------------------------------
Loopers-Delight-d Digest				Volume 97 : Issue 138

Today's Topics:
  Re: Guitar good, keyboards bad        [ Kim Corbet <kcorbet@post.cis.smu.ed ]
  JamMan memory upgrade $65             [ Len Seligman <seligman@mitre.org> ]
  Re: LOOPING, remember?                [ Kim Corbet <kcorbet@post.cis.smu.ed ]
  Re: OPINION SPAM                      [ Paolo Valladolid <pvallado@wayneswo ]
  Re: Guitar good, DJ's bad, etc (was   [ Paolo Valladolid <pvallado@wayneswo ]
  Re: Guitar good,etc,Now Jobson Solo   [ Marzzz@aol.com ]
  Re: OPINION SPAM                      [ Kim Flint <kflint@chromatic.com> ]
  help wanted -- technique tips, pleas  [ gorton@umich.edu (Russell Gorton) ]
  Re: help wanted -- technique tips, p  [ "Matt McCabe" <mattm@bi-tech.com> ]
  RE: help wanted -- technique tips, p  [ Mark@asisoftware.com (Mark Kata) ]
  Re: help wanted -- technique tips, p  [ "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.c ]
  Re: help wanted -- technique tips, p  [ james rhodes <sharkey@texas.net> ]
  Re: help wanted -- technique tips, p  [ james rhodes <sharkey@texas.net> ]
  Re: help wanted -- technique tips, p  [ Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com> ]
  using dashes in email                 [ Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com> ]
  Re: help wanted -- technique tips, p  [ improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) ]
  Jack West CD                          [ matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias  ]

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Kim Flint
kflint@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 13:15:48 -0500 (CDT)
From: Kim Corbet <kcorbet@post.cis.smu.edu>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Guitar good, keyboards bad
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9708131243.A32161-0100000@post.cis.smu.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

> Oh, yeah, in a previous incarnation I wanted to BE Jan Hammer, his stuff
> with Mahavishnu, and on Bolly Cobham's Spectrum record totally kills me.
................no doubt.  no chigging doubt.  Jan Hammer's keyboard work 
is THE thing that kept me in the keyboard game for the last 30 years.  
But even HE says the reason he prefered the mini-moog as his solo rig was 
because it sounded so much like a guitar...perhaps to blend with Mahajohn 
and violinist Jerry Goodman, who ALSO set up his sound w/wah-wah to sound 
like yet another guitar.  I remember seeing the Mahavishnu Orch in Memphis 
in '72 and was listening to J.M. play a seering solo and realized I was also 
hearing a rhythm guitar only to find Jerry over there chunking b9 chords 
in typical funky guitar style.

> Try sitting over McCoy Tyner's right shoulder, then tell me that "PLAYING
> the keyboard is boring", like all other things, it's the musician not
> instrument. Besides, maybe I'm just funny this way, but I *listen* to
> musicians, and could generally give a fuck about how they look when
> playing...
...........well, actually, I have sat close to the big man's shoulder at 
the Caravan, hoping to catch him breaking one of those huge low strings 
he's supposed to be capable of.  And that may explain why he generally 
plays with his back to the audience so you at least see Something 
happening....I congratulate you on being able to divorce yourself from 
how someone looks when they play.  I have trouble doing that.  When I 
watch myself play on tape, I always see some guy tweaking gear and not 
"reaching out" to the audience until I turn to more theatrical approach 
and start to move and work the crowd in an anarchistic way.  Maybe that's 
it...I think the guitar is so much more dramatic on stage than keyboard.
It's not a sound thing necessarily.  Perhaps another Live v. Recording 
issue.  But, come on, the nuance of string bending and pull offs and 
working the amp is so evocative compared to the stiffness of the typical 
keyboard.  I'm sorry, but mod wheels and pitch benders are totally lame.
Ribbon controlers.  When they get that more together, then, maybe.

