------------------------------ Loopers-Delight-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 222 Today's Topics: Easy control [ mike barman ] Re: double CD [ Kim Flint ] Re: Re[2]: The 2nd CD project. [ pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Michael Pyc ] Re: double CD [ Edward_Chang@mail.amsinc.com ] Re: double CD [ Walt Blackler ] Requested quote source,Mr.bungle,new [ ZeplinSoup@aol.com ] Re: Looper CD [ Joe Cavaleri To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Easy control Message-Id: <199712021826.MAA17543@netnet1.netnet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This is a little tip ,or somthing, it makes looping with a Jamman easier. I'm not sure if anyone else out there hates the lexicon pedal but I personaly think they just dont feel right. (hard to use without a pedal board cause there lite, and the pedals are close together if you have big feet) So about three years ago I tried somthing. The conection is just trs so I took the dual sustain pedal from an electric piano (You know one of the nice metal heavy squeezy on your foot one's) and tryed this I'll never go back to using those three inch little factory boxes again. It realy take your mind off finding the floor box and back to the playing. (ok maybe thats takeing it a little far but its a comfortable change in the right direction. just thought I'd share. Mike. :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:27:21 -0800 From: Kim Flint To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: double CD Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" How about if we just do a cd on some regular basis, like every 4-6 months or something? Might make it easier to manage the project than trying to do it all at once, and then there is not the pressure to get everyone in on the first one. That would also allow for somewhat longer tracks. If someone doesn't get on this one, there's always the next one. Then maybe we could start doing themed versions after a while, and a "best of" which should rocket up the charts.... kim At 9:48 AM -0800 12/2/97, Matt McCabe wrote: >I just did a quick head count. So far 29 people have indicated that they >wish to be involved in the project. A double CD release would give us 148 >minutes to work with or about 5 minutes each. > >Matt ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:40:37 GMT From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Michael Pycraft Hughes, PhD) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: The 2nd CD project. Message-Id: <1160.199712021940@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >My estimates were based on a cost of $1200 for 500 CDs. With 12 submitters >the cost per person is $100...which seemed reasonable and do-able to me. >That being said, we could cut a few corners, lower the cost and the need >for 12 submitters, and hopefully keep the cost around $100 each. For >instance, we could go with a 2 panel booklet instead of 4, b&w instead of >color, etc. If the average length of a CD is 72min (I know it's longer but bear with me), this works out at $100 for 6 min (or 28c/sec!)... I think no track should exceed 10 minutes, just to stop one player dominating the CD. >I'm sure we would all like to hear what everyone is up to BUT I think some >of us would also like to have a project pay for itself (marketable slick >product). How about a "flagship" CD plus a "everyone together", not-as-slick double TAPE (ie much cheaper) with everyone? If everybody knew what everyone else was doing, people would be more willing to form "cliques" of music which would sit well together and do it themselves. Hey! Tape tree! Michael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 97 14:26:00 EST From: Edward_Chang@mail.amsinc.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: double CD Message-Id: <9711028811.AA881103710@mail.amsinc.com> I'd like to contribute a piece, maybe as short as 2 minutes. Another option to consider would be collaborations. Trenkel? I think we've got some stuff in the vaults. In any case, 30 people would produce $3000 at $100 a person. Maybe it could be a triple CD ;>. ed chang (Embedded image moved to file: PIC001.PCX) Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com at AMS-Internet on 12/02/97 12:58:00 PM To: Edward Chang cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com at AMS-Internet@ccmail Subject: double CD >Message was resent -- Original recipients were: To: "Loop List" ------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------- I just did a quick head count. So far 29 people have indicated that they wish to be involved in the project. A double CD release would give us 148 minutes to work with or about 5 minutes each. Matt (See attached file: RFC822.TXT) Received: from ams.amsinc.com by mail.amsinc.com (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) ; Tue, 02 Dec 97 12:57:07 EST Return-Path: Received: from ferret (ferret.slip.net) by ams.amsinc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18609; Tue, 2 Dec 97 12:56:32 