------------------------------
Loopers-Delight-d Digest				Volume 97 : Issue 182

Today's Topics:
  Re: Boomerang Address                 [ Grover Sheffield <gls@mindspring.co ]
  Re: Firewire (IEEE1394) interfaces    [ Grover Sheffield <gls@mindspring.co ]
  member                                [ DENNIS PISKO <pisko@ix.netcom.com> ]
  Re: Re: It could be a new looping de  [ Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com> ]
  Re: It could be a new looping device  [ Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com> ]
  Re: Firewire (IEEE1394) interfaces    [ Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com> ]
  EFC-7 Measurements                    [ "future perfect" <artmusic@gte.net> ]
  Re[3]: Electro-Harmonix Delay 16      [ miguel.barella@poyry.com.br (MAT) ]
  LOOP: Introduction                    [ Haible Juergen <Juergen.Haible@nbgm ]
  hearing a mistake repeated ad infini  [ David Kirkdorffer <DKirkdorffer@exa ]
  Re: LOOP: Introduction                [ "Julia & Dave" <jndk@colba.net> ]
  Re: hearing a mistake repeated ad in  [ "Julia & Dave" <jndk@colba.net> ]
  Re: LOOP: Introduction                [ Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com> ]
  Re: hearing a mistake repeated ad in  [ Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com> ]
  Are there any Italian loopers our th  [ Fmplautus@aol.com ]
  Re: It could be a new looping device  [ Chris Chovit <cho@newdream.net> ]
  RE: hearing a mistake repeated ad in  [ "Pete Gilbert" <PeteGilbert@classic ]
  Re: It could be a new looping device  [ "Joseph Buck" <josephbuck@hotmail.c ]
  RE: hearing a mistake repeated ad in  [ Len Seligman <seligman@mitre.org> ]

Administrivia:
Looper's Delight
****************

Please send posts to:

Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com

Don't send them to the digest!

To subscribe/unsubscribe to the Loopers-Delight digest version, send email
with "subscribe" (or "unsubscribe") in both the subject and the body, with no
signature files, to:

Loopers-Delight-d-request@annihilist.com


To subscribe/unsubscribe to the real Loopers-Delight list, send email
with "subscribe" (or "unsubscribe") in both the subject and the body, with no
signature files, to:

Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com


Check the web page for archives and lots of other goodies!

http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html


Your humble list maintainer,

Kim Flint
kflint@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 21:14:38 -0600
From: Grover Sheffield <gls@mindspring.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Boomerang Address
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19971028031438.006e9d34@pop.mindspring.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 07:46 PM 10/27/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Would someone mind sending me the email address for the people behind the
>boomerang...their sight takes way to long to open...

Boomerang email: mnelson@dmans.com
telephone: 1-800-530-4699

Mr. Nelson (player and rang developer) was entertaining and informative when
I talked to him re: the Boomerang.   He also provided some names of vendors;
check with several, as asking prices varied by $30-40 for me.  Could pay for
a night out?  Good luck..

        Grover

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 21:44:47 -0600
From: Grover Sheffield <gls@mindspring.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Firewire (IEEE1394) interfaces
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19971028034447.006dbd60@pop.mindspring.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 01:34 PM 10/22/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Microsoft is pushing both firewire and USB, and both are supposed to be part
>of Windows 98. USB will be on everything, while firewire is a high bandwidth
>option for medium and high-end machines, especially those for multimedia
>applications. Sort of like how now, every machine has a printer port, but
>not everything has ethernet or scsi. Firewire is supposed to replace things
>like scsi, parallel ports, and ethernet for some applications. It will be
>used for audio, digital video, disk drives, dvd drives, scanners, printers,
>digital cameras, etc. In this context, musical instruments are another pc
>peripheral and would be expected to have this interface too.


Kim, 
        WOW.  From a non-EE perspective, you've e-mailed some pretty
provocative prose about firewire and MIDI.  So... when do I look for
on-the-fly looping capabilities (with foot control!) plugged into a
notebook-style computer?  Will Digitech, Boomerang, Oberheim EP, etc.
continue to be the most best looping tools for several years? 
        Also sounds like MIDI is becoming dinosaur-ish.  As a guitar-MIDI-
dabbler (AXON), I'm fascinated.  I'd love to hear more about what you see
coming.  Thanks again for all your looper e-mail work and the looping
comments/information.  BTW, DID YOU visit Tom at Oberheim??  


