------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain Loopers-Delight-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 47 Today's Topics: Re: Philly loop show reviews? [ Jonathan Brainin ] Re: wake up! [ MiqSk8@aol.com ] Had some JamMan weirdness happen yes [ nyfac ] Re: Phila Loop Show big success [ Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, ] Re: wake up! [ Kim Corbet ] Re: wake up! [ matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias ] VW-Mercedes [ matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias ] Re: Boomerang: sample time vs. sampl [ matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias ] VW-Mercedes [ matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias ] Re: Boomerang: sample time vs. sampl [ David_Mitchell@HP-Australia-notes1. ] Re: Boomerang: sample time vs. sampl [ kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) ] Re: Boomerang: sample time vs. sampl [ nyfac ] Re: Boomerang: sample time vs. sampl [ matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias ] Administrivia: Looper's Delight **************** Please send posts to: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Don't send them to the digest! To subscribe/unsubscribe to the Loopers-Delight digest version, send email with "subscribe" (or "unsubscribe") in both the subject and the body, with no signature files, to: Loopers-Delight-d-request@annihilist.com To subscribe/unsubscribe to the real Loopers-Delight list, send email with "subscribe" (or "unsubscribe") in both the subject and the body, with no signature files, to: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Check the web page for archives and lots of other goodies! http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html Your humble list maintainer, Kim Flint kflint@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:59:52 -0500 From: Jonathan Brainin To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Philly loop show reviews? Message-ID: <3336CF28.365B@easyway.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Adam Levin wrote: Does anyone who attended the Philly loop show care to share their impressions of the show? By impressions of the show, I don't mean: "TwangWooooWOOOOOOwOOOOOoooooBEEEEEPTwangWooooWOOOOOOwOOOOO..." 8) -Adam --- "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue, out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one becomes a Hearer." - Chandrakirti Well, it sounds to me like you already heard about the show!!! Anyway, I'll give it a whirl. The evening started with Emergence of Man, who feature Paul Mimlisch on looped Chapman stick accompanied by percussion as well as guitar and flute. EoM's performance was very tight and managed to avoid chaos by limiting the looping to only one instrument. Compositionally, EoM made nice modern ambient music. Although no one in EoM is a crafty, they had the "craftiest" sound of the evening while still able to get beyond Fripp! The next performance was by Fingerpaint, a duo of crafty guitarists. Their sound was perhaps the most suprising of the evening. I was expecting to hear a major Fripp influence from Fingerpaint but was treated to an aural dissertation on the history of Krautrock. Their very capable performance was quite inspirational. So was the opportunity to check out the stuff in their racks. After their performance, Fingerpaint sold their cassette for $5 each. It was an excellent purchase that sounded even better the day after the event. The third performer was Charles Cohen was played a Buchla analog synth as well as an EH 16 scond digital delay and other sundry devices. WOW! Talk about getting beyond Fripp, Charles trancends all of the academic electronic music I've heard. Morton Subotnik, Gordon Mumma, Terry Riley--whoever. Charles blew them all away. His music is decidedly non-commercial, and might even qualify for the difficult listening hour but it is engagingly beautiful music. The fourth act was the group Accidents will Happen. They opened with an extended bass solo that was effected and looped (I think). The drummer was the next to join in followed finally by the guitarist. As things evolved, it became apparent the this was not your usual looping performance. Here the loops were only part of the whole. The music could have worked well without any looping. I felt that AwH sounded like a cross between Polytown, Cream and the Ginger Baker trio (with Frisell and Haden.) I think that the evening was quite successful as were all of the performances. Everyone had a great time and all performers acquited themselves quite favorably. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:47:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" To: Loopers-Delight Subject: RE: echoplex manual/vortex&jamman manual Message-Id: <9703241857.AA02407@beryllium.lexicon.com> about getting the Vortex manual online Kim said:"Hey Greg, any chance Lexicon would let us use the original manual files to make nice digitized versions for the Looper's Delight site? Also, is it ok to put them up there? (I can't imagine why it wouldn't be ok, since it would only be helping you guys out. Might even reduce the customer service call volume a bit, huh?)" I'll see what I can do. Best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:39:46 -0500 (EST) From: MiqSk8@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: wake up! Message-ID: <970324143932_80456196@emout06.