------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain Loopers-Delight-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 28 Today's Topics: A Jamthing, Vortex, and 'plex free p [ "Bailey, Jim" MIDI Clock [ kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) ] Bananas Echoplex Page [ cwb@platinum.com (Clark) ] Re: Bananas Echoplex Page [ David Talento ] Re: Another new member [ Fish ] Vortex fer sale @ GC- $129.99!!!! [ pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hu ] Re: Bananas Echoplex Page [ kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) ] RE: Vortex fer sale @ GC- $129.99!!! [ "Hogan, Greg" ] RE: A Jamthing, Vortex, and 'plex fr [ Michael Peters <100041.247@compuser ] Re: Bananas Echoplex Page [ Floyd Miller ] Re: Tapping tempo --> MIDI Clock [ The Man Himself MIDI Clock [ Kim Flint ] Re: Tapping tempo --> MIDI Clock [ "Robert S. Carter" To: looppost Subject: A Jamthing, Vortex, and 'plex free post! Message-ID: <32F96B51@pcsmtp.cmail.southam.ca> De-lurking at last. Greetings to all. First a bit of humour: Kem McNair wrote: P.s. I'll contact ray peck about the killer loops for the cd Yeah, I saw these in an opticians recently, made by Bausch & Lomb. What are they? ;-] ;-] (No, seriously, I did see them. They are in a small black box with a label on the side that says "KILLER LOOP". I don't wear glasses, and the shop is always closed - I'm coming home at 02:00 after doing a radio show, so I have no idea. Does anybody know what these are? Maybe I could find out if not.) Now on to serious stuff. I have been "looping" for nigh on twenty years now, on and off, using the old two open-reel method (ala Frippertronics except I use Tandbergs and do not have the luxury of speed control, but it still works most times). Input sounds are anything that will make a noise, although electronics are best because they don't require mic's. Anyone else out there still in the stone age?:-) I noticed on the web page that there is a list of loopers and info about them, but can't see any way of contributing to it. Is there a special requirement, or am I just missing something? I have an album (vinyl), put out just over ten years ago which contains two tape-delay pieces - one using Mini-Moog, the other with electric guitar. Do people on the list use it to trade product? This would seem to be an obvious application, and is something I am attempting to set up for Elephant Talk, the King Crimson etc. website and forum. So please enlighten me! HAPPY LOOPING! happy looping! happy ........... Jim Bailey ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 22:35:15 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: A Jamthing, Vortex, and 'plex free post! Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 6 Feb 1997, Bailey, Jim wrote: > I noticed on the web page that there is a list of loopers and info about > them, but can't see any way of contributing to it. Is there a special > requirement, or am I just missing something? Your suspicions are correct -- you are ineligible from contributing to the list of loopers, as your archaic reel-to-reel methodology represents an inability to go BEYOND FRIPP!!! Just kidding, of course! If you want to contribute something to the Web, the best thing to do is send it to Michael Peters <100041.247@compuserve.com>, the resident HTML man for the list/web site. --Andre ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 00:59:43 -0800 From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, rsc4@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu Subject: Re: Tapping tempo --> MIDI Clock Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Bob: > >And now a really important question which I've posted to several >newsgroups with no good answers. I desperately need a pedal switch or >button type device with which to tap tempo and send a master MIDI >clock. ..... >This is not a set it and leave it operation, rather I want to >be able to change tempos on the fly during and between songs. You can do this with an echoplex quite easily. You can also have it send clock with different meters in relation to your taps. (ie your taps equal 2 beats, or four, or seven, or whatever) You can do a lot of other things with an echoplex that are probably a bit more exciting.... I think some roland stuff for dance music also does this. The MC-303 and the DJ70-MKII maybe. They're not footpedals, though, but both are interesting products in their own right. There must be others. >The one >device that I have used that will do it is an oberheim cyclone, but I'll >spare you the reasons why I don't want to use the cyclone (great box, no >reliability). wow, a cyclone user! When I was at Gibson no one really knew what this thing did, but people were still buying it every now and then. I remember being at trade shows and meeting fanatical cyclone users. You thought looping was a niche..... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 10:29:21 -0500 From: cwb@platinum.com (Clark) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Bananas Echoplex Page Message-Id: <199702061529.KAA08192@octopus.ab.platinum.com> The Bananas at Large page says that the Echoplex "saves/loads Loops and sound files". I wasnt aware that it was able to save loops at all. Is this an error on their page or is it correct? Clark BTW, their toll free number is 800 786 7585 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 11:00:30 -0500 (EST) From: David Talento To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Bananas Echoplex Page Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 6 Feb 1997, Clark wrote: > The Bananas at Large page says that the Echoplex "saves/loads Loops > and sound files". I wasnt aware that it was able to save loops at all. > Is this an error on their page or is it correct? Well it's kinda misleading IMO. You can "save" loops by going through the finicky midi sample dump features. I for one have never gotten this to work but I'm told it does. Usually when I hear people talking about "saving" something they are refering to static RAM where you turn off the unit and it stays in memory until you intentionally erase it. The EP does *not* do that, once you turn it off it loses all memory and boots clean the next time you turn it on. > BTW, their toll free number is 800 786 7585 FWIW I called them yesterday and they said they are backordered on the pedals just liek everyone else. They did say they're at teh top of the list when they do come in but it will probably be a couple weeks at best. The do have the Echoplex unit in stock though. Didn't get a price on that (they wanted $110 for the pedal alone). -------- Help Wanted Productions - Bringing you the best in organic electronic and sweaty rock music since we started. Http://www.voicenet.com/~legion Available next month: "The Feedback Machine" a new studio album from the Music for Isolation Tanks live lineup. Only $6.00 postpaid! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 16:48:02 +0000 From: Fish To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Another new member Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970206162429.00d91f48@mail.ndirect.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Someone asked about looping with a sampler. Here's a repost of my tips for setting up a feedback loop on the S2000/S3000 series with the EB16 internal FX board. From: "Fish" Subject: [Akai] Re: Remix tip for Akai users To continue with this excellant thread of creative tips, I thought I'd share with you my experiments with feedback loops using the EB16 effects expansion board for the Akai S2000 and it's bigger brothers. I originally discovered this technique while playing about with a friend's Roland tape delay and a wah-wah pedal but it's quite easy to reproduce with the EB16. The basic theory is to take a sound, put it through a slowly sweeping band pass filter, delay the signal, and then feed it back to the start where it gets filtered, delayed and fed back again. Now, you're probably thinking this is a bad idea and will result in the nasty howl around feedback which we're all familiar with having plugged an output into it's own input after one spliff too many in the studio. But it's the sweeping band pass filter that's the key here. As the filter only lets through a certain range of frequencies and eliminates the others, by the time the delayed signal is fed back to the input the filter will have shifted frequency sufficiently to prevent the signal building up into that nasty howl. Depending on the original sound and by adjusting various parameters you can achieve a number of weird and wonderful effects. Play a big chord using nice thick pad and pass it through the feedback loop and you get a beautiful evolving swirl of sound as the various harmonics are picked out and emphasized. Take a techno stab, played in time with the delay and your riff takes on a life of it's own. Or a few Rhodes chords add a really spacey dimension to a dub track. White noise textures also work well with the feedback loop adding a lot of movement to the sound. And of course with an electric guitar, which is what I first made the effect for, your average solo will take right off into space! But I'm sure you'd rather create the effect yourself than listen to me try and describe it. A word of warning is appropriate here. Because you're feeding the Akai's ouput back to it's input, there's a risk that the signal levels could get enormously high. The best sound is right on the limit before it tips over into a howling shriek, so you need to be very precise with the parameters. But, like many great sounds, this comes from experimental use/abuse of the equipment (the Roland Bassline and the wickedly detailed breaks of drum'n'bass spring to mind). The Akai is a sturdy bit of kit and can probably take it in short doses, but you're ears aren't--so please, BE CAREFUL! Obviously I can't accept any liability for to damage of your equipment or hearing! :) Got that? Ok, here's how you set it up: I can only describe how to do this on the S2000, but I expect if you own the S3000xl you'll be able to work out how to acheive the same effect. Also, if you have multiple outputs you can be more flexible with what you plug into what. 1.Sample or load an initial program. Good sounds to work with are thick pads or textures with a lot of harmonic content covering a wide range of the frequency spectrum or buzzy analogue leads with an open filter. 