------------------------------ Loopers-Delight-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 220 Today's Topics: RE: Looping with drums / editing loo [ matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias ] Jamentity (I like it!) memory [ Malhomme Olivier important [ "Matt McCabe" ] CD [ "Siobhan Canty" ] Hexagrams loop recording on the Web [ Warren Sirota ] Re: Looper CD direction --> importan [ "T.W. Hartnett" ] Re[2]: Looper CD direction --> impor [ Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) ] Looper CD [ "Stefano Voulaz" ] BMI/ASCAP (no looping content) [ "T.W. Hartnett" importan [ Michael Peters importan [ "Matt McCabe" ] Artistic Merit [ patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) ] Re: Artistic Merit [ "Randy Jones" ] Re: Looper CD direction --> importan [ Andre LaFosse ] Looper CD [ Doug Michael ] Administrivia: Looper's Delight **************** Please send posts to: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Don't send them to the digest! To subscribe/unsubscribe to the Loopers-Delight digest version, send email with "subscribe" (or "unsubscribe") in both the subject and the body, with no signature files, to: Loopers-Delight-d-request@annihilist.com To subscribe/unsubscribe to the real Loopers-Delight list, send email with "subscribe" (or "unsubscribe") in both the subject and the body, with no signature files, to: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Check the web page for archives and lots of other goodies! http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html Your humble list maintainer, Kim Flint kflint@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 03:05:47 -0300 From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: Looping with drums / editing loops Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > I'm not a drummer, nor do I play one on tv, but for recording ... >I find I can get the groove to >swing more if I start the loop with bass or piano, and layer the drums on >top of that. This lets me practice my drumming skills and jam a bit before >committing the drums to the jamman. The hardest thing about playing drums >to me is keeping the timing steady, but with the jamman I only gotta be >tight for a few bars and let it loop away. I keep it real simple so I have >room to embellish later as the loop progresses and builds. That seams to be an essential way! Ljubo, a really experienced LOOP delay looper tought me that years ago and I want to try, too, rather with simple piezo percussion instruments. > Right now in my looping, I am very much feeling the need to take that >next step, namely aquiring a method of storing and editing the loops into a >coherent form of sorts. I am not shure whether this is what you are looking for: I record the direct and the looped signal on 2 DAT tracks and then copy the good parts to the computer and edit freely in DECK. It allowes stacking of several soloparts that happened at different times over different parts of the loop and rebuilding of the looped part, also by using inicial not very loaded bits of the looping later in the piece to "come back". - loads of possibilities that I did not really explore myself yet... Matthias ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 10:52:25 +0000 From: Malhomme Olivier To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Jamentity (I like it!) memory Message-ID: <348296E7.193D@infobiogen.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks to the list, I could, after having bought a jamman someone located for me, buy memory as well. And not at the ridiculous price you pay them in france, through Lexicon dealers (it is, believe it, $350 for 4 x 1 meg, that's completely crazy!). For those ineterested, Vision Soft has some for $ 7,95 each... Talk about a minor price difference.... So, thanks to you all! Olivier Malhomme ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 07:47:25 -0500 (EST) From: ANET@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: domain name stuff Message-ID: <971201074723_-2109364584@mrin52.mail.aol.com> Kim; If you would like to E-mail me and send me your address, I would like to contribute $50.00 to whatever effort you deem necessary. By the way, I would like to challenge others to donate to Kim to continue this effort. We have a real jewel here. Oh, by the way if any of you have not heard Michael Peters Loops, take a little trip over to his Web site in Colonge, Germany, He has some very nice guitar loops for demo. Now someone was keeping a list of people that would like to donate to the 2nd CD project. Would it be possible to set up an FTP entry to "Loopers" to see the names? I think we could use this as a focal point for projects. Once things get under way, we would want to be able to look at time-lines on the projects etc. etc. See you guys later, have a good one! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 08:44:52 -0800 From: "Matt McCabe" To: Subject: Looper CD direction --> important Message-Id: <199712011639.IAA26643@gw1.bi-tech.