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-03-23 22:43:40 EST, you write: << >i have to agree about the pedal- so far the best luck i've had recording has >been to hold it down the entire time and then up to end. in stocking feet >sitting down! kinda surprised by this-is this sensitivity level common? Using a pedal with a looper just takes some practice, I think. You have to learn to tap in time with loop you want to create. When I've demo'ed the plex to people and let them try it, I've often been surprised at how many don't realize that the taps to start and stop the loop are musical events, and must be in time. A lot of people tap the record and start the loop, and then start playing some time after. Or they will stop playing the phrase they want to loop, and then tap the record switch to end the loop after a leisurely pause. >> thanks for remembering me! what i'm talking about is the sensitivity of the pedal itself-one tap acts as 2 and i get a loop .1 seconds long! i'd be able to deal with the timing if the button weren't so sensitive. any tips would be great. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:42:10 -0500 From: nyfac To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Had some JamMan weirdness happen yesterday... Message-ID: <3336D912.7915@nyfac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For the first time last night, I ran my JamMan through the effects loop of my amp rather than feeding it from the pre-amp out and plugging the output of the JamMan into another amp or PA and strange things happened... I would hit an exceptionally loud note (in echo mode) which would cause the input light to flicker red. Instead of getting the usual obnoxious digital clip, the unit started this weird subatomic clicking sound. I was however dismayed to find that while the clicking could be sped up with the triplet/quarter note echo setting, I could not record onto it, or get my straight signal through the JM (because I am not one to waste an obnoxious sound when I find one). Anyone have this happen to them? Trev ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 16:25:24 -0500 (EST) From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Phila Loop Show big success Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" As the guitarist in Accidents will Happen I would like everyone on the list to know what a great job Jim did on organizing this event on Saturday in Philly. We enjoyed playing, the crowd, hospitality and trading ideas with the other musicians. It was a gas. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:39:19 -0600 (CST) From: Kim Corbet To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: wake up! Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > in stocking feet sitting down! kinda surprised by this-is this > sensitivity level common? > >Using a pedal with a looper just takes some practice, I think. > what i'm talking about is the sensitivity of the pedal itself > ...i'd be able to deal with the timing if > the button weren't so sensitive. any tips would be great. ...........Interface is so important. I'm not familiar with the plex, but I had to chuckle at the "sit in socks" image because that's exactly what I do with my jamman. But that was before I found the Boomerang. As luck would have it, I play in a group in Dallas with one of the Cheeses in the Boomerang company (Mike Nelson) and he turned me on to it. Much better control owing to the near no-throw flat switches. (what was Lexicon thinking with these inch-throw black switches? certainly not a real performance environment...and what's up with their mute mode where you come back into the loop who knows where???) Except for a slower sampling rate (cutting out a few highs when I use it with keyboard or percussion as opposed to guitar, bass or trombone) [which allows for loops up to almost 5 minutes in length with max memory], I think the Boomerang is superior to the jamman in every other way, especially in live performance. And it's competitively priced...and, no, I don't get a commission to say any of this. I think it's about half the price of the Oberheim. I AM trying to get all my musician friends to get a boomerang...I think it's that cool. I use it to create horn parts in Rotten Rubber Band (a Texas Swamp Boogie band) and as a more ambient device in various art music (from Fripp/Eno to Cage/Oliveros) style applications. The half/ double speed and reverse on the fly functions can make some swimmingly delicious textures. I guess I like it, huh? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:12:35 +0000 From: Michael Preston To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Philly loop show reviews? Message-ID: <33383FC3.3EFD@erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adam asked: > Does anyone who attended the Philly loop show care to share their > impressions of the show? To which Jonathan Brainin replied so well. Thanks Jonathan. I was there too; I drove up to Philly from Baltimore, and had a great time. Jim Speer and the LionFish staff were very receptive hosts. The space was well suited to the highly appreciative audience. At one point near the beginning of the third set, the owner of the LionFish was wondering out loud behind the bar about whether he would have to stop letting people in the door. It seems that the loop show had brought in so many people that the Philly fire marshall might have disapproved. I don't think the LionFish proprietor ever had to lock the door or turn anyone away; everyone who wanted to come in was welcome. The LionFish served some tasty food, and strong coffee (I especially enjoyed the carrot cake). Jim Speer ran the whole show smoothly, and did an excellent job of running the house PA system. The sound was very clear and dynamic. The music was pure effort and art, mostly improvisational, and well- looped. Each set revealed wonderful struggling