------------------------------
Loopers-Delight-d Digest				Volume 97 : Issue 188

Today's Topics:
  Re: where can I buy a jamman          [ crimson <Crimson@aznet.net> ]
  Re: where can I buy a jamman          [ klaw@iglou.com ]
  LoOpDoctOrs, WE WILL...WE WILL...LoO  [ Fmplautus@aol.com ]
  PROJECT LO....little revue            [ andre <andre@monmouth.com> ]
  Questions and techniques              [ "Rupolo, Thomas" <RUPOLOT@BDD.com>  ]
  RE: Philadelphia Loop Show 1998       [ Jonathan Brainin <jbrainin@interact ]
  RE: Philadelphia Loop Show 1998       [ Jonathan Brainin <jbrainin@interact ]
  RE: Philadelphia Loop Show 1998       [ Floyd Miller <floyd@voicenet.com> ]
  Unidentified subject!                 [ Bopster <boppo@dlc.fi> ]
  Re: Unidentified subject!             [ Dpcoffin@aol.com ]
  Re: Unidentified subject!             [ PJBMHB@aol.com ]
  Re:boomerang                          [ djdowling@earthlink.net ]
  Re: Questions and techniques          [ "nicomonguzzi" <nicomonguzzi@vtx.ch ]
  Re: Jam Man: sell or trade            [ DENNIS PISKO <pisko@ix.netcom.com> ]
  Closing the loop                      [ Andre LaFosse <altruist@shoko.calar ]

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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 23:00:08 -0800
From: crimson <Crimson@aznet.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: where can I buy a jamman
Message-ID: <345AD378.7B33@aznet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

You're an idiot

------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 02:26:38 -0500
From: klaw@iglou.com
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: where can I buy a jamman
Message-Id: <v03007800b080ecdb1f2a@[204.255.239.97]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>i just bought that one......psyche! =-p PJ

Really?! Oh maan get out of my mind.....

------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 04:10:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Fmplautus@aol.com
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: LoOpDoctOrs, WE WILL...WE WILL...LoOP YOU...tour...
Message-ID: <971101033914_-1577009341@mrin39>

...commences Saturday, November 1st, 1997 at Evo's Coffee House in Ashland,
Oregon.  (Across from the Library.)

We hope the entire list comes.  Coffee is pretty good there. 

Best,
The LoOpDoctOrs

------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 13:25:16 -0500 (EST)
From: andre <andre@monmouth.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: PROJECT LO....little revue
Message-Id: <199711011825.NAA16100@shell.monmouth.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

hey Peter, and all
..> 
>> PROJECT LO/ CARYN LIN
>> Thur Oct 30 1997
>>
>Andre, how was the show?  I CAN'T WAIT 'til this crew makes
>it to the Boston area on 13 November.  

it was great !!!! a small, smoke free venue, comfortable, high ceilinged
with good acoustics... A nice long set - material from Caryn's new CD, as
well as the new Project Lo /Black Canvas - (which was available at the show
for a great price!, along with Caryn's and other Bon & Geno White CD's)

Two guitars incl. Bon and Jim Fogarty..sorry I can't recall the dummer or
bassists names (!) and of course Caryn. She had that cool violin that looks
like the Queensryche logo...thru a jam man and a bunch of pedals - 2 boss
delays, a rarely seen ibanez modulation delay, etc. the 2 guitarists also
had jamman/vortex combos, with assorted other stuff, ebows, etc... Bon hit a
Parker Fly and an Ibanez(?) acoustic

Music was very nice, textural, tribal drums with lush layers being set up by
Bon & Caryn, Jim Fogarty had a cool twangy tele sound - picked out some tasy
licks, lotsa cool tremelo tones..a couple of cool trademark legato Lozaga
solos...

