------------------------------
Loopers-Delight-d Digest				Volume 97 : Issue 234

Today's Topics:
  Re: Re: Re Loop Doctors               [ Fmplautus <Fmplautus@aol.com> ]
  unsubscribe                           [ Alfio <bigmac@donalds.demon.nl> ]
  Re: <STEREO>                          [ mark sottilaro <msottila@mailbox.sy ]
  Korg DL8000R info                     [ "Hartnett, Travis" <Hartnett#m#_Tra ]
  Re: Do you replace parts of loops?    [ matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias  ]
  Re: Long improvs                      [ matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias  ]
  The Evil Robert Fripp, Pockets Stuff  [ "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.c ]
  Re: Who's going to NAMM?              [ Anton Chovit <antonc@earthlink.net> ]
  Re: Korg DL8000R info                 [ Crimson@aznet.net ]
  Re: Who's going to NAMM?              [ Kim Flint <kflint@chromatic.com> ]
  Re: Echoplex price                    [ Ahanning <Ahanning@aol.com> ]
  Re: Echoplex price                    [ Scott Archambault <metaphor@earthli ]
  New Lexicon Vortex for sale           [ Len Seligman <seligman@mitre.org> ]
  RE: New Lexicon Vortex for sale       [ "Gary Bense (Vanstar)" <v-vsgb@micr ]
  RE: *NO FLASH PHOTO's* -- Fripp -- B  [ "Ott, John" <John_Ott@ATK.COM> ]

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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 14:59:43 EST
From: Fmplautus <Fmplautus@aol.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re:  Re:  Re Loop Doctors
Message-ID: <d61212c.34943ab3@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Thanks Tom:

The Ancient ones...the LoOpDoctOrs...suggest looping means never having to
grow up...just put it on hold and circle the airport.

Best,
The LoOpDoctOrs

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 02:24:37 +0100
From: Alfio <bigmac@donalds.demon.nl>
To: Kim Flint <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: unsubscribe
Message-ID: <01bd08f8$3560f460$3ce59fc2@donalds.demon.nl>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01BD0900.97255C60"

     Unsubscribe
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 00:26:40 -0500
From: mark sottilaro <msottila@mailbox.syr.edu>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: <STEREO>
Message-ID: <3494BF8E.B1BFD058@mailbox.syr.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Jeff Schwartz wrote:

> Mark has a very good point (and some other cat posted
> along the same lines a few days back-how many folks in the
> crowd can actually percieve a lot of stereo effects?) but
> at the same time, as I said, there are a bunch of Vortex
> effects (like 3/7 echoes) which sound way more like music
> if there are quarter note triplet echoes coming from one
> place and septuplet echoes coming from another, not to
> mention the possibilities for panning a lead a la Pete
> Cosey.
> I enjoy hearing an unmiked ensemble for many reasons, not
> least because I can walk around the venue and experience a
> varied mix/EQ. I think playing stereo can offer a similar
> experience. I hate hearing a band where they use the PA to
> overpower the room sound only to replace it with fake
> ambience.

Hey,

Don't get me wrong, I love stereo (I run my home stereo with a surround
sound processor from time to time), and even usually run my rig in
stereo live when I do small cafes or similar venues.  It's when you do
larger clubs that the mono thing comes into play.  As much as I agree
with you, it comes down to pleasing the lowest common denominator.  It
is better to give everyone good sound (although this rarely happens, but
don't get me started...) than it is to give a few people great sound.

Along a similar line, I just tested out an ART guitar amp.  It had this
sonic holography feature that was pretty neat, but I'm sure impossible
to use in a large club.  For those who, like myself, got turned off by
ART's original amps, these new ones seem much, much better (the design
is by Pierce).  Check them out if you get a chance, you toy addicted
guitar heads, they seem pretty cool.

   -- --
Mark
 

@
ø??? IAMNOTHERE
c

------------------------------
Date: 15 Dec 1997 10:17:35 -0800
From: "Hartnett, Travis" <Hartnett#m#_Travis@msgate.apple.com>
To: "Loopers Delight postings" <loopers-delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Korg DL8000R info
Message-ID: <n1329948597.83004@msgate.apple.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; Name="Message Body"

Full text (in a much more readable format) available at:
http://www.korg.com/dl8000r.htm





              DL8000R DIGITAL MULTI-TAP DELAY



              This versatile digital delay processor provides the
ultimate in features and flexibility and continues Korgis progression
of ground breaking digital delay development that began in the early
1980s.