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > From: ANET@aol.com > Now in setting up your suggestions on the net, I have been doing some > investigative work on credit card orders via the net etc., as well as > studying java etc. etc. A simple web page is no problem, but adding the > commercial end of it will take some dinero to get it started. In fact, there > seems to be a lot of plug and play apps that would allow website visitors to > put stuff into their shoping cart, credit card validators and even the > concept of a 1-900 number which could offer other services that would be > automatically charged to a customer's phone account. All this really depends on what direction the contributors want to take. Which is something that needs to be decided soon I think. Many people have already emailed me about getting involved. As far as credit card orders and 800 numbers, my company is already set-up to do this. > There will need to be project manager as well who sets up timelines and > deliverables > as well. This person would be the cheif overseer and whip-meister. Perhaps > the first > project died because there was no skin in the game. I believe that is me. I volunteered to help get the old CD project happening again but...well....you know the story there. Anyway, it seemed that there was enough interest in the concept to start working on the 2nd CD. So here we are. > What if there was an up > front > charge of $50 - $100 for music submissions? Or an initial group of investors > to get it off the ground. Say a $50 buy-in of which the first two or three > CDs are mailed to you free. This is the important part. We have two options on how we wish to proceed. First, we can limit distribution to list members and burn CD-Rs as we go (if someone on the list is kind enough to offer their services) or we can get 500 to 1,000 CDs manufactured. If we go with 500 CDs the cost will be approximately $1200 (2 color CD, 4 panel insert). My preference is to shy away from the "homebrew" CD concept and do something that looks (and sounds) professional. As mentioned earlier, we can sell the CDs from the Looper's Delight web page. I would like to see some of the profit go to Kim to help defray the costs involved with keeping this thing up and running. That being said, are people willing to pay approximately $100 to be involved with the CD? I was also thinking about approaching Alchemy Records and DGM for possible distribution of the project beyond our looping realm. If we decide to go this route we will need to make sure the quality of the project is top-notch. Any thoughts? Matt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:54:03 -0500 From: "Siobhan Canty" To: "Loopers Delight" Subject: CD Message-Id: <16534986400061@cfpa.org> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I guess I joined the list after the CD project was initiated. Is it too late to get involved? If not what do I send and to whom? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 08:57:55 -0800 From: Warren Sirota To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Hexagrams loop recording on the Web in RealAudio Message-ID: <3482EC92.B694A9FE@wsdesigns.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I've just put a vast collage, Hexagrams, up on the Web in RealAudio. It's a collection of lots of interesting moments, edited into what I hope is an interesting journey. It's about 70% loop-based, with the rest being mostly solo unlooped-but-augmented guitar, except for one section which is an edited version of my performance on a MAX program that I wrote some years back. It's a 26-minute piece, but it's in streaming audio so you don't have to download the whole thing to listen, and you can jump around in it with just a few seconds' delay at each jump. So, if you've got a 28.8 modem or faster, hop on over to http://wsdesigns.com/wsirota/hexagrams.html and give a listen. Thanks. -- Yours truly, Warren Sirota musician, programmer, writer http://wsdesigns.com/wsirota ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:07:15 -0800 From: "Matt McCabe" To: Subject: Re: CD Message-Id: <199712011701.JAA27237@gw1.bi-tech.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > From: Siobhan Canty > I guess I joined the list after the CD project was initiated. Is it too > late to get involved? If not what do I send and to whom? Don't worry. It's not too late!!! We are starting to work on a 2nd project. The details are still pending (see my previous post). I will probably be the person who will collect submissions. Matt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 97 11:13:49 -0000 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Subject: Re: Looper CD direction --> important Message-Id: <199712011709.JAA11470@scv1.apple.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >This is the important part. We have two options on how we wish to proceed. > First, we can limit distribution to list members and burn CD-Rs as we go >(if someone on the list is kind enough to offer their services) or we can >get 500 to 1,000 CDs manufactured. If we go with 500 CDs the cost will be >approximately $1200 (2 color CD, 4 panel insert). My preference is to shy >away from the "homebrew" CD concept and do something that looks (and >sounds) professional. > >As mentioned earlier, we can sell the CDs from the Looper's Delight web >page. I would like to see some of the profit go to Kim to help defray the >costs involved with keeping this thing up and running. That being said, >are people willing to pay approximately $100 to be involved with the CD? > >I was also thinking about approaching Alchemy Records and DGM for possible >distribution of the project beyond our looping realm. If we decide to go >this route we will need to make sure the quality of the project is >top-notch. > >Any thoughts? If we're going to dive in and do it the slick way, I'm in. I'd pay $100 or so to get on and get some CD's. If it's going to be a CD-R thing, I'm not interested. Travis ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:59:37 -0800 From: Chris Chovit