One vocal tune, one little solo loopage treat by Caryn... with impossible
violin harmonics technique of course...

well - don't wanna spoil any more surprises - GO to the show!! it's modern
tribal loopy jazz spaciness with TEETH!

peace,andre'>

------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 12:12:52 -0800
From: "Rupolo, Thomas" <RUPOLOT@BDD.com> (by way of Kim Flint)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Questions and techniques
Message-Id: <v03102800b0813d5449fc@[207.171.198.54]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I+m writing with two questions for the list, one is somewhat specific
and one is a bit more general.  Lastly, I was asked to share some of my
other techniques to hopefully inspire fellow loopers.  I+m about to lose
my access to email for a while so I want to get this out while I+m still
hooked up.

First for the general question:

1) How many loopers save their loops and how?  This would have been a
good question for the survey a number of weeks back, but I just thought
of it now.   I use a plain ol+ cassette deck, but I wonder how many of
you use DAT+s, a sampler, or some other digital storage device like a
zip drive (if that+s even possible.)  I'm thinking about getting a DAT
but wondering if I should shell out $700-800 without considering
alternatives.

2)  I was wondering how many people have used these somewhat inexpensive
"phrase samplers" that are showing up on the market like crazy these
days.  I+m talking about the Akai Remix 16, MPC2000, and S-20, Boss
SP-202, Yamaha SL-10, Ensoniq ASR-X (this one is not so inexpensive,
actually), and/or Roland MS-1.  I+ve only seen an few of these and
getting Sam Ash in NYC to actually demo one of these things for me is
like asking for the salesman+s first born child.

I use an Echoplex in a number of very different ways.  I often like to
create an ambient loop but eventually want to add a drum/rhythmic part
with a different time length (usually shorter).  The original loop will
not conform to the new rhythm so I will probably end up buying another
unit.  I+d like the rhythmic part to hopefully but not necessarily sync
up to the +plex.

Has anyone ever used any of things and found them as easy to work with
as the +plex?  Do any of them overdub?


So without giving away any secrets (I don+t have any anyway) here are a
couple of my other techniques:

For DJ type purposes I use the Echoplex (expanded to 130 sec. of memory)
to sample other artist+s CD+s.  I have been "remixing"   material from
Massive Attack, Beck, Olive, etc.  I totally change the structure of the
songs, and often overdub subtle touches like extra drums, elec. piano
parts, or Sitar samples.  I work very quickly, and its fun to "play god"
and choose when the next section will come around.  If you like a
particular drum break you can cut to it every other measure if you want.

For my original works I use the +plex to build my basic loop (which
occasionally start with a sample of  some sort - but that is less often
that not.)  I then copy to other loops and build them adding bass lines,
multiple keyboard overdubs, guitar, drums (from my R-70 drum machine
played live into the machine - no more static drum machine programming -
hooray!)  I then create new loops for transitions, a "Chorus" - not
necessarily a strict Chorus, mind you.  I tell you I+ve never had more
fun with my bass than experimenting with multiple variations of a bass
line.  The hardest part is deciding which one to ultimately use.

Once all nine loops are filled I record straight to a cassette, usually
improvising a few parts in the process. - a synth or organ lead, more
samples, even some spoken word parts from a video cassette.  If someone
comes by who can actually sing, they+ll sing live as I record.  This way
the end result seems less like a succession of loops, and more like a
finished song..  There is something thrilling about playing while the
red light is on.  If I make a *mistake* there+s always the rewind
button.  Despite the trade-offs of working this way, I find this method
MUCH faster and more satisfying than  using a multi- track recorder.

I apologize for boring anyone who already works using similar methods.
In the interest of spreading some new ideas around it is my hope that
everyone get as much out of this very powerful machine as possible.

Tom Rupolo
"The Trance Lounge King"
Rupolot@bdd.com ('till 11/7)

------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 20:22:21 -0500
From: Jonathan Brainin <jbrainin@interactive.net>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: Philadelphia Loop Show 1998
Message-ID: <01BCE703.DCFFC8C0@jbrainin@interactive.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi there.  I think I'd like to take a shot at performing this
time around.  Probably would use both my Parker Fly w/
GK2a and my newly acquired (used) 8 string Warr guitar.

