------------------------------ Loopers-Delight-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 165 Today's Topics: Re: delurking (was: belated LD bday) [ fred marshall ] Administrivia: Looper's Delight **************** Please send posts to: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Don't send them to the digest! To subscribe/unsubscribe to the Loopers-Delight digest version, send email with "subscribe" (or "unsubscribe") in both the subject and the body, with no signature files, to: Loopers-Delight-d-request@annihilist.com To subscribe/unsubscribe to the real Loopers-Delight list, send email with "subscribe" (or "unsubscribe") in both the subject and the body, with no signature files, to: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Check the web page for archives and lots of other goodies! http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html Your humble list maintainer, Kim Flint kflint@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 02:12:55 -0800 From: fred marshall To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: delurking (was: belated LD bday) Message-ID: <343373A5.465D@fredmarshall.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom Lambrecht wrote: > drone on~~~~~~drone on~~~~~~drone on~~~~~~~~drone on~~~~Tom > Tom Lambrecht hideo@concentric.net - nice thought . . . "droning on" cast in a positive light . . . - which contains the successive internals: drone on one neon eon on mmm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 04:04:07 PDT From: "alice crash" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: music Message-ID: <19971002110408.24510.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain have u heard Scorn? on Invisible records. nice minimalist stuff with an almost drum-nbass thing going. its done by the drummer from napa;m death ( but dont let this fool u) A >From lists@slip.net Thu Sep 18 08:49:20 1997 >Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) > id 0xBipP-0002jF-00; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 08:49:15 -0700 >Message-Id: >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 08:51:17 -0800 >To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) >Subject: Re: music >Resent-Message-ID: <"Prx6SB.A.-UC.mzUI0"@ferret> >Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/561 >Precedence: list >Resent-Sender: SmartList >Resent-To: alicecrsh@hotmail.com >Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 08:49:15 -0700 > >Kim Flint wrote: >>So how about this, what music are you all listening to these days? Which >>artists are inspiring you for looping or otherwise? If I go to the record >>store on Saturday, what should I get? >> >I've been listening to "As Is", by We, on Asphodel, quite a lot lately. >They're part of the New York "illbient" scene. The first track mixes some >very cool Rhodes piano loops with some extremely bass heavey (I mean >really, the first drum kick made my stereo amp shut down the first time I >played it) heavey drum 'n bass, it's almost like a d 'n b remix of "In A >Silent Way". Also, Funki Porcini's "Love, Pussycats & Car Wrecks" is >another recent fave. I really think that the jazz/drum 'n bass fusion thing >is finally producing some mature works, with this disc and the recent >Squarepusher stuff. > >Another very nice CD I've been listening to almost daily is Choying Drolma >and Steve Tibbetts "Cho", on Rykodisc. Drolma is a Tibetan Buddhist nun, >and she was recorded singing traditional songs at her monastery in the >Himalayas. Then Tibbetts added various guitars and processing, with a few >other western musicians on percussion and strings. This disc is not >particularly loop-based, but it's deeply beautiful, Tibbetts displays >remarkable restraint and respect for the source materials. > >Also, I've been pulling out my old lps of synthesizer music from the '60's >a lot lately, Morton Subotnick's "Silver Apples of the Moon" and "The Wild >Bull" in particular. I'm amazed at how advanced some of this stuff is, >there's been very little synth music that approaches this, either sonically >or compositionally, in the 30 years since it was recorded. > >>Here's another one we haven't delved into for a long time: What is it about >>looping that makes it interesting, fun, musical? Why do we want to do it? >>Why does it show up in so many types of music? Is it something in human >>nature, learned from culture, what? >> >Jeez, Kim, why do you have to ask the hard questions, can't we just go back >to talking about 3rd cousin sync? > >A few weeks ago, I found in a box of non-working music gear an Ibanez >analog delay pedal I bought in 1979. This was my first "looping" device, I >used it for, among other things, making my monophonic synths play chords by >arpeggiatting them in time with the echos. I replaced a pot and put new >batteries in it and it still works. > >I was always fascinated by the sound that remained after I stopped playing, >it seemed