------------------------------
Loopers-Delight-d Digest				Volume 97 : Issue 191

Today's Topics:
  Re: Guitar rig advice wanted          [ Kim Flint <kflint@chromatic.com> ]
  Re: Guitar rig advice wanted          [ floyd@voicenet.com ]
  Re: Guitar rig advice wanted          [ Dave Stagner <dstagner@icarus.net> ]
  Re: Guitar rig advice wanted          [ Dave Stagner <dstagner@icarus.net> ]
  Re: Guitar rig advice wanted          [ Kim Flint <kflint@chromatic.com> ]
  Using Mod Wheel as a Volume Control   [ "G. Peterson" <rainham@connection.c ]
  RE: Guitar rig advice wanted          [ Jonathan Brainin <jbrainin@interact ]
  Re: Jamman vs Echoplex: who wins?     [ PMimlitsch@aol.com ]
  The Orb...                            [ Squidlyguy@aol.com ]
  Re: The Orb...                        [ "paul.davies" <paul.davies@bbsrc.ac ]
  Re: Guitar rig advice wanted          [ Len Seligman <seligman@mitre.org> ]
  Re: Guitar rig advice wanted          [ Floyd Miller <floyd@voicenet.com> ]
  Re: Guitar rig advice wanted          [ Erik Ljones <eriklj@stud.ntnu.no> ]
  Digitech RDS 800                      [ Roland Eberle <roland@ccnet.com> ]
  Re: Digitech RDS 800                  [ "Stephen P. Goodman" <sgoodman@eart ]
  Looping with a sampler                [ "Robert S. Carter" <rsc4@hhmi.upenn ]
  Re: Looping with a sampler            [ Kim Flint <kflint@chromatic.com> ]
  Re: JamMan Wanted                     [ Phil Diem <pdiem@edcen.ehhs.cmich.e ]
  Gig in Baltimore Saturday night       [ Adam Levin <alevin@ari.net> ]
  Re: Guitar rig advice wanted          [ "Mikell D. Nelson" <mnelson@dmans.c ]
  Re: Digitech RDS 800                  [ PainPete@aol.com ]
  Re: The Orb...                        [ improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) ]
  Re: Digitech RDS 800                  [ miguel.barella@poyry.com.br (MAT) ]
  Re: Guitar rig advice wanted          [ TritoneDW@aol.com ]
  Lexicon looping gear for sale in LA   [ Andre LaFosse <altruist@shoko.calar ]

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kflint@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 13:50:53 -0800
From: Kim Flint <kflint@chromatic.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Guitar rig advice wanted
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19971105215053.009bdaa0@pop.chromatic.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I'd say, keep using the fender amp for the guitar, disconnect the speaker,
and run the speaker outputs to a THD Hotplate. The THD provides a
speaker-like load for the amp so it still sounds and works right, and
outputs a line level signal which you can run to your mixer, which goes to
the looper, and then to the PA. That should keep your guitar sound
reasonably close to what you have, while still giving you a full PA for the
other stuff.

Another idea is to get some sort of rack mount guitar preamp and run it into
an ADA Ampulator, which seems to be the best thing for simulating tube power
amps. Then you have a good sounding line level signal, which should play
nice with the other stuff.

You're on the right track, guitar amps don't really cut it for looping. The
other half of it is when you have a loop running through the guitar amp, it
interferes with any additional guitar and hurts the direct tone. 

kim 

At 04:26 PM 11/5/97 -0500, Len Seligman wrote:
>I'm thinking putting an electric guitar and miscellaneous other things
>(guitar synth, mandolin with a transducer pickup, vocal mike) through a
>mixer, an Echoplex, and then on to a PA board. Question: is there any way
>to do this and have the electric guitar sound good? Currently, I have a '62
>Strat that I play through an all tube Fender Hod Rod Deluxe and it sounds
>*great*. I play it with only a trace of distortion, and I love the sound.
>Is there any way to get anything remotely close without using a guitar amp?
>(I once used a SansAmp for recording purposes, and I thought the sound was
>bad compared to miking the guitar amp.)
>
>If not, then I fear the only thing I'll be able to loop will be my guitar,
>or else I'll have to send the other stuff through the guitar amp, which is
>not known for great sound for anything but a guitar. (I can't afford two
>Echoplexes for just me.)
>
>Thanks for any ideas you might have.
>
>-Len
>
> 
>
>
>
________________________________________________________
Kim Flint		       408-752-9284
Mpact System Engineering       kflint@chromatic.com
Chromatic Research             http://www.chromatic.com

------------------------------
Date: 5 Nov 1997 22:10:24 -0000
From: floyd@voicenet.com
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re:  Guitar rig advice wanted
Message-ID: <19971105221024.8534.qmail@omni1.voicenet.com>

  What model SansAmp did you try?