Check out my profile for the balance of the gear.  As far
as musical direction is concerned, who knows where things
might go in the next 4 or 5 months.

Jonathan Brainin
jbrainin@interactive.net

------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 20:24:58 -0500
From: Jonathan Brainin <jbrainin@interactive.net>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: Philadelphia Loop Show 1998
Message-ID: <01BCE704.3B9C0F60@jbrainin@interactive.net>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCE704.3BA53720"


OOPS!  That was supposed to be a private post.
I hate reply-to address brain fade.
 
Jonathan Brainin
jbrainin@interactive.net
> 
> 
> 
> On Saturday, November 01, 1997 8:22 PM, Jonathan Brainin
> [SMTP:jbrainin@interactive.net] wrote:
> > Hi there.  I think I'd like to take a shot at performing this
> > time around.  Probably would use both my Parker Fly w/
> > GK2a and my newly acquired (used) 8 string Warr guitar.
> > 
> > Check out my profile for the balance of the gear.  As far
> > as musical direction is concerned, who knows where things
> > might go in the next 4 or 5 months.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 23:01:18 -0500
From: Floyd Miller <floyd@voicenet.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: RE: Philadelphia Loop Show 1998
Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19971101230118.007c3340@popmail.voicenet.com>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_878461278==_"

At 08:24 PM 11/1/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>OOPS!  That was supposed to be a private post.
>I hate reply-to address brain fade.
> 
>Attachment Converted: "C:\INTERNET\EUDORA\ATTACH\RE Philadelphia Loop Show
1998"
>
And what was that attchement all about?   Are you using some sort
of microsoft email program?


Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="RE Philadelphia Loop Show 1998"
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="RE Philadelphia Loop Show 1998"

Attachment converted: Macintosh HD:RE Philadelphia Loop Show 199 1 (????/----) (000203A3)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 15:32:28 +0100
From: Bopster <boppo@dlc.fi>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Unidentified subject!
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971102153228.006c4e68@mail.dlc.fi>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Loopers, friends, fellows!

I've been a lurker on this list for 'bout a month now and to convince
myself that I'm not a *complete* nerd I decided that I had to contribute
something.

So here goes:

The reason i originally joined in on this digest was to learn something
about looping, anything about looping. when I subscribed last month, I knew
nothing more than what the word implied and that it was used by Mr Fripp in
several records, including the much loved "That which passes".

Being somewhat of a musician (vocalist and emergency keyboardist in a rock
band currently going weird, much to my amusement), I decided I had to learn
how to do this cool thing that I didn't know anything about. So, I read
about tape loops, digital loops, and so on. After I thought I had an idea
abou this looping business I went and tested a zoom 508, and was convinced
that it is an enchanted pedal. The testing was made with pops, smacks and
other weird noises you make with your mouth that were made into a rhytmic
loop, three tones (the C-major chord) and, over that a finnish Kalevala
chant (which was not looped).
But, alas, 4 seconds is not enough! What couldn't I do with 8 or even 16!!!

So, here is my dilemma: Where to get an 8/16 sec looping device fairly
cheaply (under $500 [=2500 FIM])?

Being a student, a trip out of scandinavia is quite out of the question.
Mail order perhaps? What I want is nothing overly fancy, it would be nice
to be able to store a couple of loops on the device, perhaps reversing
them, perhaps even something extra nice 'n cool.
So, please tell me (I think by private email, this discussion probably
doesn't dazzle any of the more experienced loopers with either originality
or relevance), what device would suit me that's available either in Finland
or by mail order.

Thank you very much for making music relevant,
John Soderholm (boppo@dlc.fi)

P.S. If anybody happens to see a band called pHosDIc having a gig somewhere
please come in and enjoy yourself.

