------------------------------
Loopers-Delight-d Digest				Volume 97 : Issue 174

Today's Topics:
  first public loop                     [ "Pete Gilbert" <PeteGilbert@classic ]
  Re: first public loop                 [ Phil Diem <pdiem@edcen.ehhs.cmich.e ]
  RE: first public loop                 [ 7302 <7302@ssj.dtu.dk> ]
  Re: URGENT!! HELP REQUEST             [ Tom Spaulding <tspauldi@gibson.com> ]
  FS:Vortex $180                        [ "Hartnett, Travis" <Hartnett#m#_Tra ]
  Re: looping vocals, guitar or both?   [ "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.c ]
  Oberheim Echoplex available in South  [ Andre LaFosse <altruist@shoko.calar ]
  guitar amp+speakers vs. PA            [ Erik Ljones <eriklj@stud.ntnu.no> ]
  Re: guitar amp+speakers vs. PA        [ Chris Chovit <cho@newdream.net> ]
  RE: guitar amp+speakers vs. PA        [ Tom Attix <toma@microsoft.com> ]
  Re: Re: guitar amp+speakers vs. PA    [ Fmplautus@aol.com ]
  Hasn't anyone heard of the ADA Ampul  [ Fmplautus@aol.com ]
  FS: Vortex                            [ "Bruce Gerow" <bgerow@ny.tds.net> ]
  Re: Vortex                            [ "That's MISTER Johnson to you, buck ]
  R: Vortex                             [ "Stefano Voulaz" <voulaz@korg.it> ]

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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 97 14:37:37 UT
From: "Pete Gilbert" <PeteGilbert@classic.msn.com>
To: "Loopers Delight" <loopers-delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: first public loop
Message-Id: <UPMAIL07.199710130013270537@classic.msn.com>

well, I performed my first "solo loop" before real people (rather than
a music store demo) on Friday night. I have looped in performance
before, as accompaniment, but this was the first solo. We
were scheduled to play for two hours at the Borders in Ann Arbor,
and as our set is only an hour long, we decided to fill things out
by adding solos at various points. I decided to perform Seascape
from the MST CD. I think that it went well ...
 
I explained to the audience what I was going to do which they seemed to
enjoy. I quickly got into "head down and focused on the task" mode,
which meant that I didn't get to really see the response. There were 
still people sitting out there and a bit of applause as I faded the loop
and we moved into the next part of the set, so I hadn't emptied the 
place :-)

The piece mixes somewhat straight Stick Melody end with
synth textures from the GR09 and bass synth textures from the
ME8B and stick melody end processed through the SGX2k and H3k.

OK. so it was only 5 or ten minutes long, but I liked it!

thanks for reading....Pete Gilbert

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 97 00:10:43 -0000
From: Phil Diem <pdiem@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: first public loop
Message-Id: <m0xKbkb-000RXKC@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Pete,

I liked it too. (so did the audience - I wasn't into "head down and 
focused on the task" mode)

Phil 

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:42:49 +0200
From: 7302 <7302@ssj.dtu.dk>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: first public loop
Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=ihs.dk%l=JAGUAR-971013104249Z-1017@jaguar.ihs.dk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi Pete!

I'm new to this list ... I just want to tell you that I would have loved
to be there, but ...
well, I'm from Denmark!
I'm living in a small town and I know how it is with people who don't
understand ones art.

Have fun ...

Stefan.

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 07:54:35 -0500
From: Tom Spaulding <tspauldi@gibson.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: URGENT!! HELP REQUEST
Message-Id: <97Oct13.075716cdt.26883@gateway.gibson.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Not quite yet...stay tuned, we have our top people on it!

Tom @ Oberheim



At 05:42 PM 10/12/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>8th St music in Phil will give you the best price. get in line.....ciao
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Leonardo Cavallo <LEO@DINONET.IT>
>>To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
>>Date: Saturday, October 11, 1997 4:42 AM
>>Subject: URGENT!! HELP REQUEST
>>
>>
>>> Hi all
>>>
>>>I'd like to know where can I find in N.Y. a new, upgraded Oberheim Echoplex
>>>Digital Pro with pedalboard. Any store reccomended? Info on line about
>>>disponibility? I can search on the web if you give me the store names.
>>>This is because I've got a friend of mine in N.Y. during the next week who
>>>could buy the unit for me...
>>>Any suggestions? Please help me AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
>>>
>>>thanks in advance
>>>Leo
>
>Does this mean that new Echoplexes are available again in the USA? 
>Erik (Norway)
>
>
>

------------------------------
Date: 13 Oct 1997 10:39:37 -0700
From: "Hartnett, Travis" <Hartnett#m#_Travis@msgate.apple.com>
To: "Loopers Delight postings" <loopers-delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: FS:Vortex $180
Message-ID: <n1335390198.13109@msgate.apple.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; Name="Message Body"

