------------------------------
Loopers-Delight-d Digest				Volume 97 : Issue 185

Today's Topics:
  RE: Hearing a mistake repeated ad in  [ 7302 <7302@ssj.dtu.dk> ]
  Re: Anyone for T-Max?                 [ Grover Sheffield <gls@mindspring.co ]
  Re: The ongoing saga of Oberheim      [ Andre LaFosse <altruist@shoko.calar ]
  Re: The ongoing saga of Oberheim      [ "future perfect" <artmusic@gte.net> ]
  Re: The ongoing saga of Oberheim      [ "Randy Jones" <ranjones@texas.net> ]
  Re: EFC-7 Measurements                [ Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com> ]
  I hate to do this, but...             [ efisch@artnet.net (Eric R. Fischer) ]
  AW: The ongoing saga of Oberheim      [ Haible Juergen <Juergen.Haible@nbgm ]
  Re:Robby Aceto                        [ malhomme <malhomme@infobiogen.fr> ]
  It's away!                            [ "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." <pycraft ]
  Re: It's away!                        [ "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." <pycraft ]

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Kim Flint
kflint@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 01:19:58 +0100
From: 7302 <7302@ssj.dtu.dk>
To: 'Loopers-Delight' <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: Hearing a mistake repeated ad infinitum ...
Message-ID: <7906A58B2207D011B4CE00A024CF8B49070923@www.ihs.dk>
Content-Type: text/plain

Music does not exist ... it evolves!

A mistake is just a nice little wind of dust in the evolution.
One cannot remove the wind ... only flow with it.

Enjoy life and the mistakes you make,

Stefan.

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 20:01:34 -0600
From: Grover Sheffield <gls@mindspring.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Anyone for T-Max?
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19971030020134.0071995c@pop.mindspring.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 06:59 PM 10/29/97, you wrote:

>For details of the Theremax Theremin see http://www.paia.com it's a nice
>design with velocity CV outputs as well as the normal pitch ones and audio
of course.
>
>Robin, 
        I don't live in the UK, hope you've found someone who can split the
cost with you.  Thanks very very much, though, for providing the address for
the theramax. I went to their site, am very intrigued and am considering
ordering a kit (I live in southern USA, Alabama).  Would you use this for
looping?  Good luck!  

        Grover

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 21:06:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Andre LaFosse <altruist@shoko.calarts.edu>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, pmurphy@gibson.com, kpaul@gibson.com
Subject: Re: The ongoing saga of Oberheim
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.91.971029183136.24617A-100000@shoko.calarts.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, Tom Spaulding wrote:

> Well Andre, thanks for the public flogging. 

First off I have to say that I really have been attempting to maintain a
level of civility throughout this.  Even in my posts from last night, I
made a very concerted effort to not be unjustly rude or callous.  Tom, 
you yourself thanked me for being polite to you when I first contacted 
you, and mentioned that you doubted you could have contucted yourself as 
calmly had you been in my position.  I have attempted to maintain that 
degree of civility throughout, and in reassessing my posts from last 
night, I see considerable potential for flaming, negativity, and insult, 
which I have not and do not wish to instigate.
 
I do think that I'm entitled to being somewhat distraught at the current
situation, but I have (and continue to) made every effort to prevent this
from becoming a personal issue between myself and anyone else.  I hope
that this has been understood; if not, I apologize, and I hope that it is
now. 

> As I have shared with you in
> private e-mails, I am all too well aware of the task I have been given -
> fixing Oberheim. 

And as I have told you in private e-mails, I genuinely appreciate the fact
that someone is going about trying to fix things there. However, I also
feel entitled to voicing my reaction to these efforts.  Particularly when
they seem of an ill-advised variety. 

> I 
> have admitted and apologized for all of the past 
> mistakes, untruths, lies and poor service of the past.
 
I've also told you that I don't hold you personally accountable for all 
of the problems that have arisen -- the string of misinformation from 
Oakland, for instance.

