------------------------------
Loopers-Delight-d Digest				Volume 97 : Issue 230

Today's Topics:
  Looper CD: don't miss out             [ Marathon Records/Finley Sound Desig ]
  Re: Who's going to NAMM?              [ Kim Flint <kflint@chromatic.com> ]
  Re: Looper CD: don't miss out         [ Kim Flint <kflint@chromatic.com> ]
  N.A.M.M.                              [ "Eric R. Fischer" <efisch@artnet.ne ]
  Major Jamage                          [ John Michael Beard <jbstudio@flash. ]
  Re: Re:N.A.M.M show                   [ "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." <pycraft ]
  Re: FS:Echoplex $700                  [ Ahanning <Ahanning@aol.com> ]
  Proposal for the 3rd CD (Submissions  [ ANET <ANET@aol.com> ]
  Re: Major Jamage (Bela Fleck and oth  [ ANET <ANET@aol.com> ]
  Re: Looper CD: don't miss out         [ "Siobhan Canty" <siocanty@cfpa.org> ]
  Re: FS:Echoplex $700                  [ "Jim Taylor" <jtaylor@sccs.santacru ]
  Re: Proposal for the 3rd CD (Submiss  [ "Matt McCabe" <mattm@bi-tech.com> ]
  Re: Re: Who's going to NAMM?          [ KILLINFO <KILLINFO@aol.com> ]
  Re: N.A.M.M show, GEAR prices !!!     [ Andre Cholmodeley <andre@monmouth.c ]
  Cheap Used Gear Sources               [ Pat Murphy <pmurphy@gibson.com> ]
  RE: N.A.M.M show, GEAR prices !!!     [ "Ott, John" <John_Ott@ATK.COM> ]
  Re: Major Jamage (Bela Fleck and oth  [ George Henry <ghenry@bandanacompute ]
  Liaght Sound Dimension at SOMAR       [ Fred Marshall <fred@fredmarshall.co ]

Administrivia:
Looper's Delight
****************

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Kim Flint
kflint@annihilist.com

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:39:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Marathon Records/Finley Sound Design <marathon@joshuanet.com>
To: "Looper's Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Looper CD:  don't miss out
Message-Id: <l03102800b0b5c70c9c09@[205.138.253.63]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Many humble apologizes to the people I missed on the first go around.

If your name appears below, it means you are a "confirmed" contributor to
the Looper CD project and can 1) pay the $100 submission fee, 2) meet the
submission deadline, and 3) submit your material on CD or DAT.

If you are only an email address on the list, please send me your real name!!!

Matt

--------
Here's the list (it also appears at
http://www.joshuanet.com/marathon/Looper_CD.html):

ANET@aol.com <ANET@aol.com>
Bret Moreland <Bret_Moreland@maxtor.com>
David Kirkdorffer <Dkirkdorffer@exapps.com>
Doug Michael <dmic27@ccnet.com>
Doug Pieren <qual@e-z.net>
Frank Gerace <seahorse@us1.channel1.com>
Len Seligman <seligman@mitre.org>
Keenan Lawler <klaw@iglou.com>
Kevin<Fmplautus@aol.com>
Malhomme Olivier <malhomme@infobiogen.fr>
Mark B <ngc1275@voicenet.com>
Markus Reuter <mreuter@post.Uni-Bielefeld.DE>
Matt McCabe <marathon@joshuanet.com>
Matthias Grob <matthias@bahianet.com.br>
Michael Peters <Mpeters@compuserve.com>
Michael Preston <michpres@erols.com>
Miguel Barella <miguel.barella@poyry.com>
Mike Barman <eponine@netnet.net>
Mike Biffle <mike.biffle@wj.com>
Patrick Smith <patrick@his.com>
T.W. Hartnett <hartnett.t@apple.com>
Walt Blackler <whb4@cornell.edu>

----------------------------------------------------
Matt McCabe
Finley Sound Design
Marathon Records
http://www.joshuanet.com/marathon/



      

