------------------------------
Loopers-Delight-d Digest				Volume 97 : Issue 135

Today's Topics:
  RE: Guitar good, DJ's bad, etc (was   [ "Ott, John" <John_Ott@ATK.COM> ]
  Re: Guitar good, DJ's bad, etc (was   [ "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.c ]
  Keyboards Uber Alles! (was Travis' A  [ "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.c ]
  Re: Guitar good, DJ's bad, etc (was   [ "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.c ]
  I just can't stop writing today...    [ Warren Sirota <wsirota@wsdesigns.co ]
  Re: Guitar good, DJ's bad, etc (was   [ Paolo Valladolid <pvallado@wayneswo ]
  Re: Bassoon Uber Alles                [ Paolo Valladolid <pvallado@wayneswo ]
  Re: Guitar good, keyboards bad        [ "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.c ]
  Re: Bassoon Uber Alles                [ improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) ]
  Re: I just can't stop writing today.  [ "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.c ]

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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 19:14:12 -0400
From: "Ott, John" <John_Ott@ATK.COM>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: Guitar good, DJ's bad, etc (was LOOPING PHILOSOPHY)
Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=ATK%l=EXCHANGE_WV1-970812231412Z-6332@exchange_wv1.ATK.COM>

>>>>>quote<<<<<<<
>----------
>From: 	Dave Stagner
>Reply To: 	Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>Sent: 	Tuesday, August 12, 1997 7:02 PM
>To: 	John_Ott@ATK.COM
>Subject: 	Re: Guitar good, DJ's bad, etc (was LOOPING PHILOSOPHY)
>
>On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, T.W. Hartnett wrote:
>
>> >> Will say, Art of Noise records be referred back to in twenty years in
>>the 
>> >> same way that Cream records are?  
>> >
>> >Only if there's any justice left.
>> 
>> Don't bet on it.  Influential as Art of Noise has been on people who own 
>> and/or operatate synthesizers, I think they may end up in the category of 
>> "Historical Significance Only".  I mean, I think that the third Peter 
>> Gabriel album (with the melting face cover, includes "Games Without 
>> Frontiers" and "Biko") is ENORMOUSLY influential, enjoyable and worthy of 
>> praise, but I'm astounded at the number of people, even musicians with a 
>> stated interest in unusual, electronic pop music, who are unaware of or 
>> indifferent to it.  If nothing else, this is the album that 
>> singlehandedly introduced the gated reverb drum sound to the world, but 
>> it doesn't really matter in the end.  Civilians hear it and say 
>> "Nice...but I prefer 'So'."
>
>Try applying this logic to Cream.  How many "civilians" have ever
>really listened to Robert Johnson?  All Cream did was electrify
>someone else's music.  It was enormously successful and popular, and
>for good reason.  That just shows that success is no measure of
>creativity or innovation, much less musical power. 
>
>-dave
>
<<<<<end quote>>>>>>

Gee, I always thought Eric Clapton wrote "Badge"
thanks for the correction.

I'm a civilian musician computer geek with a 
extensive Robert Johnson collection.  Never been in
the Military. 

I don't follow your logic at all here.  

I always thought Cream was successful because of the 
musicianship, creativity and innovation of Jack Bruce,
Ginger Baker and Eric Clapton.

Here it was all the work of Robert Johnson.

confused
john

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 97 18:22:12 -0000
From: "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.com>
To: "Looper's Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Guitar good, DJ's bad, etc (was LOOPING PHILOSOPHY)
Message-Id: <199708122319.QAA10436@apple.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

>> >> Will say, Art of Noise records be referred back to in twenty years in 
the 
>> >> same way that Cream records are?  
>> >
>> >Only if there's any justice left.
>> 
>> Don't bet on it.  Influential as Art of Noise has been on people who own 
>> and/or operatate synthesizers, I think they may end up in the category of 
>> "Historical Significance Only".  I mean, I think that the third Peter 
>> Gabriel album (with the melting face cover, includes "Games Without 
>> Frontiers" and "Biko") is ENORMOUSLY influential, enjoyable and worthy of 
>> praise, but I'm astounded at the number of people, even musicians with a 
>> stated interest in unusual, electronic pop music, who are unaware of or 
>> indifferent to it.  If nothing else, this is the album that 
>> singlehandedly introduced the gated reverb drum sound to the world, but 
>> it doesn't really matter in the end.  Civilians hear it and say 
>> "Nice...but I prefer 'So'."
>
>Try applying this logic to Cream.  How many "civilians" have ever
>really listened to Robert Johnson?  All Cream did was electrify
>someone else's music.  It was enormously successful and popular, and
>for good reason.  That just shows that success is no measure of
>creativity or innovation, much less musical power. 

