------------------------------ Loopers-Delight-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 209 Today's Topics: Re: I'm Volunteering!!!!!! [ Kim Flint ] re:Re: Occult loops [ "Bret Moreland" ] Top Ten again [ "future perfect" ] Re: Nerd Herd [ Kim Flint ] RE: Occult loops [ Dave Stagner ] RE: Sustainer, Forcione [ Michael Peters ] Parabnormal Was Occult Loop [ "Randy Jones" ] Is this note getting through? [ "Chris Darrow" ] RE: Is this note getting through? [ 7302 <7302@ssj.dtu.dk> ] Re: Parabnormal Was Occult Loop [ Kim Flint ] Re: Nerd Herd [ Rudy.Gaytan@ncal.kaiperm.org ] Re: butt looping ala Mr. Jones [ Tom Lambrecht ] Help - I want to unsubscribe but I c [ "Greg Rosenberg" ] need a jamman [ haganbr@jmu.edu ] Administrivia: Looper's Delight **************** Please send posts to: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Don't send them to the digest! To subscribe/unsubscribe to the Loopers-Delight digest version, send email with "subscribe" (or "unsubscribe") in both the subject and the body, with no signature files, to: Loopers-Delight-d-request@annihilist.com To subscribe/unsubscribe to the real Loopers-Delight list, send email with "subscribe" (or "unsubscribe") in both the subject and the body, with no signature files, to: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Check the web page for archives and lots of other goodies! http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html Your humble list maintainer, Kim Flint kflint@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 15:23:42 -0800 From: Kim Flint To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, Subject: Re: I'm Volunteering!!!!!! Message-Id: <2.2.32.19971120232342.00756234@pop.chromatic.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:55 PM 11/20/97 -0800, Matt McCabe wrote: >Now, both Stephen Goodman and Eric Fischer have volunteered their services >to get this project going. Assuming there isn't a major uprising at this >suggestion, I would like to coordinate this project and delegate tasks to >those interested. With the end goal of completing this project in a >reasonable amount of time. > >Kim? Are you out there? I really would like to hear your input on this >and get your official stamp of approval before proceeding (since you are >founder of this wonderful forum). My input is that you don't need my approval! If you want to make cd's, by all means do so! Make a web page for it, make real audio files, do whatever you like. LD is your place just as much as mine. (although it costs me a bit more....) My job is just making sure stuff get's uploaded to the website and the mailing list doesn't go down too often. It's up to you guys to make it all come to life! I *like* anarchy. If people think something is a good idea, and they want to go organize it and do it, then that's just fine by me. I don't have time to be a dicktator! kim _______________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Mpact Systems Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 97 16:55:06 MST From: "Bret Moreland" To: Subject: re:Re: Occult loops Message-ID: Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Travos asked: Oh geez, is this like that gadget in "Exorcist II"? --------------- I don't know, I did not read the book or see the movie. You tell me. I am pretty sure that there was no demonic activity in my experiments, though my parents might tell you differently ;-) bret ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:30:51 +1000 From: jlack@auran.com (Jamie Lack) To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: Bungle Good Message-ID: <01BCF660.2A823180@JLACK> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I would like to unanimously agree with Kim's post about Mr Bungle. Fortunately, I saw them in brisbane a year ago, and the show was crowded, but not a total sellout. (Who would have thought living in Brisbane would have it's perks...) The crowd was a diverse sample to say the least. In a strange way Mr Bungle are at the same time the antithesis of music and the icon of music. Also, like a lot of loopers around the place, they use a lot of interesting techniques to get their sound. The mix of sound I experienced at the Bungle concert was so clear, that I could hear every nuance from every musician. Not a small feat considering what they played and how often they do a musical about-face. If you have a chance to see them, do. BTW, they do a great cover of "Tower of Strength"!. I may as well throw in what I am listening to at the present......... Peter Gabriel - Best of (Will I ever stop listening to it?) I just purchased "EVE", but have yet to play with it... King Crimson - Great Deceiver Miles Davis - Bitches Brew Fripp and Eno - No Pussyfooting Tackhead David Bowie - Scary Monsters and Earthling Gorecki- Miserere Laurie Anderson - Bright Red Sepultura - Chaos AD Doug Anthony All Stars - ICON Regurgitator - Tu Plang (Kong foo sing - the tasty biscuit) Things I am looking at a lot...... Clouds (They loop too...) Computer Games (An interesting way of looping has occurred in newer computer games, the use of CD audio allows music to be played of the CD at certain times in the game. Music may be triggered by where you are in the game, or whatever. The end result is a whole lot of short, discreet pieces of music, that are all different, but will all flow on from the last (If it is good). Quite a challenge. A game worth checking out for just being beautiful is "The Neverhood", it has refreshing earthy music that makes you wonder why these ideas don't occur to you before) Jamie Lack jlack@auran.com http://www.auran.