------------------------------ Loopers-Delight-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 225 Today's Topics: PC vs. Mac [ "Hogan, Greg (Exchange)" ] for sale VORTEX [ KULTBOX@aol.com ] FS:tc 2290 $1600 [ "Hartnett, Travis" ] Chew on this [ Dave Stagner ] Re: PC vs. Mac Joke [ "Stephen P. Goodman" ] IMPORTANT: Looper CD final word [ Marathon Records ] RE: a tape for Euroloopers? [ "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." ] Re: IMPORTANT: Looper CD final word [ Kim Flint ] RE: a tape for Euroloopers? [ "T.W. Hartnett" To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: PC vs. Mac Message-Id: <215C1D5A0FFDD011B3CC00805FC18C291786D6@NTSRV2.LEXICON.COM> Content-Type: text/plain I am very sorry for posting this with the wrong subject line. In the possibility that it might be overlooked by the person who initially brought the issue up I am posting it again with the proper subject line. My apologies if this repost offends anyone. > To any one interested in purchasing a PC or MAC for audio I suggest > that > you lurk on the two following email lists, gather up some questions > and > ask them of the people who are using these machines day in and day > out: > To subscribe to the PC-DAW-digest send a message with "subscribe > pc-daw-digest" in the body of the message to majordomo@missionrec.com > > To subscribe to the mac-daw-digest point your browser to > http://www.daw-mac.com where you will find subscription information. > > I strongly suggest using the digest versions of these lists as they > are > fairly high in the volume of posts. > > Best regards, > > Greg > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:44:37 +0000 From: David.Orton@mail.bl.uk (David Orton) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Oh good - another list; and a tape for Euroloopers? Message-ID: <000AF38A.001424@mail.bl.uk> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part I realise this in now so far behind the times it wont even qualify as fashionably late, but... Just bought the new CD by Gabriela, "detras del sol", featuring Bill Frissel, with yet another reworking of "Rambler" - very wonderful. Otherwise: this week, I have mostly been listening to: Jan Garbarek/Hilliard Ensemble - "Officium" (and I get to *see* 'em tomorrow, too) Steve Tibbetts - "Northern Song"; and "Cho" (with Choying Drolma) Paul Motian Trio - "Sound of Love" Martin Simpson/Wu Man - "Music for the motherless child" David Toop - "Screen ceremonies" and "Spirit World" Various - "Guitar on Mars" Brian Eno - "Ambient 1" and "4" Kronos Quartet - "Early Music" If anyone else is interested in a tape-based project, then I'd support Michael's ideas on this. May be easier to compile for European loopers? David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:51:10 -0700 From: Dan Chapman To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: vortex? Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi! I'm new to this list and would like to hear from anyone with experience with the Lexicon Vortex. I recently sold my two LXP1s and bought two used Alexs to replace them, but I'm also now considering a Vortex. I play synth, harmonica and vocals to write songs in my home recording setup. I've heard it demoed on guitar and it sounds great, but I don't play guitar. Anybody with experience with it on vocals, synth etc.? Thanks in advance. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:06:09 -0500 (EST) From: KULTBOX@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: for sale VORTEX Message-ID: <971204120608_1215622822@mrin52.mail.aol.com> mint with pedal. best offer. im in chicago ------------------------------ Date: 4 Dec 1997 11:08:05 -0800 From: "Hartnett, Travis" To: "Loopers Delight postings" Subject: FS:tc 2290 $1600 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; Name="Message Body" Just in case you have 16 large that aren't working too hard: FS: t.c. electronic 2290 Asking Price: US$1600 Condition: Mint Age: N/A Description: t.c. electronic 2290 delay, 4/8 sec. memory, includeds t.c.s 0050 5 function programmable footpedal, Absolute Mint in Box $1600.00,plus shipping. Serious Inquires Only Please Seller: Michael Mottsey, 914-336-4864 E-mail: mamsound@aol.com Location: GARDINER, NY Post Date: 12/4/97 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:45:32 -0500 (EST) From: LOLOREC@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Steinberger for sale Message-ID: <971204124531_-462109930@mrin51.mail.aol.com> Red, double cutaway stlye Steinberger with 1 humbucker and 2 single coil EMGs for sale @$825. This guitar was used on both Gongzilla releases "Suffer' and "Thrive" plus both of my solo releases, BON "To The Bone" and "Full Circle/Coming Home" and other releases. Also have an Ibanez AE 60S acoustic/electric for $425. This guitar was used on both PROJECT LO releases "Dabblings In Darkness" and "Black Canvas". For more info contact Bon Lozaga lolorec@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:00:04 -0500 (EST) From: andre To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: PC vs. Mac Joke Message-Id: <199712041800.NAA06588@shell.monmouth.