I appreciate the apologies, but what I (and presumably many others) would
prefer even more than an admission or an apology is an EXPLANATION.  Why
were things allowed to be so poorly-handled for so long at Oberheim?  Why
was the head of California operations at Oberheim not informed of the fact
that the company he was in charge of was relocating 2,000 miles away until
the day that the move occurred?  Why did I have to find out about this
relocation through someone on this list rather than from someone at
Oberheim? 

> But despite our efforts, it is apparent that
> we have erred again. 

At the very least, failing to properly attach all four of the knobs on a 
dealer-repaired unit is not the best way to instill a new plateu of 
consumer respect.

However, given the fact that you have replaced all of the internal 
electronics, yet the anomaly persists, I am presently unconvinced that you 
were in fact unable to "repair" what may in fact not even be a 
malfunction.  It is for this reason that I issued two follow-up posts 
last night, which freely admit that if you have swapped the innards of 
the unit and the same problem is there, then it is possible there is in 
fact no problem other than a system-based ideosyncrasy.  It is also 
possible, as Kim Flint pointed out, that the anomaly resides in the 
chassis of the unit rather than in the circuitry.

> I guess our latest mistake was agreeing to push your
> unit to the top of our priority list, ahead of all of the other patient
> users you feel so sorry for.

I recognize that this comment was intended in a somewhat sarcastic and
guilt-tripped light.  I don't know exactly what I find more disturbing: 
the snide tone of the comment, or the underlying implication that I was 
given unsolicited favoritism at the expense of other users.

If my unit was, as you say, "pushed to the top" of the priority list, then
I don't understand why I was given preferential treatment -- because I
subscribe to Loopers Delight and have been vocal on describing the
problems I've had?  Does that mean that people who *haven't* been as vocal
or persistent in following through on the repair work and reporting their
results, but have in fact waited longer for repair work to be completed
than I did, were pushed back in deference to one user in California with
an Internet account and a loud mouth? 

If there were units that had been waiting longer for service than mine
had, then perhaps putting my Echoplex at the top of the list was a
"mistake"  (to use your words).  If mine had the longest track record of
having been waiting without repair or work, then it deserved to be fixed
first.  If you were trying to make me feel either relieved or guilty via
your comment above, you have failed on both counts. 

> Given your position - that speaking <underline>to</underline> others =
> speaking <underline>for</underline> others - 

?!?!

I honestly have no idea where this comment comes from.  My position has 
nothing to do with "speaking to others = speaking for others."  I'm 
speaking strictly for myself, Tom.

> I believe it best to say it
> will be 3-4 months until we are fully operational. 
> We will not ship any
> Echoplex products until we are fully staffed. 

I think that this is ABSURD in the extreme, as I will elaborate on shortly.

> Good-faith quick fixes like
> installing updates will no longer be attempted. 

I won't go into detail, but I will say that anyone who had looked at the
circuit board -- and more specifically, the software -- of my unit when it
was shipped to you should have realized that installing the upgrade would
not have alleviated any problems. 

In your first post to this list, Tom, you said that you were eager to be
informed of the Echoplex in detail.  My suggestion (and I in no way mean
this sarcastically, but given your immediately preceeding reference to the
installation of the shipping version of LOOP III in my Echoplex as a
"quick fix," it seems appropriate) is the following: familiarize yourself
with the upgrade in depth.  Find out what it fixes and what it doesn't
fix.  Find out what the bugs in the original software were and then check
their status in the new upgrade.  Then, find out how many, if any, of
these problems correspond to complaints associated with incoming units
being sent in for repair. 

In this manner, you may be able to avoid administering an unnecessary
treatment for a problem, as well as avoiding needlessly sending out extra
eproms.  "Good faith" (to use your words) doesn't identify or fix
technical problems.  Understanding the function and extent of the remedies
you prescribe, however, often does. 

> I realize that this
> policy will likely further annoy our customers who have certainly
> suffered enough, but it will preclude any misunderstandings or premature
> shipments on our part.  