                Grover 

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 23:33:29 -0500
From: DENNIS PISKO <pisko@ix.netcom.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: member
Message-ID: <34556B19.3E04@ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

hello 
SIGHN ME UP
	eMAIL PISKO@IX.NETCOM.COM

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 23:40:53 -0700
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re:  Re:  It could be a new looping device.
Message-Id: <v03102804b07b375d6859@[207.171.198.151]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 8:11 AM -0500 10/27/97, Dpcoffin@aol.com wrote:
><<I think most people who want to do nutty midi tricks like this just use
>Opcode's Max. ...
>advantage of max is you program it, so it's uniquely your thing and you
>don't have to be confined to someone else's ideas, or their need to make a
>profit.>>
>I've been gazing at Max with interest for years, and am even on the Max
>list...but trying to make sense of the hi-level gibberish of all those
>MAX-heads has been pretty fatal to my interest, not being a programmer...

Actually, most of the real programmers I know couldn't relate to max at
all, and hated it. Most of the musicians had no trouble. The graphical
approach seems to require a different sort of conceptualization of things
than writing C code, and better appeals to creative types in my experience.
Don't let the nerdy types fool you....


>I know, all you programmer types think that anyone can get going with just a
>little effort, but I've already wasted WAY too much time trying to get
>anything but garbage and tech support frequent flyer miles out of WAY too
>many expensive software packages that just weren't plug-and-play enough for
>my math-free liberal arts background.
>And staring at a computer screen just isn't my idea of making music, much as
>I love the possibilities, and have been seduced by them (I even dig manuals,
>go figure!). I've got two Macs, a slew of arcane and expensive MIDI programs
>and Digidesign stuff, and am finally realizing that I'm just a hardware,
>dedicated-box, real-time, stomp-on-it kinda guy.....
>Thanks for the tip, tho!
>dpc

I would say, just try it. I find max to be perfect for the more real time
stuff. I can quickly make it do exactly what I want, rather than spending
time trying to dicipher a poorly documented function in some other device
to force it to my needs. And I can put big ol sliders and knobs on the
screen to control things the way I want to, and activate them with the
mouse or some other external controller. I don't use it much, but it's real
handy when I need it.

kim


______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 23:54:26 -0700
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: It could be a new looping device.
Message-Id: <v03102805b07b39a7f20d@[207.171.198.151]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I just remembered where this thread started.....


>Hi out there.
>
>I'm in the process of establishing a company with a product line of "out
>there" musical effects and accessories. What I refer to as "out there"
>is anything that is wild, bizarre or in some way new and/or different
>that other products on the market.
>Therefore I would ask all of you "out there" people to tell me what you
>would like. Everything from small ideas to complete product descriptions
>will be appreciated.

well, I'm not giving away my ideas, but some advice if you want to avoid my
flaming wrath:

a) use a real power supply, not wall warts!

b) if there is a bypass, make it a true bypass or make the audio path clean
enough that nobody can tell.

c) don't use the wrong type of capacitors in the audio path or crappy
sounding opamps. Good audio circuit design always!

d) build it to last, for real musicians to use and abuse. Don't design your
products like shoddy consumer electronics.

e) if you go digital, use good quality convertors. The prices are low, use
the good stuff.


>I don't think and hope that this letter in anyway break to rules for
>this list. After all, we will all benefit from this.

I certainly don't have a problem with it. :-)  Love to hear more about what
you are up to.

