------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain Loopers-Delight-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 14 Today's Topics: Re: oberheim echoplex used with midi [ James Reynolds ] Reflex/Vortex Resonators [ pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hu ] Re: radio shack optimus pro x7 monit [ c62op27@ibx.com (Victor Fiorillo) ] Re: echoplex weirdness [ Floyd Miller ] Re: oberheim echoplex used with midi [ "Hogan, Greg" ] Re: oberheim echoplex used with midi [ "Hogan, Greg" ] RE: Reflex/Vortex Resonators [ "Hogan, Greg" ] RE: Reflex/Vortex Resonators [ pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hu ] Re: Reflex/Vortex Resonators [ James Coker ] RE: Reflex/Vortex Resonators [ Michael Peters <100041.247@compuser ] Jamman with Midi Fade [ pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hu ] Re: Jamman with Midi Fade [ James Reynolds ] Re: Jamman with Midi Fade [ pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hu ] Vortex Resonators [ "Hogan, Greg" ] Re: oberheim echoplex used with midi [ kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) ] Re: Copressors, fade ins, etc. [ Dpcoffin@aol.com ] re:Re: Jamman with Midi Fade [ "Bret Moreland" ] Re: oberheim echoplex used with midi [ "Hogan, Greg" ] Administrivia: Looper's Delight **************** Please send posts to: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Don't send them to the digest! To subscribe/unsubscribe to the Loopers-Delight digest version, send email with "subscribe" (or "unsubscribe") in both the subject and the body, with no signature files, to: Loopers-Delight-d-request@annihilist.com To subscribe/unsubscribe to the real Loopers-Delight list, send email with "subscribe" (or "unsubscribe") in both the subject and the body, with no signature files, to: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Check the web page for archives and lots of other goodies! http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html Your humble list maintainer, Kim Flint kflint@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 02:51:17 -0800 From: James Reynolds To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: oberheim echoplex used with midi foot switch Message-Id: <199701231051.CAA00439@dsp.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ed drake just sent me an email describing how the current software for the digital music corp ground control (version 2.3 or 2.4) does not filter redundant program change messages, and allows sending of continuous control values 0 or 127, but still doesn't allow you to "hold" and "release" a button. the part about not filtering redundant messages is good news for someone like me, who uses a max patch to convert a single program change message into a midi note with a set duration. for normal people, it seems to me that the ground control would still not be useful for directly controlling the echoplex. each "button press" received by the echoplex must begin with an "on" (note velocity or continuous controller value > 0) and end with an "off" (velocity or controller value = 0). even if you had set the GC to send continuous controller values, you would have to use a pair of buttons for each echoplex function. you would have to hit the pair quickly in sequence if you didn't want the echoplex to interpret it as a "long" button press (eg, if the two record messages are sent too far apart you erase your carefully crafted loop... unless you set RecordMode to "sus"). kim's "echoplex footpedal tutorial" explains all this much more eloquently. check it out: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tools/echoplex/echopedals.html james ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:16:58 GMT From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Reflex/Vortex Resonators Message-Id: <2431.199701231216@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" First up, thank you Greg for the Reflex data. Please thank ms Ciccone and ask her if she's related to Madonna. I know she probably gets asked this all the time, but I'm curious. Secondly, a couple of questions about resonators: (i) Are the resonators in the Reflex and Vortex the same? (ii) The details say that these "simulate the acoustic effects of multi-stringed instruments". What does that mean in practice? Will it make my guitar more violin/cello - like? Thanks all, Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 97 07:32:18 EST From: c62op27@ibx.com (Victor Fiorillo) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: radio shack optimus pro x7 monitor speakers Message-Id: <9701231232.AA29411@ibx.com> ----- Begin Included Message ----- From: "Todd Pafford" To: Subject: Re: radio shack optimus pro x7 monitor speakers Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:37:58 -0500 While I have little experience with mixing/recording, I have always heard (and heard the wonderful result of) of using crappy speakers to mix an album/cd/dat/whatever. The logic behind it being that if you can engineer the sound to sound good on crappy speakers, then it'll sound GREAT on good speakers. The