> >I love my Nord keyboard, but for sheer playing pleasure, I'd much rather
> >PLAY my strat or P-bass or Modulus 5-string.  It just feeeels good, man.
> 
> But what is your main instrument? I mean, soloing, and doing it the level
> of Jan Hammer or Van Halen or whatever, takes a certain level of
> accomplishment on the instrument.  Could it be that the
> strat or modulus (I'm jealous, man, I love modulus basses) feels better
> because you play it better?
............................I grew up on accordion and trombone and the 
horn is definitely my main ax and though I've found a great set-up to 
fulfill my R&B soul, I've had the misfortune of growing up in the 
Rock and Roll era.  Although, frankly, I'm not a good guitarist (yet), 
my love for the instrument and it's expressive and technical potential
within the context of our culture and audience expectations gives guitar 
a significance and power beyond what would seem *normal*.  

I very much look forward to the day the Modulus feels as easy and 
natural as the horn does.  Hey, then maybe I'll change my mind about all 
this stuff.  No telling how much desire is affecting my attitude.

D   E      S       I          R            E         changes everything.

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 14:36:10 -0400
From: Len Seligman <seligman@mitre.org>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: JamMan memory upgrade $65
Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19970813143610.0070eb74@dharma.mitre.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I have an extra set of Motorola memory ICs for the JamMan which upgrade it
from 8 to 32 seconds of looping. I installed a set without any problem,
following the instructions in the JamMan manual.

Lexicon charges around $175 a set, but I found these at a chip graveyard;
the only hitch was I had to buy a bunch of chips.

I only have one set left, however, if multiple people respond and are
interested, I could make another buy.

Please respond directly to me and not to the whole list.

Thanks and happy looping,
Len Seligman

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 13:39:50 -0500 (CDT)
From: Kim Corbet <kcorbet@post.cis.smu.edu>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: LOOPING, remember?
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9708131354.C32161-0100000@post.cis.smu.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> It's actually completely against my nature to post this...

> ...police yourselves


Get up the side, let the man through.
                 - soul coughing

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 17:49:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paolo Valladolid <pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: OPINION SPAM
Message-Id: <199708140049.RAA24111@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Folks, don't forget Kim (our benevolent moderator/owner) specifically
asked us to try talking about something other than hardware for a 
change.  

Only he has the right to tell us what we can't and can talk about here.

Paolo Valladolid
 ---------------------------------------------------------------
|Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list	|\ 
|for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments 			| \
 ----------------------------------------------------------------  |
\ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info		 \ |
 \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html		  \| 
  -----------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 18:01:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paolo Valladolid <pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Guitar good, DJ's bad, etc (was LOOPING PHILOSOPHY)
Message-Id: <199708140101.SAA24257@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> Actually, I think there's a lot to be gained, because I think it's easy 
> to find consensus on the statement "Pat Metheny and Gary Burton are 
> equally expressive, despite the limitations of their respective 
> instruments", yet there's much criticism of various electronic 
> instruments and effects processors because of some niggling feature that 
> isn't present, be it 24-bit resolution, velocity sensitivity, only 8 
> seconds of sampling time, the inability to map all paramenters to CV 
> controllers, etc.  
> This list, and the MI in general, spend a great deal of time discussing 
> the technological aspects of instruments and music.  All variety of 
> equipment is criticized because of some perceived terminal flaw.  Look at 
> the piano--no pitch bending, only one sound, doesn't stay in tune, no 
> aftertouch sensitivity, no doubling of pitches--it's full of limitations 
> which would sink a synth, particularly if it cost $8k and weighed 500 
> pounds.
> If we can agree that Gary Burton might be able to get some meaningful 
> work done with an instrument as woeful and feature-poor as the vibes, 
> perhaps the rest of us might be able to make some headway with whatever 
> we have, despite the inability to, say, have three concurrent loops of 
> different length playing back at the same time.  Even if we're playing a 
> synthesizer.

Even so there's not much we can say other than the truly great artists
always transcend whatever we perceive as limitations in the tools they
use.  That's why any attempt to say whether, for example, Pat Metheny
is a more expressive musician than Gary Burton because of their respective
choices ot tools is not likely to be fruitful.