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 19:03:37 -0500 From: David Kirkdorffer To: "'djdowling@earthlink.net'" , Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: New DOD delay pedal etc. Message-ID: <30C4F9E5EBE1D0118B760000C0DD100F4109F0@MAIL> Content-Type: text/plain I've had the same experience. A rep at Guitar Center in Boston say they get asked about these new pedals at least 5 times a week... d -----Original Message----- From: djdowling@earthlink.net [SMTP:djdowling@earthlink.net] Sent: Saturday, November 15, 1997 7:34 PM To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re:New DOD delay pedal etc. I enquired at several muisc staores today about the impending release of the 8 sec. delay w/ reverse to no avail. One "proprietor" could not believe that the current 4 sec unit existed let alone something more advanced. Someone wrote that he saw the new unit in a catalog of some sort (?)...where was this and how might I track it down? In my quest I came across some info on a new BOSS unit with 4 minutes of sample and a digicard type set-up. I inquired if this was a floor unit or rack and the response was: "neither, it's a...box." Dave ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:31:37 -0800 From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: Re: Occult loops Message-ID: <01bcf614$d4066920$0d3bd4cc@CIS.compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Oh geez, is this like that gadget in "Exorcist II"? Not really, though the principle of attaining a trance state is consistent, I think. A better example of what is being talked about can be seen in a music video Bootsy Collins' band Dee-Lite did some years ago called "Groove Is In The Heart", about 2/3 way through, you see, in a darkened room, the two DJs in the group wearing strobe glasses. Stephen Goodman * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios EarthLight Productions * Get the Loop Of The Week Free! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 20:00:47 -0500 From: David Kirkdorffer To: 'Leonardo Cavallo' , Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Disco Volante Message-ID: <30C4F9E5EBE1D0118B760000C0DD100F4109F8@MAIL> Content-Type: text/plain Any James Bond readers out there remember the Disco Volante?? David Kirkdorffer -----Original Message----- From: Leonardo Cavallo [SMTP:LEO@DINONET.IT] Sent: Thursday, November 20, 1997 2:11 PM To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Top ten list with quotes >Disco Volante is some kind of strange collision of speed metal, ennio >morricone, and avant-noise rock. And patton's vocals are just great - so >adventurous and creative. It took a few listens to really grasp the album >and start to like it, a bit too much at first I think. But now I really >enjoy it. There's so much in there to discover. I've heard their rare live >appearances are great, but I've never managed to see one since they always >sell out around here. ah well.... > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:56:42 -0500 (EST) From: PJBMHB@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Nerd Herd Message-ID: <971120165640_1693912638@mrin43.mail.aol.com> "I have said it before and will say it again, I am not a nerd!" =-O PJ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 13:42:08 -0800 From: Kim Flint To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: I'm Volunteering!!!!!! Message-Id: <2.2.32.19971120214208.0075b7e8@pop.chromatic.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:56 PM 11/20/97 -0500, you wrote: >Kim said, > >>There was the cd project from long ago, >>but the guy organizing it disappeared. > >Disappeared? Have you tried to reach him recently? I haven't, no. I wasn't ever involved in the last cd project, so I don't really know any of the details. Just I haven't heard from Ray in a long, long time. >Matt, if you want to take care of this thing, you should try to contact >that guy anyway - his name is Ray Peck and he had >already collected a number of tapes for the CD, some money, and maybe he >had even done some work on this. Maybe you can continue where he stopped. He had people's money too? That's bad! We should be more active in finding him then. His intentions were good, just he got overwhelmed with some work project or something. He probably has it all sitting on a shelf somewhere. kim _______________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Mpact Systems Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 20:27:15 -0500 From: "future perfect" To: Subject: Top Ten again Message-ID: <01bcf61c$998e7aa0$acf0ffd0@future-perfect> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My recent listens (in no order) 1. David Torn -What Means Solid, Traveller? 