2.Go into single>edit and find the page OUT L/R and check that the level parameter is up at maximum and the pan at centre. 3.Page down one step to the Out Fxbus page and set the FXbus to FX1 with a send level around 75. 4.Make sure that no FX override is set for any of the keygroups or they'll loose the effect. 5.Provided you're happy with the source sound, now choose the Effects button. Pick any free Fx slot to use and hit the Edit button to get into the parameters for FX1. 6.Page down until you get to the Ringmod/Distort page and set it to Bypass. 7.Page down again and set the Equalise to Active. 8.To cut out the outer frequencies you need to eliminate the high & low eqs . Page down to the EQ Low page. Set the frequency to around 100hz and spin the dB right down to -oo to cut out the bass frequencies. Do the same with the EQ High page (a couple pages down) and set the frequency to about 10kHz and the dB all the way down. 9.It's the band pass filters which you're interested in. Set the frequency to around 800hz, the boost to about +8dB and the width around 10 (you can come back and change this later to suit the sound and how pronounced you want the sweep effect to be). Set the second band pass up in a similar way to the first. 10.Page down a couple of times and you'll find the BPMOD pages. Set the sweep rate to sloooow; it's best at around 0.1 or 0.2Hz. Try a depth of around 30. If you're using the second band pass filter, set it up in a similar way with the same rate. 11.You can either bypass the Mod section or add a little chorus to the effect. 12.Set the echo mode to Mono L+R and set the delay time to somewhere between 200-500ms or set it in time with the tempo of your track with each delay equal to an 8th note. 13.Ignore the Damp parameter and set the Fbk to 0 (remember we're going to physically feed back the Akai's output to an input - but NOT YET!!). 14.On the next page, leave the offset to 00 and set the Output to ***POSTdel***. This parameter is particularly important for the effect to be anything other than nasty howl around. 15.You can ignore the reverb parameters for the time being as we'll bypass this later. 16.On the Dist/EQ page, turn the Level right down to ***00***. This is another potentially speaker saving parameter which should not be ignored. 17.On the MOD/ECHO page, turn the Level right up to 99 and leave it MID panned. 18.Then on the REV, turn the level all the way down to ***00***. 19.Leave the Path control at the default 00 and Program Signal to Stereo should be set to ON. 20.Finally hit the Effects button and page all the way down to Left ADC input and set it To:FX1 with Thru: set to ***00***. Okay, provided you've followed these instructions carefully, it's time to give it a try! Turn the REC GAIN level to 12 o'clock and the main volume ALL THE WAY DOWN. Now take a patch cable and connect either the L or R of the Akai's stereo output and plug the other end into the L/MONO input on the front panel. Now SLOWLY turn up the main volume. If you immediately hear a howl before playing any notes, go back and check all the parameters above- particularly the ones highlighted with astrixes. If all is going well, play a few notes and you should hear the effect of the sound being delayed and fed back through the EQ filters. Slowly increase the volume, if it grows into a howl, just turn down the volume so it doesn't feedback on the next delay. It will take some practise to get the levels just right, but you should be able to find a level where the sound sustains without rising into a howl around but doesn't decay too quickly. Then go back and fine tune EQ section. The parameters to play with are the depth of the Modulation and the frequency, boost and width of the filters. More meaty sweeping effects can be achieved by increasing the width of the bank pass filters, while decreasing the width will give a smaller chirpy sound. Just remember to keep a hand on the Main Volume control in case the levels get to high. Or if you're studio is equipped with a limiter, patch it into the loop. Truely psychedelic effects can be created by gating the source sound by applying an LFO to the amplitude, running in time with the delay, which will creates cascades of frequencies. Finally, add kick drum and record to DAT. Wait for your record to go platinum, and send me a cheque for the inspiration :-) Best of luck! PS. A useful addition to the chain is to have control over the amount of signal being fed back to the input. I use an analogue volume pedal between the Akai output and it's input, but it would certainly be nice to have MIDI control over this. If anyone finds a way please let me know! Fish fish@ndirect.co.uk http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~fish ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 16:53:42 GMT From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Vortex fer sale @ GC- $129.99!!!! Message-Id: <11924.199702061653@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Much as this _REALLY_ cuts me up, there's a Vortex going for $129-99 in CG Hollywood that a last-minute bill from the gasman has prevented my from buying. Let my misfortune be your good fortune - go get! The person to ask for is Bo Boyd. It's been opened, but just do what I was planning, get 'em to send it direct to Lex for a checkover (OK Greg? :) ). Damn. Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 08:55:00 -0800 From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Bananas Echoplex Page Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" David Talento wrote: >On Thu, 6 Feb 1997, Clark wrote: > >> The Bananas at Large page says that the Echoplex "saves/loads Loops >> and sound files". I wasnt aware that it was able to save loops at all. >> Is this an error on their page or is it correct? > >Well it's kinda misleading IMO. You can "save" loops by going through the >finicky midi sample dump features. I for one have never gotten this to >work but I'm told it does. What are you trying to save it to? Some companies implemented sample dump in strange ways. (the k2000, for instance, added some new parameters that you have to supply or it don't work) Maybe we can find a workaround for you or at least make sure your sampler is supported when that part of the software is updated. >Usually when I hear people talking about "saving" something they are >refering to static RAM where you turn off the unit and it stays in >memory until you intentionally erase it. The EP does *not* do that, once >you turn it off it loses all memory and boots clean the next time you >turn it on. The quantity of memory we are talking about makes this sort of storage method very expensive. Especially 3-4 years ago when the echoplex was being designed. If we had added such a feature at the time, nobody could have afforded it. Now, flash memory is finally getting cheaper, but then people want more memory. So the problem doesn't go away. SCSI would be the best, but it's still not very cheap in low volumes, and you would still have to buy a disk. (and we would have to design some kind of file structure and disk os, and figure out how to control it from the interface, which would take a while) So the question is, how much is something like that worth to you? >> BTW, their toll free number is 800 786 7585 > >FWIW I called them yesterday and they said they are backordered on the >pedals just liek everyone else. They did say they're at teh top of the >list when they do come in but it will probably be a couple weeks at best. >The do have the Echoplex unit in stock though. Didn't get a price on that >(they wanted $110 for the pedal alone). You can make a pedal if you like, directions are on the web page. It's pretty easy. Also, there are jacks on the back for using ordinary momentary switch type pedals to control Record and Overdub, which might be enough until the pedals are available again. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 12:32:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" To: Loopers-Delight Subject: RE: Vortex fer sale @ GC- $129.99!!!! Message-Id: <9702061742.AA13066@beryllium.lexicon.com> Michael said: " It's been opened, but just do what I was planning, get 'em to send it direct to Lex for a checkover (OK Greg? :) )." Well, Michael, I'm sorry that you are not getting the Vortex. As there is a one year domestic warranty the checkover which you refer to should only be necessary if the unit is being purchased to be shipped outside of North America. Best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 email:ghogan@lexicon.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 13:18:46 -0500 From: Michael Peters <100041.247@compuserve.com> To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: A Jamthing, Vortex, and 'plex free post! Message-ID: <199702061318_MC2-10F2-9CE9@compuserve.com> > Yeah, I saw these in an opticians recently, > made by Bausch & Lomb. What are they? ;-] ;-] > (No, seriously, I did see them. They are in a small black box with a label > on the side that says "KILLER LOOP". ok, in the name of our looping community :) I'd like to ask you to buy one, scan the label, and upload the image to our web page. After all, killer loops are what this is all about! :-)) > I noticed on the web page that there is a list of loopers and info about > them, but can't see any way of contributing to it. Is there a special > requirement, or am I just missing something? As Andre said, you missed something (it is explained in the list introduction paragraph). Email your contribution to me (email address see below), and I'll add you to the page and send the result to Kim, who eventually uploads it to the web. Michael Peters default mail