Perhaps it would be more fruitful to talk about how we can get maximum
expression from the tools we have at our disposal; which is a constant
topic of discussion on both this list and Digital Guitar. ^_^


Paolo Valladolid
 ---------------------------------------------------------------
|Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list	|\ 
|for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments 			| \
 ----------------------------------------------------------------  |
\ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info		 \ |
 \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html		  \| 
  -----------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 21:47:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Marzzz@aol.com
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Guitar good,etc,Now Jobson Solo
Message-ID: <970813214622_956417323@emout15.mail.aol.com>

In a message dated 8/13/97 1:35:31 PM, somebody wrote:

<<>There is also Eddie Jobson's "Presto Vivace" from his UK days. 
>An amazing piece.
>    Doug Michael
>
 Also his solo on Zappa's "I Promise Not To Come In Your Mouth" from Live
In New York [the title track of Lather is the same]. A beautiful song.>>

You can also add his Minimoog solo on the track "Rondevous 6:02" from the
live "Night After Night" album, and the semi-solo synth piece, "Alaska" from
the original UK album.....

Jobson was in the position to grasp the torch of keyboard playing from the
failing hands of Emerson and Wakeman, but the demise of the popularity of
"progressive rock" caused him to go into writing commercial jingles after
1985. No one else has even come close to his abilities and musicality (IMHO).
Well, he did win some Clio awards....but I can't help feeling disappointed by
the seemingly massive waste of an enourmous talent.

Marshall (out of lurk mode, keyboardist for 20-some years, guitarist for 3)

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 20:49:19 -0700
From: Kim Flint <kflint@chromatic.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: OPINION SPAM
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970814034919.0094c834@pop.chromatic.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 05:49 PM 8/13/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Folks, don't forget Kim (our benevolent moderator/owner) specifically
>asked us to try talking about something other than hardware for a 
>change.  
>
>Only he has the right to tell us what we can't and can talk about here.

Thanks Paolo, but I choose not to take that role. I'm really not interested
in any sort of dictatorial powers, and I won't stop anyone from saying
whatever they like. I leave it to you folks to figure out what will be
talked about here, and I leave it to all of you to keep it in line.  

PERSONALLY, I would prefer that we tried to keep the topic somewhere near
the subject of looping, since that's what the list is about and there isn't
any other place on the net to talk about that. (that I know of, anyway.)
There are plenty of other places for guitar players and keyboard players to
flame each other, or whatever it was yesterday. If you want to do that, feel
free, but please do it someplace more appropriate.

I also would personally prefer that we show more respect for the wide
variety of different approaches and styles of music represented here. We
have a great opportunity to learn from each other, and I'd hate to see that
spoiled becuase some poorly represented group gets tired of dealing with
immature tirades everytime they try to speak up.

I agree with the frustration Randy felt in posting this "opinion spam"
thread. Listening to someone go on and on and on and yet on some more about
why they don't like someone else's opinion, lifestyle, music, etc. is very
tedious. Nobody gains from that. I would much rather hear about something
you like and why you like it, so that I can learn to enjoy it too, without
it coming by way of an attack on somebody else.

thanks,

kim
 




________________________________________________________
Kim Flint		       408-752-9284
Mpact System Engineering       kflint@chromatic.com
Chromatic Research             http://www.chromatic.com

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 11:02:58 -0400
From: gorton@umich.edu (Russell Gorton)
To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com
Subject: help wanted -- technique tips, please
Message-Id: <v01530503b018cb878995@[198.110.68.52]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

This post is not about philosophy.

One of my MANY musical outlets is as utility man playing with the standard
power trio (drums bass strat).  This summer, my instruments of choice are a
Fender Rhodes model 73 piano and a Korean telecaster copy (affectionately
dubbed "telewanker".)

I would like to sync up a repeating sampled riff (from Rhodes or
telewanker), captured with an Echoplex DP, with the drummer.

So far, I've tried playing the riff, letting it loop on a monitor near the
drum kit, and seeing if he can follow along.  Things quickly get too loud
and we drift.

Then I tried using a momentary-switch pedal into the Beat sync jack, using
Mute-Multiply to "trigger" the loop start with the pedal.  Let drummer work
pedal.  This works, kinda, but there is ALWAYS a little delay between the
pedal kick and the start of the loop.  We've tried many ways to anticipate
this delay, record the loop differently, use a different make of pedal,
etc.  Very frustrating.