EST Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.73 #8) id 0xcwXy-0001Ov-00; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:55:46 -0800 Message-Id: <199712021743.JAA14782@gw1.bi-tech.com> From: "Matt McCabe" To: "Loop List" Subject: double CD Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:48:37 -0800 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 Resent-Message-Id: <"xfVhgB.A.P_.hrEh0"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1676 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: Edward_Chang@mail.amsinc.com Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:55:46 -0800 The following is an attached File item from cc:Mail. It contains information that had to be encoded to ensure successful transmission through various mail systems. To decode the file use the UUDECODE program. --------------------------------- Cut Here --------------------------------- Attachment converted: Macintosh HD:PIC001.PCX 12/02/97 02-42 P 1 (????/----) (00021650) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:24:19 -0500 From: Walt Blackler To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: double CD Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Count me in too! I'll pay the $100... >I just did a quick head count. So far 29 people have indicated that they >wish to be involved in the project. A double CD release would give us 148 >minutes to work with or about 5 minutes each. > >Matt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 18:19:05 -0500 (EST) From: ZeplinSoup@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Requested quote source,Mr.bungle,new vortex Message-ID: <971202181904_-1205711690@mrin39> I am very sorry that I did not respond any sooner...I was putting it off because I wanted to devote extra attention to it...thank you for the feedback regarding the classics + by the way My favorite song on the Mr.Bungle "disco violante" is #8 that ma meeshooka groove...excellent@ !! the book is called "the music lover's quotation book, A lyrical comanion" compiled by Kathleen Kimball I bought it at a stray bookstore at Jacksonville beach in Florida... it is published by:::::Sound and Vision Toronto it is a Fantastic book.heres a few more from it:: "Most people think of music as an art. But in reality music partakes of both art and science... every time a printed score is brought to life it has to re-created through different sound machines called music instruments" Edgar Varese "genius is talent in which character makes itself heard" Ludwig Wittgenstein "Creativity is harnessing universality and making it flow through your eyes... The greatest happiness in life is to be truely and consistently creative. Peter Koestenbaum (who?) " A nation creates music- the composer only arranges it." Mikhail Glinka "doh!" Homer Simpson ] ahh well hope this helps.... thanks to the guys for alerting the new Vortexessssss(an "investment better than stocks!") I got the last one..H e took off $35 cause there was no manual But never fear Loopers delight was here for me! any Vortex(*!)+Jamman tips would be appreciated ;o) see ya Reeve Martin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 16:05:05 -0800 From: Joe Cavaleri To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Looper CD Message-Id: <2.2.32.19971203000505.006bf480@svars1.simi-valley.ate.slb.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Just a thought. Although I may not be able to contribute at this time. A fair way to determine cost per looper may be $'s per minute. If a run of 500 CD's cost $1200 and the total run time per CD is approx. 70 min. each person would be charged $17.00 per min. One reason for this is like most people on this list I "assume" that most loop generated music tends be be of greater length then three minutes. Anyway my two cents. joe At 08:37 AM 12/2/97 -0800, you wrote: >> From: Henry Throop > >> o Submissions were limited to one per person, and mostly fixed at 3 >minutes. >> Everyone who sent in a tape ended up on the CD. Most of the people >> on the disc ended up bought multiple copies, so there was no additional >> 'submission fee.' >> >> o ~ 500 discs were pressed at first and sold for $15 each, to >list-members >> and through a music store one member runs. I believe they're all sold >> out now. > >Who ended up paying for the CDs since no money was collected up front? > >Matt > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 18:01:17 -0500 From: Michael Peters To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: quintuple CD Message-ID: <199712021802_MC2-2A77-129@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Kim: >How about if we just do a cd on some regular basis, like every 4-6 months >or something? Might make it easier to manage the project than trying to do >it all at once, and then there is not the pressure to get everyone in on >the first one. That would also allow for somewhat longer tracks. If someone >doesn't get on this one, there's always the next one. Then maybe we could >start doing themed versions after a while, and a "best of" which should >rocket up the charts.... sounds