

> Will say, Art of Noise records be referred back to in twenty years in the
> same way that Cream records are?
Interesting question. Probably not, but I think that has more to do with
timing than anything else. Remember when it was possible to stay aware
of most major rock releases and even to buy a good proportion of them
(at least when you include your friends)? That's when Disraeli Gears
came out. By the time the Art of Noise came out, the record title glut
was well underway. Regardless of relative merits, but this gave the
Cream record a far higher historical visibility.

> No instrument can do everything.  It is not an admission of weakness or a
> lack of vision to concede this.

Well put.
 
> Why is it that it's "Guitar *Player* Magzine", and "Bass *Player*
> Magazine", and then "Keyboard Magazine"?  Why no "Keyboard *Player*
> Magazine"?

I don't know. You must have a theory and expect us to understand
implicitly what that is by now, but it's a mystery to me.

> Do you suspect that I'm a Guitar Bigot, or just trying to cause trouble?

I would prefer the latter, given a choice.

-- 
Yours truly,
Warren Sirota aka "Mr. Cozmik Perspektiv"
musician, programmer, writer
http://wsdesigns.com/wsirota

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 12:44:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paolo Valladolid <pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Guitar good, DJ's bad, etc (was LOOPING PHILOSOPHY)
Message-Id: <199708121944.MAA15720@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On the subject of a hierarchy of expressive instruments:

I'd rather hear Gary Burton on vibes (considered by some of you to be
less expressive than guitar/sax/etc.) than another bad imitation of
Jimmy Page on guitar or that awful sax player who couldn't even play
in tune with that mediocre lite jazz band I saw several years ago.


Paolo Valladolid
 ---------------------------------------------------------------
|Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list	|\ 
|for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments 			| \
 ----------------------------------------------------------------  |
\ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info		 \ |
 \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html		  \| 
  -----------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 97 14:45:02 -0000
From: "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.com>
To: "Looper's Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Guitar good, DJ's bad, etc (was LOOPING PHILOSOPHY)
Message-Id: <199708121942.MAA05168@apple.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

>> Why is it that in rock music, there's an acute shortage of "keyboard 
>> heroes", in the same sense that say, Jeff Beck is a guitar hero?  How 
>> many breathtaking solos can you recall that were generated by something 
>> with a piano-keyboard interface?
>
>Keith Emerson?
>Hell, he even smashes the keyboard up at the end of the gig!
>
>Failing that, no.  there's a limit to how cool you can look sitting down, 
>and no, upright controllers don't count.

Yeah, but that coolness doesn't come through the radio speakers, and as I 
sit here mentally reviewing the last thirty years of pop music, I'm hard 
pressed to come up with more than a handful of keyboard solos.  Even in 
ELP's hits, I'm not remembering the solos, except for "Lucky Man", which 
I don't like, and I've seen Keith disavow it many a time.  
There's no "Eruption", that I know of, in the keyboard world--a recorded 
moment which changed the way the instrument, and the role of the 
instrument would be viewed for the next decade.  Even if you hated what 
followed Van Halen, you were in reaction to what was laid out in those 
three minutes.
Why is that?  I have my theories, but I'd like to hear from any keyboard 
players on the list.
>
>Fave kbd solo in a rock song? "Incommunicado", Marillion.

Ironically, Mark Kelly is one of my favorite keyboard players (along with 
Tony Banks [Genesis] and Greg Hawkes [The Cars]), and when I listen back 
through the Marillion catalog, I'm surprised at how many keyboard solos 
there were.  Still, I always got the impression that Steve Rothery (the 
guitarist, for those of you who aren't Marillion-aware) got the 
spotlight.  Perhaps that's because I'm primarily a guitarist (although I 
play keyboards as needed, and played piano as a kid).  And, Marillion 
wasn't that popular, certainly not in the States, and only as a large 
cult in Europe.  I'm looking for *hits* with keyboard solos, not because 
I think that sales are the most important thing, but because they are a 
measure of what large numbers of people like. 

>
>> Will say, Art of Noise records be referred back to in twenty years in the 
>> same way that Cream records are?  
>
>Only if there's any justice left.