The question is: without MIDI clicks, how can a loop be synced into music
with live drums?  I'm looking for new APPROACHES to this problem
here...anyone?

Thanks...
--Russell Gorton

BTW: Travis Hartnett: you are obviously some guitar choade from Texas, the
state of sixty million guys who play Strat in crappy blues bar bands.  You
are in no position to make statements about the validity of keyboards as a
solo instrument, in rock or any other "style".  Just because Joe Bob
Billy's Stevie Ray Tribute Band (appearing live at the Spicy Iguana)
doesn't have some bespectacled wonk behind a stack of keyboard gear and
MIDI rack pieces, doesn't mean that guitars are just automatically WAY
better as solo instruments, etc.  Please remain in Texas, land of
endlessly-recycled electric blues played by sneering white guys.  We're all
happier that way.

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:30:52 -0700
From: "Matt McCabe" <mattm@bi-tech.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: help wanted -- technique tips, please
Message-Id: <199708141533.IAA30512@gw1.bi-tech.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> This post is not about philosophy.

WONDERFUL!!!!!!

> I would like to sync up a repeating sampled riff (from Rhodes or
> telewanker), captured with an Echoplex DP, with the drummer.
> 
> So far, I've tried playing the riff, letting it loop on a monitor near
the
> drum kit, and seeing if he can follow along.  Things quickly get too loud
> and we drift.

Plug the Echoplex into a mixer and make the drummer wear headphones. 
He/she will probably complain but at least he/she can turn it up as loud as
he/she wants.

> The question is: without MIDI clicks, how can a loop be synced into music
> with live drums?  I'm looking for new APPROACHES to this problem
> here...anyone?

Assuming the looping riff has a fairly constant tempo (i.e. loops around
smoothly) the drummer *should* be able to follow it -- assuming he/she can
heard it.  And it will take a fair amount of discipline on the drummers
part to *follow* the loop.  Remember that in typical bands, the drummer
sets the tempo, so having a drummer lock onto something else might take
some practice.
 
Good luck!

Matt

P.S.  BTW, playing with a MIDI click isn't as evil as it sounds.  The
drummer in my last band found it somewhat liberating....after he got the
hang of it.

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 12:34:33 -0400
From: Mark@asisoftware.com (Mark Kata)
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: help wanted -- technique tips, please
Message-ID: <01BCA8AE.6C8D32A0@mark.asisoftware.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Occasionally, I work with a drummer and a keyboardist who uses MIDI sequences.

I asked the drummer how he feels about playing with a computerized time source.  He said that the trick for him is to play a little quieter than the sequence.  This allows him to hear the timing of the sequence and lock into its beat.

Of course, his acoustic drum kit sounds much better than the sequenced drum track--to the point where I completely ignore the sequenced drums and lock into the real drums.

Mark Kata
Mark@asisoftware.com


----------
From: 	Matt McCabe[SMTP:mattm@bi-tech.com]
Sent: 	Thursday, August 14, 1997 11:30 AM
To: 	Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: 	Re: help wanted -- technique tips, please

> This post is not about philosophy.

WONDERFUL!!!!!!

> I would like to sync up a repeating sampled riff (from Rhodes or
> telewanker), captured with an Echoplex DP, with the drummer.
> 
> So far, I've tried playing the riff, letting it loop on a monitor near
the
> drum kit, and seeing if he can follow along.  Things quickly get too loud
> and we drift.

Plug the Echoplex into a mixer and make the drummer wear headphones. 
He/she will probably complain but at least he/she can turn it up as loud as
he/she wants.

> The question is: without MIDI clicks, how can a loop be synced into music
> with live drums?  I'm looking for new APPROACHES to this problem
> here...anyone?

Assuming the looping riff has a fairly constant tempo (i.e. loops around
smoothly) the drummer *should* be able to follow it -- assuming he/she can
heard it.  And it will take a fair amount of discipline on the drummers
part to *follow* the loop.  Remember that in typical bands, the drummer
sets the tempo, so having a drummer lock onto something else might take
some practice.
 