kim


______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 00:24:16 -0700
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Firewire (IEEE1394) interfaces
Message-Id: <v03102807b07b3d48cc65@[207.171.198.151]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 9:44 PM -0600 10/27/97, Grover Sheffield wrote:
>At 01:34 PM 10/22/97 -0700, you wrote:
>>Microsoft is pushing both firewire and USB, and both are supposed to be part
>>of Windows 98. USB will be on everything, while firewire is a high bandwidth
>>option for medium and high-end machines, especially those for multimedia
>>applications. Sort of like how now, every machine has a printer port, but
>>not everything has ethernet or scsi. Firewire is supposed to replace things
>>like scsi, parallel ports, and ethernet for some applications. It will be
>>used for audio, digital video, disk drives, dvd drives, scanners, printers,
>>digital cameras, etc. In this context, musical instruments are another pc
>>peripheral and would be expected to have this interface too.
>
>
>Kim,
>        WOW.  From a non-EE perspective, you've e-mailed some pretty
>provocative prose about firewire and MIDI.  So... when do I look for
>on-the-fly looping capabilities (with foot control!) plugged into a
>notebook-style computer?  Will Digitech, Boomerang, Oberheim EP, etc.
>continue to be the most best looping tools for several years?

I think devices like these have plenty of years left in them. A dedicated
item can always beat a general purpose one. What you will see is the
continued blurring of the lines between PCs and consumer electronics,
appliances, etc. The PC will expand off the desktop boundary, and other
devices (like musical instruments) will acquire more pc-like features, and
will more easily connect to them. Thats not to say things become more
complicated to use, on the contrary, average items should become smarter
and make themselves easier to use. (except when microsoft is involved,
natch. :-) )


>        Also sounds like MIDI is becoming dinosaur-ish.  As a guitar-MIDI-
>dabbler (AXON), I'm fascinated.  I'd love to hear more about what you see
>coming.

well, I'm playing an acoustic guitar in between sentences, so what do I
know? I hear that techno with country samples is the next fad, they call it
barnhouse. A 303 and a tele is all you need.

>Thanks again for all your looper e-mail work and the looping
>comments/information.  BTW, DID YOU visit Tom at Oberheim??

I visited Tom at Oberheim. I often visit Tom Oberheim, but not at Oberheim.
I used to see Buchla at g-wiz, but I haven't seen don or g-wiz in some
time. I enjoyed seeing JT and his unique perspective again. I'm more likely
to visit cnmat at ucb than ccrma, and I certainly wouldn't object to a trip
to ircam. anyway....

Yes, they shipped me back to Gnashville, where I whipped their butts into
an echoplexian fervor. :-)

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 03:41:50 -0500
From: "future perfect" <artmusic@gte.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: EFC-7 Measurements
Message-ID: <01bce37d$557cf140$81ec73cf@artmusic>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I was wondering if anyone with an EFC-7 footcontroller for the Plex could
take out a ruler and give me the dimensions..I'm trying to build a
pedalboard for my footswitches, etc and my Plex has not yet come in. I need
to know how much room I should leave for it.
Thanks,
Dave Eichenberger

*********************************************************************
'Future Perfect' - progressive art music - visit our website at:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/8082
"Better to be present with a bad note, than absent from a good one" -Robert
Fripp

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 07:49:09 +0300
From: miguel.barella@poyry.com.br (MAT)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, Fmplautus@aol.com 
Subject: Re[3]: Electro-Harmonix Delay 16
Message-ID: <00003EBB.@poyry.com.br>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: cc:Mail note part

     Yes, tthis is the reason why we want everything.
     
     
     Miguel


___________________________ Separador de Resposta ______________________________
Assunto: Re:  Re: Electro-Harmonix Delay 16
Autor:  Fmplautus@aol.com na internet
Data:    27/10/1997 16:05


Dave...
     
The LoOpDoctOrs agree that the EH is the milk of the mother of loopers, but 
we have to say that for a digital device the Jamman sounds GREAT.  
     
Best,
The LoOpDoctOrs
     

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 12:51:17 +0100
From: Haible Juergen <Juergen.Haible@nbgm.siemens.de>
To: loop <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: LOOP: Introduction
Message-ID: <1BF5E20E0C4DD111BBAB00805FE2D58204F42F@nbgm336a.nbgm.siemens.de>
Content-Type: text/plain

Hi!

I have recently found this very nice page about Looping, when I did a
web
search for "Soundscapes" (When will the new Fripp album finally come?).
Then I subs*ribed at your list, and now I think it's
time to introduce myself:

My name is Juergen Haible,
I am mostly interested in analogue synthesizers
(old commercial ones as well as building my own ones).