              Careful attention has been paid to every detail of the
audio circuitry in the new DL8000R Digital Multi-Tap Delay.  With high
quality, sophisticated effects algorithms and parameters, this effect
processor provides advanced sound processing power at an affordable
price.

              Intuitive two-control user interfacing allows easy access
to the unitis extraordinary processing power and ultra-large
high-brightness vacuum luminiscent displays allow effortless visability
under any lighting condition.

              Superb studio-quality processing

              The DL8000R is a true stereo device with extremely clean,
studio-quality processing and long stereo delay times up to 5,200 ms. A
maximum of 10,000 ms. can be achieved in mono with both delay lines
connected in series!

              The left and right delay lines feature independant 3 Band
EQ, Pre-Delay and four delay taps each with high and low damp filters
in the feedback loops. Each delay tap can be modulated by an array of
sources including an internal LFO (with a selection of five different
waveforms), an audio envelope, assignable controllers, and MIDI clock.
A comprehensive internal Mixer allows independent programmable level,
stereo panning and polarity settings for each of the eight delay taps.

              128 phenomenol factory preset programs

              The DL8000R's preset programs include many with real-time
parameter control, such as "TURNTHEWARP," which lets you use the front
panel WARP! knob to create dramatic delay time parameter changes. The
programs include an incredibly diverse selection of delay settings
(mono, stereo, multi-tap, etc.), modulation-type programs such as
chorus, flanger and tremolo - and even tempo, rhythm and hold-type
effects that can add depth to techno and club music, for example.

              The DL8000R features essential studio application
programs including a group which provide delay, modulation and EQ
effect settings that recording engineers frequently use, along with
programs created specifically for vocals. You also get real-time
control programs for use with optional pedals, MIDI-sync programs, mic
simulations, cabinet resonators, and unique special effects. Of course
it's also possible to modify the preset programs to create your own,
and store them in the 128 memories in the user area.

              Flexible dynamic control

              The DL8000R also offers simultaneous real-time control of
up to sixteen parameters. Virtually any parameter can be controlled via
MIDI, an expression pedal or footswitch, audio signal, or the special
front panel WARP! knob. The DL8000Ris specially designed DSP circuitry
even allows glitch free real-time control of delay times.

              Powerful studio-friendly features

              Along with the usual Time mode, where delay times are
manually selected, the DL8000R features a Tempo mode. This mode
automatically sets delay times using Tempo and Factor (note value)
parameters. A left and right Rhythm Pattern parameter contains a
selection of 21 different rhythmic delay patterns utilizing the eight
delay taps.

              A tap tempo function also allows setting delay times by
tapping a dedicated front panel button or footswitch. An audio trigger
function can detect audio peaks and automatically calculate delay
times. And, delay time can be synced to MIDI clock.

                                                       \




              DL8000R SPECIFICATIONS

                     Controls: Input Level (Left, Right), Output Level
(Left, Right), Function Knob with Shift/Exit SW, Value Knob with Enter
SW, Warp! Knob with Return SW, /ms Key, Hold Key, Trigger Key, Bypass
Key, Power SW
                     Programs: User Programmable 128 programs + Preset
approx. 20 programs (Numbers are not confirmed
                     yet.)
                     Number of delay taps: L x 4 (1, 2, 3, and
Feedback), R x 4 (1, 2, 3, and feedback) with adjustable level and
                     pan
                     Delay time: max. 4,800ms (L, R each) / 10,000 ms
if pre-delay is used and delay lines are connected in
                     series
                     Input/Output Connections :Input (L/MONO, R,
1/4"phone), Output (L, R, 1/4" phone), Bypass SW Input
                     (1/4" phone), Hold SW Input (1/4"phone), Trigger
SW Input (1/4"phone), Control Pedal Input (1/4" TRS
                     phone)
                     MIDI: IN, OUT, THRU
                     Display: Large high-brightness luminescent
display, 12 characters alpha-numeric, 9 points function
                     indicator, 5 points / ch level indicator
                     A/D, D/A Resolution: 18bit Linear
                     Sample Rate: 48kHz(128 times over sampling
bitstream ADC & 128 times over sampling bitstream DAC)
                     Max. Input Level: +20.0dBu
                     Input Sensitivity: -10dBu - +8.0dBu (@12dB Head
Room)
                     Input Impedance: 500kohm
                     Max. Output Level: +20.0dBu
                     Output Load Impedance: > 600ohm
                     Frequency Response: 20Hz - 20kHz (+/-1.0dBu)
                     Dynamic Range: >96dB(@ 1kHz AWTD 22kHz-LPF)
                     T.H.D. + N: < 0.03% (@ 1kHz F.S. 22kHz-LPF)
                     Power Supply: AC 9V
                     Power Consumption: 2,000mA (max.)
                     Dimensions: 19" (W) x 8.5" (D) x 1.7" (H)
                     Weight: 5.5 lbs.
                     Accessories: AC/AC Power supply
                     [0dBu = 0.775Vrms]
                     [F.S.= Digital Full Scale Level]