Good luck!

Matt

P.S.  BTW, playing with a MIDI click isn't as evil as it sounds.  The
drummer in my last band found it somewhat liberating....after he got the
hang of it.

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 97 12:10:09 -0000
From: "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.com>
To: "Looper's Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: help wanted -- technique tips, please
Message-Id: <199708141707.KAA32444@apple.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

>BTW: Travis Hartnett: you are obviously some guitar choade from Texas, the
>state of sixty million guys who play Strat in crappy blues bar bands.  You
>are in no position to make statements about the validity of keyboards as a
>solo instrument, in rock or any other "style".  Just because Joe Bob
>Billy's Stevie Ray Tribute Band (appearing live at the Spicy Iguana)
>doesn't have some bespectacled wonk behind a stack of keyboard gear and
>MIDI rack pieces, doesn't mean that guitars are just automatically WAY
>better as solo instruments, etc.  Please remain in Texas, land of
>endlessly-recycled electric blues played by sneering white guys.  We're all
>happier that way.
>
Ah.  It all makes sense now.

In recognition of the growing level of frustration regarding the keyboard 
thread, I've stopped commenting, but I will (briefly) respond to the 
above.
I'm not trying to advance the theory that one instrument is superior to 
the other, nor that the residents of any particular geographical area are 
more or less cultured.  Such arguments reveal much about the poster, 
while doing little to address the subject at hand.
My initial motivation in the guitar/keyboards/other instruments debate 
was to try and get some insight into the keyboard culture.  Looper's 
Delight is seemingly dominated by guitarists, and I was hoping to get a 
break from the endless whining about how Lexicon or Oberheim should make 
great gear and sell it for peanuts, or how to use a Ground Control pedal 
to control either device, or how Robert Fripp should hang it up.  I hoped 
that among the members of LD, who share a common interest in one strange 
area of music, I could find some answers to questions that have puzzled 
me over the years, including how different instrumentalists approach 
their respective instrument.  Unfortunately, the discussion soon became 
bitter and defensive.
We now return to our regular scheduled program.

Travis Hartnett

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 12:43:42
From: james rhodes <sharkey@texas.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: help wanted -- technique tips, please
Message-Id: <3.0.2.16.19970814124342.2fef6b22@texas.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Thanks...
>--Russell Gorton
>
>BTW: Travis Hartnett: you are obviously some guitar choade from Texas, the
>state of sixty million guys who play Strat in crappy blues bar bands.  You
>are in no position to make statements about the validity of keyboards as a
>solo instrument, in rock or any other "style".  Just because Joe Bob
>Billy's Stevie Ray Tribute Band (appearing live at the Spicy Iguana)
>doesn't have some bespectacled wonk behind a stack of keyboard gear and
>MIDI rack pieces, doesn't mean that guitars are just automatically WAY
>better as solo instruments, etc.  Please remain in Texas, land of
>endlessly-recycled electric blues played by sneering white guys.  We're all
>happier that way.
>
>
>
>your statement says more of you and less of Travis. your message seems to
support the theory that not all the worlds retards are confined to Texas.

james rhodes
Stick/Keyboard/sneering/choade (damn now all i need is a Strat and a big
fatty)
>

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 12:52:48
From: james rhodes <sharkey@texas.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: help wanted -- technique tips, please
Message-Id: <3.0.2.16.19970814125248.2fefd7b0@texas.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 Very frustrating.
>
>The question is: without MIDI clicks, how can a loop be synced into music
>with live drums?  I'm looking for new APPROACHES to this problem
>here...anyone?
>
>Thanks...
>--Russell Gorton
>
>this sneering choade suggest you find a drummer with meter...i know some
Texas drummers that when they are not on the porch playing "Dueling Banjos"
or wanking with their paisley teles, might be coaxed to venture into the
uncharted world of musical taste...