To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: profile data Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Michael, I think I will go ahead with the format of the data, as it exists in: http://newdream.net/~cho/loop/profiles/profiles.log The field delimiter is two semi-colons and there is a new line character at the end of each person's profile. Note that this file does not contain the comments section. Those will be in separate files for each person. For now, they can be in a file called, for example: Michael Peters.comments Note the first field for the entries in profile.log is a number. We can disregard this for now..I can add them in later. If you can begin to transfer the format, it would be great--0 if not, no problem: I am going on a business trip for 1 week -- I will talk to youwhen I get back. Cheers, Chris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:39:02 -0800 From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) To: "Looper's Delight" Cc: Mike.Biffle@wj.com Subject: Re[2]: Looper CD direction --> important Message-ID: <000543A5.1264@wj.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part I'd be willing to go the $100.00 route as well. Now I have to get busy with some looping! -Miko ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Looper CD direction --> important Author: "T.W. Hartnett" at INTERNET Date: 12/1/97 11:13 AM >This is the important part. We have two options on how we wish to proceed. > First, we can limit distribution to list members and burn CD-Rs as we go >(if someone on the list is kind enough to offer their services) or we can >get 500 to 1,000 CDs manufactured. If we go with 500 CDs the cost will be >approximately $1200 (2 color CD, 4 panel insert). My preference is to shy >away from the "homebrew" CD concept and do something that looks (and >sounds) professional. > >As mentioned earlier, we can sell the CDs from the Looper's Delight web >page. I would like to see some of the profit go to Kim to help defray the >costs involved with keeping this thing up and running. That being said, >are people willing to pay approximately $100 to be involved with the CD? > >I was also thinking about approaching Alchemy Records and DGM for possible >distribution of the project beyond our looping realm. If we decide to go >this route we will need to make sure the quality of the project is >top-notch. > >Any thoughts? If we're going to dive in and do it the slick way, I'm in. I'd pay $100 or so to get on and get some CD's. If it's going to be a CD-R thing, I'm not interested. Travis ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:54:18 +0100 From: "Stefano Voulaz" To: Subject: Looper CD Message-ID: <01bcfe82$253a69c0$6902a8c0@voulaz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>I was also thinking about approaching Alchemy Records and DGM for possible >>distribution of the project beyond our looping realm. If we decide to go >>this route we will need to make sure the quality of the project is >>top-notch. >> >>Any thoughts? > >If we're going to dive in and do it the slick way, I'm in. I'd pay $100 >or so to get on and get some CD's. >If it's going to be a CD-R thing, I'm not interested. > >Travis Hey, this thing is getting really intriguing, especially if the chance of contacting DGM or Alchemy Records will become true. I'm looking at the list from a while, but I had no very much time to participate to the interesting talks (since I don't have internet at home, only at work) - sic! Do you think it will be possible for European loopers to participate to the project? If so, put me (and my $100) on the list! Again, a CD-R is not of much interest, since nowadays it's very easy to make one at home, just like tapes for the car, but I think this is not what we are looking for... Ciao! The Looping Uncle 8^)# ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 97 12:08:50 -0000 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Subject: BMI/ASCAP (no looping content) Message-Id: <199712011804.KAA35706@scv3.apple.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Is anyone on this list affiliated with BMI or ASCAP? What are the pro's and con's, costs, etc? Please respond via private e-mail. Travis Hartnett hartnett.t@apple.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:51:22 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg (Exchange)" To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: FS: Lex Prime Time $375 Message-Id: <215C1D5A0FFDD011B3CC00805FC18C291786B0@NTSRV2.LEXICON.COM> Content-Type: text/plain At full bandwidth the PrimeTime with standard memory will give you a whopping 128ms at full bandwidth(up to 12kHz) and 1024ms with bandwidth limited to1.5kHz. If the machine has the extended memory(most do) these delay times are doubled. Please let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything that I can do for you. Best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone +781-280-0372 FAX +781-280-0499 > ---------- > From: PJBMHB@aol.com[SMTP:PJBMHB@aol.com] > Reply To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Sent: Friday, November 28, 1997 10:35 AM > To: GHogan@lexicon.com > Subject: Re: FS: Lex Prime Time $375 > > how many seconds of delay does this puppy have? =-) PJ > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:54:19 -0500 From: Michael Peters To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Looper CD direction --> important Message-ID: <199712011554_MC2-2A3F-DAD8@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline > are people willing to pay approximately $100 to be involved with the CD? Yes. >we will need to make sure the quality of the project is top-notch. Agreed, but what *is* top-notch, and who decides which tracks to put on the CD, and which to omit? Method 1: We put somebody in charge for the project, and he/she decides. Or a small panel of loopers. Method 2: If we set up a project webpage for the CD, we could put realaudio samples of each track on the page, and decide democratically. This would mean even more work, but it would probably feel better to everyone involved. ___________ Michael Peters http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters HOP - Fractals in Motion ..."the only screen saver you'll ever want" http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/hop.