I suppose this is a reference to Cream's versions of "Crossroads" (Robert 
Johnson, the live Cream version is often described [not by me] as the 
greatest rock electric guitar solo, ever), and of "Spoonfull" (Willy 
Dixon).  I believe that Cream's lasting impact stems more from "Sunshine 
Of Your Love", "White Room", "Strange Brew" (yes, the solo is ripped off 
from Albert King), "Tales Of Brave Ulysses", and "Badge".  All of those 
songs were written by Cream (and George Harrison, on "Badge").  Cream's 
other historical note is that they brought Eric Clapton's instrumental 
prowess to the attention of the world at large (previously, the Mayall 
Bluesbreakers were a cult band at best), and legitimized the concept of 
jamming onstage, in a rock context.  So many rock guitarists have cited 
Clapton's work in Cream as a major influence that I think it's grossly 
inaccurate to say that "all they did was electrify someone else's music".

Additionally, Cream sparked a backlash against the idea of the heavily 
amplified band, endlessly jamming.  Clapton himself has said that he read 
a review of the the Band's first, acoustic based album, and realised in 
that moment that the concept of Cream was dead.  He quits, and puts out 
his first solo album, where he plays down the Marshall bombast that he 
instigated.

Travis

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 97 18:28:23 -0000
From: "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.com>
To: "Looper's Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Keyboards Uber Alles! (was Travis' Annoying Thread)
Message-Id: <199708122326.QAA26744@apple.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

I respond to Kim Flint's welcome contribution:

>>> Why is it that in rock music, there's an acute shortage of "keyboard 
>>> heroes", in the same sense that say, Jeff Beck is a guitar hero?  
>
>Why is it, that in traditional african percussion ensembles, there is an
>acute shortage of tenor sax players? 

Ah, but keyboards are common in rock bands, whereas tenor saxes are rare 
on the continent of Africa.  Unless you're trying to say that part of the 
definition of a "rock band" is the presence of guitars, and the absence 
of keyboards, but I don't think that's what you're trying to say.

>
>Yet again, I have to wonder why some of you feel such an overwhelming need
>to prove that guitars (or bassoons, or whatever) are somehow so much better
>than other instruments. What purpose would proving that serve? They all do
>different things, and can make wonderful contributions in different
>contexts. Take the blinders off and enjoy it all.

I'm not trying to prove that guitars are better than other instruments.  
All sensible people recognized that position is naturally occupied by the 
banjo.
Seriously, what I'm wondering about is why does the guitar get pushed 
into the role of soloist within pop/rock music, almost to the exclusion 
of other instruments.

>
>>How 
>>> many breathtaking solos can you recall that were generated by something 
>>> with a piano-keyboard interface?
>>
>>Keith Emerson?
>>Hell, he even smashes the keyboard up at the end of the gig!
>
>Little Richard
>Jerry Lee Lewis
>Booker T
>Elton John
>Billy Joel
>Bernie Worell
>Kate Bush
>Tori Amos
>Trent Reznor

Noteworthy as all of the above artists are, I was looking for examples of 
specific solos, not just a list of admirable musicians who play 
keyboards.  
I'm not denying that these examples exist, I'm just looking for someone 
to point them out to me.
Offhand, I don't recall Kate Bush or Tori Amos ever stepping out on the 
88's, and the only thing that pops to mind for Reznor is that track off 
of Pretty Hate Machine with the refrain of "Maybe I'm all messed up in 
you".
>
>If there is a shortage of keyboard soloing in rock music, it's probably
>because egomaniacal keyboard players gravitate towards being concert
>pianists, or maybe jazz. Egomaniacal guitarists end up being yngwie
>malmsteen. Role models for the self-obsessed appear in different places,
>apparently. The team player/band member/song writer sort of piano player is
>more likely to be the one that wants to play in a rock band. A damn good
>thing, because I'd hate to see the rock band with John Tesh in it. 

