------------------------------ Loopers-Delight-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 207 Today's Topics: New Roy Montgomery (was: On being co [ Robert Tichacek ] Re: Top ten list with quotes [ Kim Flint ] Top ten list with quotes [ ZeplinSoup@aol.com (by way of Kim F ] Current Listening and All time top s [ patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) ] To all you musicians [ patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) ] AW: Greg Howard. Looping. Current Li [ Haible Juergen ] Re: Logic Audio Users [ Neil Goldstein ] Re: Top 10 and occult [ Frank Gerace ] Administrivia: Looper's Delight **************** Please send posts to: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Don't send them to the digest! To subscribe/unsubscribe to the Loopers-Delight digest version, send email with "subscribe" (or "unsubscribe") in both the subject and the body, with no signature files, to: Loopers-Delight-d-request@annihilist.com To subscribe/unsubscribe to the real Loopers-Delight list, send email with "subscribe" (or "unsubscribe") in both the subject and the body, with no signature files, to: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Check the web page for archives and lots of other goodies! http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html Your humble list maintainer, Kim Flint kflint@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 18:01:48 -0500 From: Robert Tichacek To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: New Roy Montgomery (was: On being complete nerds) Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Some looper named Jesse wrote: >>Dissolve - Third Album For the Sun > >How's this? Extremely good. For those familiar with Dissolve's _That That Is...Is (Not)_, the new one is texturally richer (keyboards, cello, and percussion have been added to the guitars) and rather more "song" oriented, esp. on the cuts that feature Kaye Woodward of the Bats. For those not familiar with Dissolve, it's a duo of Kiwi-land guitarists Roy Montgomery (see below) and Chris Heaphy who combine lush shimmery atmospheric stuff with thorny experimentalism (think 70's Wire); not sure if there's actual looping going on, but there's a lot of long delay times stacking up guitar textures, providing pulses, etc. I'd certainly reccommend either album to anyone on this list. > >>Roy Montgomery - Two Trajectories > >What's up with this? When did it come out, who put it out, etc? 7" out on Enraptured, fairly recent. A side (45) is a gentle 60's/"Eastern" flavored piece that is quite lovely, B side (33) is a more rocking piece with lots o'fuzz. Big problem: Enraptured is fond of putting out records in very limited editions, and the above is limited to 280 copies (just what the indie/underground music scene needs: *more* elitism and kollektorskum). I think Darren at Drunken Fish Records may have a few lying about (dfr@sirius.com http://www.sirius.com/~dfr); he also has a set o'webpages dedicated to Roy. Roy and/or Dissolve is scheduled to play at the second Ptolemaic Terrascope festival, which I believe is happening in April in San Francisco; as I intend to be moving to that area shortly I won't have to make another mammoth drive like I did for the first one (central VA to Providence RI is not very fun). Font of knowledge Robert T. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 01:34:51 -0500 (EST) From: Tom Lambrecht To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Are you receiving me--Jamman for sale Message-Id: <199711200634.BAA23523@newman.concentric.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Kim: I'm not receiving copies of my posts all of the sudden, which given my ready wit sez one of two things: they aren't getting through, or . . . they're not as witty as I think a one word confirm will suffice. Oh, and by the way, brand new Jamman sighting on Marmony Central "Mint, $375" andrewc@interport.net drone on~~~~~~~~~~~~~Tom Tom Lambrecht hideo@concentric.