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:54:30 -0500 From: Michael Peters To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: profile data Message-ID: <199712011554_MC2-2A3F-DAED@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline thanks for the profile file!! >If you can begin to transfer the format, it would be great I'll put it on my todo list, but I won't promise anything - it might take weeks until I find the time. Maybe sooner. ___________ Michael Peters http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters HOP - Fractals in Motion ..."the only screen saver you'll ever want" http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/hop.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:35:30 -0800 From: "Matt McCabe" To: Subject: Re: Looper CD direction --> important Message-Id: <199712012129.NAA32642@gw1.bi-tech.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Michael Peters >> we will need to make sure the quality of the project is top-notch. > Agreed, but what *is* top-notch, and who decides which tracks to put on the > CD, and which to omit? > Method 1: We put somebody in charge for the project, and he/she decides. Or > a small panel of loopers. > Method 2: If we set up a project webpage for the CD, we could put realaudio > samples of each track on the page, and decide democratically. This would > mean even more work, but it would probably feel better to everyone > involved. I was actually thinking of enlisting the help of a panel of 5 or so loopers. I certainly don't want to be solely responsible for narrowing things down. Your idea of posting realaudio files on the web page is intriguing. Yes, it would be a lot more work but would it be more "fair." Perhaps a happy medium would be to nominate panel members from Looper's Delight and then vote on the nominees. Matt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:59:41 +0200 From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Artistic Merit Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Having been one of the quieter members on this list long enough to have jumped in to the first CD project I'd like to share a few thoughts on CD Project #2. First: I am interested. My submission would be from Fingerpaint, a guitar duo driving multiple synths, effects and 5 jam men, one RDS 8000, one vortex, and an occassional short loop on a LXP-5 and or an Eventude H3000. We have access to a Tascam DA 38 for recording purposes. Second: Having recently read through all the posts concerning our listening habits, I'm a bit concerned about any individual or group having the final say on submissions. Are we representing "Looping" as an evolving form which may have "music" that some or perhaps all of us on this list do not like? We are a diverse group and should aim to celebrate this in a collection of looping. If so, I think if a member has a submission of a piece on an appropriate recording medium( I assume DAT) that is of the necessary recording quality; and this member is willing to put up the ante ($100), then they should be in. Third: Having seen how long the first project has taken to come to fruition, I would like to propose making the payments of the ante in installments as progress is made on the project. Ray has not cashed my check and in no way appears to have been in it for the money. But I think, it may be prudent to proceed with caution. This would minimize hurt feelings, etc...... Many thanks to Matt for volunteering to undertake this mission. Peace, Patrick *** *** ** Fingerpaint http://www.his.com/~patrick/FNGP.html *** ** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 18:22:19 -0600 From: "Randy Jones" To: Subject: Re: Artistic Merit Message-ID: <01bcfdef$2f72e040$673163d1@user.texas.net> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wow You mean I might have a chance to be on a CD??? I suck (even my own daughter says so) "Dad, I was wondering Why, uh if you've been playing the guitar for thiry years and all, uh, how come you can't play as good as Tim who's only been playing since last summer?" Of course she is young and doesn't understand the PHILOSOPHY OF LOOPING (i.e. playing the same thing over and over again-. Remember, these looping machines are new, in the old days, we had to spend precious practice hours actually playing the damn thing over and over again). Anyway, I got an extra hundred bucks if I can be on the CD w/ Matthias! It'll blow my daughter's mind! :-). Democracy, ain't it great! Randy Jones -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Smith To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Monday, December 01, 1997 5:44 PM Subject: Artistic Merit >Having been one of the quieter members on this list long enough to have >jumped in to the first CD project I'd like to share a few thoughts on CD >Project #2. > >First: I am interested. My