2. Bach- The Art of the Fugue 3. Yes- Keys To Ascention 2 (the new studio tracks have some great playing on them) 4. Deep Purple - Purpendicular 5. Trey Gunn - The Third Star 6. Genesis - Seconds Out 7. King Crimson - Epitaph 8. Robert Fripp - That Which Passes (this scared the hell out of me when I first heard it..) 9. Haydn- Trumpet Concerto in Eb 10. Adrian Belew- Guitar as an Orchestra and an extra 11. Yes- Relayer (after opening for Patrick Moraz 2 weeks ago, he asked if we would play with him on his last song, an improv on a Gm chord..wow, a dream come true...) I've been forcing myself to record 1/2 hour improvs at home, all live, no overdubs- after the first few hours or so, I really have to strain to come up with ideas, I can't rely on tricks or patterns. I go out for a walk, look at the scenery, and try to think of new ways to approach things, like asking myself How do clouds sound? Bushes? What does green and orange sound like? I come up with at least an hour of new, fresh things this way, usually nothing like what I came up with before. Dave Eichenberger ********************************************************************* 'Future Perfect' - progressive art music - visit our website at: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/8082 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:39:43 -0800 From: Kim Flint To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Nerd Herd Message-Id: <2.2.32.19971121013943.0069507c@pop.chromatic.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 04:56 PM 11/20/97 -0500, PJBMHB@aol.com wrote: >"I have said it before and will say it again, I am not a nerd!" =-O PJ > rather than just stating it with no evidence to support your claim, and thereby arousing the skeptic in me, how about proving it by giving us some enlightening ideas about your approach to musical looping and what it all means to you? I'm writing up my list for nerd herd thinning season....make it good. :-) kim _______________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Mpact Systems Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 15:27:37 -0600 (CST) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: Occult loops Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII This makes me think of a particular musical experience, tho not loop-based (actually, I thought of it last night, so it's fresh). I was listening to an album by the Music Improvisation Company, a free improv group that included Derek Bailey, Jamie Muir (the brief King Crimson percussionist), Evan Parker, and others. I was alone, in total concentration, lost in the music. It built to a frenzy of sorts, then gradually quieted down into random pings, bleeps, scraping noises, etc. Those who know Derek Bailey know what I mean... At some point, I realized that sound was no longer coming from the stereo. The musicians had been silent for some time. I had been listening to background noise, thinking it was part of the music! Cars driving by, the heat kicking on and off, the cats scampering in the next room... all of these had become music. The musicians had integrated themselves into the environment, then left, and I didn't even notice. Kinda puts John Cage's trick into perspective, doesn't it? -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.net */ -Charles Fort ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 14:56:42 -0500 From: Michael Peters To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Sustainer, Forcione Message-ID: <199711201456_MC2-28EF-837F@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Michael P. Hughes asked, >do you Ststainer-equipped types out there get much >feedback of more than one note? When I tried a sustainer most feedback >happened around one note - so the main advantage over an Ebow was that you >don't have to hold it! no, that doesn't do it justice. It's true that (at least with the old sustainer that I have - there is a new one that's supposed to be better) one of the strings tends to succeed over the other ones, but it depends, sometimes you get several strings to vibrate. If you're used to an Ebow, and then get a Sustainer guitar, it feels very liberating. You can play freely without having to hold this thing in your hand, and this free playing in combination with the sustained notes gives you a whole new vocabulary of expression. The guitar reacts very differently, more as if you had a real feedback sustain from a loud amp behind you. Plus, you get all sorts of weird harmonic effects. This doesn't mean that an Ebow isn't a cool device - I still use the Ebow: you can do different things with it. If you can get hold of a Sustainer guitar, buy it - you'll love it. I wouldn't trade mine for anything. ___________ Michael Peters http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters HOP - Fractals in Motion ..."the only screen saver you'll ever want" http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/hop.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 21:40:27 -0500 From: djdowling@earthlink.net To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re:more lists Message-ID: <3474F452.34E3@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I hadn't checked my mail for a couple of days so I'm a bit out of the loop...(oh god, did I type that?)