Tom, WHAT ON EARTH does my situation have to do with shipping new
Echoplexes and software upgrades?!?!  Why is it necessary to hold back on
shipping these items out because of ONE REPAIR JOB on another unit?!  Why
is it necessary to postpone the shipment of Loop III and *new* Echoplex
units for three or four more months due to confusion over one repair job
on a two-year old unit?!?! 

> We do not want a repeat of your scenario, so we
> will be more vigorous in our testing proceedures. The recent visit by Kim
> Flint has been invaluable to us and should speed the process along, but
> we will definitely take the side of caution from now on. Just don't
> confuse it with lethargy. My sincere apologies to all for the continued
> delays.

I'll say it again: What does "taking the side of caution" in repair work 
have to do with shipping out new Echoplexes and upgrades?!?!

A "repeat of my scenario" (your words again) will only happen if *I
personally* send *my unit* back into Oberheim.  If "taking the side of
caution" means making sure that you identify the problems in units which
are sent to you for repair, and then make sure that these problems have
been eliminated before being sent back, then I personally think that's a
step in the right direction, and I'm sorry to see that it's taken my
posting to instill this sensibility into your repair ethic. 

Tom, I in no way intend to become any sort of scapegoat for any further
delays in Oberheim releasing its product to the marketplace.  Rather than
cryptically imply that the service reports of an unknown struggling
musician will single-handedly impede for a third of a year the efforts of
a musical instrument company to release its product, why not *explain* to
us exactly what the situation is at Oberheim? 

> <bold>Message to Andre</bold>: You were given an entirely new Echoplex
> board and software. It was our intetion to fix any problem you may have
> been having by replacing your entire board. 

Thank you for making this clear.  I was uncertain as to exactly how much 
of the internal electronics had been replaced; I take it from your 
message that all of it has been.

> It was our expectation that
> any specific problems that your unit had would be fixed by replacing the
> total circuit board. 
> We were well aware of your notes on what the problem
> was, but rather than attempt to fix an old unit, we thought it would be
> best to essentially give you a new one. 

Did you actually test the unit in the first place to attempt to identify
the problem?  Did you test the unit afterwards to see if the problem was
still there?  I honestly don't think it's a flame, or a display of
negativity, or an unjustified affront to you or anyone else to suggest
that these are two fairly significant elements of any repair process. 

When I talked to Pat on the phone a week ago, he didn't seem to 
understand my reference to the problem.  He did recall that I had shipped 
the unit without any screws in the upper plate, so I presume he had some 
hands-on experience with it.

Kim has suggested that the problem may have to do with the actual chassis 
of the unit.  If the problem had been checked for before and after 
installing new circuitry, the time and expense of shipping a whole new 
circuit board could have been spared.  

> (Apparently the last batch of
> boards we received from our vendor had a mixture of pots with different
> shaft lenghths and widths. We will, of course, replace with different
> pots once we are fully operational).

Tom, please don't make a judgement about the contents of the last batch of
gear that your company recieved based upon what one user reports in his
specific unit.  And for God's sake, don't think that you have to go back
and replace all of the shafts on the units you're preparing to ship out!!! 

I determined what the problem was with the Input knob: There is a
translucent green sheath which fits along the shafts of the pots, which
holds the knobs in place.  On the Input knob, this shaft was crumpled into
the end of the knob, which prevented it from properly attaching to the
shaft.  I was able to fix this with minimal trouble once I determined what
the problem is.  The knob length on the INPUT control is now equal to that
of the OUTPUT control. 

I don't think the problem was inconsistency of shaft lengths, but rather
inconsistency of knob installation, and that as I've said, that the knob
had been improperly (I would have to use the term "carelessly") connected
to the shaft of the pot.  At the risk of beating this issue into the
ground, my dealings with this unit are the first impressions I have of the
actions of the new department at Oberheim.  And I've still got to say that
shipping a unit without making sure that each of four knobs is properly
attached is not a good route towards being taken seriously. 