And I don't think that soloing is by its nature, egomanical.  Ego mania 
is ego mania, but I don't think that the act of soloing is ego manical by 
default.  
I view the solo as the opportunity for the musician to stand up and say 
"everyone listen--I'm going to try something here, and it may be 
interesting".  Soloing can provide the opportunity to extend and expand 
the harmonic and melodic direction of the piece, as needed, as 
appropriate, in a way that the vocalist (the default audience focus in 
pop) cannot.  
The solo spot, composed or improvised, is also a way to vary the dynamic 
mood of the piece, and can, at its best, provide an opportunity for the 
instrumentalist to transcend themselves, and take the willing audience 
with them.
Naturally, this position can, and has often been abused.
>
>One of the refreshing things about the electronic/dance scene is the
>tendancy towards humility. In fact, many of the "heroes" go to length to
>downplay themselves, which is probably why they are not so well known.
>Having the urge to be the star and parade around in front of everybody is
>not necessarily the same as being creative, or expressing oneself, or just
>having a good time making music.

Nor is the "urge to be the star" necessarily the same as playing a solo.  
It's not required that the soloist provide a serious of dramatic motions 
and expressions in the course of the solo.  Again, the role of soloist 
has great potential for abuse.
>

Travis

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 97 18:31:08 -0000
From: "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.com>
To: "Looper's Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Guitar good, DJ's bad, etc (was LOOPING PHILOSOPHY)
Message-Id: <199708122328.QAA34304@apple.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

>> > There's no "Eruption", that I know of, in the keyboard world--a recorded
>> > moment which changed the way the instrument, and the role of the
>> > instrument would be viewed for the next decade.  
>> 
>> Actually, there was an 'Eruption' of the Keyboard world...the first song
>> on ELP's 'Tarkus' album, and unlike VH's, this one's in 5.
>> Dave
>>   
>There is also Eddie Jobson's "Presto Vivace" from his UK days. 
>An amazing piece.
>    Doug Michael

Now I'm confused--is the ELP piece actually called "Eruption"?
Is this, and the UK piece, considered a piece of music so influential to 
the keyboard world that teenagers play it to the considerable annoyance 
of music shop staff, family, and neighbors, or are these just pieces that 
you're pointing out as noteworthy keyboard statements that you personally 
enjoy?

Travis

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 16:46:18 -0700
From: Warren Sirota <wsirota@wsdesigns.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: I just can't stop writing today...
Message-ID: <33F0F5C9.8B21F3F9@wsdesigns.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> Subject: Guitar good, DJ's bad, etc (was LOOPING PHILOSOPHY)
> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 20:20:19 +0100 (BST)
> From: Michael Hughes <pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk>
> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>
> > Why is it that in rock music, there's an acute shortage of "keyboard
>
> > heroes", in the same sense that say, Jeff Beck is a guitar hero?
> How
> > many breathtaking solos can you recall that were generated by
> something
> > with a piano-keyboard interface?

Well, gee, doesn't anyone here listen to jazz? Art Tatum? Bill Evans?
Fats Waller? Keith Jarrett? Herbie Hancock? Oscar Peterson? There's
plenty of breathtaking stuff there. This does beg the question of why
there's such a paucity of great *rock* keyboard as compared to great
jazz keyboard.

Oh, maybe you mean, "why aren't there any great *synthesizer* solos?"
That's easy. Synthesizers suck. (just kidding - they don't suck totally.
but there are many, many ways in which they truly suck.)

> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Travis said:
>
> I'm not entirely sure.  I was hoping that you, Warren, would have some
>
> insight, since I think you've written for two of the three mentioned.