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:36:37 -0800
From: Kim Flint <kflint@chromatic.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Who's going to NAMM?
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19971212013637.008e23fc@pop.chromatic.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

ok, right, this was the original question, before we got sidetracked into
general bashing of the show itself. So who wants to do a looper get-together
at the show? I know damn well some of you are going. :-)

kim

At 07:13 PM 12/11/97 -0500, Pete Gilbert wrote:
>----Original Message-----
>From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
>To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
>Date: Thursday, December 11, 1997 05:31
>Subject: Who's going to NAMM?
>
>
>>The NAMM show is coming up again, Jan 29 - Feb 1.  Who's going? We had a
>>little Looper's convention last year. Small but fun! Who wants to do it
>>again this year?
>>
>>kim
>>
>
>my compadres, Wes and Steve, should be there playing Sticks and Zendrum
>and looping at the Zendrum booth (at least, I think that Wes will be taking
>his
>jamman). If you get a chance, stop by and say hi. My schedule won't let me
>make
>it to the left coast.
>
>pete gilbert
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________
Kim Flint		       408-752-9284
Mpact System Engineering       kflint@chromatic.com
Chromatic Research             http://www.chromatic.com

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:29:13 -0800
From: Kim Flint <kflint@chromatic.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Cc: "Looper's Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Looper CD:  don't miss out
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19971212012913.00d04490@pop.chromatic.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 04:39 PM 12/11/97 -0800, Marathon Records/Finley Sound Design wrote:
>Here's the list (it also appears at
>http://www.joshuanet.com/marathon/Looper_CD.html):
>
>ANET@aol.com <ANET@aol.com>
>Bret Moreland <Bret_Moreland@maxtor.com>
>David Kirkdorffer <Dkirkdorffer@exapps.com>
>Doug Michael <dmic27@ccnet.com>
>Doug Pieren <qual@e-z.net>
>Frank Gerace <seahorse@us1.channel1.com>
>Len Seligman <seligman@mitre.org>
>Keenan Lawler <klaw@iglou.com>
>Kevin<Fmplautus@aol.com>
>Malhomme Olivier <malhomme@infobiogen.fr>
>Mark B <ngc1275@voicenet.com>
>Markus Reuter <mreuter@post.Uni-Bielefeld.DE>
>Matt McCabe <marathon@joshuanet.com>
>Matthias Grob <matthias@bahianet.com.br>
>Michael Peters <Mpeters@compuserve.com>
>Michael Preston <michpres@erols.com>
>Miguel Barella <miguel.barella@poyry.com>
>Mike Barman <eponine@netnet.net>
>Mike Biffle <mike.biffle@wj.com>
>Patrick Smith <patrick@his.com>
>T.W. Hartnett <hartnett.t@apple.com>
>Walt Blackler <whb4@cornell.edu>

wow, great turn out! Looks like more than one cd! Are we going to start
plans for Looper's Delight Vol 3 then?

kim


________________________________________________________
Kim Flint		       408-752-9284
Mpact System Engineering       kflint@chromatic.com
Chromatic Research             http://www.chromatic.com

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:08:25 -0800
From: "Eric R. Fischer" <efisch@artnet.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: N.A.M.M.
Message-ID: <3490AAA8.372A@artnet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I will be going to N.A.M.M. this year and would welcome the opportunity
to meet y'all. Count me in. 
Eric R. Fischer

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 11:11:02 -0600
From: John Michael Beard <jbstudio@flash.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, listserv@maillist.voyetra.com
Subject: Major Jamage
Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19971211111102.006b3518@pop.flash.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I saw Victor Wooten, bass player for Bela Fleck, at a small club here in
Houston last night. He made extensive use of a Jamman. He used about equal
amounts loop mode and echo mode. He took a moment to explain to the
audience what was going on, to the few who might not have already noticed;
I think he tried to make sure that no one thought there was some sort of
"tape trickery" happening. He also made slight use of a sampler. It was
just him and a drummer, but the show never got "monochromatic". His bass
playing is amazing. I urge anyone to go see him if you get the chance.[it
was just 7 dollars!]
John Beard
www.flash.net/~jbstudio

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:10:24
From: "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." <pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Re:N.A.M.M show
Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19971212111024.3c772fee@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Tom:

>Michael, where are you ever going to hear a Vortex if there are no Dealers? 

