------------------------------ Loopers-Delight-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 184 Today's Topics: Pt. 3 [ Andre LaFosse ] Re: Are there any Italian loopers ou [ Leonardo Cavallo ] Re: Pt. 3 ------------------------------ Loopers-Delight-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 184 Today's Topics: Pt. 3 [ Andre LaFosse < ] Re: Are there any Italian loopers ou [ Leonardo Cavallo < ] Re: Pt. 3 [ Kim Flint < ] Re: Pt. 3 [ Curtis Bahn < ] RE: hearing a mistake repeated ad in [ "paul.davies" < ] AW: Re[2]: Electro-Harmonix Delay 16 [ Haible Juergen < ] Re: AW: Re[2]: Electro-Harmonix Dela [ miguel.barella@poyry.com.br (MAT) ] ISO JamThing memory [ shadowcatcher < ] RE: ISO JamThing memory [ "Hogan, Greg (Exchange)" < ] Re: Jam Man Upgrade [ Joe Cavaleri < To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Pt. 3 Message-ID: < Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I took the Echoplex to a friend who's very handy with electronics and soldering; he checked the connections internally and re-soldered the pots for the MIX and FEEDBACK controls. The anomaly was still there. If this Echoplex's entire collection of circuitry was indeed replaced, then I would have to extend a partial retraction of my criticisms to Oberheim, as the sound would certainly have to be an indiginous element of the Echoplex's software. I've noticed this on both the original software and the current upgraded version, so if all of the circuitry in this unit was freshly installed within the last month, there's really no other explanation. If Tim Spaulding or someone else from Oberheim could please furnish me with a precise account of exactly which parts were or were not replaced, it would help get to the bottom of this strangeness. The comments I recieved, to the effect that the circuit board was replaced due to a lack of time to search in depth for the problem, left me somewhat unconvinced as to the depth of the repair work, but if all of the internal electronics are new then it must be an ideosyncrasy inherent to all Echoplex units, contrary to what had previously been stated. --Andre ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 03:24:06 -0500 (EST) From: Fmplautus@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Re: looping in Italia Message-ID: <<971029032405_-326052503@mrin39> Hi Robby: Where will you be in Italy and do you know the exact dates? Best, the LoOpDoctOrs ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 10:21:40 +0100 From: Leonardo Cavallo < To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: looping in Italia Message-ID: <<19971029092138281.AAB90@Default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 23.37 28/10/97 -0500, you wrote: >I'll be looping guitar with *Alice* alongside Mick Karn and Steve Jansen in >Italy and Germany in ear;y November for any of you interested in looping as >an element in "pop" music... >cool stuff. > >be cool, >Robby Aceto > > Have you the dates schedule? And what's your setup? leo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 10:21:42 +0100 From: Leonardo Cavallo < To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Are there any Italian loopers our there? Message-ID: <<19971029092138281.AAC90@Default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 13.21 28/10/97 -0500, you wrote: >1/3rd of the LoOpDoctOrs is going to be in Italy in November. If there are >any Italian loopers who would like to link up with their American cousins, >please let us know. > >Ciao >The LoOpDoctOrs > > Hi where and when are you going to stay?? ciao leo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 01:52:22 -0800 From: Kim Flint < To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Pt. 3 Message-Id: < Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Andre- At 12:09 AM -0800 10/29/97, Andre LaFosse wrote: >If this Echoplex's entire collection of circuitry was indeed replaced, >then I would have to extend a partial retraction of my criticisms to >Oberheim, as the sound would certainly have to be an indiginous element of >the Echoplex's software. I've noticed this on both the original software >and the current upgraded version, so if all of the circuitry in this unit >was freshly installed within the last month, there's really no other >explanation. Based on what you described of the sound in one of the previous mails (i.e. present during recording and when mute is on), it would seem unlikely that software would be generating it, since digital audio is turned completely off during those operations by an analog circuit. And since your noise only appears when the mix potentiometer is in a particular range, and the mix potentiometer is entirely part of an analog circuit, it would seem even less likely to have much to do with software. Also, oddly, your description seems rather different from what I recall you describing to me before, but no matter. I'm probably not remembering it right. And while I can certainly sympathize with your troubles in dealing with Oberheim's transitional period (believe me, I REALLY know what you're going through!), I don't think that flaming the hell out of the two guys who are working the hardest to set things straight, and who appear to have gone to extra effort just to make you happy, is the best approach. They are not the problem, they are part of an effort to correct it. Take a deep breath, and chill for a day, and then let's see if we can figure out where the buzzes are coming from. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 07:59:25 -0400 From: Curtis Bahn < To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Pt. 3 Message-ID: <<3457251C.7225@rpi.