------------------------------ Loopers-Delight-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 196 Today's Topics: Re: Stop Plex gremlins! [ klaw@iglou.com ] Zero Crossing. [ mark sottilaro ] Re: Advice wanted for Novice Looper [ Kim Flint ] Re: BeatSync (was vortex info) [ Kim Flint ] Re: BeatSync (was vortex info) [ Anthony Bowyer-Lowe ] Re: BeatSync (was vortex info) [ Kim Flint ] going price for a eh 16 or a buchla [ "Joseph Buck" ] Administrivia: Looper's Delight **************** Please send posts to: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Don't send them to the digest! To subscribe/unsubscribe to the Loopers-Delight digest version, send email with "subscribe" (or "unsubscribe") in both the subject and the body, with no signature files, to: Loopers-Delight-d-request@annihilist.com To subscribe/unsubscribe to the real Loopers-Delight list, send email with "subscribe" (or "unsubscribe") in both the subject and the body, with no signature files, to: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Check the web page for archives and lots of other goodies! http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html Your humble list maintainer, Kim Flint kflint@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 00:17:16 -0500 From: klaw@iglou.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Stop Plex gremlins! Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >>This problem seems to go away after reinitializing on >>boot up but its not holding my settings in memory. > >So the next time you switch it on (without holding Param), its crashing again? >>>>>>Yes until its re initialized. >>Is this hardware > >Probably the EEPROM (non volatile memory) > >>these little gremlins be swept away by installing Loop5.0? > >I doubt it. >>>>>>>Wonder if I could get Oberheim to send new EEPROM( without sending >>>>>>>unit into oblivion)Unit is still very much under warranty. >>Also the beat sync input does not function on my Echoplex > >Maybe you did not quite understand its function. >Does the Plex's green dot between the two multiple digits flash when its in >Reset and receives sync pulses? >If it does, the next Record will be quantized to fit into the puls pattern >it receives. From then on it will stay synced, confirming with the same >green dot whenever it corrects time. >>>>I was attempting to use it for stuttering effects as outlined in the >>>>manual & discussed recently on this list.I have tried using a >>>>footswitch & several audio sources with sync "In"enabled I also >>>>disconected midi but no action. On the subject : Is the upgrade available from Oberheim- Nashville now? Matthias thanks for your reply. K Law ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 02:27:35 -0500 From: mark sottilaro To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Zero Crossing. Message-ID: <346AABE7.F5096A66@mailbox.syr.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Zero Crossing will be playing along with a few other experimental bands this friday at the Westcott community center in Syracuse NY from 7-10pm. Abstract Hip Hop for free! Whooo hoooo! Mark. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 01:31:29 -0800 From: Kim Flint To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Stop Plex gremlins! Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:17 AM -0500 11/13/97, klaw@iglou.com wrote: >> >>>This problem seems to go away after reinitializing on >>>boot up but its not holding my settings in memory. >> >>So the next time you switch it on (without holding Param), its crashing >>again? >>>>>>>Yes until its re initialized. >>>Is this hardware >> >>Probably the EEPROM (non volatile memory) >> >>>these little gremlins be swept away by installing Loop5.0? >> >>I doubt it. >>>>>>>>Wonder if I could get Oberheim to send new EEPROM( without sending >>>>>>>>unit into oblivion)Unit is still very much under warranty. It sounds like your problem is definitely hardware, and quite certainly caused by the parameters not being read properly out of the eeprom. A dead or sick eeprom is very likely, but it could also be caused by one of the parts that controls the eeprom. The ideal thing would be to have Oberheim repair it so that they can check it all out and replace the eeprom if necessary. They should be settled down from the move and management change by now, so that shouldn't be a problem. You could get the new software put in at the same time.... Or you could buy the eeprom from digikey, they only cost about $.80. It's a pain to replace though, because you have to take the whole circuit board out to desolder the old one. Definitely not something to attempt unless you are knowledgeable about electronics repair. >>>Also the beat sync input does not function on my Echoplex >> >>Maybe you did not quite understand its function. >>Does the Plex's green dot between the two multiple digits flash when its in >>Reset and receives sync pulses? >>If it does, the next Record will be quantized to fit into the puls pattern >>it receives. From then on it will stay synced, confirming with the same >>green dot whenever it corrects time. >>>>>I was attempting to use it for stuttering effects as outlined in the >>>>>manual & discussed recently on this list.I have tried using a >>>>>footswitch & several audio sources with sync "In"enabled I also >>>>>disconected midi but no action. Ah, doing stuttering and loop retriggering is not the same as sync! That must be the confusion. You can use pulses on beatsync to retrigger loops (in addition to using them for sync). Do it this way: - Plug a momentary switch or drum trigger or some other pulse generating thing into BeatSync. - Record a loop - Press Mute - Press Multiply. Now you are in a "retrigger with beatsync mode" - Send pulse to BeatSync. The loop will trigger at the beginning and play once through. Each time you pulse BeatSync again it will retrigger the loop - that's how you get the stuttering. You can also do this with Mute-Insert, where each press of Insert retriggers the loop and gives the stuttering effects. Or another way is using midi for LoopTriggering, with SamplerStyle set to "one." Whatever works. Loop retriggering works better with the new software. There were some bugs fixed there, and some big changes in the way memory is used. In the old software it wouldn't do retriggers unless the loop was much shorter than the total available loop time. (which could also be your problem) With the new software you can retrigger with maximum length loops that take the whole memory, and there's no problem. >On the subject : Is the upgrade available from Oberheim- Nashville now? It better be! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 02:02:13 -0800 From: Kim Flint To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Advice wanted for Novice Looper Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 1:11 PM -0500 11/12/97, Drumworker@aol.com wrote: >I realize that this question has probably been asked several times before, so >forgive me, but... > >Does the Echoplex have an "echo"-type setting that works in a way similar to >the JamMan's? I intend to buy one or the other but don't know if I should own >both!?! yes it has Delay mode, which I imagine is similar. Audio always goes into the delay line, like a traditional delay. The Overdub button then becomes a "hold" function, where feedback is set to 100% and audio is no longer added to the loop. Unlike the jamman, the echoplex's feedback can be set with much finer resolution. (I think the jamman only has 16 steps) All the other echoplex functions work the normal way in delay mode. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 01:38:00 -0800 From: Kim Flint To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: BeatSync (was vortex info) Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 2:39 AM -0300 11/13/97, Matthias Grob wrote: >Kim again, after strong coffee: >>Does anyone know more about how those old clocks work? How many >>pulses are sent to define the time? It's possible it works, but I'm >>starting to doubt it. Matthias would know. > >Me? Never heard of "old clocks". I also assumed simple pulses... > >Matthias Me, sleep-deprived again: The question is about the type of clock generated by old analog arpeggiators and sequencers, from before midi. Does it send a pulse each beat? A pulse at each bar? At the beginning of the sequence? Or does it send many pulses for each beat, the way midi clock works? It would be fun to figure out how to sync the old analog stuff up to modern loopers. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 10:35:38 -0000 From: Anthony Bowyer-Lowe To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: BeatSync (was vortex info) Message-ID: <01bcf01f$e268c260$LocalHost@amudarya> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >The question is about the type of clock generated by old analog >arpeggiators and sequencers, from before midi. Does it send a pulse each >beat? A pulse at each bar? At the beginning of the sequence? Or does it >send many pulses for each beat, the way midi clock works? Okay people... Well, sync24 is the most common vintage method of synchronising analogue equipment, as found on old drum machines (Roland TR808, TR606) and synths/sequencers (eg Roland MC-202). As it's name suggests, it consists of 24 voltage pulses (normally +5v, for around 5ms) per quarter note. Yup, just like midi clock... Also found is sync48, which is used by some old Korg drum machines, and consists of 48 pulses per quarter note. I just sync my Korg DDM220 to standard Roland sync24 (also known as Din Sync as it uses a 5 pin DIN plug, easily confused with midi), and program the Korg in double time... To confuse matters further, sync48 also uses a 5 pin Din plug. Most analogue sequencers and arpeggiators just have a trigger in/out which advance the sequence by one step. Usually just a positive going pulse (+5v), although some equipment used a negative going pulse (-5v), or a short to ground (S-Trig). >It would be fun to figure out how to sync the old analog stuff up to modern >loopers. I figure it'd be a great project (for people like us) to build a little sync utility box. It'd have a bunch of converters to convert between the varying types of pulse, and a clock divider which output a trigger every x input pulses... More information of this kind can be found through the analogue heaven mailing