Don't bet on it.  Influential as Art of Noise has been on people who own 
and/or operatate synthesizers, I think they may end up in the category of 
"Historical Significance Only".  I mean, I think that the third Peter 
Gabriel album (with the melting face cover, includes "Games Without 
Frontiers" and "Biko") is ENORMOUSLY influential, enjoyable and worthy of 
praise, but I'm astounded at the number of people, even musicians with a 
stated interest in unusual, electronic pop music, who are unaware of or 
indifferent to it.  If nothing else, this is the album that 
singlehandedly introduced the gated reverb drum sound to the world, but 
it doesn't really matter in the end.  Civilians hear it and say 
"Nice...but I prefer 'So'."

Try this on for size: "Pretty Hate Machine" is a thousand times more 
likely for the MFS treatment, and made much more of an impact on 
musicians and the public at large.

Travis

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 16:03:43 -0400
From: future perfect <artmusic@gte.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Guitar good, DJ's bad, etc (was LOOPING PHILOSOPHY)
Message-ID: <33F0C19F.7963@gte.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> There's no "Eruption", that I know of, in the keyboard world--a recorded
> moment which changed the way the instrument, and the role of the
> instrument would be viewed for the next decade.  

Actually, there was an 'Eruption' of the Keyboard world...the first song
on ELP's 'Tarkus' album, and unlike VH's, this one's in 5.
Dave
  
-- 
********************************************************************* 
'Future Perfect' - progressive art music - visit our website at:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/8082 
"Nothing worthwhile is achieved suddenly"  -Robert Fripp

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 97 15:12:55 -0000
From: "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.com>
To: "Looper's Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Guitar good, DJ's bad, etc (was LOOPING PHILOSOPHY)
Message-Id: <199708122010.NAA21496@apple.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

>On the subject of a hierarchy of expressive instruments:
>
>I'd rather hear Gary Burton on vibes (considered by some of you to be
>less expressive than guitar/sax/etc.) than another bad imitation of
>Jimmy Page on guitar or that awful sax player who couldn't even play
>in tune with that mediocre lite jazz band I saw several years ago.

I don't think anyone can argue with statements such as "I'd rather hear a 
really good musician on one instrument than a really bad one on another". 
 
It might be more interesting to compare musicians at the top of the skill 
spectrum, rather than at opposing ends.  

Travis

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 16:12:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Sean Malone <malone@arts.usf.edu>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, stickwire-l@netcom.com
Subject: Lexicon JamMan for sale
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.970812154414.5826A-100000@satie>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

For Sale:
Lexicon JamMan

-Upgraded to 32 seconds of delay

-2 footpedals

-manual, power supply and cables

asking $350, buyer pays shipping. Please respond privately

sm

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 97 15:15:53 -0000
From: "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.com>
To: "Looper's Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Bassoon Uber Alles
Message-Id: <199708122013.NAA35228@apple.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

>> A "solo" in pop-derived music (including for this purpose, jazz) usually 
>> refers to something composed by the instrumentalist, usually in some 
>> semblance of realtime.  In a live context (to kill the topic of 
>> punch-in's or comp'ed performances), it's usually improvised, perhaps 
>> using previous improvisations as a guide or starting place.  Following 
>> the jazz tradition, I would say that in it's purest sense, the "solo" 
>> within pop music is different each time.
>> 
>> I think a good case can also be made that most "solos" in pop-music are 
>> ego-driven displays, designed to cut heads, or earn the Blow Job (as 
>> Zappa said).  To deny this is noble, but inaccurate.  
>> 
>> Travis
>
>I am not an expert on classical music, but most of the descriptive 
>literature 
>(liner notes, critiques, etc.) I've read on Western classical music 
>use the word "solo" to refer to a melody line that highlights a particular
>instrument during a particular piece.  For example (paraphrased from
>memory): "Here in the 14th measure, the flute _solo_ evokes..."
>A solo is a solo whether it is improvised or not.
>
>After all, there are quite a number of solos from the jazz genre that
>are precomposed (e.g. works from Duke Ellington, the guy who wrote 
>"Powerhouse", "The Penguin", and other tunes that show up in Bug Bunny
>cartoons; others).
>
>Heck, even in pop a lot of solos are precomposed.