...on the top ten lists: here goes: This is current listening, not a definitive list: 1.Night Music - Joe Jackson (just saw Joe last night in a small venue, it was quite awesome. He played the entirety of his new album Heaven and Hell which I'm sure will be added to this list. 2. Earthling - Bowie (this has popped up a couple of times, I agree that it is excellent...his recent live show got me listening to it alot more.) 3. Cowboy - Erasure (what can I say?) 4. Quartet - Frissel (also enhanced by recent live performance) 5. Emancipation - 0+> (The Artist etc...) 6. Third Star - Trey Gunn (another excellent live show) 7. That Which Passes - Fripp 8. Test For Echo- Rush 9. Queen II (a fixture on the list) 10. For Samuel Beckett - Morton Feldman ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 15:36:49 -0600 (CST) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: Occult loops Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hmm... as long as I'm talking about exotic musical experiences, here's another one that stands out. One Halloween, my roommate and I decided to drop acid and go to a big party. At this point, a huge amount of cheap LSD was in town. Every time we turned around at the party, some friend or other offered us more. Needless to say, I have no idea how much acid we took (or how we got home, for that matter.. at least we were on foot). When we got home, we decided to put on an Edgar Varese album I had checked out from the library (Varese was a major inspiration for Zappa). By the end of the first side, we were totally terrified by this music. We looked at each other, scared to death, and flipped it over to listen to the other side. That was one of the most frightening things I ever did. I was too scared to NOT listen. After that, I learned to appreciate Varese on other levels. He was brilliant at imitating other senses with sound. One piece, for percussion and woodwinds, sounds EXACTLY like a migraine headache. Again, this will only make sense if you have migraines. But he caught the particular legato rhythm and background noise of a migraine, somehow. Having suffered migraines all my life, I admire the piece more than enjoy it. Another interesting Varese composition is a VERY early tape and electronics composition he made for the 1951 World's Fair (it was meant to be played in quadraphonic, in a specially designed room). After several listens, I realized he had made a sonic painting of a city street... cars driving by, people talking, birds fluttering, etc. -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.net */ -Charles Fort ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 18:36:22 -0600 From: "Randy Jones" To: Subject: Parabnormal Was Occult Loop Message-ID: <01bcf54c$53cb8e20$75047fce@user.texas.net> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello, OK I have to put in my idea on this: ( not for the squemish) I have one of those eyeglass thingees that blast your eyeballs with blinking red lights (both intensity and frequency variable). I believe its fast for energizer and slow for relaxation. Beta / Alpha whatever. I put them on and play the guitar, trying to sync the pulse with the drum machine. I want someone to make a midi connector to it! Sometimes when I get in a rut, I put them on and start up all the CD players I have and play five or six of my favorite guitar wangers at once and listen carefully as I spin around in my office chair. This is the thing though: I imagine different color and light intensities depending on the volume, rhythm, melody or whatever, following along or leading, as I play, sort of an body (arm/fingers)/brain loop. Now the kicker: Why can’t a vibrator(s) be hooked up in the loop, doing extensions (length/width) and speed variation also with the music. Then it could be body, brain, and butt looping, all to The Beat!.. I know its a little weird, but it would be hard to be complacent about one’s playing all strapped in and blaring away! Also imagine one for the wo(men) (alternate orifice) in your life. No longer would they just sit there with that bored (you playing the same lick over and over again??) look on their faces! The Butt Looper (you heard it here first) Prototype anyone? Randy Jones ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 97 10:05:43 PST From: "Chris Darrow" To: "Loopers" Subject: Is this note getting through? Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just a simple yes from anyone will do. I haven't ever seen my message come back to be (I've only sent three or so, only one with a reply) and so I didn't think it was supposed to. Thanks. chris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 04:18:50 +0100 From: 7302 <7302@ssj.dtu.dk> To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Is this note getting through? Message-ID: <7906A58B2207D011B4CE00A024CF8B4907093C@www.ihs.dk> Content-Type: text/plain Yes ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 20:10:55 -0800 From: Kim Flint To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Parabnormal Was Occult Loop Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain hahahahahahaha! When are you performing this Randy? I think myself and a few of my friends would like to go! kim At 6:36 PM -0600 11/19/97, Randy Jones wrote: >Hello, > >OK I have to put in my idea on