list (www.hyperreal.com/music/machines/) or synth-diy. Questions? Analogue freak, and budding looper, ynohtnA. -- Anthony Bowyer-Lowe. The Essence Of Anthony. http://www.amudarya.demon.co.uk/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 12:32:04 +0100 From: Haible Juergen To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: BeatSync again, and analoge clock pulses Message-ID: <1BF5E20E0C4DD111BBAB00805FE2D5820C98C5@nbgm336a.nbgm.siemens.de> Content-Type: text/plain >Kims answer: >>No, it won't do that I'm afraid. As the clock varies within a certain >>tolerance, the echoplex will stay in sync by retriggering the loop to keep >>it lined up. But if the tempo changes too much, it assumes that you don't >>want to stay in sync anymore and it stops trying. So then the loop just >>plays on in its normal length. The echoplex can't do time stretching or >>tape-speed-changing effects. Still very useful though, because most clocks >>have a lot of jitter and drift around in speed. The sync keep things lined >>up, so that the loop and the sequencer or whatever don't drift from each >>other. > >What great companion Kim sais is all true but maybe does not answer the >question quite exactly: >The sync corrections happens whenever a sync pulse comes in close to the >loop end. I understand from Juergens example that the Plex contains a 500ms >loop. When the sync signal does not come for 10 seconds, it repeats the >500ms phrase freely during the "time window" but does the syncing after 10 >seconds since this is a multiple of 500ms. So yes, it stays in sync, but >does not slow down 20 times, as you might want :-). >And yes, if you slow down to say 9.8 seconds, it will not sync any more. Thanks for your answers! This completely makes sense. Now, if I don't go to extremes, will it sync at *both* late *and* early sync pulses? Say the loop length is 5 seconds, then a sync at 4.99 seconds would reset the loop, but what about a sync at 5.01 seconds? I asume the Plex will reset automatically after 5 seconds, play 10ms, until the next sync comes in, and resets again. I think it must work like this, otherwise you could only shorten the loop, but not adjust a slightly too fast loop. *Does* it work like this? >Kim again, after strong coffee: >>Does anyone know more about how those old clocks work? How many >>pulses are sent to define the time? It's possible it works, but I'm >>starting to doubt it. Matthias would know. >Me? Never heard of "old clocks". I also assumed simple pulses... Now, there was this "Din Sync" stuff (with jacks that looked like Midi jacks, or old Hifi gear jacks - 5 pin / 180 degree type). These had several pulses per quater note indeed. But I can't tell how many (may even vary between manufacturers), and honestly I never used them myself. But your question was about arpeggiator and analogue sequencer clocks, or LFO sync on synthesizers, and here it's clearly one pulse per "event". For an arpeggiator "event" would be one *note*, but with analog sequencers you had the choice: You could generate the pulse from the sequencer's clock (i.e. 1 pulse per note), from the sequencer's reset signal (i.e. 1 pulse per sequencer loop), or at some models you could even program pulses for several notes of the sequence, and no pulse for others. And then there were clock dividers, trigger delays etc. - one reason why I *love* these old analog systems. Now the shape of the pulses: You could either have a voltage rising from 0V to some other voltage (most common is +5V, but there are systems that produce up to +15V, and even some with negative voltages). This is called "Voltage trigger". Then there was a "Switch trigger", which did exactly what the name says, close a switch to gnd mometarily with every pulse. This system war used (amongst others) by Korg (Famous SQ-10 sequencer), in order to be compatible to a simple footswitch. But be careful: Most of the time this was just an npn transistor turned on, so chances are good that you can connect it to some other device that need a footswitch to gnd, but you have no guarantee. The lenght of these pulses could either be a few Milliseconds (then it's called "Trigger"), or the whole lenght of the note (then it's called "Gate"). Jacks: 6.3mm "headphone type" were most common, but there were also 3.5mm jacks (ARP and some Roland, amongst others), Banana plugs (Buchla, Serge, ...) and of course the very special Moog types. JH. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 15:31:04 +0100 From: "nicomonguzzi" To: Loopers Delight * Mail List Subject: Stuttering ? & jovanotti Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ciao a tutti. 1> anyone can explain the technique of STUTTERING... 2> yersteday evening i've seen a very nice concert of the italian rap funk singer Jovanotti with is very good band. The guitar player (maybe Michele Centonze, i'm not sure) was using an Echoplex. ciao ciao nicos ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 12:31:30 -0500 (EST) From: MiqSk8@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Lexicon Vortex for Sale Message-ID: <971113123128_1104457371@mrin58.mail.aol.com> well, much to my own displeasure, i am forced to share a source that i really can't afford to take advantage of: http://iguana.ebay2.