Recording made by endorsers.  Demo CDs, or demo tracks on the covers of
magazines.  I have never played a Vortex, never seen one, but I have come
very close to buying one on a number of occasions.  Like most people in the
UK (well, lots certainly) I buy by mailorder.  However, if there was
somewhere I could go to try all the latest gear I might find it easier to
make that decision.

>Who is going to check the credit status and invoice and collect from every
>single consumer that calls up to order direct? What will shipping costs be
if >every unit is sold and shipped to an individual? Who will
repair/service the >units? 

Well, Musician's Friend manage it, and make a profit into the bargain...
...remove the middleman, take out that profit margin, help starving
musicians... ;)

>Guitar Center and their fellow retail establishments are exactly the right
>places to mass market the Vortex (or Boomerang, or Echoplex, or
whatever...) >because that's where guitar players go to buy gear. 

OK, in the US I guess.  Fair enough, point taken.  

>Limiting access to only those who can fly to LA or Nashville or Frankfurt
to >actually hear the unit, or selling it direct over the Internet (25
million >users, but how many of them are musicians?) is not the way to
launch a product, >and would not have saved the Vortex.

I suppose I feel it's strange because the European fairs, principally
Frankfurt but with smaller ones in the UK and I presume other countries,
have public days. One thing this allows is for the public to try kit which
is pretty obscure, and unlikely to appear in your next-door store.  Like
custom manufacturers - f.e. allowing people to try a Klein without spending
$2000!!!

>Maybe he/she needs to charge more for their product!!:)

Don't EVER tell them that!
The thing is, because the UK is smaller there isn't the need for a trade
show like that - a rep. can drive from one end of the country to the other
in 10 hours, so company reps get to deal directly with dealers at their
stores.

>I can't speak for Carvin, since my background is in retail sales and (now)
>manufacturing. When talking about US product for sale in the EU, you must
>include VAT, shipping, tariffs, etc. to the price. 

I know.  This is probably all sour grapes on my behalf, from someone left
out when you guys get into big gear discussions... sniff...

Kim:
>That's what marketing campaigns in magazines and in store clinics and
>displays are for. 

Sigh... store clinics with famous people.  I've heard about them...
Here it's The Marshall Roadshow - with Phil Hilbourne!  Who?  Exactly.

>At a tradeshow it's like this: An important dealer comes
>up. He's busy, got a lot to do that day, you spend 5-10 minutes discussing
>the products in the booth with him. He knods, says, "I'll buy 50 of those,
>100 of those, let's do the order now." Papers signed, he's gone.

Is this really not possible over the phone?  If they spend so little time
with the gear and can't touch it anyway, why bother getting them together?

>Then along
>comes some 22 year old who probably works in a shoe store. He asks detailed
>questions for an hour and a half, plays all the gear badly while others are
>waiting, and eventually wanders away and probably never buys anything at
>all. 

Ok.  I admit it.  That's me.   ;)

Michael

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 06:00:20 EST
From: Ahanning <Ahanning@aol.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: FS:Echoplex $700
Message-ID: <8e4ef673.34911946@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

We've got a "MARS" music store opening up in my area - anyone had any success
stories in haggling prices down at one of these?
likewise, am looking for a Jamman or preferably echoplex, as cheap as cheap
can be. Anyone know what sort of mark up (roughly speaking) List price for a
big-ass store might be over cost to them?
TIA
Alex 

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 09:38:29 EST
From: ANET <ANET@aol.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Proposal for the 3rd CD  (Submissions on TAPE) March 31st deadline
Message-ID: <32e76c71.34914c67@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

After having been a part of the 2nd CD project, I would like to make a
proposal for the  
3rd project.  Many folks out there appeared to be interested in submitting
tapes.  

If you are interested,  I would be willing to produce this project.  

Proposal:
1) We would follow the guidelines being established for the 2nd CD project.
2) After the final tape is mastered, we would submit to Marathon for cutting
the final CD. 
3) All submitters get a set number of CDs and or Tapes with the ability to buy
all subsequent pressings at cost.
4) The producer and Loopers-Delight receive stipends for their efforts.
(Goal being to help this web site to become self sustaining and to encourage
other producers to step forward)
5) 2,3 or 4 track  StereoTapes showcasing Looping and or Vortex highlights are
accepted.  Final Mixes being done by the producer.
6) $100 submission fee is required.
7) A request for artwork is made to the group of which websites are set up for
sampling and voting. 
8) Project time lines:

|Now----+March 31st tape submissions and selection process
|----------------------------+Web site design for all projects is set up.
             +------+ Production work for selections
|--------------------+May 1st Artwork submission
|-------------------+ May 1st submission for CD to Marathon
|-----------------------------+June 1st CD release
|----------------------------------------------------------------?Permanent
Web site maintainence
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------Orders
, copyrights, legalites if any.