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Remember, Macs are not very PC. (ouch!!) -andre ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:14:05 -0600 (CST) From: Dave Stagner To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Chew on this Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Here's a little quote from the Chemical Brothers off of Wired News (www.wired.com/news). It states my side of the whole sampling question pretty nicely... Of course, sampling other records, and even yourself, is nothing new, and the Chemical Brothers are certainly not the only band doing it. So, what happens when the tables are turned and others try to copy them? "If we get asked to do a soundtrack for an advertisement or film and we say no, they will just get some programmer to replicate our sound. It's made to be similar, they've taken the sounds and analyzed it, but it will never be good music without feeling or care," says Rowlands. "It's like some people go out and buy a certain guitar thinking that they can play it, and it's the same with computers and samplers. But you can't make the same music, it's not music without the emotion behind it.... You can't copy a feel, you can't sample emotion." -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.net */ -Charles Fort ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:15:48 -0800 From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: Re: PC vs. Mac Joke Message-ID: <002201bd00e0$a9f19ca0$123bd4cc@LocalHost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [Throwing day-old pastry] :) From: andre >Remember, Macs are not very PC. > >(ouch!!) > >-andre ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:45:04 -0500 From: Michael Peters To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: a tape for Euroloopers? Message-ID: <199712041545_MC2-2AB8-6225@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline David Orton sez, >May be easier to compile for European loopers? There are certainly enough European loopers among us, but compiling a European CD wouldn't be *easier* than doing an American/European compilation. (Any people from other continents? I think we have one looper >from Japan ...) I think this idea is ok, but maybe we should try to *start* with a compilation that contains a maximum of diversity, as Kim suggests. Then if more projects follow, one theme could be loops from different regions ... although I doubt that it would make any sense musically. ___________ Michael Peters http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters HOP - Fractals in Motion ..."the only screen saver you'll ever want" http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/hop.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:45:01 -0500 From: Michael Peters To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: 2nd CD -- Themes and Costs Message-ID: <199712041545_MC2-2AB8-6224@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline >Well, how about the Looper's Delight logo that >Tom Attix brilliantly created for us? >I think that would look splendid on a CD cover! yes, that was my first idea too. Maybe the CD should also carry a number - "Looper's Delight Vol. 1" (or #2, if Ray Peck manages to finish our first CD attempt first), making it clear >from the start that there is more to come. ___________ Michael Peters http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters HOP - Fractals in Motion ..."the only screen saver you'll ever want" http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/hop.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:06:31 -0800 From: Tom Attix To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: 2nd CD -- Themes and Costs Message-ID: <41DE695CE6FCCF11AD1000805FCCF8EC56BAA3@sf-01-msg.dns.microsoft.com> If you want to use the logo, I'll need to make a higher resolution version of it. Unfortunately, when I did the original, I didn't think it might be used in print (I did it at 72 dpi). So let me know, I'd be happy to do it. -Tom > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Peters [SMTP:MPeters@compuserve.