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I get a similar click when I bow my bass with the echoplex. I thought it was well-known that there is a gate on the input, it doesn't start recording until you send it a certain level. Maybe this gate is defeated at extremes of feedback. Couldn't this have created your symptoms. crb At 12:09 AM -0800 10/29/97, Andre LaFosse wrote: >If this Echoplex's entire collection of circuitry was indeed replaced, >then I would have to extend a partial retraction of my criticisms to >Oberheim, as the sound would certainly have to be an indiginous element of >the Echoplex's software. I've noticed this on both the original software >and the current upgraded version, so if all of the circuitry in this unit >was freshly installed within the last month, there's really no other >explanation. -- Curtis Bahn iEAR Studios, DCC 135 Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute Troy, New York, 12180 office (518) 276-4032 fax (518) 276-4780 email crb@rpi.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 97 13:28:51 +0000 From: "paul.davies" < To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: hearing a mistake repeated ad infinitum can be especially painful. Message-Id: <<971029132851.703@pserv.avri.bbsrc.ac.uk.0> Content-Return: allowed Many of my 'evolving' loopscapes seem to be based on real hummers! They prompt me to change key. As the duff notes mostly seem to be a semitone out, my textures tend to take on an Eastern feel. Incidentally, as a synth player, I tend to control Fc on the mod wheel or key velocity, making for some nice scapes. Loop on (and on) chums, Blim x ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 14:48:05 +0100 From: "Stefano Voulaz" < To: < Subject: R: Are there any Italian loopers our there? Message-Id: <<19971029144613.2a5105f0.in@mail.korg.it> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >1/3rd of the LoOpDoctOrs is going to be in Italy in November. If there are >any Italian loopers who would like to link up with their American cousins, >please let us know. > >Ciao >The LoOpDoctOrs YES! Here we are! Please give details, we (I, actually) are waiting to meet you... Ciao Stefano (The Looping Uncle) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 15:22:53 +0100 From: Haible Juergen < To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: AW: Re[2]: Electro-Harmonix Delay 16 Message-ID: <<1BF5E20E0C4DD111BBAB00805FE2D58205C09C@nbgm336a.nbgm.siemens.de> Content-Type: text/plain > > I also suggest Eno's On Land as a good example; if you are > familiar > > with the EH16 it's easy to identify when he uses it. > I *love* "On Land" (my absolute favorite Eno album), especially the slowed-down stuff. What are the parts he has done with the EH16? I was under the impression that he had used different tape speeds to get these deep rumbling sounds. But maybe it was the EH ? I also remember (vaguely) an interview of Eno from the On Land period or even a few years later, where he was asked what he thought about sampling, and he responded that it doesn't impress him because he did the same thing for years, using tape loops, and tape loops are much more convenient for him. Now using a device like the EH16 surely *is* a kind of sampling technique, so I am a little puzzled. Please tell me all you know about "On Land", and the instruments used on it ! JH. (... who suffers from the loss of half speed mode ever since I upgraded my multitrack from a cheap fostex casette 4-track to an 8-track R-8 ... any cure for that ? ) > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 09:23:50 -0500 (EST) From: RA336@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Re: looping in Italia Message-ID: <<971029092231_-1392880029@emout11.mail.aol.com> >And what's your setup? - simple for this gig: -modified PCM42/ stereo rig with a couple processors for the loops. feedback, mix, delay time cv pedals, reverse mod buncha footboxes; lotsa fuzzes... =fun! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 09:18:19 -0500 (EST) From: RA336@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Re: Re: looping in Italia Message-ID: <<971029091818_1014320042@mrin41.mail.aol.com> doctors all: > >Where will you be in Italy and do you know the exact dates? Milan; 10/31-11-04 Stuttgart 11/5 Wolfsburg 11/7 regards, RA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 09:11:45 -0600 From: Tom Spaulding < To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Cc: pmurphy@gibson.com, kpaul@gibson.com Subject: Re: The ongoing saga of Oberheim Message-Id: <<97Oct29.091435cst.26886@gateway.gibson.com> Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Well Andre, thanks for the public flogging. As I have shared with you in private e-mails, I am all too well aware of the task I have been given - fixing Oberheim. I have admitted and apologized for all of the past mistakes, untruths, lies and poor service of the past. I asked for everyone's patience and understanding as we continue to improve the situation here at Oberheim. But despite our efforts, it is apparent that we have erred again. I guess our latest mistake was agreeing to push your unit to the top of our priority list, ahead of all of the other patient users you feel so sorry for. Given your position - that speaking to others = speaking for others - I believe it best to say it will be 3-4 months until we are fully operational. We will not ship any Echoplex products until we are fully staffed. Good-faith quick fixes like installing updates will no longer be