perfect example that comes to mind was a band that I was really good friends with. When mixing down their self produced first album all monitoring was done out these little 4 inch numbers that looked like they were pulled out of any portable stereo. At the end of the process, the tape was sounding pretty damn good considering the speakers, but when popped in the house stereo it sounded incredible....and still to this day I think it's one of the best mixed albums I've ever heard, especially in headphones. :) Perhaps I'm off base with this since, to be honest, I don't know what A-B process you're referring to. So take these words with a grain of salt. :) My own humble opinion, Todd P. --------------------------------------------------- Are you serious, or is this a joke? If I engineer a recording so that it sounds great on a pair of Coby 5" speakers that I purchased at the local street vendor, then the sound will obviously be compromised for any normal to high quality speaker. If I have a speaker with a crappy tweeter and manufacture the sound so that it is "great", I would have to tweak the sound in ways that would cause it to sound ridiculous on a VMPS water-cooled 8 way speaker. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 08:01:20 -0500 From: Floyd Miller To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: echoplex weirdness Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970123080116.0068eb94@popmail.voicenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:11 AM 1/23/97 -0800, you wrote: >At 7:41 PM 1/11/97, James Reynolds wrote: >>one more newbie question: will the legendary "upgrade" be just a rom chip Before I get tooo excited, what is so legendary abot this upgrade? What will it do? **************** ********** Floyd Miller ****** floyd@voicenet.com ** http://www.voicenet.com/~floyd ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:22:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" To: Loopers-Delight Subject: Re: oberheim echoplex used with midi foo Message-Id: <9701231532.AA27443@beryllium.lexicon.com> james said about the Digital Music Corporation Ground Control: "firstly, and most significantly, since the GC is meant mainly for guitarists to use to change patches on their midi-controllable effects, it so "intelligently" filters out redundant messages (it won't send the same program change twice in a row). the idea is that if you're on, say, effect patch 29 and you select it again, you won't hear the audible "click" of reloading the patch." Digital Music Corporation offers an upgrade for the Ground Control which allows you to send 2 program changes at once. This was done to accommodate the JAMMANs MIDI function but I would imagine it will work just as well with the echoplex. Best regards, Greg Hogan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:39:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" To: Loopers-Delight Subject: Re: oberheim echoplex used with midi foo Message-Id: <9701231549.AA27576@beryllium.lexicon.com> What I said: Digital Music Corporation offers an upgrade for the Ground Control which allows you to send 2 program changes at once. This was done to accommodate the JAMMANs MIDI function but I would imagine it will work just as well with the echoplex." Best regards, Greg Hogan What I meant (as well as what james has already pointed out): There is an upgrade for the Ground Control which allows you to send the same program change message twice in a row. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:03:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" To: Loopers-Delight Subject: RE: Reflex/Vortex Resonators Message-Id: <9701231614.AA27632@beryllium.lexicon.com> Michael asked the following: "Please thank ms Ciccone and ask her if she's related to Madonna. (i) Are the resonators in the Reflex and Vortex the same? (ii) The details say that these "simulate the acoustic effects of multi-stringed instruments". What does that mean in practice? Will it make my guitar more violin/cello - like? No, Andrea is of no relation to Madonna. That was one of the first questions that I asked her. The resonators in the Reflex and Vortex are very different. In the Vortex the resonator parameters are handled differently within each algorithm. In the Reflex the chromatic resonator algorithm resonates chromatically off of the input signal creating something like chromatic arpeggiation. This is an interesting sound though not that useful in the traditional sense, but hey, youse folks here on dis list ain't the most traditional bunch anyway. The chromatic resonator will make one note sound as if several notes were struck. The inverse room may make your guitar sound more bowed if that is what you mean by violin or cello like. Thanks for your interest and please let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything that I can do for you. Best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 email: ghogan@lexicon.