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 1997 2:45 PM > To: Tom Attix > Subject: RE: 2nd CD -- Themes and Costs > > >Well, how about the Looper's Delight logo that > >Tom Attix brilliantly created for us? > >I think that would look splendid on a CD cover! > > yes, that was my first idea too. > > Maybe the CD should also carry a number - "Looper's Delight Vol. 1" (or > #2, > if Ray Peck manages to finish our first CD attempt first), making it clear > from the start that there is more to come. > > ___________ > Michael Peters > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters > HOP - Fractals in Motion ..."the only screen saver you'll ever want" > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/hop.htm > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:07:50 -0800 (PST) From: Marathon Records To: "Looper's Delight" Subject: IMPORTANT: Looper CD final word Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Greetings all! Matt McCabe, your friendly neighborhood CD coordinator, here. If you did *not* receive an email from me entitled "the Looper CD details are here!!!" according to my records you are *not* interested in participating. If you are interested, email me ASAP!! I'll only be posting occassional updates about the project to this list from now on. Feel feel to check out the following web page for information on what this project is all about. If you don't have web access let me know and I'll email you a copy. http://www.joshuanet.com/marathon/Looper_CD.html Matt ---------------------------------------------------- Matt McCabe Marathon Records Finley Sound Design http://www.joshuanet.com/marathon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 22:41:47 -0800 From: doug pieren To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: IMPORTANT: Looper CD final word Message-ID: <3487A22B.C58@e-z.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Marathon Records wrote: > > Greetings all! > > Matt McCabe, your friendly neighborhood CD coordinator, here. > > If you did *not* receive an email from me entitled "the Looper CD details > are here!!!" according to my records you are *not* interested in > participating. If you are interested, email me ASAP!! I'll only be > posting occassional updates about the project to this list from now on. > > Feel feel to check out the following web page for information on what this > project is all about. If you don't have web access let me know and I'll > email you a copy. > > http://www.joshuanet.com/marathon/Looper_CD.html > > Matt > > ---------------------------------------------------- > Matt McCabe > Marathon Records > Finley Sound Design > http://www.joshuanet.com/marathon > > Hello - My name is Doug and I am new to LD. I've been reading all this e-mail from you guys w/ interest. Please add me to your list of possible contributors to the CD project. I am primarily a synthesist/electronic musician. I often mix in some electric guitar and/or ethnic percussion flavors with my music. A lot of the stuff I do involves some degree of looping, which I accomplish thru synth programming, delays, sequencing and hard disk recording. A couple of years ago, I participated in a compilation CD of ambient/electronic music composed by artists from the Pacific Northwest. Each of us contributed $200 and got 20 CD's. I got 2 tracks on the CD.I believe 1000 of them were made and all or nearly all sold. The project was concieved by one of the artists, who put up most of the $ and got half of the CD's. He called for submissions and picked the trax he liked best. He was overwhelmed with submissions. The whole thing was a lot of fun for me and I still get a kick out of the fact that some of my music is on it. As a newcomer, I don't want to overstep my bounds, and it certainly sounds like this group is abundantly populated with talented artists, technicians and even a couple of comedians. But since I did got thru this experience, Here are acouple of things you might consider as the project develops: 1) Set some parameters for the contributors in terms of length, format, recording quality, etc. and be prepared to reject those that don't meet them. 2) You can reduce your costs by doing your own artwork - sounds like you have some loopers with such talents. 3) You might want to consider drafting some type of agreement for participants to sign which spells out how things are going to work. While this may be very unpopular with some, it really helps to avoid misunderstandings and bad feelings down the road. I work as a contracts administrator and put something together for the above project and would be willing to do the same here if you want to go in that direction. 4) Professional mastering is very important. I believe one looper indicated he had the tools and expertise to do this - if possible it would be a good idea to take him up on his offer. I know you've touched on most of this before, but I just wanted to get in my 2 cents worth (and introduce myself). Thanks ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 09:51:50 From: "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: a tape for Euroloopers? Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19971205095150.30671996@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I think this idea is ok, but maybe we should try to *start* with a >compilation that contains a maximum of diversity, as Kim suggests. Then if >more projects follow, one theme could be loops from different regions ... >although I doubt that it would make any sense musically. ...but of course it would! Look at the musical success of the Eurovision Song Contest! (This is a joke that non-europeans may not get) Michael "Norvege - nul points" :) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:45:13 +0000 From: David.Orton@mail.bl.uk (David Orton) To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: A tape for Euroloopers? (or indeed the world) Message-ID: <000AF9C4.001424@mail.bl.uk> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part I think my real emphasis is on a tape (cassette) compilation as opposed to a CD - the regional thing is secondary. This is partly to cut-down on fuss and finance. Rates of exchange, bank charges on cheques, etc get a bit complex for cross border transactions. Plus there must/may be those who'd like to exchange music, but can't stump-up $200 (or whatever). Instead, contributors send 10 mins (for eg) of their material, plus a blank C90 to a compiler (could be me) and a few bob for P&P. I'd be interested in this low-budget approach if anyone else is - or perhaps we would just continue to trade tapes individually, so its not really necessary? I'll get me coat... David ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RE: a tape for Euroloopers? Author: Michael Peters at Internet Date: 04/12/97 15:45 David Orton sez, >May be easier to compile for European loopers? There are certainly enough European loopers among us, but compiling a European CD wouldn't be *easier* than doing an American/European compilation. (Any people from other continents? I think we have one looper from Japan ...) I think this idea is ok, but maybe we should try to *start* with a compilation that contains a maximum of diversity, as Kim suggests. Then if more projects follow, one theme could be loops from different regions ... although I doubt that it would make any sense musically. ___________ Michael Peters http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters HOP - Fractals in Motion ..."the only screen saver you'll ever want" http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/hop.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 03:43:44 -0500 (EST) From: Mark Sottilaro To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Mac vs PC = Intellectual Self-Abuse Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Yeah-yee Kim! Way to go. Your my hero! Marry me? (just kidding) Mark Sottilaro (just getting done from an 18 hr Mac/Avid editing session) On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Kim Flint wrote: > For someone who doesn't like wasting time on pc vs mac arguments, you sure > have a lot to say! > > At 05:48 PM 12/3/97 -0800, Stephen P. Goodman wrote: > >I generally walk away from Mac vs. PC arguments since they're some of the > >most repetitive crap-throwing parties around. > > I think we can all agree on this point. If anyone else has anything else to > say on the subject that is unrelated to looping, please consider going > somewhere else, like alt.pc.vs.mac.oh-god-not-this-again. > > thanks, > > kim > (who gets paid nicely to design multi-media pc's and still won't use one at > home....:-) > ________________________________________________________ > Kim Flint 408-752-9284 > Mpact System Engineering kflint@chromatic.com > Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 02:36:58 -0800 From: Kim Flint To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Mac vs PC = Intellectual Self-Abuse Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 3:43 AM -0500 12/5/97, Mark Sottilaro wrote: >Yeah-yee Kim! > >Way to go. Your my hero! Marry me? (just kidding) hey big boy, that's not legal where I live. But I hear they're workin' on it in Hawaii, and I always wanted to live there....;-) kim >Mark Sottilaro (just getting done from an 18 hr Mac/Avid editing session) > >On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Kim Flint wrote: > >> For someone who doesn't like wasting time on pc vs mac arguments, you sure >> have a lot to say! >> >> At 05:48 PM 12/3/97 -0800, Stephen P. Goodman wrote: >> >I generally walk away from Mac vs. PC arguments since they're some of the >> >most repetitive crap-throwing parties around. >> >> I think we can all agree on this point. If anyone else has anything else to >> say on the subject that is unrelated to looping, please consider going >> somewhere else, like alt.pc.vs.mac.oh-god-not-this-again. >> >> thanks, >> >> kim >> (who gets paid nicely to design multi-media pc's and still won't use one at >> home....:-) >> ________________________________________________________ >> Kim Flint 408-752-9284 >> Mpact System Engineering