attempted. I realize that this policy will likely further annoy our customers who have certainly suffered enough, but it will preclude any misunderstandings or premature shipments on our part. We do not want a repeat of your scenario, so we will be more vigorous in our testing proceedures. The recent visit by Kim Flint has been invaluable to us and should speed the process along, but we will definitely take the side of caution from now on. Just don't confuse it with lethargy. My sincere apologies to all for the continued delays. Message to Andre: You were given an entirely new Echoplex board and software. It was our intetion to fix any problem you may have been having by replacing your entire board. It was our expectation that any specific problems that your unit had would be fixed by replacing the total circuit board. We were well aware of your notes on what the problem was, but rather than attempt to fix an old unit, we thought it would be best to essentially give you a new one. (Apparently the last batch of boards we received from our vendor had a mixture of pots with different shaft lenghths and widths. We will, of course, replace with different pots once we are fully operational). We left your check uncashed on purpose, and if my memory is correct, we still owe you an additional sum, for which I told you I would write you a personal check for if need be. Please e-mail me (publicly or privately) with the amount due and I will send the check. Message To All Echopex Users: I will keep you informed of the status of Oberheim and the Echoplex as the details become available. Forgive me for any past or future transgressions. It is my nature to try to help our existing users first, even as I was hired to sell to new ones. It is my belief that you and your Echoplex-derived music are the best sales team we could possibly have. Thank you. Tom (not Tim) Spaulding At 10:15 PM 10/28/97 -0600, you wrote: >The following information should be of interest to anyone curious as to >the current state of affairs at Oberheim in general, and the company's >customer service relations in particular. > >One week ago I recieved a phone message from Pat Murphy, stating that my >Echoplex was ready to be shipped back to me. I called him shortly >thereafter and spoke to him in person. He informed me that the repair >work had been completed, and that my unit had recieved a new circuit >board, as well as the software upgrade. He also said that my initial >cashier's check for $35, sent to cover the initial repair and processing >costs, would be returned to me, and that the second check, for $45, which >I had sent directly to Pat on the instruction of Mike Lyon, would be >refunded. > >I then asked Pat if there had been any problem in tracking down the >malfunction which had prompted my sending the unit in the first place -- a >trace of digital noise present in the decay or fade-in of notes into or >out of silence, which appeared when the mix knob was set to an >intermediate position within the two extremes and disappeared when the >knob was at one extreme or the other. > >In spite of the fact that I had previously outlined this problem, both in >e-mail to Dean Fouts (who had initially handled my repair job when I >first sent the unit to Oberheim in mid-July) and in a typed note which >was taped directly to the cashier's check which had been in the box with >the unit, Pat didn't seem to know what I was referring to. He did say, >however, that due to the current state at Oberheim, there had not been >time to run an exhaustive check on the unit, and he added that with the >new circuit board and upgraded software, I essentially had a brand-new >Echoplex, specifically citing the fact that the record and overdub >functions worked. Of course, since both of those functions had been >working when I had sent in the unit in the first place, this did not >speak volumes about the efficacy of the repair work. > >Today (Tuesday the 28th of October, one week after my conversation with >Pat Murphy), I recieved my Echoplex via UPS. Upon opening the unit, the >first thing I noticed was that the very note I had written, explaining the >technical problem I was encountering, was sitting atop the Echoplex, still >taped to the cashier's check just as it had been when I sent it in July. > >The second thing I noticed was that the four main control knobs on the >left-hand side of the unit are considerably further-out from the face of >the unit than they had been before I sent the unit in. The feedback knob >seems to be more or less the same, but each knob to the left is >progressively further out along the shaft extending from the pot on the >outside of the unit; this is taken to an extreme on the input kob, which >is actually detached from the main shaft of the pot itself and can be >easily slipped on and off of the pot. Although the pot still seems to >work, the knob itself is completely loose of the shaft. > >The input knob had been firmly affixed to the pot when I sent my unit in >to Oberheim three months ago. > >I then plugged the Echoplex in. Sure enough, the upgraded version of the >software was intact. I then began recording a loop; I faded in a note and >then let it die out. > >The exact same problem, which I had sent my unit in a fourth of a year ago >to have fixed, was and is still very much in evidence. The same digital >noise is present at the fade-in or fade-out of notes into or out of >silence. The noise disappears when the mix selector is turned to either >one extreme or the other. > >The analogy I would draw to the current situation is that of taking a car >in to