Thanks for noticing. :-)

> My off the cuff theory would be that the focus in GP and BP is on
> players, and in KB, the machinery.  The advent of MIDI made things so
> much more complicated that I could see a sizable market for a magazine
>
> that did nothing other than evaluate gear in an intelligent manner.  I
>
> used to read KB regularly, and my recollection was that there was much
>
> more discussion of programming and sequencing software, and keeping
> the
> trainset running than appeared in GP at the time.  Given the
> complexity
> of say, getting Cakewalk to sync to tape and controll three modules
> and a
> drum machine versus getting a crunchy rhythm tone on a Super Plexi,
> this
> makes sense to me.
>

Right, and this function devolved to KB because almost all synthesizers
had and have kbd interfaces. But Electronic Musician also sprang up to
fill this void, and it was started by a guitarist (Craig Anderton).--
Yours truly,
Warren Sirota
musician, programmer, writer
http://wsdesigns.com/wsirota

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 16:53:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paolo Valladolid <pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Guitar good, DJ's bad, etc (was LOOPING PHILOSOPHY)
Message-Id: <199708122353.QAA17386@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> >> > There's no "Eruption", that I know of, in the keyboard world--a recorded
> >> > moment which changed the way the instrument, and the role of the
> >> > instrument would be viewed for the next decade.  

"changed the way the instrument... would be viewed..."

This only applies to keyboard players.   

Just like "Eruption" changed the way the guitar is viewed... only in the
view of guitarists for the most part.  Is "Eruption" of any significance
at all to, say, drummers, or sax players?  How about music lovers who
don't play any instruments?

My guess is "No" for both questions.
 
> >> Actually, there was an 'Eruption' of the Keyboard world...the first song
> >> on ELP's 'Tarkus' album, and unlike VH's, this one's in 5.
> >> Dave
> >>   
> >There is also Eddie Jobson's "Presto Vivace" from his UK days. 
> >An amazing piece.
> >    Doug Michael
> 
> Now I'm confused--is the ELP piece actually called "Eruption"?

Come on Travis, you know better than that... ^_^

Just giving you a hard time, though I appreciate the Devil's Advocate
role you've assumed in these discussions (intentionally or not).

> Is this, and the UK piece, considered a piece of music so influential to 
> the keyboard world that teenagers play it to the considerable annoyance 
> of music shop staff, family, and neighbors, or are these just pieces that 
> you're pointing out as noteworthy keyboard statements that you personally 
> enjoy?
> 
> Travis

Going back to your "Eruption" example for guitarists, I'd say that piece
is only influential to guitar players and even then only to those who
actually care for it.  I just don't see guys like David Lindley or young
flamenco players giving two bits about "Eruption".


Paolo Valladolid
 ---------------------------------------------------------------
|Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list	|\ 
|for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments 			| \
 ----------------------------------------------------------------  |
\ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info		 \ |
 \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html		  \| 
  -----------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 17:06:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paolo Valladolid <pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Bassoon Uber Alles
Message-Id: <199708130006.RAA17436@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> >But the end result is the same.  The solo ends up set in stone, to be
> >recited in an identical manner with each new performance of the music
> >whether it be a pop song or a classical piece.  With a few exceptions 
> >(there are always exceptions) the solo does not change.  This contradicts
> >your earlier assertion that the pop solo always changes.
> 
> In my experience, the converse is true.  Except for things such as the 
> first solo in Pink Floyd's "Comfortably Numb", solos (and I suppose that 
> I'm speaking of guitar solos at this point, since I haven't been able to 
> recall a significant number of keyboard solos in pop/rock) are winged 
> each time.  Maybe they start the same, or there's an ending lick that it 
> moves towards, but usually not.  One of the things that I, and the 
> guitarists that I've run into look forward to in a solo is the chance to 
> make something new on the spot.  

This is probably more true pop music from the 70s or earlier.  More recent
pop solos that I have heard live are reproductions of the recorded versions.
You might recall a recent complaint by Eric Clapton that not enough players
today in rock are willing to solo in a truly off-the-cuff manner.

> >> Think about the amazing amount of attention that guitarists pay to 
> >> solos--why is that?  In pop music, a solo may only occupy 10% of a song.  
> >> 90% of the time a guitarist is playing rhythm--why so much energy spent 
> >> on considering solos?  
> >
> >Is this truly unique to guitar players?  How about sax players, keyboardists,
> >and other soloing musicians.
> > 
> Pop (non-jazz) keyboard players, on the other hand...I don't know.  I was 
> hoping that some keyboard players (those who view keyboards as their 
> primary instrument) would speak up regarding this.  Kim, as always, is 
> quick to defend non-guitar music from the Six String Klan, but I think 
> even he is more of a guitarist than a keyboard player.  