Yes, but pre-composed in the sense that the composer and the performer 
are often the same person.  The solo may have been "composed" through 
multiple takes, keeping the parts that worked, perhaps incorporating the 
suggestions of band members, producers etc, but not by writing notes on a 
staff, the way that classical music "composes" solos. 

Think about the amazing amount of attention that guitarists pay to 
solos--why is that?  In pop music, a solo may only occupy 10% of a song.  
90% of the time a guitarist is playing rhythm--why so much energy spent 
on considering solos?  

Travis

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:13:36 -0600 (CDT)
From: Kevin Simonson <simonson@uis.edu>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Ring Mods...
Message-Id: <199708122013.AA177056816@eagle.uis.edu>
Content-Type: text
Content-Length:       1162

Howdy...

Analog Man is currently the US dealer for Black Cat ring modulators, which
are supposedly an improved version of the old Maestro unit.  I believe that
they sell for $299.  Check out the web page.  Paia sells a kit, but I think
it may be of questionable quality.  I once owned a WD Green Ringer unit that
provided 'RIng Mod effects' but was more of a wacky mean fuzz unit.

Someone also mentioned that the SYB pedal 'freaks out' as it attempts to
track chords.  I get a similar effect out of hooking a Korg MS-03 (pitch/CV
converter, essentially x-911 guts w/o the VCO's) to the filter pedal input
of a GR-300.  Nice chaos.


-- 
Kevin Simonson                      * AS/400 Application Development Team
U of I Springfield/Computer Science * Norwest Mortgage, Inc.
simonson@eagle.uis.edu    /=========* Springfield, IL
   ____/=====/_/======/__/__________        /
  /9 9/\   /9 9/\   /  / 99 //    /\      _/____________________
 /   / /  /   / /  /  9 // 99    / /	  |  _   ======  . .   |'mmmmmmmmmm..        
/ @ / /  /_@_/ /  /_@__@__@__@__/ /       | (_)  ======  . .   | ..GR300'
\ - \/   \___\/   \_____________\/        |____________________|

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 13:23:32 -0700
From: "Matt McCabe" <mattm@bi-tech.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Guitar good, DJ's bad, etc (was LOOPING PHILOSOPHY)
Message-Id: <199708122024.NAA23881@gw1.bi-tech.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> >> Why is it that in rock music, there's an acute shortage of "keyboard 
> >> heroes", in the same sense that say, Jeff Beck is a guitar hero?  How 
> >> many breathtaking solos can you recall that were generated by
something 
> >> with a piano-keyboard interface?

Anyone remember the Fixx????

Listen to any one of their albums and you'll hear some pretty darn cool
keyboard solos.  

Matt

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 97 15:26:22 -0000
From: "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.com>
To: "Looper's Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Travis' comments: Cream et. al.
Message-Id: <199708122024.NAA20622@apple.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

>Travis said:
>
>> Will say, Art of Noise records be referred back to in twenty years in the
>> same way that Cream records are?
>Interesting question. Probably not, but I think that has more to do with
>timing than anything else. Remember when it was possible to stay aware
>of most major rock releases and even to buy a good proportion of them
>(at least when you include your friends)? That's when Disraeli Gears
>came out. By the time the Art of Noise came out, the record title glut
>was well underway. Regardless of relative merits, but this gave the
>Cream record a far higher historical visibility.

Yes, but I think there should still be a "canon" of important 
synthesizer/sequencer-based records developing.  Again, I'd love for 
keyboard players  on the list to suggest some titles.  Take "Switched On 
Bach"--the historical importance of this can't be denied, but does anyone 
actually listen to it anymore?  What are the significant albums that are 
of lasting enjoyment?  I'm always up for someone's recommendations for 
music that changed their life, so please share.  If you're a musician who 
doesn't use guitar as your primary instrument, please speak up with your 
recommendations.