9) Enjoy!!!!

Well, what do you all think?

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 09:49:53 EST
From: ANET <ANET@aol.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Major Jamage (Bela Fleck and others)
Message-ID: <430e35f1.34914f14@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Have you heard Bela with Sam Bush,Edgar Meyer, Mark O'Connor and Jerry Douglas
on the CD, Strength In Numbers?  MCA-6293

No looping, but major jamming.  I have never heard bluegrass come so close to
jazz and blues boogie/shuffle as this.  All the instruments are acoustic and
take on a phenominal blending of styles. 

Nuff' said take a listen to these guys, they are good! 

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:16:54 -0500
From: "Siobhan Canty" <siocanty@cfpa.org>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Looper CD:  don't miss out
Message-Id: <15163975700170@cfpa.org>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

My name was once on that list...I would still like to do it...Did I miss
something?  We are talking about the same project aren't we?


----------
> From: Kim Flint <kflint@chromatic.com>
> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> Cc: Looper's Delight <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
> Subject: Re: Looper CD:  don't miss out
> Date: Thursday, December 11, 1997 8:29 PM
> 
> At 04:39 PM 12/11/97 -0800, Marathon Records/Finley Sound Design wrote:
> >Here's the list (it also appears at
> >http://www.joshuanet.com/marathon/Looper_CD.html):
> >
> >ANET@aol.com <ANET@aol.com>
> >Bret Moreland <Bret_Moreland@maxtor.com>
> >David Kirkdorffer <Dkirkdorffer@exapps.com>
> >Doug Michael <dmic27@ccnet.com>
> >Doug Pieren <qual@e-z.net>
> >Frank Gerace <seahorse@us1.channel1.com>
> >Len Seligman <seligman@mitre.org>
> >Keenan Lawler <klaw@iglou.com>
> >Kevin<Fmplautus@aol.com>
> >Malhomme Olivier <malhomme@infobiogen.fr>
> >Mark B <ngc1275@voicenet.com>
> >Markus Reuter <mreuter@post.Uni-Bielefeld.DE>
> >Matt McCabe <marathon@joshuanet.com>
> >Matthias Grob <matthias@bahianet.com.br>
> >Michael Peters <Mpeters@compuserve.com>
> >Michael Preston <michpres@erols.com>
> >Miguel Barella <miguel.barella@poyry.com>
> >Mike Barman <eponine@netnet.net>
> >Mike Biffle <mike.biffle@wj.com>
> >Patrick Smith <patrick@his.com>
> >T.W. Hartnett <hartnett.t@apple.com>
> >Walt Blackler <whb4@cornell.edu>
> 
> wow, great turn out! Looks like more than one cd! Are we going to start
> plans for Looper's Delight Vol 3 then?
> 
> kim
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________
> Kim Flint		       408-752-9284
> Mpact System Engineering       kflint@chromatic.com
> Chromatic Research             http://www.chromatic.com
> 

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 07:32:00 -0800
From: "Jim Taylor" <jtaylor@sccs.santacruz.k12.ca.us>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: FS:Echoplex $700
Message-ID: <349158F0.6F7DBCD6@sccs.santacruz.k12.ca.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Ahanning,
Yeah, the cost on JamMan is whatever you can get for them, usually people who
have them know they can get 200 - 250 trade for them.  At Guitar Center, ( where
the guitar player in my band works in Pro Audio) they usually sell them ( if they
can get them) for 25 to 45 over their cost.
Again it depends on how much they get them for, and usually as a retro piece
people want quite a bit (if people sell them at all).  For a cheap one look in
the papers for someone to trade or who really needs the money.

Jim out.