>from Harmony Central:

FS: Lexicon Vortex CHEAP

Asking Price: US$180
Condition: Excellent
Age: N/A
Description:

       Lexicon Vortex
       Morphing FX processor
       No AC adapter (takes standard 9V, 1 Amp adapter, readily found
in any Radio Shack)
       One corner of rack ears broken, so it'll only screw in with 3
screws instead of 4
       Otherwise, excellent+ condition

       $180 + shipping
       Located in Philadelphia

       ***Remove NOSPAM to reply***

Seller: Gary Philips,
E-mail: prana@voicenet.com
Location: PHILADELPHIA, PA
Post Date: 10/12/97

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 97 11:28:14 -0000
From: "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.com>
To: "Looper's Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: looping vocals, guitar or both?
Message-Id: <199710131624.JAA18520@scv2.apple.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Before I got a mixer, I used to use a setup like this, and it works great 
as long as you remember not to switch between the the inputs while the 
record function is active, otherwise you end up with a "popping" sound in 
the loop.

Travis Hartnett

>Morley makes a couple of pedals along these lines; the one I use has one 
>input/output jack, an A jack, and a B jack.  You can select between A 
>alone, B alone, or A and B combined.  I use it live when I'm running two 
>amps at once to switch between a "normal" unprocessed guitar sound and my 
>looped stereo rig, by plugging my guitar into the in/out jack and running 
>each of the A and B jacks to one of the amps.  But there's no reason you 
>couldn't invert the formula, i.e. plug a mike into A, a guitar into B, 
>and then send the in/out jack signal into your looper.

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 13:19:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andre LaFosse <altruist@shoko.calarts.edu>
To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Oberheim Echoplex available in Southern California
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.91.971013131713.20521A-100000@shoko.calarts.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

A store in Westminster, CA (Orange County) has a demo Oberheim Echoplex
for sale.  They'll be offering it for $399 at their Swap Meet on October
18th and 19th.  I called ahead and was told that the unit would not be put
on sale before that time, but I wouldn't be surprised if they'd sell it
for retail to someone before the sale if an interested party came along (I
saw a unit on the showroom floor when I was there over a year ago, and
it's entirely possible that this is the same one). 

My first inclination was to show up at the door of the place on the
morning of the 18th, but right now I can't afford the unit, so hopefully
one of you out there can snatch the thing up. 

The store is called Music to the Maxx; they're located at 14200 Beach
Blvd. in Westminster, and the # is (714) 379-1994.  Good luck. 

--Andre

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 23:55:03 +0100
From: Erik Ljones <eriklj@stud.ntnu.no>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: guitar amp+speakers vs. PA
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971013235503.00746f78@pop.stud.ntnu.no>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

As I can't afford both, I'd really appreciate it if someone could help me
compose a rig for looping guitars that:
A) Sound good for playing electric guitar in a straightforward manner, and
B) is able to amplify my HEAVILY treated, synth-like guitar signals.
Everything has to be in stereo, by the way.

I currently use a Rocktron Voodo Valve tube driven pre-amp (with a speaker
simulator & digital effects that I usually bypass) and a Roctron Velocity
power amp. I've tried this setup with different speakers made for guitars,
and the problem is that it wont really convert the frequencies not in the
guitar domain into sound. Are there any ok sounding speakers made for
guitars on the market that will do this? Or do I have to run my pre-amp
w/speaker simulator into a mixer in order to obtain B). What equipment
should I consider in the latter case?
What I'm looking for, I guess, is a solution that gives the best compromise
between  A) and B). I'd really, really appreciate any feedback and advice
you could give on this. If you think this is a bit off topic, please feel
free to e-mail me privatly. Thanks

Also, someone mentioned that using e-bowed guitars with a vocoder might be
a good idea. I have tried this, replacing the synth with guitar signals,
and it works ok if the signal is really thick and wide. Try placing the
vocoder after a loop with lots of (processed) layers. It gives the vocoder
a better signal to work with. Again, thanks.

Erik Ljones (Norway)

   

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 17:09:35 -0700
From: Chris Chovit <cho@newdream.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: guitar amp+speakers vs. PA
Message-Id: <v03102800b068621292a8@[137.79.95.51]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Erik,
I have experienced this problem also.  Unfortunately, the best solution I
found was using two sets of speakers.  I use a Boogie 50/50 tube amp
powering 2  1x12" cabinets, w/ Celestion Greenbacks for my guitar sounds
(and loops) and I use a full-range amp/speaker setup (currently using home
stereo equipment for this) for non-guitar sounds and loops, as well as
heavily processed guitar sounds (eg. Vortex).  Of course, the problem with
this is that it is expensive, both in terms of having to have 2 separate
amp/speaker setups, a 4-buss mixer, as well as needing multiple looping
devices (since I dedicate a looping device for either guitar or non-guitar
sounds).  But it is the best sounding setup I have found.  (My brother uses
a similar setup, as well).