              OPTIONS

                     XVP-10 EXP/VOL Pedal
                     EXP-2 Expression Pedal
                     PS-1 Pedal Switch
                     PS-2 Pedal Switch

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 15:35:41 -0300
From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Do you replace parts of loops?
Message-Id: <v03007803b0bb15d48b76@[200.254.32.160]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>>I just got fascinated again about the possiblility to replace parts of
>>longer loops while experiencing them. Within over 15 sec of loop you
>>probably like some bit better than the other. The bit you do not like (be
>>it a colour in your "wash" or a single cord in your sequence), you can
>>reduce with feedback or even replace straight away with a Replace function.
>>After listening to the loop enough, you know what you want to change and
>>thus let the whole idea grow.
>>
>>I prefer to use FeedBack for this, because it allows to fade or leave a bit
>>or the old stuff in the background.
>>Used smother it simply creates a dynamic wave of a previously constant
>sound.
>>
>>Do you all use such tricks?
>>For practicing/creating or as musical expression/composition in a final
>>version?

Randy Jones was the only one to react... does that mean that noone uses
this method yet? ... well noone is obliged to answer, so never mind... I
just thought, that this kind of talk is rather bound to the intention of
this list...
So Randy asked:
>This sounds like a very interesting thing to do.  Is is possible to give
>specific instructions for this technique.  I read the manual, but can't
>actually GET the process.  Sorry to be technoslow...I think a "Echoplex For
>Dummies" is the manual I need.

There are Playing Hints on the web page that might be interesting for you.
The Replace function is mentioned in the manual, under Insert, though.
(page 4-27 in my manual). Once the InsertMode is set to rpl or rhr, you
simply press INSERT during a part you do not like an play something better
that will stay in that spot from then on.

The thing with FeedBack is technically simple, but it took me a long time
to find its musical use. You reduce the FeedBack pot (preferably a pedal!)
during the unwanted part and optionally switch on Overdubb before to
immediately play something new over the spot.

Try an tell us!
Matthias

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 16:19:01 -0300
From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Long improvs
Message-Id: <v03007806b0bb2512205e@[200.254.32.160]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Dave Eichenberger told us a while ago:

>I've been forcing myself to record 1/2 hour improvs at home, all live, no
>overdubs- after the first few hours or so, I really have to strain to come
>up with ideas, I can't rely on tricks or patterns. I go out for a walk, look
>at the scenery, and try to think of new ways to approach things, like asking
>myself
>How do clouds sound?
>Bushes?
>What does green and orange sound like?
>I come up with at least an hour of new, fresh things this way, usually
>nothing like what I came up with before.

Very nice. What do you do with those recordings?
Does the music end up percievably related to the stimulus (clouds...) ?
Could the feel be cought from a short bit of the recording so you end up
with a musical lexicon?
Did you do this for days, months, will you go on...?

Matthias

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 97 12:22:32 -0000
From: "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.com>
To: "Looper's Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: The Evil Robert Fripp, Pockets Stuffed Full Of Cash
Message-Id: <199712151822.KAA08804@scv4.apple.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

>
>It would have been more honest and frankly more lighthearted of Robert had
>he admitted that the music was in fact precious and glorified ... but there
>was nothing lighthearted about it or him whatsoever ... oh, save for the
>"sully" comment ... I stand corrected.