the infamous james rhodes

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 10:36:38 -0700
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: help wanted -- technique tips, please
Message-Id: <v03102801b018ef788aaf@[207.171.196.242]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>I would like to sync up a repeating sampled riff (from Rhodes or
>telewanker), captured with an Echoplex DP, with the drummer.
>
>So far, I've tried playing the riff, letting it loop on a monitor near the
>drum kit, and seeing if he can follow along.  Things quickly get too loud
>and we drift.
>
>Then I tried using a momentary-switch pedal into the Beat sync jack, using
>Mute-Multiply to "trigger" the loop start with the pedal.  Let drummer work
>pedal.  This works, kinda, but there is ALWAYS a little delay between the
>pedal kick and the start of the loop.  We've tried many ways to anticipate
>this delay, record the loop differently, use a different make of pedal,
>etc.  Very frustrating.

Another idea, is to let the drummer trigger your loops with some sort of
drum trigger on a drum pad. It might be a little easier to start accurately
than with a pedal. That should work in the beat sync jack of your echoplex,
using the same Mute-multiply function.

Make sure the delay isn't just you recording the loop late! People always
do this: press record button, then start playing. The two have to occur at
the same time! If you are hearing a delay between the trigger and the start
of the loop, this might be what's going on. You might even want to put the
echoplex in front of the drummer and let him record the loops for you! Or
perhaps just give him a record button so that you still have the other
controls.

All the advice about hearing the loops is good too. I have that experience
in recording. I play in time much better if the headphone mix has drums and
bass (or whatever is keeping time) turned up much louder than me.

Also, a drummer who has had a lot of experience playing with loops wrote a
nice piece for us. It's posted on the "tips and tricks" area of the web
site. You might want to have your drummer read that.

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 11:26:51 -0700
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: using dashes in email
Message-Id: <v03102805b018fda8e05a@[207.171.197.9]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Please be careful about using long rows of dashes in your posts. Some
people's mail programs get confused by that, because it is used to indicate
attachments and the end of the file. A number of people only got part of a
recent digest because a post in it had filled a line with dashes to
seperate a section of the post. Don't do that.

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com

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Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 11:37:19 -0800
From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Cc: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: help wanted -- technique tips, please
Message-Id: <v01510102b01908fe8bb4@[128.193.5.45]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>> The question is: without MIDI clicks, how can a loop be synced into music
>> with live drums?  I'm looking for new APPROACHES to this problem
>> here...anyone?
>
>Assuming the looping riff has a fairly constant tempo (i.e. loops around
>smoothly) the drummer *should* be able to follow it -- assuming he/she can
>heard it.  And it will take a fair amount of discipline on the drummers
>part to *follow* the loop.  Remember that in typical bands, the drummer
>sets the tempo, so having a drummer lock onto something else might take
>some practice.
>
<More Snipped>
>P.S.  BTW, playing with a MIDI click isn't as evil as it sounds.  The
>drummer in my last band found it somewhat liberating....after he got the
>hang of it.

We've been playing with this in the trio lately too, syncing both JamMen to
a sequencer/drum mahine. We give the drummer his own monitor amp, and if
it's loud and clean enough he has no problem following it. It helps that he
has excellent time and a lot of studio experience playing to click tracks.
We don't specifically use a click, I program a simple percussion part that
fits into the material, and after a few weeks practice everything came
together quite well. It's a great way to expand the sound without adding
more people to the band...

________________________________________________________
Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org  : www.peak.org/~improv/

"...there will come a day when you won't have to use
gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in
your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper
type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em
together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em
together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire."
                                            -Sun Ra
________________________________________________________

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Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:04:18 -0300
From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Jack West CD
Message-Id: <v01520d03b018d9e01326@[200.254.32.145]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Sorry people, I did not manage to follow your last big mail traffic - should I ?


But I received a CD here, by Jack West and Curvature, called "Continuum",
featuring Scott Proffitt (perc) and Calder Spanier (sax)

For my ears, its solid acoustic guitar work, profiting of a Echoplex (even
in the studio) to lay down chord work to allow soloing.

I find it a brilliant example for loop based non "loop music" work, in the
sense that it only sounds different from "ordinary" accoustic guitar works
through Jacks nice personal playing style.

Ahead Behind Music ABM011 Oakland  510-601-7932 / 912-354-1174

Greetings
Matthias

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