like a very good idea. By now so many people have expressed their interest (some of them not happy with a 5-minute-limit) that not even a double CD would be room enough. I'd vote for a single CD with an average length of 5-6 minutes. (No problem to me because many of the improvised tracks that I've done are 5-6 minutes ). Let's just start with a first CD. If it works out ok, we can always do a second and third one. One other thing: If we want this to be a commercial success, how about asking somebody famous (like Torn) to contribute a short clip. (cries of disgust) Ok, ok, this is a stupid marketing trick, and of course we *are* all fine enough musicians and our music can stand for itself ... it was just an idea. What do you think? (I'm sure Torn would contribute one of his cool loops which are only available on expensive CDROMs.) ___________ Michael Peters http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters HOP - Fractals in Motion ..."the only screen saver you'll ever want" http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/hop.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:31:40 -0800 From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: double CD Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ed chang writes: > I'd like to contribute a piece, maybe as short as 2 minutes. Another > option to consider would be collaborations. Trenkel? I think we've got > some stuff in the vaults. That's true, there's a piece from the fabled lost minus/blindfold sessions that is rather loopadelic and runs about 2.5 minutes. I'm game if you are... I've been keeping quiet on this thread because I don't want to commit to something I can't complete, but, as I'm starting to see the faintest glimmers of light at the end of the current tunnel of work, buying/remodelling a house, here goes... I have a dat machine, the means to get stuff from dat to computer fully digitally, a cd-burner, the usual mastering and editing software tools, and a reasonable amount of experience, ie, I'm not a professional $100/hr mastering engineer, but I do spend a lot of time doing this kind of stuff and my customers say I don't suck. I'm willing to donate my equipment and time to this project if (and only if) it happens after the middle of January. Of course, I won't be offended if someone else steps in either... later, dt ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:51:36 -0800 From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, Mike.Biffle@wj.com, Joe Cavaleri Subject: Re[2]: Looper CD Message-ID: <00055E3E.1264@wj.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part This $ per minute idea sounds pretty good to me. I hope it doesn't cause any clock watching anxieties during loop creation! Miko ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Looper CD Author: Joe Cavaleri at INTERNET Date: 12/2/97 4:05 PM Just a thought. Although I may not be able to contribute at this time. A fair way to determine cost per looper may be $'s per minute. If a run of 500 CD's cost $1200 and the total run time per CD is approx. 70 min. each person would be charged $17.00 per min. One reason for this is like most people on this list I "assume" that most loop generated music tends be be of greater length then three minutes. Anyway my two cents. joe At 08:37 AM 12/2/97 -0800, you wrote: >> From: Henry Throop > >> o Submissions were limited to one per person, and mostly fixed at 3 >minutes. >> Everyone who sent in a tape ended up on the CD. Most of the people >> on the disc ended up bought multiple copies, so there was no additional >> 'submission fee.' >> >> o ~ 500 discs were pressed at first and sold for $15 each, to >list-members >> and through a music store one member runs. I believe they're all sold >> out now. > >Who ended up paying for the CDs since no money was collected up front? > >Matt > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:17:13 -0500 From: "Jesse Kudler" To: Subject: Re: Looper CD Message-ID: <01bcff80$cde0f4a0$224c8581@jkudler.stu.wesleyan.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I admittedly haven't been following this thread too closely, but the prices estimated seem pretty damn high to me. $1200 for 500 CD's? You can get them for a lot less, do cheap but creative packaging and stay well below a thousand. The $100 per person seems pretty steep to me. Maybe the administrator type can shop around for good deals and then split the cost among the participants. Also, does the $100 insure either a batch of CD's back or some money from sales? If we're gonna do this like a standard indie release, that would seem logical and fair. -Jesse -----Original Message----- From: Joe Cavaleri To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Tuesday, December 02, 1997 7:09 PM Subject: Re: Looper CD > > Just a thought. > > Although I may not be able to contribute at this time. A fair way to determine >cost per looper may be $'s per minute. If a run of 500 CD's cost $1200 and >the total run time per CD is approx. 