have brake work done, being deprived of the vehicle for far longer >than I had been quoted, and then finally getting the car back with a new >transmission and polished exterior, but with the same brake problem firmly >intact and the previously undamaged rear-view mirror dangling by a thread >from the side of the car door. In neither case does this sort of >treatment fall under what I would characterize as acceptable behavior. > >I appreciate the fact that Oberheim replaced the circuit board. Since it >obviously made absolutely no difference in solving my problem, I would >have appreciated even more their taking some steps which would have >corrected the malfunction. > >Given that an account of the problem I had been experiencing had been both >sent to the customer service representative via e-mail and contained in >the very package itself, I have to wonder exactly why it was that this >problem was not addressed. > >Pat Murphy said that there had not been time to run as in-depth of an >analysis as would have been possible. I don't know how long it took >Oberheim to replace the circuit board, swap the software, and break the >knob on the input pot of my unit, but it seems to me that actually reading >the instructions I had provided with the unit and checking for the >specific problem I had detailed therein might have been a more effective >solution than arbitrarily replacing scads of internal electronics and >hoping that the problem (which they did not seem to be aware of, nor >capable of discerning from carefully written and provided information) >would be solved. > >The irony for me is that I had originally sent my Echoplex in to the >company because I felt that the esoteric nature of the device was such >that the repair work would be best left to the very company which had >marketed and released the product. The unit is now in worse condition >that when I had sent it in: in addition to the nebulous digital noise >problem, I now have to fix the detached input knob. > >There are a great many questions and allegations running through my head >at the moment, but they all fall under the banner of one general issue, >which is: What exactly is the problem at Oberheim, and what is it which >seems to be preventing the company from being able to function in an >intelligent manner? > >Message to Tim Spaulding, Pat Murphy, and all others at Oberheim: If you >want to undo the exhaustive self-inflicted damage done to your company, >start by actually taking the time to make sure that your repair jobs >actually repair the items you recieve, and avoid causing any further >damage than was originally present. I waited over twelve weeks for my >unit to be recieved. I certainly would not have minded waiting a bit >longer if that extra time had been taken to ensure that the device had >been repaired; I do, however, take exception and offense to my item being >"serviced" in a sloppy, arbitrary, and ultimately ineffectual manner. The >evidence before me is that no one at Oberheim even bothered to find out >what the specifics of my problem were. > >I feel sorry for Kim Flint, Matthias Grob, and the rest of the Echoplex >design team for having their vision entrusted to a company which seems >incapable of being able to function properly. I feel sorry for the many >users who have been waiting all too patiently for Oberheim to get their >act together. I feel sorry for myself for having spent three months >waiting in vain for a repair which was not done. And I feel a bit sorry >for Oberheim itself, which seems oblivious to the damage it is exacting on >itself in any managerial form, and incapable of correcting the turn of >events. > >I wish any other Oberheim customers the best of luck in their efforts at >dealing with the company. Based upon my own personal experience over the >last three months, they will most certainly need it. > >--Andre LaFosse > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 13:55:01 +0300 From: miguel.barella@poyry.com.br (MAT) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, Haible Juergen < Subject: Re: AW: Re[2]: Electro-Harmonix Delay 16 Message-ID: <<00004087.4007@poyry.com.br> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part It is difficult to indicate the parts by mail, but the "slow rumbles" were made with the EH (easy, just create the loop or sample then move the fast/slow switch to the slow position and voila: instant slow-down stuff). Actualy this switch moves the unit from 8 sec. (good fidelity) to 16 sec. (not so good but useful "no highs" sound). Miguel ___________________________ Separador de Resposta ______________________________ Assunto: AW: Re[2]: Electro-Harmonix Delay 16 Autor: Haible Juergen < na internet Data: 29/10/1997 15:22 > > I also suggest Eno's On Land as a good example; if you are > familiar > > with the EH16 it's easy to identify when he uses it. > I *love* "On Land" (my absolute favorite Eno album), especially the slowed-down stuff. What are the parts he has done with the EH16? I was under the impression that he had used different tape speeds to get these deep rumbling sounds. But maybe it was the EH ? I also remember (vaguely) an interview of Eno from the On Land period or even a few years later, where he was asked what he thought about sampling, and he responded that it doesn't impress him because he did the same thing for years, using tape loops, and tape loops are much more convenient for him. Now using a device like the EH16 surely *is* a kind of sampling technique, so I am a little puzzled. Please tell me all you know about "On Land", and the instruments used on it ! JH. (... who suffers from the loss of half speed mode ever since I upgraded my multitrack from a cheap fostex casette 4-track to an 8-track R-8 ... any cure for that ? ) > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 12:16:33 -0800 From: shadowcatcher < To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: ISO JamThing memory Message-Id: < Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Howdy all, I got a JamMan recently and I was wondering if anyone here has a current line on where to get the 32-second ZIP upgrade. Sorry if this has been addressed recently, I just joined the list and the archives aren't up to date. Thanks in a dvance, Carl J. "I felt that my old dream was closer to becoming true. You know that I dreamt of painting a big picture expressing joy, the happiness of life and the universe. Suddenly I feel the harmony of colours and forms that come from this world of joy." -- Kandinsky, 1917 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 13:54:15 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg (Exchange)" < To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" < Subject: RE: ISO JamThing memory Message-Id: <<215C1D5A0FFDD011B3CC00805FC18C29131FDF@NTSRV2.LEXICON.COM> Content-Type: text/plain Hello Carl J., JAMMAN ZIP DRAM Outside Sources Requirement: Qty 4, 1 MEG x 4 DRAM, 20-pin ZIPs, 100ns or faster. If vendor asks if you want Static Column or PAGE type RAM, ask for "PAGE". If the vendor asks for the voltage, ask for "+5 Volts". Vendors: Upgrades Etc. # - ???? Chips for Less 1-800-820-6009 T.T.I. Technologies 1-800-541-1943 Microprocessors Unlimited 1-918-267-4961 Mountain International 1-541-347-4450 For Mountain Int'l - ask for Model # GR-Zip 2 (this contains all 4 DRAM needed. Cost - $95 end user NOTE: The Lexicon part number is 021-09282 (all 4 DRAM) @ $175.00 Please let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything that I can do for you. Best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 781-280-0372 FAX 781-280-0499 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:59:08 From: robin.b2@ukonline.co.uk To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Anyone for T-Max? Message-Id: < Hi, I'm in the throes of ordering a theremax kit from paia, is there anyone else in the UK who would like to join with me to make a multiple order and save on the not inconsiderable shipping charges? For details of the Theremax Theremin see http://www.paia.com it's a nice design with velocity CV outputs as well as the normal pitch ones and audio of course. The full electronics kit (no case) is $86.25 without the (useless) wall-wart PSU. Just the PCB is $22.25. All above do not include shipping, any takers? if so I'd like to hear in the next few days or so and we'll work out a final price. Cheers, Robin. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 10:29:04 -0800 From: Kim Flint < To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Pt. 3 Message-Id: < Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Curtis, have you tried the new LoopIIIv5.0 software yet? The threshold for the gate was set much lower, so hopefully this won't be a problem anymore. I'd be interested to know if you still hear it while bowing. That's not Andre's problem, actually. He knows about that one since he through a fit about it last year. :-) He even called me at home that time, if I remember right.... kim At 7:59 AM -0400 10/29/97, Curtis Bahn wrote: >I get a similar click when I bow my bass with the echoplex. I thought >it was well-known that there is a gate on the input, it doesn't start >recording until you send it a certain level. Maybe this gate is >defeated at extremes of feedback. Couldn't this have created your >symptoms. > >crb > >At 12:09 AM -0800 10/29/97, Andre LaFosse wrote: >>If this Echoplex's entire collection of circuitry was indeed replaced, >>then I would have to extend a partial retraction of my criticisms to >>Oberheim, as the sound would certainly have to be an indiginous element of >>the Echoplex's software. I've noticed this on both the original software >>and the current upgraded version, so if all of the circuitry in this unit >>was freshly installed within the last month, there's really no other >>explanation. >-- > > >Curtis Bahn >iEAR Studios, DCC 135 >Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute >Troy, New York, >12180 >office (518) 276-4032 >fax (518) 276-4780 >email crb@rpi.edu ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:26:02 -0800 From: Joe Cavaleri < To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Jam Man Upgrade Message-Id: <<2.2.32.19971029192602.006998ec@svars1.simi-valley.ate.slb.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Company info: VisonSoft (800)735-2633 Homepage: http//www.visionsoft.com Price for 4 chips 9.95ea plus shipping, and sales tax. For California total price is 50.19. I just installed the upgrade last night. Chips seem to work fine. I requested the MICRON part number listed in the Jamman manual. Sorry I don't remember it at the momment. Hope this info helps, All the best joe At 11:13 PM 6/23/97 -0400, you wrote: > > > Hi, > > Just a note to anyone who has recently purchased the upgrade chips >for a Jam Man via mail order.... > > Can you forward the phone # of the place you ordered them from? > > How much was the kit? > > What brand name / part # were they? > > Apologies, I know this has been discussed previously but I only >recently acquired the unit and didn't save the information last time >around. > > Thanks, > > TREVOR. > VanEyck@interlog.com > > > > > --------------------------------