  I have a rack-mount PSA-1 SansAmp and I love it.
  I found miking and Amp such a hassle and really was not happy
  with the results.  Maybe after a year and a half I've forgotten
  what the sound of a real amp is like but.... I'm happy with the
  PSA-1.  Perhaps it depends on the kind of sound you're expecting.

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 16:13:22 -0600 (CST)
From: Dave Stagner <dstagner@icarus.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Guitar rig advice wanted
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.971105160458.30522A-100000@icarus.icarus.net>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

You could try making a "line out" for the guitar amp.  It won't capture
the sound of the speaker, but it should get the basic flavor of the amp,
at least (it also won't silence the speaker, if that matters to you).  

Get a little project box.  It needs on 1/4" jack going in, and two 1/4"
jacks going out.  The input jack should be connected to the regular
speaker jack on your amp (use the same grade of wire for this that you
would for speakers!).  For the two output jacks, wire them in parallel.
Put a 1000 ohm 5 watt resistor in series with one of the jacks.  This is
the line out.  You should be able to plug it directly into mixers,
effects, etc.  Make sure the speaker is plugged into the other jack!  It
is bad for tube amps to not receive a proper load.  

This circuit should have negligible effect on the sound of your amp and
speaker, and require no internal modifications that might hurt the value
of your vintage amp.  It also gets all the sound of the amp/speaker
interaction and the power tubes, which is what makes classic amps sound so
great.  It won't get the last bit of "air" from the actual cone, but it's
close.  It'll cost you about ten bucks in parts at Radio Shack, and a
little bit of time with a soldering iron, and requires almost NO
electronics knowledge!  

Try it and see.

-dave

By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete.
Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. 
Venus De Milo.
To a child she is ugly.       /* dstagner@icarus.net */
   -Charles Fort              

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 16:18:44 -0600 (CST)
From: Dave Stagner <dstagner@icarus.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Guitar rig advice wanted
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.971105161402.30522B-100000@icarus.icarus.net>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Wed, 5 Nov 1997, Kim Flint wrote:

> I'd say, keep using the fender amp for the guitar, disconnect the speaker,
> and run the speaker outputs to a THD Hotplate. The THD provides a
> speaker-like load for the amp so it still sounds and works right, and
> outputs a line level signal which you can run to your mixer, which goes to
> the looper, and then to the PA. That should keep your guitar sound
> reasonably close to what you have, while still giving you a full PA for the
> other stuff.

Kim's solution is better.  Mine is cheaper.  :}  The Marshall Powerbrake
works well, too, as do some other products.  Those are best if you don't
want to hear the original speaker at all, which may well be true for
looping.  
 
> You're on the right track, guitar amps don't really cut it for looping. The
> other half of it is when you have a loop running through the guitar amp, it
> interferes with any additional guitar and hurts the direct tone. 

That's the nice thing about both solutions offered... neither one uses a
guitar effects loop, which usually doesn't sound taht great.  Both can go
straight to stereo power amps, mixers, etc.  

You can try my solution along with a big 8 ohm non-inductive resistor for
a speaker load, but it won't sound much like a real speaker.  Speakers are
inductive, capacitative, and generate back EMF which influences the sound
of the amp itself.  :(  
 
-dave

By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete.
Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. 
Venus De Milo.
To a child she is ugly.       /* dstagner@icarus.net */
   -Charles Fort              

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 15:33:13 -0800
From: Kim Flint <kflint@chromatic.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Guitar rig advice wanted
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19971105233313.00924620@pop.chromatic.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Another trick along this same line is to remove the paper cone from the
speaker. It still loads the amp pretty much the same, but it doesn't make
any sound. Then with Dave's little line out box, you're set. Of course, you
might want to do this with a second speaker before you destroy the one you have.

also, with the line out box, I think you want two resistors to make a
voltage divider. the second one would go after the series R and connect to
ground. Just one resistor in series with the jack could still give you a
pretty large voltage swing, likely to clip in a line level circuit. The
value of the second R would set the level of the line signal, so that will
probably depend on the amp. You might even use a pot.