I love synth albums like Klaus Schulze's "X" (tape loops of a string
orchestra,
and a lot of electronics), Brian Eno's "On Land" as well as Robert Fripp
stuff
like "A Blessing of tears" and "Damage".
I also have all of Eberhard Weber's albums, and I saw him live one time
some years ago, doing increadible things with his bass and some delay
units.

Delays and Loops are something I find very fascinating, although I
haven't got a unit than can do more than 1 second at the moment.
I use several ones in series, however. Since a few weeks, I have a setup
like this:

Yamaha CS-50 as sound source (One of the best synths in terms of real
time
control ever!), then an Amdek delay machine (rather short BBD delay, but
I can
change it from flanging to echo continuously with one knob, and I have
it
modified with an optoelectronic limiter for very smooth distortion on
100%
feedback), then a Delta Lab Effectron for 1-second loops, then  a MAM
Resonator filter bank to color the echoes, and finally a Dynacord SRS 56

(BBD multitap echo) for ambience.

Playing this is very much fun, but I feel the 1-second loop is a severe
limitation.
So maybe I should buy a special loop delay in the near future. Realtime
control
is most important for me, as well as a pleasant sounding overload
characteristic
(I hate digital distortion ...). Glitch-free switching to one octave
lower with one
knob (no cascaded menues !) would be nice, and reverse playing, of
course.
What shall I look for?

If you want to know more about me or my instruments, feel free to ask, 
or visit the page that Kevin Lightner has built up for me at 

http://www.synthfool.com/diy/hj.html

Best Regards,

JH.

PS.: All mails from the loop list show only the adress of the original
sender, but
       no hint of the list (other than the contents, of course). So it's
hard to tell
       private mail from public mail when I want to respond. 
       Why not generally begin the subject line with "LOOP", when it is
a public
       (list) mail ? (Just an idea.)

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 09:36:55 -0500
From: David Kirkdorffer <DKirkdorffer@exapps.com>
To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com
Subject: hearing a mistake repeated ad infinitum can be especially painful
	.
Message-ID: <30C4F9E5EBE1D0118B760000C0DD100F2F5075@MAIL>
Content-Type: text/plain

	>8.   Do you find looping to be a valuable pursuit in regards to
	>      developing composition skills and playing technique?
>
It can be very helpful as a compositional sketchpad.  Regarding "playing
technique" ...looping may force you to play more carefully, since
hearing a mistake repeated ad infinitum can be especially painful.



I got a hoot out of reading this!  There's nothing like that moment of
exquisite pain when one realizes he or she has just pasted the "wrong"
note to, what had up to that point been, a beautiful loop.

David

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:46:30 -0800
From: "Julia & Dave" <jndk@colba.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: LOOP: Introduction
Message-Id: <199710281547.KAA18771@mail.colba.net>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi, and welcome.

Nice to see more synth people on the list.  BTW, I enjoyed
your page.

Cheers,

D 4 V 1 D    K R 1 5 T 1 4 N
 
"Echo is Instant Nostalgia"

  jndk@colba.net

  http://www.total.net/~alien8/Kristian.html

----------
> From: Haible Juergen <Juergen.Haible@nbgm.siemens.de>
> To: loop <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
> Subject: LOOP: Introduction
> Date: Tuesday, October 28, 1997 3:51 AM
> 
> Hi!
> 
> I have recently found this very nice page about Looping, when I did a
> web
> search for "Soundscapes" (When will the new Fripp album finally come?).
> Then I subs*ribed at your list, and now I think it's
> time to introduce myself:
> 

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:55:00 -0800
From: "Julia & Dave" <jndk@colba.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: hearing a mistake repeated ad infinitum can be especially painful.
Message-Id: <199710281555.KAA19493@mail.colba.net>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

IMHO, After you've heard a mistake looping ad infinitum, maybe it's time
to ask yourself if it should still be considered a mistake.