I too hope a keyboardist will speak up because none of the keyboard players
I have met were particularly interested in soloing in a pop context.
Maybe in a jazz context but of course we're not talking about jazz here.
Bass players I've met tended to be more impressed by a good bass groove
than ripping bass solos.

My guess is that because guitar is the featured instrument in rock and
pop (sorry, I can hardly tell the difference), the guitarist is 
expected to solo more than the keyboardist.

> Someone, I believe it was Kim, said that he enjoyed the more ego-free 
> attitude in dance/electronic music, and while I'm opposed to excessive 
> ego in any field, I've never been entirely convinced of the stance of  
> synth humility.  The whole "all solos are masturbatory, boring and 
> needless" is as groundless as "all dance music is boring, repititive and 
> needless".  I'd prefer that guitarists have less self-importance, and 
> keyboard players have more, to reach a happy mean.  Although, as far as I 
> can tell, the Age of Shred has been gone for some years now, and the 
> guitarist who wishes to flount his technical ability needs to go to the 
> independent labels that cater to metal.
> 
> Please, keyboard players, speak up.

Might I suggest the keyboardists in electronica _do_ solo, but not in the
way you'd expect to hear them?


Paolo Valladolid
 ---------------------------------------------------------------
|Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list	|\ 
|for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments 			| \
 ----------------------------------------------------------------  |
\ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info		 \ |
 \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html		  \| 
  -----------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 97 19:11:26 -0000
From: "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.com>
To: "Looper's Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Guitar good, keyboards bad
Message-Id: <199708130009.RAA12970@apple.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

In response to Dave Stagner:

>Guitar is the driving instrument of rock music.  If you switch genres,
>say to jazz or classical, guitar is not held in the same regard.  In
>jazz, the guitarist is the guy who has to switch to a one-chord vamp
>for his solo because he can't play changes.  Bleh.

In non-fusion Jazz, the guitarist is usually denied the option of 
distortion, the primary method of imparting sustain upon a sustain-poor 
instrument.  It's my contention that the ability to impart a voice-(as in 
the human voice)like quality to the sound is very, very desirable in a 
instrument being deployed in the soloist role.  The ability to hold, 
bend, and modulate a note touches people deeply, hence the violin, 
saxaphone, trumpet, distorted electric guitar's dominance of this role, 
in pop music.
If you've got an instrument that doesn't sustain, once you've played your 
note, you're sort of pressed into playing another...quickly.  The pianist 
can't just sit on a note for four bars, whereas the above instruments can.

>
>When Bill Frisell is praised in jazz circles, he's compared to
>Thelonius Monk, not Jim Hall or Wes Montgomery or Charlie Christian.
>Keyboardists and horn players dominate jazz.  Electric guitars just
>gave us fusion.

My impression is that in jazz, the role of soloist is dominated by horn 
players, particularly trumpet and sax.  Interviews I've seen with jazz 
guitarists usually mention their desire for the chordal abilities of 
pianists, and the expressiveness of the horn player.

Also, I don't think that Jim Hall, Wes Montgomery or Charlie Christian 
were playing one-chord vamps while the other guy took a chorus.
>
>Here's an experiment for all of you who think the guitar is such a
>be-all solo intrument... try tuning to EADGCF for a few weeks.
>Straight fourths across the fretboard.  You'll soon realize how much
>you've been letting the instrument play you, rather than the other way
>around.  All those blues licks that infect your vocabulary will fall
>apart when they can no longer be played in one position.  Stick with
>it, and you'll soon learn the harmonic advantages of this tuning,
>advantages the much-maligned keyboardists have always enjoyed.

Patterns and stale licks are possible in any tuning.  As someone who 
plays in CGDAEG, and who played in EADGBE for a decade, I'll tell you 
that all tunings have their pros and cons, and if you were a hack in 
Standard, you'll be a hack in any tuning until you decide to change the 
way you play.
And, I'd say that the layout of the piano keyboard strongly encourages 
you to play in C.  Straight fourths, or fifths or whatever you pick are 
much more logical that the black and white key combo on a piano.
No tuning is perfect for any one role, and the limitations you may find 
are more likely limitations in yourself, not the instrument.