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 00:58:18 -0800 From: Andre LaFosse To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Recent listening and self-promotional blurb Message-ID: <3473FB9A.20A@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael Peters wrote: > Ha! Check this out: > > >Zvuki Mu -- [don't know the title since I can't read Russian] > > Zvuki Mu was originally 'discovered' and produced by Brian Eno. > Here's a webpage ... > http://www.trouserpress.com/bandpages/ZVUKI_MU.html Wow... gotta hand it to you Michael, you know about some seriously obscure music. I've gotta take exception with the Trouser Press reviewer's assessment of the band as less than compelling, though. (Then again, it may just be the Eno record, though with a producer like that, I doubt it). And while of course Eno's involvement had a lot to do with their visibility over here, it's a bit of a disservice to them and their recordings before and after the Opal release to say that Eno "discovered" them, but of course I catch your drift (and without him they likely would never have gigged in America with the Residents, etc. etc...) Woah, a thread on underground '80s Moscow rock bands -- WAAAAY off topic. Sorry... --Andrei ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 01:39:23 -0800 From: Kim Flint To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: re: nerds, music, cd's, looping, volunteering... Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 2:10 AM -0300 11/20/97, Matthias Grob wrote: >>>Anyway , I have taken up this space because I feel this is stuff that is >>>more valuable to us as MUSICIANS , as well as guitarists. I hope we can get >>>more discussions on this subject , and thank you Kim , for pionting out >>>that the emperor is almost completely nude ( and not very sexy)......chew >>>on that , guys!! >>> >>>Your looper in Norway , Thomas Woehni >> >>That's exactly it. There's a lot more to music and looping and our >>relationship to those things than the junk we plug into to do it. Easy to >>forget about that sometimes..... >> >>kim > >Ok, but why then talk about the (CD-) output of the others, while we create >our own? Because we don't always create, often we just listen. And if someone else is finding some music inspiring or moving or just interesting, maybe others will too! It's a good thing to share some of the great music we have all experienced. Many of the artists people listed are great loopers, and it is almost certain that nobody here has heard everything mentioned. We probably all have new items on our "cd's to buy list" after the last couple of days! Also, I think that talks like this bring us closer together as a community. Musical tastes reflect a lot of things about our personalities and lives and experiences, and by sharing them we open those parts of ourselves to the others in a way that is easy and comfortable. We get to know each other better and can more easily move from there to richer conversation. I learned a lot about some people here that I didn't expect, and I'm happy about that! And I was also glad to see a number of people venture out who had been shy about posting so far. We're glad to have you, please continue to share your thoughts.... The cd lists maybe are not always about looping, but that's fine. It's easy to move from there back to the loop. But actually, it is about looping if you step back a bit and look at the whole of it. Our collective listening habits reflect a remarkable amount of diversity here, in our looping community. Looping is not stuck in one genre, it crosses a lot of boundaries. These differences among us are opportunities to grow. We can learn from others what we never would have realized on our own, and bring those new ideas back to our own part of the universe. One of my motivations to create Looper's Delight was from my experiences doing occasional tech support for expert echoplex users while I was still at gibson. I was amazed that these people were coming from radically different backgrounds, yet all finding a use for this remarkable creative method! And the different perpectives and musical directions led to different approaches to looping. I thought: these people need to share their ideas with each other! Everyone could take such a leap forward....and so here we are! >And then not even list it up on the page "loop artists" ? Yes, that part still needs work. Looper's Delight is mostly a volunteer effort. Like I've said many times, if it were just me doing this, it would really suck. There are many people helping out and doing a wonderful job. But there is still more to do! The Loop Artists section of the web site is a good example. It desperately needs a loving owner. Please, please, if you have any interest in this, let me know. It's not even hard, I'm sure you could get plenty of help and contributions from the list. >And how about our own sample CD or label? There was the cd project from long ago, but the guy organizing it disappeared. Anybody want to take a project like that? Or maybe we even set up RealAudio sites? Anything is possible. I'm patient. It might not be perfect by tomorrow, but it gets a little closer all the time. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 00:51:48 -0800 From: Kim Flint To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Top ten list with quotes Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Top Ten: >Good Idea...I checked out Mr.Bungle (*!) ..finally upon the >Nudging of another 10 list. >It is always nice to know what one regards as their "top ten" >If they think its that good then mabey I should check it out >for hoopla (l?) ... >These are My Favorites :::: nothing to do with looping so just skip on if you're not interested, but Mr. Bungle is one of my favorite bands ever. They put out the wonderful "Mr. Bungle" album years ago, a strange mix of metal, ska, and demented circus music, with production by John Zorn. Mike Patton was amazing even then, and of course he went on to become a very famous rock star while the rest of Mr. Bungle puttered around playing in the local noise improv bands, probably feeling sorry for themselves since they didn't get to be rich rock stars too. Then finally Patton gets tired of the rock star thing, wanders back, and they produce the sublime "Disco Volante" album. Amusing story: Me: [place bunch of cd's on counter at Amoeba records, including Disco Volante] jaded-yet-hip-amoeba-employee: "you know this is nothing like their last album." me: "that's fine" jyhae: "You're not going to like it. It's very weird" me: "great! I want it then" jyhae: "we played it in the store once, and the owner made us take it off. He banned it from ever being played at amoeba again. Are you sure you want this?" me: "wow, now I definitely want it!" Disco Volante is some kind of strange collision of speed metal, ennio morricone, and avant-noise rock. And patton's vocals are just great - so adventurous and creative. It took a few listens to really grasp the album and start to like it, a bit too much at first I think. But now I really enjoy it. There's so much in there to discover. I've heard their rare live appearances are great, but I've never managed to see one since they always sell out around here. ah well.... >6)Wagner - symphony of the air *especially the part whose name i dont >remember > **But is featured in "larry Flint" in the >scene where Woody is talking That's "Flynt". Sadly, we're not related. :-) kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 02:01:07 -0800 From: ZeplinSoup@aol.com (by way of Kim Flint) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Top ten list with quotes Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Top Ten: Good Idea...I checked out Mr.Bungle (*!) ..finally upon the Nudging of another 10 list. It is always nice to know what one regards as their "top ten" If they think its that good then mabey I should check it out for hoopla (l?) ... These are My Favorites :::: ;; VV _ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1)Mozart - Fantasia in F minor *s preformed by Murray Perahia(piano), and Radu Lapu (piano),* cd is done by the English Chamber Orchestra well...this one is #1 the rest are too hard to reserve place 2)Herbie Hankcock - Head Hunters 3)James Brown - 20 greatest hits ( and lots of great drummin') 4)Jeff Beck - Wired 5)Hendrix-Live at winterland 6)Wagner - symphony of the air *especially the part whose name i dont remember **But is featured in "larry Flint" in the scene where Woody is talking infront of a movie screen playing atrocities at a demonstation ***quote from Wagner-"I am the German Spirit".Consult the incomparable magic of my works;hold them side by side with everything else; you have no choice but to say - this is German" 7)Miles Davis - Kind of Blue,Pangea 8)Genesis - Nursery Crimes 9)Coltrane - A love supreme 10)Pink Floyd - Ummagumma final quote:"Don't bother to look,Ive composed this already." ** Gustav Mahler, to Bruno Walter who had stopped to admire mountain Austria thanks for the record "to buy" lists !! Reeve ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 22:14:26 +0200 From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Current Listening and All time top something Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Currently what I've been giving a lot of listenign to is: (in no particular order) 1. Hell! Hell! Hell! Hell! Hell! by Loren Mazzacane Conners. Solo electric guitar. Somewhat. 2. Collapse by Mick Harris and James Plotkin.VEry dark ambient droney music. 3. Dead Cities by Future Sound of London. 4. Native of the Rain by Tony Geballe. Solo 12 string magic. 5. Duo and Trio Improvisations- Derek Bailey wih others. 6. Arcana- The Last Wave- Derek Bailey, Tony Williams, Bill LAswell. 