kim

At 04:13 PM 11/5/97 -0600, Dave Stagner wrote:
>You could try making a "line out" for the guitar amp.  It won't capture
>the sound of the speaker, but it should get the basic flavor of the amp,
>at least (it also won't silence the speaker, if that matters to you).  
>
>Get a little project box.  It needs on 1/4" jack going in, and two 1/4"
>jacks going out.  The input jack should be connected to the regular
>speaker jack on your amp (use the same grade of wire for this that you
>would for speakers!).  For the two output jacks, wire them in parallel.
>Put a 1000 ohm 5 watt resistor in series with one of the jacks.  This is
>the line out.  You should be able to plug it directly into mixers,
>effects, etc.  Make sure the speaker is plugged into the other jack!  It
>is bad for tube amps to not receive a proper load.  
>
>This circuit should have negligible effect on the sound of your amp and
>speaker, and require no internal modifications that might hurt the value
>of your vintage amp.  It also gets all the sound of the amp/speaker
>interaction and the power tubes, which is what makes classic amps sound so
>great.  It won't get the last bit of "air" from the actual cone, but it's
>close.  It'll cost you about ten bucks in parts at Radio Shack, and a
>little bit of time with a soldering iron, and requires almost NO
>electronics knowledge!  
>
>Try it and see.
>
>-dave
>
>By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete.
>Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. 
>Venus De Milo.
>To a child she is ugly.       /* dstagner@icarus.net */
>   -Charles Fort              
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________
Kim Flint		       408-752-9284
Mpact System Engineering       kflint@chromatic.com
Chromatic Research             http://www.chromatic.com

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 19:17:17 -0500
From: "G. Peterson" <rainham@connection.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Using Mod Wheel as a Volume Control
message-id: TCPSMTP_GEN.12376.16222@204.138.111.66
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi all, I have a question directed to the keyboard loopers out there.
I have an old midi synth I am using.  Just about everything is midi capable
except the volume slider.  I am creating and editing my performance loops
on Performer 3.6 running on an old mac se.
Is there a simple way I can select something in the performer sequencer
that will allow me to play live volume moves into the sequencer while I am
tracking/recording?

Cheers and thanks,

Gordon

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 18:20:06 -0500
From: Jonathan Brainin <jbrainin@interactive.net>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: Guitar rig advice wanted
Message-ID: <01BCEA23.789C5EC0@jbrainin@interactive.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On Wednesday, November 05, 1997 4:26 PM, Len Seligman 
[SMTP:seligman@mitre.org] wrote:

> is there anyway to do this and have the electric guitar sound good?
> Currently, I have a '62 Strat that I play through an all tube Fender 
Hod
> Rod Deluxe and it sounds *great*. I play it with only a trace of 
distortion,
> and I love the sound.  Is there any way to get anything remotely 
close
> without using a guitar amp?

Try either a Roland GP-100 or a Boss Gx-700.  They should
be easily bought for between $500-700.

Jonathan Brainin
jbrainin@interactive.net

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 23:38:53 -0500 (EST)
From: PMimlitsch@aol.com
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re:  Jamman vs Echoplex: who wins?
Message-ID: <971105180725_1624380565@emout07.mail.aol.com>

In a message dated 11/4/97 1:09:36 PM, you wrote:

<<i discovered a lot of cool things i can't do
with my Jamman, so here's the questions:
Which is the best ?>>

Neither. The musician makes the tools the tools don't make the musician.

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 01:55:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Squidlyguy@aol.com
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: The Orb...
Message-ID: <971106015520_1547703543@mrin45.mail.aol.com>

Hey guys, I'm really into Torn, Fripp, Abercrombie, Frisell, Eno, etc.  I've
heard about The Orb, but don't know what they're like.  Kinda like Ozric
Tentacles meets Eno, maybe?!  Who else might anyone recommend to satiate my
desire for tasteful looping (I can't find a copy of Polytown anywhere!!!).
 Thanks for any help...


Brian

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 97 13:02:13 +0000
From: "paul.davies" <paul.davies@bbsrc.ac.uk>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: The Orb...
Message-Id: <971106130213.701@pserv.avri.bbsrc.ac.uk.0>
Content-Return: allowed

 Future Sound of London?

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 1997 08:22:41 -0500
From: Len Seligman <seligman@mitre.org>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re:  Guitar rig advice wanted
Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19971106082241.0071e0cc@dharma.mitre.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:10 PM 11/5/97 -0000, floyd@voicenet.com wrote:
>  What model SansAmp did you try?