> We left your check uncashed on purpose, and if my memory is correct, we
> still owe you an additional sum, for which I told you I would write you a
> personal check for if need be. Please e-mail me (publicly or privately)
> with the amount due and I will send the check. 

I sent an additional check to Pat Murphy for $45.  Under the present
circumstances, and in light of the quantity of materials which were
replaced in my unit, I have to insist that you cash that check and apply
it towards expenses which were incurred during the work which was done on
my unit, as was the original intent. 

> <bold>Message To All Echopex Users</bold>: I will keep you informed of
> the status of Oberheim and the Echoplex as the details become available.
> Forgive me for any past or future transgressions. It is my nature to try
> to help our existing users first, even as I was hired to sell to new
> ones. It is my belief that you and your Echoplex-derived music are the
> best sales team we could possibly have.

Tom (and I apologize for my error concerning your name -- no offense was 
intended), I have to say that I wouldn't be going to the lengths that I 
have been on this list if I wasn't passionately concerned about the 
future of the unit.  I want desperately to see this product succeed, and 
to be made available.  At the same time, I simply cannot sit back and 
leave circumstances such as those which have transpired go unreported.  I 
have too much respect for myself and for the other Echoplex users, past 
present and future, to try and mince words for the sake of watching out 
for the professional reputation of Oberheim.  

I understand that Oberheim is a small company.  I understand that you're
trying to do things in the fastest and most efficient way possible.  And
in spite of the problems I've had with my unit over the last 24 hours, I
still do believe that you're making deliberate, honest efforts towards
correcting things.  I also believe that some of these efforts, though
obviously generous and well-intended, are being executed somewhat
clumsily. 

In looking over this whole thread, I can't escape one recurring issue: 
COMMUNICATION.  We all appreciate your words of determination and purpose
(or perhaps I should say that I at least appreciate it, since I don't wish
to be accused once more of speaking for anyone other than myself), but I
would feel MUCH better knowing that there was some sense of in-depth,
specific information relayed.  Making your presense felt on this list is a
good first step.  But please *explain* to us what the specific problems
are, what they entail, and what we (if anything) can do to help alleviate
them. 

We've heard you say "The Echoplexes are coming!  Very soon!" for a little
while now.  What *exactly* is it about *my* situation that means that the
Echoplexes ad memory upgrades are apparently now coming no sooner than
three or four months down the road?!?! 

If anyone wishes to chastise me for apparently impeding the flow of 
product from Oberheim, they are free and welcome to do so in private or 
public.  I warn you, however, that any and all flames will recieve no 
similarly hostile response from me.

It is my sincere hope that this situation can be straightened out.  It is 
my sincere belief that, in spite of the present static and interference, 
the channels of communication and action are attempting to be cleared on 
both sides.  

--Andre

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 00:54:22 -0500
From: "future perfect" <artmusic@gte.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: The ongoing saga of Oberheim
Message-ID: <01bce4f8$454b0ce0$8dfc73cf@artmusic>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Wow, Andre, what a story. I for one, can't believe a single repair job can
hold up an entire production line, and I am an unknown musician also who
just put $  down last week for one of these new Plexes. If I have to wait 3
or 4 months, (gee, I think my layaway plan is only 2...) I'd like to know
why. And why I should wait, and not transfer that $ to something else.
what a mess-
Dave Eicheneberger

*********************************************************************
'Future Perfect' - progressive art music - visit our website at:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/8082
"Better to be present with a bad note, than absent from a good one" -Robert
Fripp

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 00:16:11 -0600
From: "Randy Jones" <ranjones@texas.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Cc: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>, <pmurphy@gibson.com>, <kpaul@gibson.com>
Subject: Re: The ongoing saga of Oberheim
Message-ID: <01bce432$26face40$21047fce@user.texas.net>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hello,

Personally I love this thread.