------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 10:19:55 -0500 (EST)
From: Dpcoffin@aol.com
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re:  Unidentified subject!
Message-ID: <971102101909_-1258451572@emout08.mail.aol.com>

To John Soderholm:

<<So, please tell me  what device would suit me that's available either in
Finland
or by mail order.>>

Besides the newly available 8-Sec-delay (w/4-sec. reverse)  DOD FX-98
(+/-US$100), with which I plan to replace MY Zoom 508--since as a vocalist
you're not typically using both hands to play into the looper, I'd suggest
you look seriously at the new Boss Dr. Sample SP-202, (+/-US$320), which can
be expanded to phrase-sample into the minute range, and has real-time filters
and ring modulation, pitch adjust, beat adjust, sample editing, sample
storage on SmartMedia cards...looks very powerful, fun, and not very
expensive.
dpc

------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 10:28:31 -0500 (EST)
From: PJBMHB@aol.com
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Unidentified subject!
Message-ID: <971102102646_2058542812@emout07.mail.aol.com>

i would keep the zoom 508. i love mine. i love that you can tap the delay
time. i love the 4 second sampler. i love that you can program it just like a
rack unit. this baby is awesome!! =-) PJ
p.s. sorry for being so silly a couple days ago. 

------------------------------
Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 11:38:51 -0500
From: djdowling@earthlink.net
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re:boomerang
Message-ID: <345CAC9B.5DDC@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

A few weeks ago Trey Gunn from King Crimson sent a list of gear for sale
to some of us from the Elephant Talk newsletter, included was the
boomerang.
My phome line was down for two days and by the time I responded to him
he had sold it "yesterday".
I have been kicking myself (and Bell Atlantic) since.
Anybody out there have a Boomerang (4 mbyte) they want to part with for
less than retail price?
Dave

------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 19:21:06 +0100
From: "nicomonguzzi" <nicomonguzzi@vtx.ch>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Questions and techniques
Message-Id: <l03102800b08272be7ad8@[194.235.13.66]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

hello, i use to "save" some material to loop on a MiniDisc. I think
MiniDisc are good because they're fast acces and you can edit the different
tracks, and are less expensive than samplers (obviously with a sampler you
can make a millions more things, but that it's another history...).
I also use MiniDisc to have fast access to material that i recorded from
CDs, with the repeat function on MiniDisc you can make a sort of
not-enough-precise-but-not-too-bad loop. I use this to sample (with
Jamman), hearing a sort of loop from MiniDisc facilitate me the task to
sample short sounds or phrases.

have a nice loop.

ciao, nicos


>I+m writing with two questions for the list, one is somewhat specific
>and one is a bit more general.  Lastly, I was asked to share some of my
>other techniques to hopefully inspire fellow loopers.  I+m about to lose
>my access to email for a while so I want to get this out while I+m still
>hooked up.
>
>First for the general question:
>
>1) How many loopers save their loops and how?  This would have been a
>good question for the survey a number of weeks back, but I just thought
>of it now.   I use a plain ol+ cassette deck, but I wonder how many of
>you use DAT+s, a sampler, or some other digital storage device like a
>zip drive (if that+s even possible.)  I'm thinking about getting a DAT
>but wondering if I should shell out $700-800 without considering
>alternatives.
>

------------------------------
Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 14:48:40 -0500
From: DENNIS PISKO <pisko@ix.netcom.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Jam Man:  sell or trade
Message-ID: <345CD918.5B5E@ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Tom Lambrecht wrote:
> 
> At 12:38 PM 10/23/97 -0500, you wrote:
> >I have a pristine Jam Man with 32 second upgrade that is gathering dust and
> would be put to much better use by somebody else.  I am most interested in
> trading it for a midi sound module that would work nicely with a midi guitar
> controller (Shadow 075).  I do not know what a reasonable selling price
> would be, so I could use some feedback on that as well.
> >
> >Thanks
> >
> 
> Greg
> 
> I' m  seriously interested in the Jamman--please let me know how we can
> handle shipping and payment (COD UPS okay?) I dont have anything to swap,
> but would pay cash $ 250 to $300, depending on condition and manuals being
> there.
> 
> thanks, Tom
> Tom Lambrecht  hideo@concentric.net
If the price is right I would be intrested.
I don't rember what I saw them for new I think it was about $300-$350.
Do you have the book and or controler?