It was one of the little SansAmp boxes, not the rack mounted one. Maybe
I'll check out the PSA-1. Also, how does that compare to some of the tube
pre-amps that have bunches of effects too (e.g., from Rocktron, Peavey,
etc.)? ART also makes a little 1/2 rack space tube pre-amp for only about
$100. Has anyone tried that?

Thanks for all the good ideas everybody!

-Len

>  I have a rack-mount PSA-1 SansAmp and I love it.
>  I found miking and Amp such a hassle and really was not happy
>  with the results.  Maybe after a year and a half I've forgotten
>  what the sound of a real amp is like but.... I'm happy with the
>  PSA-1.  Perhaps it depends on the kind of sound you're expecting.
>
>
>
>

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 1997 08:31:52 -0500
From: Floyd Miller <floyd@voicenet.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re:  Guitar rig advice wanted
Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19971106083152.007c0b80@popmail.voicenet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 08:22 AM 11/6/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>It was one of the little SansAmp boxes, not the rack mounted one. Maybe
>I'll check out the PSA-1. Also, how does that compare to some of the tube
>pre-amps that have bunches of effects too (e.g., from Rocktron, Peavey,
>etc.)? ART also makes a little 1/2 rack space tube pre-amp for only about
>$100. Has anyone tried that?

I tured a couple preamps and found them flat or not very versatile
for going right into a mixer.

I preferred to use separate effects - let the PSA-1 get my basic
tones and add whatever effects processors i like at any given time.



**************** 
  ********** Floyd Miller
    ****** floyd@voicenet.com
      ** http://www.voicenet.com/~floyd

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 1997 16:49:24 +0100
From: Erik Ljones <eriklj@stud.ntnu.no>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re:  Guitar rig advice wanted
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971106164924.0087a730@pop.stud.ntnu.no>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Also, how does that compare to some of the tube
>pre-amps that have bunches of effects too (e.g., from Rocktron, Peavey,
>etc.)? 

I use a Roctron Voodu Valve pre-amp w/ effects. The only reason I use it is
because I got a good deal on it. The pre-amp is ok, I guess, but the
effects...I bypass them 99% of the time, and use my chain of old mono
stompboxes and an Ensoniq dp2 for digital processing instead. The same
thing goes for the effects on the Roland gp100, although I would recomend
this unit before the Rocktron; It has two additional effect loops, so that
you can incorporate your mono effect chains in the order you prefer. My
advice: By your preamp and effects seperatly.

Erik Ljones

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 1997 09:36:03 -0800
From: Roland Eberle <roland@ccnet.com>
To: Loopers-Delight <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Digitech RDS 800
Message-ID: <34620002.4B9B2042@ccnet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Anyone know what this is? I saw one at a local music store used for
$125.
It says "Time Machine" on it and I believe the model number is RDS
800..or
RDS 8000..I have seen references to it on this list before but can't
recall if it
can be used as a looping device or not.
Any and all info would be appreciated.
TIA

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 11:01:36 -0800
From: "Stephen P. Goodman" <sgoodman@earthlight.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Digitech RDS 800
Message-ID: <01bceae6$68240520$a83bd4cc@CIS.compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Roland Eberle <roland@ccnet.com> asked about "Digitech RDS 800/8000":


I use a Digitech 7.6-second "Time Machine" for all my looping.  With a
footpedal for the Open/Close Loop input, it's quite capable for studio and
live loop production.  Bought it in the Recycler here (LA) for $125, used,
of course. :)  Quite nice even in the signal path of an effects send off a
mixer, enabling one to selectively drop things into the loop without much
pain.  The feedback can be inverted, as well.   One input, three outs (Mix,
Phase, Dry).

Stephen Goodman           * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios
EarthLight Productions     * Get the Loop Of The Week Free!

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 1997 16:12:06 +0000
From: "Robert S. Carter" <rsc4@hhmi.upenn.edu>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Looping with a sampler
Message-ID: <3461EC55.7C81@hhmi.upenn.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Basically i'm wondering whether there are any samplers (particularly the
new "phrase" sampler boxes) which can loop on the fly in the style of a
sampling digital delay (i.e. the JamMan). Sure all samplers loop, but in
my experience (I've got an S-760) there's always a couple button presses
worth of processing to be done after recording before you can play back
the loop, plus you've got to trigger the sample somehow. I'm thinking
about something performance friendly that immediately loops and plays
back the sample.