DK

----------
> From: David Kirkdorffer <DKirkdorffer@exapps.com>
> To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com
> Subject: hearing a mistake repeated ad infinitum can be especially
painful.
> Date: Tuesday, October 28, 1997 6:36 AM
> 
> 	>8.   Do you find looping to be a valuable pursuit in regards to
> 	>      developing composition skills and playing technique?
> >
> It can be very helpful as a compositional sketchpad.  Regarding "playing
> technique" ...looping may force you to play more carefully, since
> hearing a mistake repeated ad infinitum can be especially painful.
> 
> 
> 
> I got a hoot out of reading this!  There's nothing like that moment of
> exquisite pain when one realizes he or she has just pasted the "wrong"
> note to, what had up to that point been, a beautiful loop.
> 
> David

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:16:10 -0800
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: LOOP: Introduction
Message-Id: <v03102800b07bdb41a042@[207.171.198.151]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:46 AM -0800 10/28/97, Julia & Dave wrote:
>Hi, and welcome.
>
>Nice to see more synth people on the list.

yes, definitely! Gotta dilute all these damn guitarists. I'd love to hear
more about how you guys use synths in your loops, as I continue to drift in
that direction....


Haible said:
>PS.: All mails from the loop list show only the adress of the original
>sender, but
>       no hint of the list (other than the contents, of course). So it's
>hard to tell
>       private mail from public mail when I want to respond.
>       Why not generally begin the subject line with "LOOP", when it is
>a public
>       (list) mail ? (Just an idea.)


The "to:" line should have the "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" address. If
your mail program has filtering, you can use this to organize the list into
it's own mailbox.

kim


>BTW, I enjoyed
>your page.
>
>Cheers,
>
>D 4 V 1 D    K R 1 5 T 1 4 N
>
>"Echo is Instant Nostalgia"
>
>  jndk@colba.net
>
>  http://www.total.net/~alien8/Kristian.html
>
>----------
>> From: Haible Juergen <Juergen.Haible@nbgm.siemens.de>
>> To: loop <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
>> Subject: LOOP: Introduction
>> Date: Tuesday, October 28, 1997 3:51 AM
>>
>> Hi!
>>
>> I have recently found this very nice page about Looping, when I did a
>> web
>> search for "Soundscapes" (When will the new Fripp album finally come?).
>> Then I subs*ribed at your list, and now I think it's
>> time to introduce myself:
>>


______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:19:04 -0800
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: hearing a mistake repeated ad infinitum can be especially
 painful.
Message-Id: <v03102801b07bdca5f3ea@[207.171.198.87]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I always use the mistakes to develop the loop in a different way. Even more
of a growth inspiring challenge than listening to how badly my playing has
gotten lately, which I'm already keenly aware of.

Or I just press Undo.....

kim

At 10:55 AM -0800 10/28/97, Julia & Dave wrote:
>IMHO, After you've heard a mistake looping ad infinitum, maybe it's time
>to ask yourself if it should still be considered a mistake.
>
>DK
>
>----------
>> From: David Kirkdorffer <DKirkdorffer@exapps.com>
>> To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com
>> Subject: hearing a mistake repeated ad infinitum can be especially
>painful.
>> Date: Tuesday, October 28, 1997 6:36 AM
>>
>> 	>8.   Do you find looping to be a valuable pursuit in regards to
>> 	>      developing composition skills and playing technique?
>> >
>> It can be very helpful as a compositional sketchpad.  Regarding "playing
>> technique" ...looping may force you to play more carefully, since
>> hearing a mistake repeated ad infinitum can be especially painful.
>>
>>
>>
>> I got a hoot out of reading this!  There's nothing like that moment of
>> exquisite pain when one realizes he or she has just pasted the "wrong"
>> note to, what had up to that point been, a beautiful loop.
>>
>> David


______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 13:21:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Fmplautus@aol.com
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Are there any Italian loopers our there?
Message-ID: <971028132112_1420664158@mrin44.mail.aol.com>

1/3rd of the LoOpDoctOrs is going to be in Italy in November.  If there are
any Italian loopers who would like to link up with their American cousins,
please let us know.

Ciao
The LoOpDoctOrs

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 11:42:11 +0100
From: Chris Chovit <cho@newdream.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: It could be a new looping device.
Message-Id: <v03007802b07b701c0a86@[1.1.1.9]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>>Hi out there.
>>
>>I'm in the process of establishing a company with a product line of "out
>>there" musical effects and accessories. What I refer to as "out there"
>>is anything that is wild, bizarre or in some way new and/or different
>>that other products on the market.
>>Therefore I would ask all of you "out there" people to tell me what you
>>would like. Everything from small ideas to complete product descriptions
>>will be appreciated.