kflint@chromatic.com >> Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 03:02:56 -0800 From: Kim Flint To: quail@e-z.net, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: IMPORTANT: Looper CD final word Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:41 PM -0800 12/4/97, doug pieren wrote: >You might want to consider drafting some type of agreement for >participants to sign which spells out how things are going to work. >While this may be very unpopular with some, it really helps to avoid >misunderstandings and bad feelings down the road. I work as a contracts >administrator and put something together for the above project and would >be willing to do the same here if you want to go in that direction. Oh, yes! excellent. I was going to say something similar. It occurs to me that if each of the 10 or so people on a given cd project have a quantity of cds they are trying to sell, and the primary market for these is probably all of the other people on the Looper's Delight list, we'll have some serious competition! There'll be price wars, dirty sales tricks, mergers and acquisitions. Horrors! So I had this idea: Each cd project could be considered a partnership. The participants pay some set amount of money which buys them an interest in the partnership and capitalizes the project. Additional partners would be the person contributing their services for production, and the Looper's Delight site itself which contributes its name and reputation and facilitates it all. When the cd is made, each partner gets some smaller number of free cds than has been proposed so far, and the rest are sold from a single vendor. (the Marathon records website appears like a good way) Proceeds from the sales are then divided among the partners equally, hopefully paying back their investment and making them a little extra. This way, everyone profits equally from the sales, there is no confusion about what to do if more or less cds are sold, and all can happily work together to promote and encourage sales of the cd. I guess the number of free cds for each participant could be areed upon by the partnership. So your contract experience could come in very handy for drafting some standard partnership contract for these projects. And it's suddenly dawning on me that Looper's Delight may have to become something more than just a name on a website if it is going to be receiving money, or I'll be getting a bit more friendly with the local IRS agents than I care to! hmmmmm..... So what do you think, would this be a useful idea? It seems like a more appropriate and legit business approach for this. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 97 11:37:51 -0000 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Subject: RE: a tape for Euroloopers? Message-Id: <199712051738.JAA35258@scv4.apple.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >...but of course it would! Look at the musical success of the Eurovision >Song Contest! > >(This is a joke that non-europeans may not get) On the plus side, it gave us ABBA. On the minus side, everything else was jaw-dropping crap. Travis Hartnett ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:11:33 -0500 From: Mark@asisoftware.com (Mark Kata) To: 'Loopers Delight' Subject: Loop Length Message-ID: <01BD017F.50D5B8A0@mark.asisoftware.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This may sound like a silly question since the trend is toward longer looping times, but what is your favorite length of loop? I usually gravitate toward an 8-10 second loop, however, there are times when I can barely make due with the 32 seconds provided by my Jamman. Occasionally, I find extremely short loops (under 500 milliseconds) to be fun, too. Mark Kata Mark@asisoftware.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:29:29 -0800 From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) To: "'Loopers Delight'" , Mike.Biffle@wj.com, Mark@asisoftware.com (Mark Kata) Subject: Re: Loop Length Message-ID: <00058CDD.1264@wj.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part I usually end up with something in the 4 bar / 16 beat range. That is probably around the same 7-12 second range you state. When I'm in delay mode is where I really get into longer time values. BTW, I'm a 32 sec JamMan user. -Miko ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Loop Length Author: Mark@asisoftware.com (Mark Kata) at INTERNET Date: 12/5/97 1:11 PM This may sound like a silly question since the trend is toward longer looping times, but what is your favorite length of loop? I usually gravitate toward an 8-10 second loop, however, there are times when I can barely make due with the 32 seconds provided by my Jamman. Occasionally, I find extremely short loops (under 500 milliseconds) to be fun, too. Mark Kata Mark@asisoftware.com --------------------------------