BOB.

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 1997 13:33:41 -0800
From: Kim Flint <kflint@chromatic.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Looping with a sampler
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19971106213341.00745b1c@pop.chromatic.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 04:12 PM 11/6/97 +0000, Robert S. Carter wrote:
>Basically i'm wondering whether there are any samplers (particularly the
>new "phrase" sampler boxes) which can loop on the fly in the style of a
>sampling digital delay (i.e. the JamMan). Sure all samplers loop, but in
>my experience (I've got an S-760) there's always a couple button presses
>worth of processing to be done after recording before you can play back
>the loop, plus you've got to trigger the sample somehow. I'm thinking
>about something performance friendly that immediately loops and plays
>back the sample.

The phrase sampler type boxes generally do allow for fast looping, just like
the jamman/echoplex approach where you tap to start/stop and the sample
starts looping automatically. The frustrating thing I've seen, at least with
the akai stuff like the remix16, is that you can't record and play back at
the same time. That limits a lot of performance applications, where you
might want to sample a new audio element and add it to the currently playing
loop. (overdubbing, inserting, replacing, etc.)

On the other hand, those devices usually have built in sequencers which the
digital delay type boxes don't have, and polyphonic loops are a given.

It's interesting to see how the sampler approach to real-time looping and
the digital-delay approach are moving towards each other and adopting each
other's features. The devices from the sampler world like the remix16 and
others now have the tap-style, easy loop capturing features that delays have
long had with the "hold" button, as well as other performace features like
real-time reverse, etc. And the loop devices from the digital delay
background, like the echoplex, have features like loop triggering with midi,
velocity sensitivity, midi sync, sample dump, etc. You can expect the lines
to get more blurry....

kim
_______________________________________________________
Kim Flint			408-752-9284
Mpact Systems Engineering	kflint@chromatic.com
Chromatic Research		http://www.chromatic.com

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 97 16:21:20 -0500
From: Phil Diem <pdiem@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>,
 <Drumworker@aol.com>
Subject: Re: JamMan Wanted
Message-Id: <m0xTZGb-000RYjC@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Rouge Music has another JamMan listed for their November auction. The 
JamMan in the September auction went for $365, if I remember correctly.

http://www.roguemusic.com/auction.html

Go for it!

Phil 

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 19:33:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Adam Levin <alevin@ari.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Gig in Baltimore Saturday night
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.971106192713.21260B-100000@ari.ari.net>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

The Dark Aether Project featuring yours truly on Chapman Stick (and
amusing, yet sophisticated stage banter), fretted and fretless guitarist
Yaman Aksu and percussionist Brian Griffin will be performing Saturday
night at Tap Tech I at Orion Studios in Baltimore. This show will
feature performances from several Chapman Stick and Warr Guitar players.
The show starts at 9pm and has a mere $5 admission fee. 

I'll be letting fly with some loopiness on the trusty old Digitech Time
Machine and Zoom 508.

See http://www.ari.net/prog/shows/showcase/ for the full poop

-Adam

---
       "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue,
       out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one 
                           becomes a Hearer."
                           - Chandrakirti

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 1997 19:44:22 -0600
From: "Mikell D. Nelson" <mnelson@dmans.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Guitar rig advice wanted
Message-ID: <34627276.90F@dmans.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Len Seligman wrote:
> 
> I'm thinking putting an electric guitar and miscellaneous other things
> (guitar synth, mandolin with a transducer pickup, vocal mike) through a
> mixer, an Echoplex, and then on to a PA board. Question: is there any way
> to do this and have the electric guitar sound good? Currently, I have a '62
> Strat that I play through an all tube Fender Hod Rod Deluxe and it sounds
> *great*. I play it with only a trace of distortion, and I love the sound.
> Is there any way to get anything remotely close without using a guitar amp?
> (I once used a SansAmp for recording purposes, and I thought the sound was
> bad compared to miking the guitar amp.)
> 
> If not, then I fear the only thing I'll be able to loop will be my guitar,
> or else I'll have to send the other stuff through the guitar amp, which is
> not known for great sound for anything but a guitar. (I can't afford two
> Echoplexes for just me.)
> 
How about miking the amp into your mixer? Then the guitar signal could
be treated just like your other instruments, and looped at will. This
would probably necessitate playing the guitar at a low volume to keep it
in balance with the other looped sounds.