How about a reasoably priced, yet high quality, line of musical instruments
for kids:  Product line could be: "My first anlaog synth", "My first
looper"," My first fx processor", "My first PA system",  etc.  They would
be modular and could be used by itself or with the other units. All units
have simple, but interactive interfaces.  Designed for kids, but high
fidelity enough for anybody to use.  And built to last!
just an idea....

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 97 19:36:57 UT
From: "Pete Gilbert" <PeteGilbert@classic.msn.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: RE: hearing a mistake repeated ad infinitum can be especially painful.
Message-Id: <UPMAIL07.199710281939550571@classic.msn.com>

one of the "charms" of the looping technique is to figure out how to make
that clunker sound like it was meant to be there. I have found two ways
(other than stopping and beginning again, of course):

1. cover it up. play something else very loud to drown out the mistake. 
maybe stack a chord with that interesting, extra note :-)

2. add some things around the mistake that make it sound intentional.
this can be tougher to do, but can lead the loop in interesting directions.

does anyone else have any suggestions?

Pete Gilbert (PeteGilbert@msn.com)

----------
From: 	Kim Flint
Sent: 	Tuesday, October 28, 1997 13:19
To: 	Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: 	Re: hearing a mistake repeated ad infinitum can be especially 
painful.

I always use the mistakes to develop the loop in a different way. Even more
of a growth inspiring challenge than listening to how badly my playing has
gotten lately, which I'm already keenly aware of.

Or I just press Undo.....

kim

At 10:55 AM -0800 10/28/97, Julia & Dave wrote:
>IMHO, After you've heard a mistake looping ad infinitum, maybe it's time
>to ask yourself if it should still be considered a mistake.
>
>DK
>
>----------
>> From: David Kirkdorffer <DKirkdorffer@exapps.com>
>> To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com
>> Subject: hearing a mistake repeated ad infinitum can be especially
>painful.
>> Date: Tuesday, October 28, 1997 6:36 AM
>>
>> 	>8.   Do you find looping to be a valuable pursuit in regards to
>> 	>      developing composition skills and playing technique?
>> >
>> It can be very helpful as a compositional sketchpad.  Regarding "playing
>> technique" ...looping may force you to play more carefully, since
>> hearing a mistake repeated ad infinitum can be especially painful.
>>
>>
>>
>> I got a hoot out of reading this!  There's nothing like that moment of
>> exquisite pain when one realizes he or she has just pasted the "wrong"
>> note to, what had up to that point been, a beautiful loop.
>>
>> David


______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 11:44:34 PST
From: "Joseph Buck" <josephbuck@hotmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: It could be a new looping device./ Toy hubbuberie
Message-ID: <19971028194434.25905.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

I actually have relied on a great deal of "toy" material in my career- 
PXL2000, Dianas, Casio and Suzuki oddities, little voice whatzits. 
Mainly because no company in their right mind would want to forsake 
fidelity. Although this is changing- people now are more willing to 
accept the funk- (Vortex anyone?).
So cheap intuitive funky modular stuff would be wonderful.  Wait isn't 
DOD already been doing that for years?

Salam,

Buck

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 15:33:46 -0500
From: Len Seligman <seligman@mitre.org>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: RE: hearing a mistake repeated ad infinitum can be especially
  painful.
Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19971028153346.0070c7d4@dharma.mitre.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>one of the "charms" of the looping technique is to figure out how to make
>that clunker sound like it was meant to be there. 
>
>does anyone else have any suggestions?

I'm actively involved in a non-profit organization--Music for People--that
subscribes to the philosophy that there are no wrong notes. Sometimes it's
a great exercise to play something as 
"wrong" as you can. One view is that all music consists of cycles of
tension and release, and wrong notes can be a great source of tension. (Of
course, once the clunker is in the loop, I'll admit it can be challenging
to get to the release part, unless you have Undo in your looper.)

Anyway, if you're interested in a wonderful network of music improvisors
that puts on some truly inspiring workshops, I suggest you check out the
Music for People home page:

http://www.mjb.com/mfp/

-Len Seligman

--------------------------------