70 min. each person would be charged >$17.00 per min. > > One reason for this is like most people on this list I "assume" that >most loop generated music tends be be of greater length then three minutes. > > > Anyway my two cents. > > > > joe > > > >At 08:37 AM 12/2/97 -0800, you wrote: >>> From: Henry Throop >> >>> o Submissions were limited to one per person, and mostly fixed at 3 >>minutes. >>> Everyone who sent in a tape ended up on the CD. Most of the people >>> on the disc ended up bought multiple copies, so there was no additional >>> 'submission fee.' >>> >>> o ~ 500 discs were pressed at first and sold for $15 each, to >>list-members >>> and through a music store one member runs. I believe they're all sold >>> out now. >> >>Who ended up paying for the CDs since no money was collected up front? >> >>Matt >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 20:48:50 +0200 From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Ground Control Manual Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A friend of mine has picked up a used Ground Control and needs a manual. Any one wishing to photocopy one for him contact Steev Geest: steev@aol.com Many thanks, Patrick *** *** ** Fingerpaint http://www.his.com/~patrick/FNGP.html *** ** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 17:34:28 -0800 From: Joe Cavaleri To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Looper CD Message-Id: <2.2.32.19971203013428.006ae33c@svars1.simi-valley.ate.slb.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi again.. Please don't quote me on prices, this is just a rough sketch. But for to keep things simple let's say that 10 people end up on the finished product. Each would then receive approx. 50 CD's each. joe At 07:17 PM 12/2/97 -0500, you wrote: >I admittedly haven't been following this thread too closely, but the prices >estimated seem pretty damn high to me. $1200 for 500 CD's? You can get >them for a lot less, do cheap but creative packaging and stay well below a >thousand. The $100 per person seems pretty steep to me. Maybe the >administrator type can shop around for good deals and then split the cost >among the participants. > >Also, does the $100 insure either a batch of CD's back or some money from >sales? If we're gonna do this like a standard indie release, that would >seem logical and fair. > >-Jesse > >-----Original Message----- >From: Joe Cavaleri >To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >Date: Tuesday, December 02, 1997 7:09 PM >Subject: Re: Looper CD > > >> >> Just a thought. >> >> Although I may not be able to contribute at this time. A fair way to >determine >>cost per looper may be $'s per minute. If a run of 500 CD's cost $1200 and >>the total run time per CD is approx. 70 min. each person would be charged >>$17.00 per min. >> >> One reason for this is like most people on this list I "assume" >that >>most loop generated music tends be be of greater length then three minutes. >> >> >> Anyway my two cents. >> >> >> >> joe >> >> >> >>At 08:37 AM 12/2/97 -0800, you wrote: >>>> From: Henry Throop >>> >>>> o Submissions were limited to one per person, and mostly fixed at 3 >>>minutes. >>>> Everyone who sent in a tape ended up on the CD. Most of the people >>>> on the disc ended up bought multiple copies, so there was no >additional >>>> 'submission fee.' >>>> >>>> o ~ 500 discs were pressed at first and sold for $15 each, to >>>list-members >>>> and through a music store one member runs. I believe they're all sold >>>> out now. >>> >>>Who ended up paying for the CDs since no money was collected up front? >>> >>>Matt >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 21:36:47 -0500 From: Theatre of the Mind To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: CD Project Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971202213647.006a913c@popmail.voicenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi All, I've been lurking around Loopers-Delight for some time now and this project sounds so exciting I couldn't resist. It looks like there is no shortage of Loopers out there. So, if there is a slot, please include me as a submitter. I can submit on DAT format. I prefer the more pro approach and am willing to kick in $100.00 or whatever. Three - five minute tracks sounds o.k. How about a theme for cohesiveness? A project every 4-6 months would be nice based on the interest this one seems to bring. Wav files or RA would be great on the LD web. Maybe a monthly feature on RA. Or, a colaberative. I've been looping for many years now. I started with a few old tape Echoplex's. I still have them and use them once in awhile. Now I'm more into sample loops. I like "flying in" my Jupiter-6 (among other things) into an RDS8000 looper too. It works very well for live performing. My stuff goes in and out of organic, ambient, space rock, a little tech to electronica. (just to through sum buzz words around) Thanx Kim, for creating LD and Matt for taking on this project. I'm not that computer literate so, you guys make a big differance. Later, Mark b. Theatre of the Mind 610.664.8809 --------------------------------