>
>> No instrument can do everything.  It is not an admission of weakness or a
>> lack of vision to concede this.
>
>Well put.
> 
>> Why is it that it's "Guitar *Player* Magzine", and "Bass *Player*
>> Magazine", and then "Keyboard Magazine"?  Why no "Keyboard *Player*
>> Magazine"?
>
>I don't know. You must have a theory and expect us to understand
>implicitly what that is by now, but it's a mystery to me.

I'm not entirely sure.  I was hoping that you, Warren, would have some 
insight, since I think you've written for two of the three mentioned.  
My off the cuff theory would be that the focus in GP and BP is on 
players, and in KB, the machinery.  The advent of MIDI made things so 
much more complicated that I could see a sizable market for a magazine 
that did nothing other than evaluate gear in an intelligent manner.  I 
used to read KB regularly, and my recollection was that there was much 
more discussion of programming and sequencing software, and keeping the 
trainset running than appeared in GP at the time.  Given the complexity 
of say, getting Cakewalk to sync to tape and controll three modules and a 
drum machine versus getting a crunchy rhythm tone on a Super Plexi, this 
makes sense to me.

It also seemed strange to me, though, that the average reader's letter to 
the editor in KB was about five times longer than those in GP, and a 
thousand times more intelligent than those in Guitar World (sample: 
"Dood--Yngwie fucking rules.  Steve Vai isn't fit to carry his Marshall.  
Singed, The Xterminator").   Again, the off the cuff theory was that KB 
letter writers were, uh, more thoughtful than their GP counterparts.  The 
letters seemed to be of a more philsophical bend, but the actual articles 
didn't seem to carry this non-gear orientation.  I do remember loving 
Freff's column, which always seemed sort of out of place (my apologies at 
this point to all of you who haven't been following the state of MI 
journalism for the last fifteen years--this probably seems needlessly 
obscure).

That said, GP seems to have been dumbed down in recent years, reflecting 
the declining interest in the technical aspects of guitar playing in pop 
music.  

Travis

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Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 13:25:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paolo Valladolid <pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Guitar good, DJ's bad, etc (was LOOPING PHILOSOPHY)
Message-Id: <199708122025.NAA16050@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> >On the subject of a hierarchy of expressive instruments:
> >
> >I'd rather hear Gary Burton on vibes (considered by some of you to be
> >less expressive than guitar/sax/etc.) than another bad imitation of
> >Jimmy Page on guitar or that awful sax player who couldn't even play
> >in tune with that mediocre lite jazz band I saw several years ago.
> 
> I don't think anyone can argue with statements such as "I'd rather hear a 
> really good musician on one instrument than a really bad one on another". 

Well, folks here have been discussing the relative merits of instruments
in terms of absolutes; which left me a lot of leverage.  ^_^
  
> It might be more interesting to compare musicians at the top of the skill 
> spectrum, rather than at opposing ends.  

Here I must respectfully bow out.  I don't see how anything is to be
gained discussing, for example, why Pat Metheny is a more expressive soloist
than Gary Burton because his instrument is "inherently more expressive".
I'd rather not go there myself. 


Paolo Valladolid
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Date: Tue, 12 Aug 97 15:30:05 -0000
From: "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.com>
To: "David Kirkdorffer" <DKirkdorffer@exapps.com>
cc: "Looper's Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: RE: Ambient effects -- something wild and crazy, please!
Message-Id: <199708122027.NAA25786@apple.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

>Travis - I tried the bass synth a few months ago and felt it was just
>lots of the same sound with slightly different clothes on.  Maybe I
>should give the thing another try!
>
>Thanks for the tip.

I got the same impression the first time I heard our bassist try it out.  
I had to sit with it for a half hour, cranking the knobs every which way 
to try and get a feel for what it could do.  
My impression was that it could do about three sounds with different 
variations on each.  Again, I was playing just a guitar straight into it, 
into an amp set either clean or distorted.  I'm positive that if I used 
it with my rig, I could get all sorts of truly wonderful things 
(particularly with some sort of compression/sustain in front of the unit, 
driving a Whammy Pedal).  

Travis

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