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 17:29:24 GMT From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: Reflex/Vortex Resonators Message-Id: <10419.199701231729@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" First things first: >No, Andrea is of no relation to Madonna. That was one of the first >questions that I asked her. Fer shame! She must _really_ be getting sick of that question by now. >The resonators in the Reflex and Vortex are very different. In the Vortex >the resonator parameters are handled differently within each algorithm. In >the Reflex the chromatic resonator algorithm resonates chromatically off of >the input signal creating something like chromatic arpeggiation. This is an >interesting sound though not that useful in the traditional sense, but hey, >youse folks here on dis list ain't the most traditional bunch anyway. >The chromatic resonator will make one note sound as if several notes were >struck. The inverse room may make your guitar sound more bowed if that is >what you mean by violin or cello like. Not really... I was hoping for something more along the lines of waveform transformation... speaking of which, has anyone tried using a pitch-shifter to vary the waveform by adding low-level, octave-up "harmonics"? So what does the vortex resonator do differently? Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:47:05 +0000 From: James Coker To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Reflex/Vortex Resonators Message-ID: <32E75DB9.7F04@interaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dr M. P. Hughes wrote: > > Not really... I was hoping for something more along the lines of waveform > transformation... speaking of which, has anyone tried using a pitch-shifter > to vary the waveform by adding low-level, octave-up "harmonics"? I've tried that w/ a GSP2101 and the results weren't that great, as I could still distinguish the octave tone as separate from the guitar tone. I do like using the pitch shifter or audio arpeggiator (a delay w/ pitch shift in the feedback loop) with 0 tones of pitch shift to thicken the tone. (do I dare say that it makes it a bit frippish? ;) I find using the Ebow is a great way to generate octave harmonics, and fiddle w/ the tone in general. Jim ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 17:13:02 -0500 (EST) From: David Talento To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: oberheim echoplex used with midi foot switch Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 23 Jan 1997, Kim Flint wrote: > Check out the Echoplex footpedal tutorial on the web site. It has a bunch > of stuff on midi pedals. Plus, it's a great read! > http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tools/echoplex/echopedals.html Very true. However the one thing I found this lacking was the final solution: a listing of make and model numbers of pedakls that *do* work and how to hook 'em up. The recent post on the pedal that send note info rather than cc messages is a great addition to this. Anyone else? Has anyone *used* the ARt X11/12/15 stuff? ADA stuff? Does it *work* or come close or fail? This info added to the FAQ would be incredibly helpful I would imagine. -------- Help Wanted Productions - Bringing you the best in organic electronic and sweaty rock music since we started. Http://www.voicenet.com/~legion Available next month: "The Feedback Machine" a new studio album from the Music for Isolation Tanks live lineup. Only $6.00 postpaid! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:12:37 -0500 From: Michael Peters <100041.247@compuserve.com> To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Reflex/Vortex Resonators Message-ID: <199701231915_MC2-FCD-C06B@compuserve.com> Dr M. P. Hughes wrote: > > Not really... I was hoping for something more along the lines of waveform > transformation... speaking of which, has anyone tried using a pitch-shifter > to vary the waveform by adding low-level, octave-up "harmonics"? if you want "octave-up harmonics" for your guitar, get a Fernandez with sustainer. It does harmonic feedbacks you will really like. Michael Peters private: 100041.247@compuserve.com work: mp@harold-scholz.de http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters (Never whistle while you pee) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:39:54 GMT From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Jamman with Midi Fade Message-Id: <24406.199701241039@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Attention JamMan users! Has anybody tried using the MIDI fade option? The manual (unclearly) states that if you stop fading and start recording again the new recording is at the faded volume. Is that so and if it is, how do you start looping again at full volume without stopping the loop? Will Replace cancel the fade function? Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 03:11:31 -0800 From: James Reynolds To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Jamman with Midi Fade Message-Id: <199701241111.DAA25606@dsp.