Ahanning wrote:

> We've got a "MARS" music store opening up in my area - anyone had any success
> stories in haggling prices down at one of these?
> likewise, am looking for a Jamman or preferably echoplex, as cheap as cheap
> can be. Anyone know what sort of mark up (roughly speaking) List price for a
> big-ass store might be over cost to them?
> TIA
> Alex



--
Jim Taylor
LAN/WAN Specialist
Santa Cruz City School District
2931 Mission St. Santa Cruz, Ca. 95060
(408) 429 3848

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 07:59:21 -0800
From: "Matt McCabe" <mattm@bi-tech.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Proposal for the 3rd CD  (Submissions on TAPE) March 31st deadline
Message-Id: <199712121546.HAA19104@gw1.bi-tech.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> From: ANET <ANET@aol.com>

> After having been a part of the 2nd CD project, I would like to make a
> proposal for the  
> 3rd project.  Many folks out there appeared to be interested in
submitting
> tapes.  

I think it's great if you want to do another CD with submissions on tape. 
Although, and I just say this because I'm cautious, you might want to wait
and see if there is a demand for projects of this sort.  In other words,
will people buy the thing?  Just a thought.

Matt

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:04:11 EST
From: KILLINFO <KILLINFO@aol.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re:  Re: Who's going to NAMM?
Message-ID: <5bcab6b0.3491607e@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Kim,

Unfortunately I won't be able to make our little get together at NAMM again
this year. Wish I was, but I'll be busy puttin' out the next set of catalogs
at MF up here in Medford. Oh well, Maybe next year...

Have fun

Ted Killian

PS) I prefer the Nashville show anyway. Same gear, less big
hair/egos/attitudes and everything else on a more human scale.

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:21:15 -0500
From: Andre Cholmodeley <andre@monmouth.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: N.A.M.M show, GEAR prices !!!
Message-Id: <199712121641.LAA03985@shell.monmouth.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> 
> >lot of manufacturers don't want the general public to know what price
> 
> >they're selling their products to retailers for.....ocaasionaly
criticized for being exclusionary to
> the consumer. In fact, it is sometimes characterized as a kind of Callous
> Cabal of Capitalistic Chuckleheads scheming up ever more devious ways to
> separate the starving musician from his/her last farthing. What it really
> is is sore feet.

here's my .02cents....regar0ding the issue of gear prices...

How come in the last, say 20 years (or 30, etc) computer chips, electronic
components, micro-wiring and soldering technology and technique, plastic,
have all been greatly improved in quality and been slashed in price.

Every consumer iterm that involves these components has become drastically,
amazingly cheaper, yet vasly higher in quality, than 20 or 30 years back -
clock radios, cassette decks, walkmans, VCRs, computers like the ones we're
all on right now, etc.

Yet musical gear, effects processors, many synths, tuners, etc all cost AS
MUCH, sometimes MORE than they did years ago. Of course - many exceptions
to the rule.... but in general, c'mon!!!! why do the people that support ,
yes, a smaller industry, hav to keep paying while the production costs go
down for all these manufacturers??? is it just supply & demand ?? why does
a BOSS TU12 tuner cost like $60-80 , just the same that it did 10 years
ago??? Or most rackmount effects???again, there are lots of bargains out
there, but, as anyone who has looked thru a blue book can see, musicians,
who can sometimes least afford it, shoulder an odd set of pricing
structures/strictures.

I smell a rat.

andre , wicked looper of the east
> 
> 

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:55:06 -0600
From: Pat Murphy <pmurphy@gibson.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Cheap Used Gear Sources
Message-Id: <97Dec12.105447cst.26883@gateway.gibson.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Some of the places I found that sell used stuff for cheap include:

EU Wurlitzer-www.wurlitzer.com
Daddies Junky Music- www.ugbm.com
Thoroughbred Music.-www.tbred-music.com
Lentines-www.lentine.com