Motley

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 21:25:04 -0500 (EST)
From: PainPete@aol.com
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Digitech RDS 800
Message-ID: <971106212504_129044675@mrin46.mail.aol.com>

It is the 8000. I have one and I LOVE it. 8 seconds of delay and lots of
knobs for manual real-time tweaking. It's in mono and doesn't have the sound
reproduction quality of the newer boxes, but I like it better and don't want
anything else. That's a good price, and I would snag it if I were you, I
usually see them in the over $200 range. 

I also have the 1.9 second version and I put them both through my Vortex to
flesh out the sound in stereo, it works beautifully. 

Pete

In a message dated 97-11-06 15:20:29 EST, you write:

<< Subj:	 Digitech RDS 800
 Date:	97-11-06 15:20:29 EST
 From:	roland@ccnet.com (Roland Eberle)
 Reply-to:	Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
 To:	Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com (Loopers-Delight)
 
 Anyone know what this is? I saw one at a local music store used for
 $125.
 It says "Time Machine" on it and I believe the model number is RDS
 800..or
 RDS 8000..I have seen references to it on this list before but can't
 recall if it
 can be used as a looping device or not.
 Any and all info would be appreciated.
 TIA
 
  >>

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 18:51:08 -0800
From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: The Orb...
Message-Id: <v01510106b0879a4150a1@[128.193.5.122]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Hey guys, I'm really into Torn, Fripp, Abercrombie, Frisell, Eno, etc.  I've
>heard about The Orb, but don't know what they're like.  Kinda like Ozric
>Tentacles meets Eno, maybe?!  Who else might anyone recommend to satiate my
>desire for tasteful looping (I can't find a copy of Polytown anywhere!!!).
> Thanks for any help...
>
>
>Brian

I think the Orb are pretty much in a class of their own. Orbus Terrarum is
my favorite of their records, but they're all pretty good.

________________________________________________________
Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org  : www.peak.org/~improv/

"...there will come a day when you won't have to use
gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in
your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper
type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em
together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em
together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire."
                                            -Sun Ra
________________________________________________________

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 17:09:20 +0300
From: miguel.barella@poyry.com.br (MAT)
To: Loopers-Delight <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>, 
    Roland Eberle <roland@ccnet.com> 
Subject: Re: Digitech RDS 800
Message-ID: <00004AA8.4007@poyry.com.br>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: cc:Mail note part

     RDS 8000.
     
     I have one and would not hesitate to buy another for $125.
     
     It is a good "freestyle" loop device; no midi but knobs to tweak and 
     "destroy" the sound.
     
     Go for it.
     
     Miguel


___________________________ Separador de Resposta ______________________________
Assunto: Digitech RDS 800
Autor:  Roland Eberle <roland@ccnet.com> na internet
Data:    06/11/1997 09:36


Anyone know what this is? I saw one at a local music store used for 
$125.
It says "Time Machine" on it and I believe the model number is RDS 
800..or
RDS 8000..I have seen references to it on this list before but can't 
recall if it
can be used as a looping device or not. 
Any and all info would be appreciated. 
TIA
     
     

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 22:55:40 -0500 (EST)
From: TritoneDW@aol.com
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Guitar rig advice wanted
Message-ID: <971106225539_341930044@mrin40.mail.aol.com>

I would like to put in my vote for the THD Hot Plate as well, although it is
still preferable to get the signal through a speaker at some point. For my
projects (usually done in an apartment with thin walls) I run my
guitar/jamman complex through a Mesa Boogie Mk IV into the Hot Plate set on
load, then the line out from that into the power amp in on a Fender R.A.D.
(!!!). It sounds fantastic--the speaker rolls off a little of the brittle
high end you get with direct signal. Of course, you may like the extreme high
end stuff, in which case the line out straight to the board is the way to go.

I got the Hot Plate last year, and now I couldn't imagine living without it.
It's a critical part of my rig. 

Good luck and happy looping,

Drew Wheeler

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 20:15:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Andre LaFosse <altruist@shoko.calarts.edu>
To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Lexicon looping gear for sale in LA
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.91.971106201446.24022B-100000@shoko.calarts.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

All of these are via the RECYCLER newspaper:

-- Vortex for $125; call 818-761-3052

-- Another Vortex for $174; call 213-390-8073

-- JamMan for $250; call 213-662-2463

--------------------------------