Maybe the whole concept of accountability will alter with specific lists
like this, with a return to the days of yesteryear when the customer was
always right, the customer came first, and quality really was "job one" and
not just a slogan.  I appreciate Andre's tale of exasperaton.  I myself have
experienced the frustration myself of spending big sums of money on shoddy
electronic gear and repair work, long delay times, inept technicians, etc.
I appreciate the time and effort Andre has taken to inform this list of the
problems with such a significant looping tool as the Echoplex.

I have owned one for a few months and love mine.  It has depth and character
that I never imagined in all my years of guitar playing.  I'm not very adept
at using it yet, but can see that it will work for me for many years.  I
like many things about it, including the solid construction, the easy
interface,  the lack of a wart, and even the long, quality cord. It simply
feels like a first rate product.

I appreciate Tom's effort and his presence on the list.  It's not an easy
job to have one's head in the public stocks for past employer
transgressions.  Keep up the communication and the quality focus.

My thanks to Andre for the information, Tom for the dedication, Kim for the
information and Matthias for the idea. Others too, I'm sure.

Back to the plex,

Randy Jones


only to find some annoying, continual irritation th
-----Original Message-----
From: Andre LaFosse <altruist@shoko.calarts.edu>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>;
pmurphy@gibson.com <pmurphy@gibson.com>; kpaul@gibson.com <kpaul@gibson.com>
Date: Wednesday, October 29, 1997 11:12 PM
Subject: Re: The ongoing saga of Oberheim


>On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, Tom Spaulding wrote:
>
>> Well Andre, thanks for the public flogging.


ETC.
>

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 00:42:08 -0800
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: EFC-7 Measurements
Message-Id: <v03102800b07df86f834e@[207.171.198.77]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 3:41 AM -0500 10/28/97, future perfect wrote:
>I was wondering if anyone with an EFC-7 footcontroller for the Plex could
>take out a ruler and give me the dimensions..I'm trying to build a
>pedalboard for my footswitches, etc and my Plex has not yet come in. I need
>to know how much room I should leave for it.

ok, just measured it:

17 3/8" wide
4" deep
2" high

kim


______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 00:55:06 -0800
From: efisch@artnet.net (Eric R. Fischer)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: I hate to do this, but...
Message-Id: <v01520d00b07de90e0be0@[207.155.25.109]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I hate to do this, but...
I know that I need to tred carefully here, so I will choose my sentiments
as thoughfully as possible..

First, let me say to Kim and Matthius thank you for an unbelievably focused
and clever piece of equipment. You have single handedly renewed my interest
in playing, and the possibilities of "guitar as orchestra".
Second, I should clarify my personal background. I am a professional,
working Recording Engineer and  Tech in Los Angeles. I am also guitarist,
guitar builder and electronic tinkerer going on 25 yrs. Please know that my
point of view does not mean I am "flaming", just observing.
Third, I have experience, in the past, working within a large
bureauracratic organization, as I am sure many people on this list do.

What I am trying to say is I have sympathy for all parties involved. But
most of all Andre. I thought about emailing him personally (we have
exchanged email in the past) but I arrogantly felt the list might want to
read this too. I have been without my Echoplex for about 8 months total of
the 3yrs I have owned it. The first round was thermal problems fixed gratis
at the factory in NoCal. A month and a half down. After I got it back I
performed the resistor change outs detailed on the web page in an effort to
bring down the noise floor(a software noisegate!?!?). This was a help. The
second bout was an ongoing distortion in the recorded program material.
Dean Fouts recommended an authorized repair shop in LA to fix this, to save
the time & hassle of sending it to the factory. These guys turned out to
very slow & took forever to get the documentation from Oberheim. They
didn't pursue it at all, & I had to badger the factory to get the
schematics to this shop!! Turned out to be the output IC's(no relation to
the mod). Another 4 months and $200.00 lost. I was out of town on biz right
after I got it back this time, and also in the process of finishing my rig,
so I didn't use it for a bit. When I finished my rig & fired it up, guess
what? No output from the Echoplex at all!!! Back to the shop in LA since I
figured it might be related. after 2 months and no phone call from these
guys, they give up and sent it to Oberheim without even telling me. Right
around this time Andre started his posts. So as you can understand, I'm
dissapointed. I am going to have to get something to replace my
Echoplex(probobly a PCM80-yikes!).