to be an entity of it's own, and this led me to experiment with >just about every delay technology, from tape looping to digital delays to >samplers to the JamMan. Every once in a while, I come up with a loop so >complete in itself that it just doesn't need anything else, and I'll leave >it playing in the studio for hours, sometimes for days, checking in with it >every now and again. > >Looping acts like a microscope looking into sound events. A loop lets you >hear, through repetition, details of a small piece of sound that would have >been missed when it was first sounded. Not all sounds can take this >scrutiny, but when you find one that does, the effect is almost magical. > >Anyway, this is some of what keeps me looping... > > >________________________________________________________ >Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ > >"...there will come a day when you won't have to use >gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in >your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper >type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em >together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em >together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." > -Sun Ra >________________________________________________________ > > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 04:29:39 PDT From: "alice crash" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: music Message-ID: <19971002112939.19499.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Pete, as for the humor in looping,maybe content of the loop will work. we found a line from a movie, Doom Generation, in which a young man is explaining " I feel like a gerbal smothering in Richard Gere's butthole". This was looped repeatatively and a lot of noise and drums placed behind in. I for one found the segment extremely funny. When played live, it was hard to judge the audiences reation. A >From lists@slip.net Thu Sep 18 16:21:58 1997 >Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) > id 0xBptM-00041Y-00; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:21:48 -0700 >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 19:18:44 -0400 (EDT) >From: Pete Koniuto >To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >Subject: Re: music >In-Reply-To: <9708188746.AA874623023@mail.amsinc.com> >Message-ID: >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII >Resent-Message-ID: <"TAWI6D.A.kdD.kbbI0"@ferret> >Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/578 >Precedence: list >Resent-Sender: SmartList >Resent-To: alicecrsh@hotmail.com >Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:21:48 -0700 > > >Ed Chang wrote: > >> Anyway, my theory is that 'alien/possibly great' sounds/concepts can >> sound bad even to the genius-composer at the time of creation because it >> doesn't fit comfortably in his/her familiar sound-world... > >Exactly, Ed. It's that uncharted territory thing. I >sometimes hear something i've just worked on, be it a loop >or something else (but usually a loop, since other >pieces and parts happen more slowly, a little more >methodically, or are perhaps more premeditated), and >i'll think, no, there isn't enough high end in this >to make it sound all nice and balanced. It sounds dull, >lo-fi, swampy. It isn't until later that i realize, >i've never heard something so damn swampy--this is stinky >swampy, and it's scaring me, not boring me. IT'S HAVING >IMPACT. > >Often a good clue early on about what is effective, what >has impact musically is when i find myself either >laughing or proverbially scared shitless. Sometimes both. >But if i can immediately sense the humor in a piece, or the >terror, these are probably reflexes to something that >doesn't quite sit easily with that sound-world with which >i'm familiar and all to comfortable. > >Unfortunately, i KNOW i'm much better at the scarey stuff. >At least that's a reaction others often have to my >material, especially my looping. > >Can anyone suggest how to invoke more humor in the looping >process? Either the kind of humor that brings with it >tears; or the kind that pulls out that Cheshire grin to >the listener's lips, like yeah, i get it. > >Torn can do it. During the Polytown sessions, he would >pull schitt out that had everyone in the control room >laughing themselves silly. And he knew it. And i think >he may have even been aiming for that. Or maybe he was >just trying to crack himself up. > >Suggestions on how to bring humor (even the nervous kind) >into the loop? > > >Pete Koniuto > >----------------- >Music Library >Boston University >617-353-3705 >pkoniuto@bu.edu >----------------- > > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 14:56:06 +0100 From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Michael Pycraft Hughes, PhD) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: delurking (was: belated LD bday) Message-Id: <1678.199710021356@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >quick question about the DOD fx 94 pedal--I'm thinking of getting one, but I >think DOD has a reputation amongst guitarists as less than great--how do you >think this piece stands up against say some of the Digitech PDS and RDS >effects that I see posts about. Is this the EchoSonic? I read that DOD are planning a new 8sec pedal. The word "Mayhem" was used. Could be interesting. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 10:53:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Tom Lambrecht To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: delurking (was: belated LD bday) Message-Id: <199710021453.KAA27783@newman.concentric.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:56 PM 10/2/97 +0100, you wrote: >>quick question about the DOD fx 94 pedal--I'm thinking of getting one, but I >>think DOD has a reputation amongst guitarists as less than great--how do you >>think this piece stands up against say some of the Digitech PDS and RDS >>effects that I see posts about. > >Is this the EchoSonic? I read that DOD are planning a new 8sec pedal. The >word "Mayhem" was used. Could be interesting. > >Michael > > > > > This one is just called the fx 94--up to 4seconds of delay in three ranges with the kicker of course being infinite loop, trigger and sample settings ;) I tried one out yesterday and liked it for the most part except for a whine thatt changed in pitch as you adjust the "delay" setting (maybe a bad unit?)--it's faint, but annoying during quiet passages and I'd like to use this with a Pignose or my small Gibson tube amp without any other gates etc. on it Looking back at my notes Ed Chang mentioned this unit--any feedback about how it stacks up to the others you've used? Any comments on the old Roland SDE 1000? I saw a used one. The rumored 8 second pedal (according to DOD--I called) will be just like the 94, cept with eight secconds WHEN and IF they du it. They apparebtly exhibited an empty box prototype of it at a show. Thanks again, drone on~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Tom 57 deg F, beautiful,clear here in St. Louis Tom Lambrecht hideo@concentric.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 11:00:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Trueman To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: looping in Thessaloniki Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Comments about LiSa? (Curtis doesn't actually use it (yet) so I will respond). I have found LiSa to be very useful, flexible and stable. Though it appears awkward to use and program at first it is quite simple. It allows you to divide up your available RAM into sample regions and play them back in a bunch of ways. It has some simple filtering that can be fun, and a pattern editor which allows you to create your own playback algorithms. It also juggles voices very well, discarding old ones as it runs out of CPU. It has never crashed or even fuzzed out on me. I have a couple gripes. It has a wonderful set of envelopes for playing back notes, but it can't envelope on record. This is a problem for loopers; if you choose the back and forth playback mode (where it plays the sample backwards and forwards as long as the note is on) and there is a click on either end of the sound that you recorded, you'll hear the click loud and clear as it cycles around. I hate clicks. I've worked around it, but it's a pain. Also, it has this great Scrub playback feature where you can scrub through a soundfile with a control change message. Unfortunately, it doesn't smooth out the control change messages, so it ends up being a lumpy scrub with discrete and audible pitch changes. Still pretty cool though... I highly recommend it, and it's only $200. By the way, our gig went very well! Dan Trueman ---------------- "Oy, Fungus!" Dan Trueman Music Department Princeton University http://www.music.princeton.edu/~dan ---------------- On Sun, 28 Sep 1997, Morgan Fisher wrote: > Curtis Bahn wrote: > > >Jam man and echoplex DP driven by interactive MAX algorithms > >LiSa by STEIM > > Aha - LiSa! I just got hold of a demo (for those who don't know, this > program turns your Mac into a sampler) but haven't had time to try it yet. > Do have any comments about LiSa? Is it complex to use compared to regular > samplers such as the Akai, etc? Any special features worth mentioning? > > Hope your performance is a great success, Curtis! > > Morgan Fisher > > > > > > >From Morgan Fisher, Tokyo > Email address: morgan@gol.com > Second email address: morgan_fisher@ringo.net > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 08:57:35 PDT From: "alice crash" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: MIDI Light controllers Message-ID: <19971002155736.12968.