7. Songs From the Cold Seas_- Hector Zazou 8. Viral Sonata- DJ Spooky, actually Paul D. Miller on this disc. 9. Undark- Russel Mills with guests like Eno, Sylvian... 10. The "WELS" COncert- Peter Brotzman, Hamid Drake, and Mahmoud Gania 11. Songs of the Cows_- The Merman...Surf guitar for the 90's 12. Myself- that constant chatter inside my head, occasionally quieted down by muisc or mediatation...... Some of my all time favs: King Crimson most of their rleeases.. Eno most, but particulary Another Green World and On Land. Derek Bailey- Most but I could not live without Solo Guitar Volume Two. Twenty century classical music in my book... Bela Bartok.... all but especially String Quartets No 5 and 6!!! Powerful music. Jan Gabarek...he has a release with David Torn btw and another one with Frisell. Jimi, Jimi, Jimi.....need I say more? Peace, Patrick PS there is a hellof a lot that I left out as I'm sure most of us have...... *** *** ** Fingerpaint http://www.his.com/~patrick/FNGP.html *** ** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 22:14:13 +0200 From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: To all you musicians Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A CD that has come up a few times on the recent top 10 lists here is Tony Geballe's " Native of the Rain." I encourage everyone to pick this CD up at once. Now why I am doing this? Well Tony is a friend of mine and I'd love to see him succeed. The music is for solo 12 string guitar and represents the work of a mature artist who has found his own voice. While the music is accessible, it stands up to repeated listening. Native of the Rain was released on Robert Fripp's DGM label. One of the aims of DGM is to assist muscians who otherwise would have a very tough chance to be released and yet merit the opportunity. This is another reason to buy this disc. To let DGM (and other labels) know that when worthwhile music is presented to the markteplace, that the market will respond. This past Saturday Tony opened for Bon Lozago and PRoject Lo, featuring Caryn Lin. Tony set was outstanding, as well as Project Lo. Caryn did a very beautiful looped solo piece tha was written for a nephews birth. Project Lo will be at Phantasmagoria in WHeaton this Friday night so all you DC locals should ruch right over. Caryn had both a Echoplex and a jam man. Bon and the other Gutiarist, Jim Fogarty each had a Vortex and a jam man. Great great music!!! Patrick *** *** ** Fingerpaint http://www.his.com/~patrick/FNGP.html *** ** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 13:02:46 +0100 From: Haible Juergen To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: AW: Greg Howard. Looping. Current Listening. Message-ID: <1BF5E20E0C4DD111BBAB00805FE2D5820F8B85@nbgm336a.nbgm.siemens.de> Content-Type: text/plain > 4/6. RF Pie Jesu, The Outer Darkness and November Suite (one of >RF's best Soundscapes so far) "Pie Jesu" is wonderful. I love this, and "Blessing of Tears", more than my other Fripp Soundscape CDs. I was looking for "Outer darkness" everywhere (in Germany), but I cannot get it for some reason. And I haven't heard of "November Suite" ... Where did you get these? JH. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 18:50:20 -0500 (EST) From: Tom Lambrecht To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Nerd Herd Message-Id: <199711192350.SAA22116@cliff.concentric.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:59 AM 11/19/97 -0500, you wrote: > > >"I have to do this about once a month or so. The geeks start to run amok, >so >you gotta thin out the herd a little." > >WORD :-))) Kim, for those of us who don't get a little chill on the back >of our necks when talking gear, thanks for keeping L'il Loopy D. living in >the broader vein. > Whoa, that seems a little excessive--we equipment nerds aren't like that at all. We love, laugh and fornicate just like you "musical souls". And I'm going to implement those protocols (well, need to work on a partner for two of them ;) right after I burn a few EPROMS for a little gizmo I've been working on . . . NO . . .heck it's a beautiful night--I'm going out! As soon as I find my trusty pocket protector . . CRUNCH--Darn, my glasses--oh well, nothing a little electrical tape can't fix Tom Tom Lambrecht hideo@concentric.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:55:59 From: "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: AW: Greg Howard. Looping. Current Listening. Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19971120165559.1e275d8a@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >"Pie Jesu" is wonderful. I love this, and "Blessing of Tears", more than >my other Fripp Soundscape CDs. >I was looking for "Outer darkness" everywhere (in Germany), but I cannot >get it for some reason. And I haven't heard of "November Suite" ... >Where did you get these? They're available, direct-only, from Discipline Global Mobile. The albums are to be found on www.discipline.co.uk, along with 1-minute samples from all the albums in the DGM catalogue. You also get the story behind the November suite, which is (a) slightly sad (b) something we could all probably relate to and (c) quite amusing in parts, including Fripp's post-gig grocery shopping. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:02:31 From: "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Sustainer, Forcione Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19971120170231.1b17524a@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dave Orton: > There was also an uncredited guitarist > (who may have been called Joe Harrison - the announcements were > off-mic and difficult to hear from 2/3rds back) who made extensive use > of a Fernandes Sustainer (now I *really* want one of those) and a > multitude of delays and effects to great..erm - effect. On the subject of which, do you Ststainer-equipped types out there get much feedback of more than one note? When I tried a sustainer most feedback happened around one note - so the main advantage over an Ebow was that you don't have to hold it! (I know this is a gear question.... Sorry Kim....) > Also: At lunch time yesterday I saw the acoustic guitarist Antonio > Forcione dueting with saxophonist Ed Jones. I think Matthias mentioned > before that AF has experimented with looping, but this is the first > time I've seen him use it (sparingly) in performance. He has a Paradis > LoopDelay which in this situation was used to create backing for his > solos on two numbers. Again, well worth a listen if you see them > advertised near you (particularly if you like Jan Garbarek-style > European, folk influenced jazz) AF also plays with another acoustic guitarist, Niel Stacy. I have _never_ seen two people be so dazzlingly competent musicians and yet screamingly hilarious at the same time. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 08:06:51 -0800 From: "Matt McCabe" To: Subject: I'm Volunteering!!!!!! Message-Id: <199711201557.HAA24064@gw1.bi-tech.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > From: Kim Flint > >And how about our own sample CD or label? > > There was the cd project from long ago, but the guy organizing it > disappeared. Anybody want to take a project like that? Or maybe we even set > up RealAudio sites? Anything is possible. I hereby volunteer to organize the CD project. Uhh....should we take a vote? I freelance at a local studio and therefore have FREE (I didn't say that) access to various pieces of recording gear that will come in handy for compiling submissions (ProTools, ADAT, DAT, etc). Heck, I can even process credit card orders should we wish to release the CD to the world and make MILLIONS....errrr....spread the good word (you know, Looping). I'll wait for the official stamp of approval before proceeding. Matt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 09:06:44 -0800 From: Neil Goldstein To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Logic Audio Users Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Someone suggested Logic Audio as it has 8 outs which should make >thispossible for me. That is the Audiowerk card which is hardware. Check out the emagic website for more info. do a search on your web browser. I use Logic after having used the other seqs and find it to be the most powerful, though there is some learning at the start. Very powerful. The reviews on the card seem positive. Neil ngold@imagina.com Portland, OR USA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 12:16:12 -0500 (EST) From: Frank Gerace To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Top 10 and occult Message-Id: <199711201716.MAA05269@user1.channel1.