>Ahanning,
>Yeah, the cost on JamMan is whatever you can get for them, usually people who
>have them know they can get 200 - 250 trade for them.  At Guitar Center, (
where
>the guitar player in my band works in Pro Audio) they usually sell them (
if they
>can get them) for 25 to 45 over their cost.
>Again it depends on how much they get them for, and usually as a retro piece
>people want quite a bit (if people sell them at all).  For a cheap one
look in
>the papers for someone to trade or who really needs the money.
>
>Jim out.
>
>
>Ahanning wrote:
>
>> We've got a "MARS" music store opening up in my area - anyone had any
success
>> stories in haggling prices down at one of these?
>> likewise, am looking for a Jamman or preferably echoplex, as cheap as cheap
>> can be. Anyone know what sort of mark up (roughly speaking) List price
for a
>> big-ass store might be over cost to them?
>> TIA
>> Alex
>
>
>
>--
>Jim Taylor
>LAN/WAN Specialist
>Santa Cruz City School District
>2931 Mission St. Santa Cruz, Ca. 95060
>(408) 429 3848
>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:47:46 -0600
From: "Ott, John" <John_Ott@ATK.COM>
To: "'loopers delight'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: N.A.M.M show, GEAR prices !!!
Message-ID: <F1AB88C8C043D011875C00805FD426B81FB42E@Exchange_WV1.ATK.COM>

	>>>quote>>>>>
> From: 	Andre Cholmodeley
> Reply To: 	@monmouth.com
> Sent: 	Friday, December 12, 1997 4:45 PM
> To: 	John_Ott@ATK.COM
> Subject: 	Re: N.A.M.M show, GEAR prices !!!
> 
> > 
> > >lot of manufacturers don't want the general public to know what
> price
> > 
> > >they're selling their products to retailers for.....ocaasionaly
> criticized for being exclusionary to
> > the consumer. In fact, it is sometimes characterized as a kind of
> Callous
> > Cabal of Capitalistic Chuckleheads scheming up ever more devious
> ways to
> > separate the starving musician from his/her last farthing. What it
> really
> > is is sore feet.
> 
> here's my .02cents....regar0ding the issue of gear prices...
> 
> How come in the last, say 20 years (or 30, etc) computer chips,
> electronic
> components, micro-wiring and soldering technology and technique,
> plastic,
> have all been greatly improved in quality and been slashed in price.
> 
> Every consumer iterm that involves these components has become
> drastically,
> amazingly cheaper, yet vasly higher in quality, than 20 or 30 years
> back -
> clock radios, cassette decks, walkmans, VCRs, computers like the ones
> we're
> all on right now, etc.
> 
> Yet musical gear, effects processors, many synths, tuners, etc all
> cost AS
> MUCH, sometimes MORE than they did years ago. Of course - many
> exceptions
> to the rule.... but in general, c'mon!!!! why do the people that
> support ,
> yes, a smaller industry, hav to keep paying while the production costs
> go
> down for all these manufacturers??? is it just supply & demand ?? why
> does
> a BOSS TU12 tuner cost like $60-80 , just the same that it did 10
> years
> ago??? Or most rackmount effects???again, there are lots of bargains
> out
> there, but, as anyone who has looked thru a blue book can see,
> musicians,
> who can sometimes least afford it, shoulder an odd set of pricing
> structures/strictures.
> 
> I smell a rat.
> 
> andre , wicked looper of the east
> > >>>> end quote>>>
> 
	Your model of cost doesn't include R&D.  That cost is spread out
	over the life of the unit.  That's why new stuff costs more and
then
	later drops in price.  How a company recoups R&D depends on how 
	they perceive demand.  There is a balance between trying to
recoup
	costs and pricing yourself out of the market. Electronics for
music
	will cost more than VCRs and home stereo because of the lower
	demand and less opportunity for the vendor to recoup their cost
	and make a profit.  That's why effect processors have not
dropped
	in price as much as home electronics.  Our job as musicians is
to show how useful these devices are and increase demand and lower costs
for all.  Demand will lower costs more than any break through in
manufacturing and electronics. 