submission would be from Fingerpaint, a guitar >duo driving multiple synths, effects and 5 jam men, one RDS 8000, one >vortex, and an occassional short loop on a LXP-5 and or an Eventude H3000. >We have access to a Tascam DA 38 for recording purposes. > >Second: Having recently read through all the posts concerning our >listening habits, I'm a bit concerned about any individual or group having >the final say on submissions. Are we representing "Looping" as an evolving >form which may have "music" that some or perhaps all of us on this list do >not like? We are a diverse group and should aim to celebrate this in a >collection of looping. If so, I think if a member has a submission of a >piece on an appropriate recording medium( I assume DAT) that is of the >necessary recording quality; and this member is willing to put up the ante >($100), then they should be in. > >Third: Having seen how long the first project has taken to come to >fruition, I would like to propose making the payments of the ante in >installments as progress is made on the project. Ray has not cashed my >check and in no way appears to have been in it for the money. But I think, >it may be prudent to proceed with caution. This would minimize hurt >feelings, etc...... > >Many thanks to Matt for volunteering to undertake this mission. > >Peace, > >Patrick > > > *** *** ** Fingerpaint http://www.his.com/~patrick/FNGP.html *** ** > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 16:58:49 -0800 From: Andre LaFosse To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Looper CD direction --> important Message-ID: <34835D49.4904@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Matt McCabe wrote: > I was also thinking about approaching Alchemy Records and DGM for possible > distribution of the project beyond our looping realm. If we decide to go > this route we will need to make sure the quality of the project is > top-notch. I have doubts about DGM being a viable candidate for this. As far as I can tell, the label is set up just about entirely for Robert Fripp and his direct musical acquaintances; everyone on the label has some sort of King Crimson/Guitar Craft affiliation. I sent e-mail to the DGM address about a year or two ago to seek permission to send a demo tape, and never recived a reply. E-mails I exchanged with both Bill Forth (or Ten Seconds) and Mark Perry (the former head of DGM's American distributor, Possible Productions) seemed to confirm that the label's pretty much the exclusive terrain of Fripp and company. The other "problem" (actually more of an ideosyncrasy) with regards to DGM is that Fripp has basically stated (or at least did once before in an interview given during the formative period of DGM) that he doesn't feel a need to advertise the label's roster, since there's an already-established Fripp/Crimson fan base which he feels is active and curious enough to seek out the label's wares of their own accord. (Or at least, he felt confident that the music would be heard since there were people out there who would actively seek the label's releases out). I think it's fair to say that the audience for the DGM output is very likely limited almost exclusively to King Crimson fans; I don't think I've ever seen an ad for anything on DGM, come to think of it. You should definitely try to contact them anyway, if only to see what sort of reply you might get; my information may be outdated or inaccurate. But assuming that even some of the above is relevant, I doubt that DGM would be a viable home for a Looper's Delight CD. But check it out! And good luck. --Andre ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 21:45:42 -0500 From: "Julia & Dave" To: "Looper's Delight" Subject: Vortex for sale Message-Id: <199712020242.VAA26262@mail.colba.net> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I was at this store today: http://www.generation.net/~musicr/Txpedall.htm The unit in question is in perfect condition w/foot switch and manual. Later, D 4 V 1 D K R 1 5 T 1 4 N jndk@colba.net http://www.total.net/~alien8/Kristian.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 19:58:51 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Michael To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Looper CD Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, Michael Peters wrote: > > are people willing to pay approximately $100 to be involved with the CD? > >we will need to make sure the quality of the project is top-notch. > > Agreed, but what *is* top-notch, and who decides which tracks to put on the > CD, and which to omit? > > Method 1: We put somebody in charge for the project, and he/she decides. Or > a small panel of loopers. > > Method 2: If we set up a project webpage for the CD, we could put realaudio > samples of each track on the page, and decide democratically. This would > mean even more work, but it would probably feel better to everyone > involved. Hello, Count me in for the Looper's CD along with the $100.00 to get it done. There is a very good article on doing a project like this (CD over the internet) in the latest Keyboard magazine - Janurary 1998. The article describes the internet compilation CD "Giant Tracks." It ended up being completed in a very professional way, many people contributed their talents and they did the web site thing with samples of each tune. There is included a breakdown of costs and they actually sold enough CD's to make a little profit. Anyways I'll check to see if this article is on the Keyboard mag web site. Doug Michael --------------------------------