So let me make a few points here. This is a CONSUMER piece of gear. It is
very cheaply powered, with a flimsey chassis, and a -10db input/output
section, with unbalanced 1/4 jacks. this means from a gain stage point of
view it is relativly incompatible with the gear in my rack, and any gear in
any pro studio. Kim has stated in the past he didn't want the price to
exclude potential consumers from buying this product. Understood, but it
relagates this to being a CONSUMER piece of gear. It exhibits all the
problems of consumer gear. I personally own pro gear that has never broken
down, and the studios I work at depend on pro gear to work consistantly and
for long periods of time. We have outboard gear that stays on for months at
a time, year after year with NO problems. What I'm trying to say is that I
shouldn't expect the Echoplex to be what it is not. The big problem is that
not many pieces of gear come close to doing what the Echoplex does!!!

I am trying to finish my record, and another artist's CD that I am
producing, engineering and playing on. Being without my echoplex has been a
huge pain, and I can wait no longer to get mine back. God forbid I should
want an upgrade! That will be another couple of months I guess. So Andre's
experiences are not isolated. I don't blame anyone in particular for this
nonsense. Dean Fouts has been trully helpful. Chalk it up to
Oberheim/Gibson's bureaucracy and a product that didn't meet my
expectations. Lesson learned on my part.
I apologize for any hurt feelings or for not being cheery, but in
professional situations this kind of track record sinks products. I'd hate
to see that happen to the Echoplex.
Eric R. Fischer

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 12:16:11 +0100
From: Haible Juergen <Juergen.Haible@nbgm.siemens.de>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: AW: The ongoing saga of Oberheim
Message-ID: <1BF5E20E0C4DD111BBAB00805FE2D5820617B0@nbgm336a.nbgm.siemens.de>
Content-Type: text/plain

I considered buying one of these, but I was told that they are currently
not available in Germany. One shop said they aren't built anymore,
another one said they had problems with the European CE (EMC)
regulations.
Then I considered finding a used one, but now ... I hesitate.

I don't think these repair stories are specific for one manufacturer
(sounds
similar as the repair story of my car hifi and of my portable DAT, for
example.),
so this saga doesn't surprise me at all.

But this generally makes me think about buying murical gear that is
based
around software, i.e. you are dependent on service by authorized people.
I prefer units which I can repair myself.
Maybe I'll just put extra RAM chips into my Delta Lab Effectron. Or wait
for
this new EH delay. (Hope they'll just use larger RAM chips, and not
redesign
the control circuitry !)
What do you think?

JH.

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 14:25:13 +0000
From: malhomme <malhomme@infobiogen.fr>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re:Robby Aceto
Message-ID: <34589886.71CF@infobiogen.fr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I saw this written the past day:
>I'll be looping guitar with *Alice* alongside Mick Karn and Steve Jansen in
>Italy and Germany in ear;y November for any of you interested in looping as
>an element in "pop" music...
>cool stuff.
>
>be cool,
>Robby Aceto

The question I'd like raise is wether we can expect a tour in some way
with the songs we discovered with your album.
Another one would be, is there a second one to expect soon? Quite soon
then?
I hope you won't release an album every 12 years like some great singer
we know. Ok, the conditions compares in nothing. 
Anything?
Olivier Malhomme

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:02:23
From: "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." <pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: It's away!
Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19971030180223.348fa65c@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I just posted the RAM about an hour ago.

Hopefully it should be with you in about 4-5 days!

Michael

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Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:04:26
From: "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." <pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: It's away!
Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19971030180426.348fd19e@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I just said:
>I just posted the RAM about an hour ago.
>Hopefully it should be with you in about 4-5 days!
>Michael

Sorry  - that should have gone to Leo Cavallo only.
Eudora.  Love it or hate it,
I can't understand it.

Michael

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