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Is anyone using a midi light controller for live shows? Does anyone have the scematics for one? Are there any other lighting control devices that would leave the musician hands free but synch the lights with the music? Im currently using hallogen utility lamps with colored filters to light the stage. Id like to have an on and off for these at different times in the songs. Any ideas? Al. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 97 13:23:00 EST From: Edward_Chang@mail.amsinc.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: dfx94 Message-Id: <9709028758.AA875826519@mail.amsinc.com> >Looking back at my notes Ed Chang mentioned this unit-- >any feedback about how it stacks up to the others you've used? >Any comments on the old Roland SDE >1000? I saw a used one. I don't have much more to add than my original post. I agree that it has some noise attached to it, but what I've been doing lately is creating loops and storing them in the unit, and then unplugging the input into the DFX94, which for some reason cuts out some of the noise. Probably because it's not balanced. Another drawback to it is that the mix control only allows the delay/loop sample to match the input "straight" signal. The PDS8000 lets you mix so that only (or almost only) the delay(wet) signal is output. But the DFX94 is great for the price (mine was $84 used) and has all the "mayhem-like" sample-stretching qualities a noisemeister such as myself would require. Oh yeah, the PDS8000 has a footpedal trigger input, the DFX94 does not (I don't think). Boss has another pedal which lets you set the delay times with foot pedal action, I forget the name. With this you can set A and B loop points of beginnings and endings as precisely as you can tap your foot. The DFX94 and the PDS8000 depends on the position of the dial. Anyway enough geartalk. My new favorite record is Portishead:Portishead - that record and the Lamb record from last year give me newfound faith in the state and future of popular music today. ed chang ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 11:43:03 -0700 From: Thom Heileson To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Drone one Message-ID: <3433EB36.3B74@u.washington.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit fred marshall wrote: > > Tom Lambrecht wrote: > > > drone on~~~~~~drone on~~~~~~drone on~~~~~~~~drone on~~~~Tom > > Tom Lambrecht hideo@concentric.net > > - nice thought . . . "droning on" cast in a positive light . . . There's a music list, btw, called "Drone On" -- it's about artists like Bowery Electric, Slowdive, Spaceman3, Stereolab, even some non-guitar artists I think (I'm not on the list, a friend is), but as you can imagine repetition in music is the basic idea, not far removed from this list. -- _ _ _ Thom Heileson //)) //^~ heileson@u.washington.edu ((// // http://weber.u.washington.edu/~heileson/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 12:09:42 -0700 From: Thom Heileson To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Scorn / Mick Harris Message-ID: <3433F176.1C21@u.washington.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit alice crash wrote: > > have u heard Scorn? on Invisible records. nice minimalist stuff with an > almost drum-nbass thing going. its done by the drummer from napa;m death > ( but dont let this fool u) The guy behind Scorn is Mick Harris, and I just picked up a side project CD by him -- mick harris,eraldo bernocchi:overload lady. This is a bit more frantic than Scorn, in fact it is drum-n-bass, but the interesting, and relevant, thing about it is that is incorporates jungle-like breakbeats but uses them more repetitively, with less variation than most jungle, which tends to be manic. Mick Harris also has a project called Lull, which from what I know is very minimal, what some might call dark ambient. Thom -- _ _ _ Thom Heileson //)) //^~ heileson@u.washington.edu ((// // http://weber.u.washington.edu/~heileson/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 13:19:03 -0700 From: Thom Heileson To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: music -- looped spoken words Message-ID: <343401B7.3335@u.washington.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit alice crash wrote: > > Pete, > as for the humor in looping,maybe content of the loop will work. we IMO, some of the greatest use of looping spoken word was done in the early 80s by an Australian group called Severed Heads... my all-time fave is a track which loops this guy (sounds like it's from a 50s talk show or something) saying "Ya like that, y'wanna do it again? (insert squeaky strange contraption noise) -- Well, if ya it that much I'll do it _again_! (insert squeaky strange contraption noise)..." over and over and over again, during which slowly other layered sounds and tones rise to the surface. The effect is hilarious in the most surreal and disturbing way, and the main reason is the repetition itself (unrelenting!). Anyonw else heard this, or is familiar with Severed Heads' material from this period...? Thom > found a line from a movie, Doom Generation, in