I suppose the next best option is to just use full-range speakers, either a
PA speaker (2 or 3-way), or, if you just have 1x12" cabinets, try a EV 200
watt.  These will give you the bass frequencies you are looking for, but
you really need something with a mid-range and/or tweeter to get the detail
of the higher frequencies.  Also, you would not get that "guitar character"
from speaker breakup, if that's what you're looking for (I am -- and those
greenbacks do it for me!....think: Jimmy Page's lead on Tea For One), but
perhaps you can use your Rocktron effects to simulate a tube amp/speaker
combination.  How does your guitar setup sound, when listening through
headphones?  If you like that, then full-range PA speakers should do it for
you.  If you're a purist, though, you may want to bail on the full-range,
and go for the tone and dynamics of a guitar speaker, which cannot be
matched by a PA speaker.  You need to decide where you want to compromise.
Good luck!

Cheers,
Chris


>As I can't afford both, I'd really appreciate it if someone could help me
>compose a rig for looping guitars that:
>A) Sound good for playing electric guitar in a straightforward manner, and
>B) is able to amplify my HEAVILY treated, synth-like guitar signals.
>Everything has to be in stereo, by the way.
>
>I currently use a Rocktron Voodo Valve tube driven pre-amp (with a speaker
>simulator & digital effects that I usually bypass) and a Roctron Velocity
>power amp. I've tried this setup with different speakers made for guitars,
>and the problem is that it wont really convert the frequencies not in the
>guitar domain into sound. Are there any ok sounding speakers made for
>guitars on the market that will do this? Or do I have to run my pre-amp
>w/speaker simulator into a mixer in order to obtain B). What equipment
>should I consider in the latter case?
>What I'm looking for, I guess, is a solution that gives the best compromise
>between  A) and B). I'd really, really appreciate any feedback and advice
>you could give on this. If you think this is a bit off topic, please feel
>free to e-mail me privatly. Thanks
>
>Also, someone mentioned that using e-bowed guitars with a vocoder might be
>a good idea. I have tried this, replacing the synth with guitar signals,
>and it works ok if the signal is really thick and wide. Try placing the
>vocoder after a loop with lots of (processed) layers. It gives the vocoder
>a better signal to work with. Again, thanks.
>
>Erik Ljones (Norway)
>
>

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 17:23:37 -0700
From: Tom Attix <toma@microsoft.com>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: guitar amp+speakers vs. PA
Message-ID: <41DE695CE6FCCF11AD1000805FCCF8EC36D1EB@SF-01-MSG.dns.microsoft.com>

I'm running my guitar through a Mesa VTwin pedal into my looping gear
and finally into a Roland K500 keyboard amp. My setup isn't stereo but
could easily be made stereo (just throw on another amp). For straight
guitar (with Mesa) this setup works pretty well, but you wouldn't
mistake it for a real guitar amp. If your straight guitar work runs more
towards rock than jazz, you probably won't be satisfied with anything
short of an actual guitar amp. For more melodic applications, however, I
think I prefer my setup, it has a sweetness and a clarity that guitar
amps don't.   

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Erik Ljones [SMTP:eriklj@stud.ntnu.no]
> Sent:	Monday, October 13, 1997 4:02 PM
> To:	Tom Attix
> Subject:	guitar amp+speakers vs. PA
> 
> As I can't afford both, I'd really appreciate it if someone could help
> me
> compose a rig for looping guitars that:
> A) Sound good for playing electric guitar in a straightforward manner,
> and
> B) is able to amplify my HEAVILY treated, synth-like guitar signals.
> Everything has to be in stereo, by the way.
> 
> I currently use a Rocktron Voodo Valve tube driven pre-amp (with a
> speaker
> simulator & digital effects that I usually bypass) and a Roctron
> Velocity
> power amp. I've tried this setup with different speakers made for
> guitars,
> and the problem is that it wont really convert the frequencies not in
> the
> guitar domain into sound. Are there any ok sounding speakers made for
> guitars on the market that will do this? Or do I have to run my
> pre-amp
> w/speaker simulator into a mixer in order to obtain B). What equipment
> should I consider in the latter case?
> What I'm looking for, I guess, is a solution that gives the best
> compromise
> between  A) and B). I'd really, really appreciate any feedback and
> advice
> you could give on this. If you think this is a bit off topic, please
> feel
> free to e-mail me privatly. Thanks
> 
> Also, someone mentioned that using e-bowed guitars with a vocoder
> might be
> a good idea. I have tried this, replacing the synth with guitar
> signals,
> and it works ok if the signal is really thick and wide. Try placing
> the
> vocoder after a loop with lots of (processed) layers. It gives the
> vocoder
> a better signal to work with. Again, thanks.
> 
> Erik Ljones (Norway)
> 
>    