	Just passing on one of the more interesting lectures in my
Graduate school Computer Architecture class/ (VPI class of 96)

	later
	John

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 14:31:54 -0500
From: George Henry <ghenry@bandanacomputer.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Major Jamage (Bela Fleck and others)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971212143154.006bd318@bandanacomputer.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 09:49 AM 12/12/97 EST, ANET wrote:
>Have you heard Bela with Sam Bush, Edgar Meyer, Mark O'Connor and Jerry
Douglas
>on the CD, Strength In Numbers?  MCA-6293
>
>No looping, but major jamming.  I have never heard bluegrass come so close to
>jazz and blues boogie/shuffle as this.  All the instruments are acoustic and
>take on a phenominal blending of styles. 
>
>Nuff' said take a listen to these guys, they are good! 
>

Well, it's a unrelentingly stringy album--all stringed instruments--which
is a little hard to get used to (read: borderline to overwhelming), and
possibly one reason Strength in Numbers only survived as a band long enough
to release one CD. The music itself (disregarding the feeling of being
strung up by one's ears) is eggsellent.

Bela, Sam, Edgar, Mark, and Jerry are probably all progressive and
experimental enough to introduce looping to bluegrass. I just don't know if
bluegrass audiences are ready for it....

George Henry
------------
If no one here remembers me, that's okay.
I've been away for a while.
Now they're letting me out on weekends,
when I behave well. <g>

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 13:47:53 +0000
From: Fred Marshall <fred@fredmarshall.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Liaght Sound Dimension at SOMAR
Message-ID: <3491402E.28AA@fredmarshall.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

PRESS RELEASE:

AN EVENING OF JAZZ FOR YOUR EARS AND EYES !

LIGHT SOUND DIMENSION,  an AUDIO-VISUAL JAZZ GROUP whose unique work
spans over 30 years, combines Bill Ham's LIGHT Shows (spontaneous
real-time projection painting) with Fred Marshall's SOUND (currently the
Marshall Arts Trio - Fred playing Bass and instruments of his own
design, Joshi Marshall playing Saxophones, flutes, etc., and Steve Rossi
on Percussion). 

A ONE NIGHT LIVE PERFORMANCE CELEBRATING THREE DECADES OF COLLABORATION
!
                                            
9:00 pm, December 12th, 1997 at: 

SOMAR - 934 Brannan St. -  San Francisco, CA - $5 at the door.
                                                   
                                                              
BACKGROUND

Bill Ham is a painter working in real-time with light as his medium.
Bill originally developed this spontaneous form of projection painting
in his studio. Later at the Avalon Ballroom he created the form that
became known as the Psychedelic Light Show.

Fred Marshall  can be heard on many jazz classics, including Vince
Guaraldi's "In Person", and "Vince Guaraldi's Greatest Hits" (also on
the "Peanuts" TV series) and Jon Hendricks' "Live at the Trident"
(recently re-released on CD). Still pushing the Jazz envelope, Fred
plays instruments he has invented - The welded steel Megatar, the
Cerberus, the "Uprite" Bass, the Time Tunnel Loop and the Drone. Fred is
one third of the Marshall Arts Trio. 

In 1966 Bill Ham and Fred Marshall formed Light Sound Dimension, and in
February 1967 gave their first public performances at the San Francisco
Museum of Art. (S.F. Chronicle) Jazz critic Ralph Gleason wrote: "Show
May Put Museum in Orbit !" 

In 1968 they opened the Light Sound Dimension Theater, of which Alfred
Frankenstein  (S. F. Chronicle) wrote: "Light and Sound improvise
together for an hour at each showing. No one hour is ever like another
and there is probably no theater like this one anywhere else on Earth."
(See picture in the ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME book "I Want to Take you
Higher").  L.S.D. went on to perform at museums,  galleries,  colleges
and universities here and in Europe. 

Fred Marshall and son, Joshi Marshall  met in 1971 in the delivery room
and, in 1988, formed the Marshall Arts Trio which has appeared at many
clubs and Jazz Festivals, including the San Francisco Jazz Festival, and
the  1997 Monterey Jazz Festival.

Philip Elwood (S.F. Examiner) reported from the 1997 Monterey Jazz
Festival "on Saturday we heard an extraordinary  set by the Marshall
Arts Trio . . . which included some fascinating free-jazz . . .exciting
solos and duets and nicely controlled dynamics".

Joshi Marshall is the featured soloist in the Marshall Arts Trio,
playing tenor and alto saxophones, often simultaneously, as well as
flutes and percussion. Joshi and Steve are featured on the just-released
Mingus Amongus CD.

Steve Rossi is simply one of the finest drummer/percussionists anywhere.

--------------------------------