which a young man is > explaining " I feel like a gerbal smothering in Richard Gere's > butthole". This was looped repeatatively and a lot of noise and drums > placed behind in. I for one found the segment extremely funny. When > played live, it was hard to judge the audiences reation. > A > > >From lists@slip.net Thu Sep 18 16:21:58 1997 > >Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.62 #4) > > id 0xBptM-00041Y-00; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:21:48 -0700 > >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 19:18:44 -0400 (EDT) > >From: Pete Koniuto > >To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > >Subject: Re: music > >In-Reply-To: <9708188746.AA874623023@mail.amsinc.com> > >Message-ID: > >MIME-Version: 1.0 > >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > >Resent-Message-ID: <"TAWI6D.A.kdD.kbbI0"@ferret> > >Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > >Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > >X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/578 > >Precedence: list > >Resent-Sender: SmartList > >Resent-To: alicecrsh@hotmail.com > >Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:21:48 -0700 > > > > > >Ed Chang wrote: > > > >> Anyway, my theory is that 'alien/possibly great' sounds/concepts > can > >> sound bad even to the genius-composer at the time of creation > because it > >> doesn't fit comfortably in his/her familiar sound-world... > > > >Exactly, Ed. It's that uncharted territory thing. I > >sometimes hear something i've just worked on, be it a loop > >or something else (but usually a loop, since other > >pieces and parts happen more slowly, a little more > >methodically, or are perhaps more premeditated), and > >i'll think, no, there isn't enough high end in this > >to make it sound all nice and balanced. It sounds dull, > >lo-fi, swampy. It isn't until later that i realize, > >i've never heard something so damn swampy--this is stinky > >swampy, and it's scaring me, not boring me. IT'S HAVING > >IMPACT. > > > >Often a good clue early on about what is effective, what > >has impact musically is when i find myself either > >laughing or proverbially scared shitless. Sometimes both. > >But if i can immediately sense the humor in a piece, or the > >terror, these are probably reflexes to something that > >doesn't quite sit easily with that sound-world with which > >i'm familiar and all to comfortable. > > > >Unfortunately, i KNOW i'm much better at the scarey stuff. > >At least that's a reaction others often have to my > >material, especially my looping. > > > >Can anyone suggest how to invoke more humor in the looping > >process? Either the kind of humor that brings with it > >tears; or the kind that pulls out that Cheshire grin to > >the listener's lips, like yeah, i get it. > > > >Torn can do it. During the Polytown sessions, he would > >pull schitt out that had everyone in the control room > >laughing themselves silly. And he knew it. And i think > >he may have even been aiming for that. Or maybe he was > >just trying to crack himself up. > > > >Suggestions on how to bring humor (even the nervous kind) > >into the loop? > > > > > >Pete Koniuto > > > >----------------- > >Music Library > >Boston University > >617-353-3705 > >pkoniuto@bu.edu > >----------------- > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -- _ _ _ Thom Heileson //)) //^~ heileson@u.washington.edu ((// // http://weber.u.washington.edu/~heileson/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 15:49:18 -0500 From: Tom Spaulding To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Greetings From Oberheim Message-Id: <97Oct2.155141cdt.26882@gateway.gibson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello- My name is Tom Spaulding and I am the Product Manager for Oberheim. As some of you may know, we are moving our offices(from Oakland to Nashville) and re-organizing. We are committed to be the most helpful, informed, and available company as we can be. Please e-mail me at tspauldi@gibson.com whenever necessary. I welcome all comments and suggestions about the Oberheim of the future, but please refrain from flaming me about past experience with us unless you still have an unresolved situation, in which case you will get an immediate response. My background is in the guitar field (I've been playing for 22 years)and I have much to learn about the Echoplex Digital Pro and the field of Looping. Any help I can get will be greatly appreciated and certainly uncompensated;-) We plan on resuming manufacture of the Echoplex Digital Pro within the next 30 days. If you have a unit on backorder or in warranty service, please give us a little time to get set up and do things right. I look forward to communicating with you. Thanks for hanging in there! (Please forgive me if this seems crass and commercial - I'm merely trying to make contact with the power users out there). Tom --------------------------------