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Has anybody tried using the MIDI fade option? The manual (unclearly) >states that if you stop fading and start recording again the new recording >is at the faded volume. Is that so and if it is, how do you start looping >again at full volume without stopping the loop? Will Replace cancel the >fade function? > the manual sez: "if TAP is pressed while a fade is active, jamman will resume loop play with LAYER cued. play is resumed at the faded level." this means that when you hit TAP, the loop will stop fading, and will continue to play at its faded level. anything you layer on this faded loop will loop at the volume you played it. the "midi fade" doesn't reduce the jamman's actual master "volume" level, it just reduces the delay feedback level so the loop will decay. when you hit TAP during the fade, feedback is brought back to 100%. james ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:40:43 GMT From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Jamman with Midi Fade Message-Id: <27813.199701241240@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >the manual sez: > >"if TAP is pressed while a fade is active, jamman will resume loop play with >LAYER cued. play is resumed at the faded level." >this means that when you hit TAP, the loop will stop fading, and will >continue to play at its faded level. anything you layer on this faded loop >will loop at the volume you played it. the "midi fade" doesn't reduce the >jamman's actual master "volume" level, it just reduces the delay feedback >level so the loop will decay. when you hit TAP during the fade, feedback is >brought back to 100%. Thanks, James -that's what I was hoping for! I've been worried that I was going to have to put it in some kind of volume-preamp loop. I know the way I thought the manual said it worked wouldn't make a helluva lot of sense, but then neither does leaving MIDI off the Vortex... :) Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:04:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" To: Loopers-Delight Subject: Vortex Resonators Message-Id: <9701241515.AA01882@beryllium.lexicon.com> Michael asked:"So what does the vortex resonator do differently?" Well the Vortex doesn't really have what I would call a resonator. It has parameters labeled resonance which are handled differently within each of the algorithms: In the Reflection algorithms resonance controls the gain of the signal that resonates off of the detuned voices. In Atmosphere A Resonance 1 is the gain for the signal that resonates off of vibrato 1and Resonance 2 controls the gain of signals resonating off of the cross mix of the two vibratos. In Atmosphere B Resonance 1 is a mix control between 2 delay taps and 2 modulators and Resonance 2 provides tuning for the 2 modulators. In the both Orbits algorithms and the Centrifuge A algorithm Resonator 1 and 2 provide resonance off of the rotary signals 1 and 2. In the Centrifuge B algorithm the Resonance parameters control the gain of the resonance from each of the rotary signals. In the Aerosol algorithms Resonance 1 mixes the left and right modulation signals together and Resonance 2 affects the stereo image of the modulation effects. In the Mosaic algorithms the Resonance parameters adjusts the resonance of each of the modulation effects. In Maze A Resonance 1 is the resonance gain for the modulator and Resonance 2 controls the tuning. In Maze B Resonance 1 controls the gain for the left detune and Resonance 2 controls the gain for the right detune. In Duo A Resonance 1 controls the level of the resonation of the vibrato effects and Resonance 2 controls the mix of the resonation off of the 2 vibrato effects. In Duo B Resonance 1 controls the gain of the resonation of the vibrato effects and resonance controls the cross mix between the 2 vibratos. In the Deja Vu algorithms Resonance A is the gain for the resonation of the stereo glide and Resonance 2 is the gain of the cross-resonation of the stereo glide. In the Choir algorithms Resonance 1 is affects the resonance for the multi-chorus L-R cross mix and Resonance 2 affects the resonance for the multi-chorus R-L cross mix. In Shimmer A Resonance 1 controls the cross resonance gain of the modulated effects and Resonance 2 controls the tuning of the cross resonance. In Shimmer B Resonance 1 controls the gain of the stereo resonator and Resonance 2 controls the tuning of the resonator. In the Sweep algorithms Resonance 1 controls the left resonance and Resonance 2 controls the right resonance. In Sweep A the resonance is on the glide effect and in Sweep B the resonance is on the vibrato effect. In Shadow A Resonance 1 controls the R-L cross resonance of the modulated signal and Resonance 2 controls the L-R cross resonance of the modulated signal. In Shadow B Resonance 1 controls the low-pass filter cutoff frequency and Resonance 2 controls the cross-resonance of the modulated signal. In the Cycloid algorithms Resonance 1 controls the left filter cutoff frequency and Resonance 2 controls the right filter cutoff frequency. In Bleen A Resonance 1 controls the gain of the resonator and Resonator 2 controls the tuning of the resonator. In Bleen B Resonance 1 is the gain for the left detune and Resonance 2 is the gain for the right detune. In