I think the "precious and glorified" aspect of it is in the eye of the 
beholder.  It's well documented that Fripp has been attempting for years 
to get the audience to drop many of their standard expectations for what 
a musical performance entails, and instead, listen and experience what's 
actually happening before them.  High ticket prices, tall stages, 
impressive light shows, the very scale of the venue, all of these can 
serve to distance the audience not from the performer, but from the music 
itself.  When a different type of music (Frippertronics or Soundscapes in 
this case) is being presented, perhaps a new mode of listening is also 
required.  

You'd also mentioned the ticket cost ($40).  I'd say that cost reflects 
seeing four acts.  If you had no interest in Vai, Satriani or Sheppard, 
then, well...that's the way it goes.  Would you have been happier if 
you'd paid $10 for the ticket?  I think that having Fripp on the tour 
serves more as an introduction to ambience/looping/experimental guitar 
for fans of conventional guitar playing.  If you go there already 
well-informed about the nature of Soundscapes, then you may find a clash 
between the setting, the music, and Fripp's "performance".  

The nature of Fripp's performances on the tour have also been documented 
extensively in the music press, Elephant Talk, and even on this list 
earlier this year. Anyway, for those who may be considering attending a 
Soundscapes performance, bear in mind the following:

1) There's not much to look at.  Fripp doesn't move much when he plays, 
and his equipment set up doesn't require many notes to be input from the 
guitar before all sorts of processing twists everything around.  
2) On the G3 tour, Fripp starts when the doors to the venue opens, or 
sometimes even before.  That's correct--he may have to audacity to play 
music when you aren't there, and are barred from entering.  Arrive when 
the doors open in order to hear all of the public performance.
3) Fripp may step away from his equipment, or even walk around the venue, 
yet sounds will continue to emanate from the speakers.  After a while, he 
may sit down and "play" a little more.  Or not.
4) Fripp doesn't like photography or bootleg recordings.  Flash 
photography has caused the performance to come to an unxpected early 
ending, or may result in him leaving the stage for a while.  Again, 
sounds will proably continue to emanate from the speakers.
5) Fripp may speak to the audience.  He may be funny, pompous and/or 
boring and conceited. Or not.

Travis Hartnett

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 15:19:53 +0000
From: Anton Chovit <antonc@earthlink.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Who's going to NAMM?
Message-ID: <3495467A.4568@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Kim Flint wrote:
> 
> The NAMM show is coming up again, Jan 29 - Feb 1.  Who's going? We had a
> little Looper's convention last year. Small but fun! Who wants to do it
> again this year?
> 
> kim


Sounds interesting.  What did you have in mind?

Anton

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 19:35:55 -0800
From: Crimson@aznet.net
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Korg DL8000R info
Message-ID: <3495F71B.3B4@aznet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Does anyone have any pricing information on the Korg DL8000R, or any
idea as to when it is supposed to come onto the general market?

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 19:27:21 -0800
From: Kim Flint <kflint@chromatic.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Who's going to NAMM?
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19971216032721.00a1dc1c@pop.chromatic.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 03:19 PM 12/15/97 +0000, Anton Chovit wrote:
>Kim Flint wrote:
>> 
>> The NAMM show is coming up again, Jan 29 - Feb 1.  Who's going? We had a
>> little Looper's convention last year. Small but fun! Who wants to do it
>> again this year?
>> 
>> kim
>
>
>Sounds interesting.  What did you have in mind?
>

I was thinking we could agree to meet at some spot for lunch on one of the
show days. Probably saturday since most people going are likely to be there
that day. Pretty free form from there...meet in real life, talk about
looping, recommend stuff to check out that we've seen, advice on which
parties to crash, etc. Whatever happens I guess. 

kim
_______________________________________________________
Kim Flint			408-752-9284
Mpact Systems Engineering	kflint@chromatic.com
Chromatic Research		http://www.chromatic.com

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 00:11:23 EST
From: Ahanning <Ahanning@aol.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Echoplex price
Message-ID: <a24f6be2.34960d7d@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

I've been checking around - I emailed oberheim & the list price for one with
4meg is $869 + shipping/tax/whatever. So I'd say the store is either gold-
plating them first or gold-digging the customers.
Still, that leaves you plenty of room to haggle, or to try somewhere that
sells below list.
Alex

In a message dated 97-12-14 01:48:30 EST, you write:

<< Hi all.  Im back after a long hiatus having moved from Philly to Seattle.
 Im itchin' for an Echoplex.  However, a dude at a music store looked up
 the price and said they were like $1200!!!  Did the price double in the
 last
 year or something?  They used to be $550 or so.  Is the music store guy
 just ill informed or has Oberheim actually priced me out of the market?
 