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A quick look at what I've been listening to lately shows me I'm not listening to a lot of loopy stuff at the moment. I go through phases. So, in no particular order, Rimiti- Sidi Monsour- a great cd by a 70+ year old Algerian woman with Fripp, Flea, Ray Gomez and a whole slew of other folks. Amazing stuff. Dead Can Dance - random tape collections from all their albums (or at least a lot of them) Huun Hur Tu/ Bulgarian Womens Choir (or whatever it is they've changed their name to- some beautiful meditative pieces here Yes - Relayer I forgot how much I like this record Gypsy Flamenco recordings by Lole Y Manuel, FBernarda de Utrera, Terremoto de Jerez and a few others Robin Williamson Songs for the Mabinogi a great album of atmosphereic soundtracy type stuff on a wide variety of old acoustic instruments Beatles - I was out sick yesterday and spent time regressing and listened to their entire recoded output (the legit stufdf, I'd still be there now if I added in the bootlegs) King Crimson - Islands- an all time favorite If the thread isn't dead by next week (I'm away from the computer for the next several days and need to actually get some work done before I disappear) I have some thoughts on the music and the occult thread as well, so please, keep it going for a few days. Frank Gerace Dreamchild At 01:40 PM 11/19/97 -0800, you wrote: >My top 10 list of most played discs is heavily influenced by hanging out >with my 8 yr old daughter who is a top 40 and "alternative" fan, and a >limited budget for buying CDs (too much spent on my own gear): > >1. Spice Girls (some of the production is admirable...) >2. Sarah McLaghlan (grows on you, beautiful) >3. XTC (my fav band by far, new album to be out in 5/98 I hear) >4. Talvin Singh presents Soundz of the Asian Underground >5. new Bjork >6. Fleetwood Mac live >7. Brian Wilson and Van Dyke Parks "Orange Crate Art" >8. Beatles Anthology >9.. > >I'm too involved in creating my own shit to listen much to other music, and >find there's not enough time and money to hear all the great stuff people >recommend. I have a band doing trad songs with vocals and harmony (working >on CD and refining writing and arranging), but have tendency to do >experimental stuff on my own. > >Looping: > >My "typical" loop trip is using a VG8 into a JamMan and Vortex, sometime >synced to an MC303. I was recently given a beautifyl kalimba which I've >looped along with an African drum for some fey World music soundz. > >I am a huge fan of Logic Audio and spend lots of time working within that >environment working on captured loops and adding improv guitar or K2000 >tweaks. > >Thanks for all the cool recommends for techniques and discs. > >Great list! > > > > > >Neil >ngold@imagina.com >Portland, OR USA > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 09:26:08 -0800 From: "Matt McCabe" To: Subject: Re: Logic Audio Users Message-Id: <199711201716.JAA27183@gw1.bi-tech.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > From: G. Peterson > Hi all, I am considering purchasing Logic Audio > recording/sequencing system(software and card) for windows 95 > I would be very interested to hear any feed back, good or bad from users. I've been using Logic Audio for a little over 2 years now. I love it!! It's a little intimidating to learn at first but once you figure a few things out it's really quite simple to use. > As I am mainly an anolgue type guy (guitars and old pedals), one of my > concerns is being able to process some of the tracks through some older > funky outboard effects at mixdown. You'll probably want to invest in a mixer to do this effectively. I use a Mackie 1604 at home, but anything will work. My soundcard only has two outputs, but by panning vocals to the right and everything else to the left I'm able to process the vocals separately. Of course, this arrangement is pretty limiting if you are doing a full blown mix but it can be made to work. > Someone suggested Logic Audio as it has 8 outs which should make > thispossible for me. Emagic's soundcard is called Audiowerk 8 (retails for around $650). It's 18 bit, 2 analog inputs, 8 analog outputs, stereo S/PDIF in/outs. You also might want to check out Event Electronics soundcards. Their top-of-the-line Layla soundcard is only $899 and has 8 in, 12 out and S/PDIF in/outs. Under that they have the Gina and one other card. I think the Gina is pretty comparable to the Audiowerk 8. There are tones of other cards out there as well. > Is this system worth considering or would I be better off (less grief) for > instance just running an Adat and a mixer for my home studio writing? Yes, the system is worth considering. Having the ability to rearrange your songs after the fact is wonderful for songwriting proposes. Just remember to get yourself a BIG hard drive...you'll need it. With an ADAT you'll sacrifice the ability to rearrange and cut and paste your songs, but gain the ability to take your tracks to just about any studio in the world without hauling in your computer and/or hard drive for mixdown or whatever. It really just comes down to how you see yourself working. Hope that helps! Matt --------------------------------