the Fractal algorithms Resonance 1 controls the resonance off of the stereo glide effect and Resonance 2 controls the gain of the cross-resonance of the stereo glide. According to the designer of Vortex any similarities of the Vortexs' resonator to that of any of its predecessors is purely coincidental. Sorry for the long post. Best regards, Greg ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:10:50 -0800 From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: oberheim echoplex used with midi foot switch Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >On Thu, 23 Jan 1997, Kim Flint wrote: > >> Check out the Echoplex footpedal tutorial on the web site. It has a bunch >> of stuff on midi pedals. Plus, it's a great read! >> http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tools/echoplex/echopedals.html > >Very true. However the one thing I found this lacking was the final >solution: a listing of make and model numbers of pedakls that *do* work >and how to hook 'em up. The recent post on the pedal that send note info >rather than cc messages is a great addition to this. Anyone else? Has >anyone *used* the ARt X11/12/15 stuff? ADA stuff? Does it *work* or come >close or fail? > > >This info added to the FAQ would be incredibly helpful I would imagine. I'd be happy to add such info, except I don't know nearly enough about all the midi footcontrollers out there to be very useful. If anyone wants to send me the appropriate data on footpedals you are familiar with, please do! You should be able to tell what functionality the pedal needs to have from what is now on the web page. I think what I know so far is: Digital Music's Ground Control does not work, Rocktron All Access should work, and the Digitech PMC-10 should work based on the manual. The PMC-10 is long out of production, and I have no idea if the current Digitech pedals are similar. I got my PMC-10 used for a $100, but I still need to try it with the plex. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 13:21:16 -0500 (EST) From: Dpcoffin@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Copressors, fade ins, etc. Message-ID: <970124114751_409142681@emout12.mail.aol.com> Wouild some kind soul mind explaining to me exactly how you can use a compressor to get this fade-in, slowed-attack effect it sounds like you guys are talking about with Frissel, who I haven't heard? I've tried in vain to use the "attack" control of various compressor to do that, trying to emulate less exotic players than Bill (like some of Steven Still's BSpringfield textures). Any direx appreciated... On the pitch shift front, sorry for always suggesting a simple $2000+ fix with the VG-8. It's just that, once you have one, it ceases to feel expensive, just essential! But, inspired by it, I have tried adding low-level pitch shifts with basic fx. High and low fifth and fourths mixed around 50% seem to work some similar magic. try all intervals, add distortion, delays, tremelo, vibrato, parallel instead of series connections, whatever, to break down the parallel-instrument effect in favor of the added harmonic content thing... dp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jan 97 11:37:55 MST From: "Bret Moreland" To: Subject: re:Re: Jamman with Midi Fade Message-ID: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Having just received my Jamman, without a manual, I also have a fade question. Can the feedback level be controlled (reduced) on the Jamman without using this Midi fade? I would like to fade loops, but do not have midi controller. bret ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 14:09:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" To: Loopers-Delight Subject: RE: re:Re: Jamman with Midi Fade Message-Id: <9701241920.AA03465@beryllium.lexicon.com> bret asked: "Can the feedback level be controlled (reduced) on the Jamman without using this Midi fade? I would like to fade loops, but do not have midi controller." Sorry ,bret, this feature is only available via MIDI program change message in the loop mode. You do have front panel control over feedback level in the Echo mode. Please let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything that I can do for you. Best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 email: ghogan@lexicon.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 14:12:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" To: Loopers-Delight Subject: Re: oberheim echoplex used with midi foo Message-Id: <9701241922.AA03472@beryllium.lexicon.com> kim wrote: "I think what I know so far is: Digital Music's Ground Control does not work, Rocktron All Access should work, and the Digitech PMC-10 should work based on the manual. The PMC-10 is long out of production, and I have no idea if the current Digitech pedals are similar. I got my PMC-10 used for a $100, but I still need to try it with the plex." If the reason that the Ground Control is unacceptable is because it will not send the same program change message twice in a row DMC has fixed this problem with a software upgrade! I --------------------------------