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 22:48:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Fmplautus@aol.com
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re:  Re: guitar amp+speakers vs. PA
Message-ID: <971013224539_-58683968@emout18.mail.aol.com>

Try an ADA Ampulator if you're running into a PA.  It's a box that emulated
not only a mic'd cabinet, but power tubes of various orders, and disorders,
doing different amp things...

The LoOpDoctOrs like it.  We got the idea from David Torn.  The only thing we
Don't like about it, is it's mono, but if you run it before a Vortex, you can
turn it stereo.

Best,
The LoOpDoctOrs

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 22:50:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Fmplautus@aol.com
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Hasn't anyone heard of the ADA Ampulator
Message-ID: <971013224848_1066000450@emout09.mail.aol.com>

Toma said...

"I'm running my guitar through a Mesa VTwin pedal into my looping gear
and finally into a Roland K500 keyboard amp. My setup isn't stereo but
could easily be made stereo (just throw on another amp). For straight
guitar (with Mesa) this setup works pretty well, but you wouldn't
mistake it for a real guitar amp. If your straight guitar work runs more
towards rock than jazz, you probably won't be satisfied with anything
short of an actual guitar amp. For more melodic applications, however, I
think I prefer my setup, it has a sweetness and a clarity that guitar
amps don't. "

We agree...nothing like whacko power tubes and transformers for good ol' rock
tone...but we are impressed by the magic tricks of the ADA ampulator.  Does a
good job of sounding and "feeling" like a runaway guitar amp...and get this,
you can adjust mic'd positions, tube bias, cabinet loads, and "classes" of
amps.

It's quite an interesting beast.  Only drawback is thatit's Mono...but just
put it in front of a Vortex and you're off...

Best,
The LoOpDoctOrs  

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 08:51:49 -0400
From: "Bruce Gerow" <bgerow@ny.tds.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: FS: Vortex
Message-Id: <199710140951.EAA01804@mail.tds.net>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi Loopers,
	Vortex has power supply,manual,footswitch,original box.Only thing missing
is the footswitch cord (standard 1/4" tip,ring,sleeve).Price is $265.plus
shipping from Oneida,NY.I'm posting to the Looper list a day ahead of the
net .It goes to the first person who says to ship it.
	Thanks,
	   LooseBruce

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 04:26:35 -0700
From: "That's MISTER Johnson to you, bucko" <stick@psn.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Vortex
Message-Id: <199710141123.EAA17285@saturn.psn.net>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I'm interested.  Let me know, strangely, we are both selling stuff at the
same time.  If the guy buys my Warr Raptor like I think he is, I'll take it
right now.  How do you want the payment?

Tom Johnson tappy@usa.net stick@psn.net
                 6+6 Maple Warr Raptor
**************************************************************
"This is America, and you are entitled to think what we 
want you to."  --Bill Hicks

----------
> From: Bruce Gerow <bgerow@ny.tds.net>
> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> Subject: FS: Vortex
> Date: Tuesday, October 14, 1997 5:51 AM
> 
> Hi Loopers,
> 	Vortex has power supply,manual,footswitch,original box.Only thing
missing
> is the footswitch cord (standard 1/4" tip,ring,sleeve).Price is $265.plus
> shipping from Oneida,NY.I'm posting to the Looper list a day ahead of the
> net .It goes to the first person who says to ship it.
> 	Thanks,
> 	   LooseBruce
> 

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 12:55:15 +0200
From: "Stefano Voulaz" <voulaz@korg.it>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: R: Vortex
Message-Id: <19971014125422.045782e4.in@mail.korg.it>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Yes yes yes yes... Will you ship to Italy? I want it!!!!
BTW, thank you for any reply...
CIAO from Stefano - The Looping Uncle ;)

-----Messaggio originale-----
Da: Bruce Gerow <bgerow@ny.tds.net>
A: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Data: martedl 14 ottobre 1997 13.59
Oggetto: FS: Vortex



>Hi Loopers,
> Vortex has power supply,manual,footswitch,original box.Only thing missing
>is the footswitch cord (standard 1/4" tip,ring,sleeve).Price is $265.plus
>shipping from Oneida,NY.I'm posting to the Looper list a day ahead of the
>net .It goes to the first person who says to ship it.
> Thanks,
>    LooseBruce
>
>

--------------------------------