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1814492 i am actually the high bidder on this-but i've had something else come up(a baby!!!) and auction web frowns on backing out.... i've talked with the owner-seems in good shape, includes wart, a/b and a continuous controller as well... help me(and yourself out).. pouting :( ------------------------------ Date: 13 Nov 1997 12:41:17 -0800 From: "Hartnett, Travis" To: "Loopers Delight postings" Subject: FS: Kahler Human Clock $150 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; Name="Message Body" With all the recent talk of syncing old gear up, this might be of interest to someone: (from Harmony Central) Kahler Human Clock/Midiman Sync Box $150 Asking Price: US$150 Condition: Mint Age: 6 years Description: Sync your midi sequencer to live tracks or generate FSK for perfect sync from your computer or stand alone sequencer. The Human Clock even allows your sequencer to follow a live drummer. 2 excellent pieces of gear now discontinued but still very cool! midisync@mindspring.com Seller: Bill Campbell, E-mail: midisync@mindspring.com Location: ATLANTA, GA Post Date: 11/13/97 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 12:53:27 -0500 (EST) From: MiqSk8@aol.com To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: re:vrotex for sale Message-ID: <971113125327_664226268@mrin44.mail.aol.com> well, much to my own displeasure, i am forced to share a source that i really can't afford to take advantage of: http://iguana.ebay2.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1814492 i am actually the high bidder on this-but i've had something else come up(a baby!!!) and auction web frowns on backing out.... i've talked with the owner-seems in good shape, includes wart, a/b and a continuous controller as well... help me(and yourself out).. pouting :( ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 16:23:45 -0300 From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: BeatSync (was vortex info) Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Anthony helps competentely about "old clocks": >Well, sync24 is the most common vintage method of synchronising analogue >equipment, as found on old drum machines (Roland TR808, TR606) and >synths/sequencers (eg Roland MC-202). > >As it's name suggests, it consists of 24 voltage pulses (normally +5v, for >around 5ms) per quarter note. Yup, just like midi clock... This makes me think that I could connect the 8th/beat counter to BeatSync, too. So this parameter would not only define the number of clocks / 8th note for MIDISync but also the number of pulses / loop (actually: cycle) for BeatSync. But then again, someone might use MIDI and BeatSync simultaneously, one in and the other out... >Most analogue sequencers and arpeggiators just have a trigger in/out which >advance the sequence by one step. Usually just a positive going pulse (+5v), >although some equipment used a negative going pulse (-5v), or a short to >ground (S-Trig). We did the last version, I call it OpenCollector (OC). The BeatSync line is softly (10kOhm) pulled up to +5V and can be shorted to ground either from outside (as input) or from inside (as output). The big advantage of this system is that many machines can stay connected and send or receive pulses simultaneously (as long as you keep track of what happens :-) >I figure it'd be a great project (for people like us) to build a little >sync utility box. It'd have a bunch of converters to convert between the >varying types of pulse, and a clock divider which output a trigger every >x input pulses... This might be smarter than changing the Plex, since I do not have enough parameters to cover up all options and also, there might only be a hand full of those crazy analog sound creators,,, wrong? Anyway, I love to learn about those things, thank you. Matthias ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 10:39:38 -0800 From: Kim Flint To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Stuttering ? & jovanotti Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 3:31 PM +0100 11/13/97, nicomonguzzi wrote: >ciao a tutti. >1> anyone can explain the technique of STUTTERING... That's where you have some longer sample, and trigger it several times quickly before letting it play through. So you repeat the beginning several times. Often you make some sort of rhythm out of it. You hear it a lot in hip-hop, either done with a sampler or on a turntable. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 10:52:40 -0800 From: Kim Flint To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: BeatSync (was vortex info) Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:35 AM +0000 11/13/97, Anthony Bowyer-Lowe wrote: Excellent info, thanks! some questions: >>The question is about the type of clock generated by old analog >>arpeggiators and sequencers, from before midi. Does it send a pulse each >>beat? A pulse at each bar? At the beginning of the sequence? Or does it >>send many pulses for each beat, the way midi clock works? >Well, sync24 is the most common vintage method of synchronising analogue >equipment, as found on old drum machines (Roland TR808, TR606) and >synths/sequencers (eg Roland MC-202). > >As it's name suggests, it consists of 24 voltage pulses (normally +5v, for >around 5ms) per quarter note. Yup, just like midi clock... ok, I thought as much. For the Echoplex BeatSync jack this would not be appropriate. Sounds like it would be pretty easy to convert sync24 to midi clock, though, since the frequency of the pulses is the same. There must be some box out there that does this? >Most analogue sequencers and arpeggiators just have a trigger in/out which >advance the sequence by one step. Usually just a positive going pulse (+5v), >although some equipment used a negative going pulse (-5v), or a short to >ground (S-Trig). This might be an interesting possibility, but I'm not sure I understand. So this pulse would come out each time the sequence restarts? Or is it each 1/8th note (or whatever is the step size of the sequencer)? Either way, that one could work for the Echoplex BeatSync, although I don't know what other device would use it. >>It would be fun to figure out how to sync the old analog stuff up to modern >>loopers. > >I figure it'd be a great project (for people like us) to build a little >sync utility box. It'd have a bunch of converters to convert between the >varying types of pulse, and a clock divider which output a trigger every >x input pulses... With so many people using the old synths in modern setups, I'd almost think this had already been done! Maybe not with so much versatility. I think something that can covert the Sync24 to midi clock would be fine for any midi sync-able loop device. thanks, kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 12:28:10 PST From: "Joseph Buck" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: going price for a eh 16 or a buchla thunder? Message-ID: <19971113202810.8479.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Hi- What do you all think is the going rate for a used EH 16 or a Buchla Thunder? Much thanks, Buck ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 97 14:21:00 EST From: Edward_Chang@mail.amsinc.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re:Lo-Fi StutterinG Message-Id: <9710138794.AA879463259@mail.amsinc.com> >ciao a tutti. >1> anyone can explain the technique of STUTTERING... Is 'stuttering' the 'd-d-d-d-d-d-d' sound on aggressive drum & bass tracks you mean (ala Squarepusher, Alec Empire, Plug, etc..)? I've also heard that referred to as "machine-gunning". I don't know how other people do it but I've approximated the effect with a Boss RV-3 Digital Reverb/Delay pedal by setting the regen on the highest setting, the delay time on the lowest/fastest setting and manually triggering it when an appropriate drum beat hits. Also when you twist the delay time knob it automatically makes the delay signal either cut off (typically the desired effect) or go haywire. The complete opposite of what the fabled Echo +/P(R)DS8000 does. I like to use the RV-3 before the PDS8000 so I can speed up or slow down the hits even more. Now what about "timestretching"? ed chang ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 97 14:46:33 -0000 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Subject: Re: going price for a eh 16 or a buchla thunder? Message-Id: <199711132042.MAA20920@scv1.apple.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > >What do you all think is the going rate for a used EH 16 or a Buchla >Thunder? Cheapest I've seen a EH16 for is $800. $1200 is not unheard of. Travis ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 97 22:39:25 -0500 From: Markus Reuter To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: GEAR Question: Roland GR-700 Message-Id: <199711132141.AA286327311@hermes.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de> -- [ From: Markus Reuter * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- hi fellow loopers! i just spotted a Roland GR-700 guitar synth (including the guitar) in a turkish second hand store over here in germany. is it worth getting it? what's a reasonable price for a used GR-700 nowadays? thanks for your help! cheers! markus -- -> Markus Reuter, Dammwiese 7, 33613 Bielefeld, Germany <- -> email mreuter@post.uni-bielefeld.de <-> phone (521) 896248 <- -> http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/markus.htm <- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 13:59:26 -0800 From: "Matt McCabe" To: Subject: Re: GEAR Question: Roland GR-700 Message-Id: <199711132151.NAA27924@gw1.bi-tech.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > From: Markus Reuter > i just spotted a Roland GR-700 guitar synth (including the > guitar) in a turkish second hand store over here in germany. > > is it worth getting it? > what's a reasonable price for a used GR-700 nowadays? I've never played one, but the earlier GR-300 is supposed to track better. The GR-700 uses MIDI to trigger the sounds (hence the delay) and I seem to remember that it didn't transmit pitch bend information (don't quote me on that). I remember that Andy Summers and Robert Fripp preferred the GR-300 because it "felt" better to play and had a more "organic" sound (it's basically an analog synth). Matt --------------------------------