------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 12:50:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Andre LaFosse <altruist@shoko.calarts.edu>
To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Closing the loop
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.91.971102121603.3829A-100000@shoko.calarts.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Hello all --

Some thoughts I'd like to make here...

As I posted previously a couple of days ago, in reviewing the information
I provided for Oberheim, I detected some serious inaccuracies and
inconsistencies in the information I provided them for trying to detect
the anomaly in my unit.  I don't know how much this contributed to the
delay I recieved in getting my unit back, and at this point I doubt I ever
will.  What I am doing is choosing to return the other check, which was
originally sent to Gibson (and subsequently sent back to me), back to
Oberheim in the interest of trying to make reparations for the confusion
which has ensued and help realize the expenses incurred in their efforts
to help me.  If anyone at Oberheim feels any other steps should be taken,
I'll happily speak to them in private or public about it, and I certainly
apologize for any contributions to the current confusion which I may have
made. 

Since at least some of the confusion with my situation could very likely
have stemmed from my lack of clarity, it seems to me at this point that it
would be unfair to use my particular case as a litmus test for Oberheim's
current state of organization and customer service (though it must be
admitted that strictly from an intention point of view, Tom and Pat were
definitely on the right track).  I do get the impression that the company
is presently in very good hands. 

The noise anomaly has been tracked down and explained.  I lack the
necessary technical skills or expertise to do so, but it will shortly be
made available; owing to the fact I've never heard anyone else notice it
or complain about it, it's fair to say it's minor enough to not warrant a
problem for anyone else.  If nothing else, I must thank Oberheim for being
able to eliminate the possibility of its being a circuitry problem as a
result of their swapping all of the internal electronics. 

As one of the very few people who has thus far been priveleged enough 
to use the upgrade, I can report that it's a very welcome addition to the 
Echoplex.  The whole thing seems to run a little bit more smoothly, and 
some of the minor bugs which had been annoying in the past are happily 
absent from the current software.  Anyone who has any interest in looping 
(including anybody on this list) owes it to themselves to investigate the 
Echoplex, especially in its newer, sleeker format.

One thing that's been driven home to me over the last week is the fact
that what we do, and the companies which help produce the tools which make
what we do possible to a large extent, all exists on a significantly
smaller scale than what one might initially presume.  This isn't
big-business corporate commerce -- it's fringe technology and creativity,
being fostered by both musicians and manufacturers who often are not that
far away from being unable to continue their efforts in this realm. 

Whether we like it or not, I've come to the conclusion that those of us on
this list (and, in a more general sense, those of us within this musical
and creative community, both on-line and elsewhere) have a certain
responsibilityto and for one another.  Without customer support, the
products can't continue to be made or distributed; without company
support, consumers and professionals will find themselves frightened at
the prospect of getting into the game.  In an on-line forum, these
relationships tend to be magnified and intensified far beyond where they
might go in the real world, and this has the potential for abuse.  I've
been guilty of that in the recent past, and I apologize for that.  Other
people have as well, and they have in general admitted as such. 

This is a pivotal time for Oberheim -- they're under new management, and 
preparing to ship a version of a new product which customers have been 
anxiously awaiting for at least two years.  I certainly hope that my 
comments have not swayed anyone from considering investigation into the 
Echoplex, and I will reiterate that the unit is in a class all its own in 
terms of the depth and breadth of what it can do.  Take what's said in 
this forum for what it's worth, but ultimately, track down one of the 
units and see for yourself what it can do.  

My thanks for Oberheim for their efforts in the past and present, and my 
wishes for ongoing success and longevity.

--Andre

--------------------------------