 If they are that expensive then maybe i should look for a used Djamn Man.
 Anyone...
 
 Clark Battle
 BattleAxe! ~ sound tools
  >>

------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 21:32:48 -0700
From: Scott Archambault <metaphor@earthlink.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Echoplex price
Message-ID: <34960470.6B7@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

CAN YOU STILL BUY THE OBERHEIM ECHOPLEX DIGITAL PRO?

WHERE IS IT AVAILABLE? (I'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR ONE FOR AGES)

THANKS,

SCOTT. 
METAPHOR@EARTHLINK.NET

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 09:55:14 -0500
From: Len Seligman <seligman@mitre.org>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: New Lexicon Vortex for sale
Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19971216095514.006c0c8c@dharma.mitre.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Brand new (just 2 weeks of the warranty used up), in the original box with
all papers, manual, and footswitch. I bought it on impulse a couple of
weeks ago and realized afterward that, as cool as it is, I really need to
be spending the money on other things (e.g., PA equipment and other life
essentials).

$265 (plus shipping from Maryland)

Please respond direct to me (seligman@mitre.org) and not to Looper's
Delight. Thanks!

-Len

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 07:00:51 -0800
From: "Gary Bense (Vanstar)" <v-vsgb@microsoft.com>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: New Lexicon Vortex for sale
Message-ID: <5CEA8663F24DD111A96100805FFE6587F1E40A@red-msg-51.dns.microsoft.com>

I'll take it!

> ----------
> From: 	Len Seligman[SMTP:seligman@mitre.org]
> Reply To: 	Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> Sent: 	Tuesday, December 16, 1997 6:59 AM
> To: 	Gary Bense (Vanstar)
> Subject: 	New Lexicon Vortex for sale
> 
> Brand new (just 2 weeks of the warranty used up), in the original box with
> all papers, manual, and footswitch. I bought it on impulse a couple of
> weeks ago and realized afterward that, as cool as it is, I really need to
> be spending the money on other things (e.g., PA equipment and other life
> essentials).
> 
> $265 (plus shipping from Maryland)
> 
> Please respond direct to me (seligman@mitre.org) and not to Looper's
> Delight. Thanks!
> 
> -Len
> 

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 09:18:11 -0600
From: "Ott, John" <John_Ott@ATK.COM>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: *NO FLASH PHOTO's* -- Fripp -- Boston -- Dec 16 -- House of B
	lues
Message-ID: <F1AB88C8C043D011875C00805FD426B81FB432@Exchange_WV1.ATK.COM>

He explained why he stopped at the ProjeKt One date at the Birchmere
show, his management sent out warning that if flashes happened Fripp
would walk off.
He felt he had to backup his manager.

It was a great show Fripp started a loop at 6 when the doors opened
Played till 9pm, then a hour of Q&A.


later
John
> -----Original Message-----
> From:	David Kirkdorffer [SMTP:DKirkdorffer@exapps.com]
> Sent:	Friday, December 12, 1997 6:57 PM
> To:	John_Ott@ATK.COM
> Subject:	*NO FLASH PHOTO's* -- Fripp -- Boston -- Dec 16 -- House
> of Blues
> Importance:	High
> 
> Oh yes - 
> 
> Without defending or justifying it -- reports are that at recent
> Crimson
> off-shoot shows for ProjeKt One - FLASH PHOTO's have caused great
> upset
> to the Fripp-most.  He has stopped playing - or talking  when a FLASH
> goes off.
> 
> So, PLEASE - **NO FLASH PHOTO'S**  - or he may stop. Stop. Stop. Stop.
> Stop... 
> 
> David Kirkdorffer
> UNDO
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From:	David Kirkdorffer 
> Sent:	Friday, December 12, 1997 6:41 PM
> To:	'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'
> Subject:	FYI -- Fripp -- Boston -- Dec 16 -- House of Blues
> Importance:	High
> 
> FYI
> 
> Fripp -- Boston -- Dec 16 -- House of Blues
> 
> I advise checking in as soon as the doors open.  That's when he's
> liable
> to start - if not earlier - regardless of stated show time.
> 
> Tix are $15
> 
> Not well publicized.
> 
> But, if you're in the arae...
> 
>  Woooooosshhh!
> 
> David Kirkdorffer
> UNDO

--------------------------------