Travis

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 17:45:25 -0800
From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Bassoon Uber Alles
Message-Id: <v01510102b01690f782c2@[128.193.5.48]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 11:52 AM 8/12/97, Paolo Valladolid wrote:
>> >International Double Reed Society
>> >Library Holdings - Music: Solo Bassoon
>> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >The following is music for Solo Bassoon. The entries in this list are
>> >sorted by Composer.
>>
>> (long list of works deleted)
>>
>> I think John P. may have (and if not, I am) been referring not to works
>> written for unaccompanied bassoon, or featuring the bassoon, but rather
>> spontaneous realtime composition and performance over a pre-decided
>> backing, i.e., a hot bassoon solo in the pop music sense.
>
>All John requested was "Point out a killer bassoon solo" to which
>Dave complied.  Sorry to nitpick but he didn't specify a pop music
>context.
>
>Even if he did, does it really matter?  A killer bassoon solo is a killer
>solo regardles of genre.
>
Hey, for some interesting use of bassoon in a rock context, albiet very
experimental, check out Lindsay Cooper with Henry Cow, killer stuff all.

________________________________________________________
Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org  : www.peak.org/~improv/

"...there will come a day when you won't have to use
gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in
your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper
type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em
together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em
together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire."
                                            -Sun Ra
________________________________________________________

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 97 19:46:46 -0000
From: "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.com>
To: "Looper's Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: I just can't stop writing today...
Message-Id: <199708130044.RAA29118@apple.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

I respond to Warren Sirota:


>>
>> > Why is it that in rock music, there's an acute shortage of "keyboard
>>
>> > heroes", in the same sense that say, Jeff Beck is a guitar hero?
>> How
>> > many breathtaking solos can you recall that were generated by
>> something
>> > with a piano-keyboard interface?
>
>Well, gee, doesn't anyone here listen to jazz? Art Tatum? Bill Evans?
>Fats Waller? Keith Jarrett? Herbie Hancock? Oscar Peterson? There's
>plenty of breathtaking stuff there. This does beg the question of why
>there's such a paucity of great *rock* keyboard as compared to great
>jazz keyboard.

Yes, I was hoping someone would answer that question, but I didn't want 
to ask it.  Again, where are the keyboardists on this list?  

>
>Oh, maybe you mean, "why aren't there any great *synthesizer* solos?"
>That's easy. Synthesizers suck. (just kidding - they don't suck totally.
>but there are many, many ways in which they truly suck.)

Many, many, many.  And it's baffling--the idea is so great, but much as I 
love and use synths, any individual model of synth seems to fall short of 
analog instruments (I can hear the artillery fire already).  They don't 
hold their value, they don't hold people's interest.  Synths don't seem 
to produce a sound which is complex enough to be fascinating over the 
course of years.   

I have a sneaking suspicion that some of the problems stem from the trend 
of using synthesizers to remove the "difficult" parts of making music.  A 
keyboard synthesizer makes it very easy to play a note--just press down 
the key and hold it.  Anyone can do it.  
The same isn't true of a violin, trumpet or guitar (and with an electric 
guitar feeding a high-gain amp, there's not inconsiderable technique 
required to play a rest). I think one of the sad truths of life is that 
if it's easy, it's probably not worth much.

Likewise, a sequencer, while being a really great tool which I use all 
the time, also makes it very easy to generate a lot of tidy sonic 
information, in time and everything, without being able to play in real 
time.  While many people would like to believe that a Mozart dwells 
within each of us, and that it's only our clumsiness that prevents 
beautiful music from pouring out, I don't think that's the case.  

Just because someone can type, doesn't mean they can write well, and such 
is the case with music--the ability to sequence doesn't mean that you're 
producing good music.  However, for years now, keyboards and sequencing 
software have been sold, often using sales pitches along the lines of 
"beautiful sounds, right out of the box", and "write music you couldn't 
perform in real time".  It's been long enough now that a generation of 
"keyboard players" have come up who, uh, can't play very well.  You can 
have all sorts of fun by yourself with sequencers, but if you can't 
interact in real time with other musicians, or before an audience, you 
might want to seriously re-examine your position.

Travis

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