address: 100041.247@compuserve.com binary stuff and attachments: mp@scholz.re.eunet.de http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 13:35:54 -0500 (EST) From: Floyd Miller To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Bananas Echoplex Page Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 6 Feb 1997, David Talento wrote: > > > Usually when I hear people talking about "saving" something they are > refering to static RAM where you turn off the unit and it stays in > memory until you intentionally erase it. Actually Static RAM is a type of semiconductor memory technology (ie.e Statuc vs. Dynamic) that has to do with the way the electrical charge is maintained in the memory cells. You probably mean Non-volatile memory. Yeah, ok, I'm being picky here, but a little insertion of technical info can't hurt. Then again perhaps I am missing a certain usage of terms. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 12:24:15 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Tapping tempo --> MIDI Clock Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 6 Feb 1997, Kim Flint wrote: > wow, a cyclone user! When I was at Gibson no one really knew what this > thing did, but people were still buying it every now and then. I remember > being at trade shows and meeting fanatical cyclone users. You thought > looping was a niche..... Can somebody give us a thumbnail description of what the cyclone does? Any relation to the Vortex? ;-] --Andre ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 13:25:47 -0800 From: Kim Flint To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Tapping tempo --> MIDI Clock Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970206212547.0071e7c8@xenon.chromatic.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:24 PM 2/6/97 -0800, you wrote: >On Thu, 6 Feb 1997, Kim Flint wrote: > >> wow, a cyclone user! When I was at Gibson no one really knew what this >> thing did, but people were still buying it every now and then. I remember >> being at trade shows and meeting fanatical cyclone users. You thought >> looping was a niche..... > >Can somebody give us a thumbnail description of what the cyclone does? >Any relation to the Vortex? ;-] > >--Andre > It's a midi arpeggiator. Comes in a cheap plastic box, and has a notoriously difficult user interface with about 4 buttons and a few red leds. From what I understand, once you figure out how to program it, nothing compares to its arpegiating power. It's been out since the late 80's, I think. Since the Vortex does audio and no midi, and the Cyclone does midi and no audio, you probably need a Buchla Lightning to use them together...;-) kim _______________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 VLSI Systems Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 16:31:06 -0400 From: "Robert S. Carter" To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Tapping tempo --> MIDI Clock Message-id: <32FA3F88.66A@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu> Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > wow, a cyclone user! When I was at Gibson no one really knew what this > > thing did, but people were still buying it every now and then. I remember > > being at trade shows and meeting fanatical cyclone users. You thought > > looping was a niche..... > > Can somebody give us a thumbnail description of what the cyclone does? > Any relation to the Vortex? ;-] > > --Andre The oberheim cyclone is a hardware MIDI arpeggiator and sequencer. Arpeggiators have been around since the early days of synthesizers and basically cycle the notes in a chord played on a keyboard. Typical patterns are up, down, up/down, random, etc. and usually are cycled at a fixed rhythm. The cyclone is rather unique in that it took the arpeggiation scheme to an incredible level of complexity. You can program wild and crazy templates with many variations on the up/down theme plus notes can be doubled for arpeggiated harmonies. Rhythms can be programmed as well, which I don't think any other arpeggiator will do. The unit will split a keyboard into zones for two handed arpeggiations or having one hand act as a transposer for arpeggiations generated by the other. And believe me, I have only begun to scratch the surface here- the obertheim web page probably has more info. No, it's not a looper like a Vortex (although it certainly is a MIDI looper) and as pointed out above, the loopers and cycloners probably share a similar mind set. BOB. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 16:31:27 -0800 (PST) From: Paolo Valladolid To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Bananas Echoplex Page Message-Id: <199702070031.QAA13846@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How much more cost would be added to a dedicated looper such as an Echoplex if digital I/O for saving/loading to/from a sampler were added to the looper? Paolo Valladolid --------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ---------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------