this: ( not for the squemish) > >I have one of those eyeglass thingees that blast your eyeballs with blinking >red lights (both intensity and frequency variable). I believe its fast for >energizer and slow for relaxation. Beta / Alpha whatever. I put them on and >play the guitar, trying to sync the pulse with the drum machine. I want >someone to make a midi connector to it! Sometimes when I get in a rut, I >put them on and start up all the CD players I have and play five or six of >my favorite guitar wangers at once and listen carefully as I spin around in >my office chair. This is the thing though: I imagine different color and >light intensities depending on the volume, rhythm, melody or whatever, >following along or leading, as I play, sort of an body (arm/fingers)/brain >loop. Now the kicker: Why can’t a vibrator(s) be hooked up in the loop, >doing extensions (length/width) and speed variation also with the music. >Then it could be body, brain, and butt looping, all to The Beat!.. I know >its a little weird, but it would be hard to be complacent about one’s >playing all strapped in and blaring away! Also imagine one for the wo(men) >(alternate orifice) in your life. No longer would they just sit there with >that bored (you playing the same lick over and over again??) look on their >faces! The Butt Looper (you heard it here first) Prototype anyone? > >Randy Jones ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: 20 Nov 1997 18:34:54 -0800 From: Rudy.Gaytan@ncal.kaiperm.org To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Nerd Herd Message-ID: I am new to this list and am trying to find a used cheap lexicon jamman Help, rudy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 23:06:18 -0500 (EST) From: Tom Lambrecht To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: butt looping ala Mr. Jones Message-Id: <199711210406.XAA07349@cliff.concentric.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:36 PM 11/19/97 -0600, you wrote: > >Hello, > >OK I have to put in my idea on this: ( not for the squemish) > >I have one of those eyeglass thingees that blast your eyeballs with blinking >red lights (both intensity and frequency variable). I believe its fast for >energizer and slow for relaxation. Beta / Alpha whatever. I put them on and >play the guitar, trying to sync the pulse with the drum machine. I want >someone to make a midi connector to it! Sometimes when I get in a rut, I >put them on and start up all the CD players I have and play five or six of >my favorite guitar wangers at once and listen carefully as I spin around in >my office chair. This is the thing though: I imagine different color and >light intensities depending on the volume, rhythm, melody or whatever, >following along or leading, as I play, sort of an body (arm/fingers)/brain >loop. Now the kicker: Why can't a vibrator(s) be hooked up in the loop, >doing extensions (length/width) and speed variation also with the music. >Then it could be body, brain, and butt looping, all to The Beat!.. I know >its a little weird, but it would be hard to be complacent about one's >playing all strapped in and blaring away! Also imagine one for the wo(men) >(alternate orifice) in your life. No longer would they just sit there with >that bored (you playing the same lick over and over again??) look on their >faces! The Butt Looper (you heard it here first) Prototype anyone? > >Randy Jones > > > > Mr. Jones--noone can accuse you of insufficient imagination . . . Certainly something for the nerd herd to tackle . . . gentlemen (and ladies) . . . start your stepper motors .. . drone on~~~~~~~~~~~~~Mr. Lambrecht Tom Lambrecht hideo@concentric.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 22:00:50 -0800 From: Laurie Hatch To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Parabnormal Was Occult Loop Message-ID: <01BCF600.13B6A0E0.lahatch@dnai.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >....Also imagine one for the wo(men) >(alternate orifice) in your life. No longer would they just sit there with >that bored (you playing the same lick over and over again??) look on their >faces!... >Randy Jones You be hangin with the wrong chix, Randy! l. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 00:12:37 -0600 From: "Greg Rosenberg" To: Subject: Help - I want to unsubscribe but I can't get out Message-ID: <01bcf644$770979d0$080753d1@home> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have enjoyed being on this list the past few months - but since I divested myself of my Jam Man in order to midi-fy my guitar - I would like to take a vacation from this list. I may be a moron - but I have tried to unsubscribe 3 times - yes, following the directions - but to no avail. Can anyone help me out. thanks Greg Rosenberg gregory@itis.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 00:59:12 -0500 (EST) From: haganbr@jmu.edu To: Loopers Delight Subject: need a jamman Message-id: Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I had written a couple of days ago inquiring if anyone had info on where I could purchase a jamman for under list price. Thank you for your replies. If anyone else has any more info, please let me know. Thanks Haganbr@jmu.edu --------------------------------