to co-create musical ideas and momentary plans for more spontaneous possibility and co-creation. Emergence of Man, Fingerpaint, Charles Cohen, and Accidents Will Happen all rattled my cage in different ways. They were all quite different, yet they all fit together as the evening unfolded. I wanted to hear more at the end of each set. (I heard more Fingerpaint later, on tape, in the car, on the trip home.) Charles Cohen's set was pure delight for me. As I sat craning my neck around the backs of the folks sitting along the bar, trying to catch glimpses of Charles Cohen's quick and precise knob twisting and slider tweaking, I noticed that most of the heads in the place were bobbing to the infectious polyrithmic arpeggiations Charles was massaging out of his Buchla rig. I thought that all of us head bobbers were all drawing loops in the air with the points of our noses. The musicians all seemed to be having a great time as they played through the struggles of improvisation. Bruce Panula, drummer of Accidents Will Happen, had a sometimes beatific smile on his face as he alternately pounded and brushed his way through the mix. I loved it, and I'm ready for more mid-atlantic loop shows. Go Jim! Michael Preston ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:25:43 -0500 From: verner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Living on a rock Message-ID: <333737A7.4EB2@epix.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a good friend from Africa who I turned on to the Echoplex - Samite of Uganda (http://www.fcinet.com/samite/). He has 3 albums out with World music. He uses the Echoples for layering kalimbas and voice. It's totally killer! J. Arif Verner Infinite Sound Studio http://www.epix.net/~verner/ Chris Chovit wrote: > > Bobby wrote: > > >hmmmmm, that's a good one kim. from all the enthnomusicology i absorbed > >during my time in school, i would say yes, in the sense that many types of > >asian and "oriental" musics do have a lot of repetition...and can also be > >very mono-chromatic and harmonically static in some ways...Bob Phelps, are > >you up for answering this one??? :-)_ > >bobby devito/lvx nova > > Yes, there seems to be much repetition in music from Asia....but (from what > little I know about it) it seems to me that the performance of the > repetition is very important, perhaps as a meditation. For example, I > can't quite imagine traditional gamelan performers playing their patterns > into looping devices, then sitting back and drinking tea. Perhaps this is > also what is preventing African musicians from embracing these devices. I > mean, African polyrthythms are very repetitive, but I can't picture a > drum/dance ritual to the beat of a looping device.....but then again, you > never know how things will turn out.... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 01:35:25 -0300 From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: wake up! Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Motley wrote: >My band uses a Boomerang to fatten our sound and >add parts since we consist of only guitar bass and percussion. I only >occasionally bring mine out to a gig, but our sound is wed to our bass >player's layered approach to creating a groove. When you do bring it, what do you do to sync it to the bass player's? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 01:37:30 -0300 From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: VW-Mercedes Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >As a long-time JamMan user who has borrowed an Echoplex Pro for the last 3 >months (supposed to go home tomorrow, sob), here's my german car analogy: >The JamMan is a VW bug, simple, easy to work with, cheap, doesn't do a lot, >but does what it does well and predictably, while the Echoplex is a >Mercedes, very elegant design and interface, expensive, but worth it, and >you really have to know how to drive it to get the benefits. > >OK, end of pointless automotive analogies... Not pointless, but are you saying that it is more difficult to drive a Mercedes? I think its is nicer AND easyer. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 01:39:00 -0300 From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Boomerang: sample time vs. sample rate Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dave Mitchell said >...I'd be choosing between having MIDI control >and some extra features (on the Echoplex), and saving $US150 or so ... Have a closer look at these "some extra features" and try to imagine playing. I think they are rather "many fundamental"! Matthias ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 02:34:49 -0300 From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: VW-Mercedes Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >... while the Echoplex is a >Mercedes, very elegant design and interface, expensive, but worth it... I should have thanked you for this discription in the first place. Matthias ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 97 19:19:48 +1000 From: David_Mitchell@HP-Australia-notes1.om.hp.com To: matthias@bahianet.com.br Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Boomerang: sample time vs. sample rate Message-Id: <"102398:1*"@MHS> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Lotus" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit G'day Matthias and everyone else, Thanks for your reply. Using the car analogy that's floating around at the moment, I'm in the position of the VW driver: "I've seen those big Mercedes around and they sure look nice, but my 2nd hand VW cost me $50 and it goes, well, most of the time. It uses more oil than petrol, it's got 4 bald tyres, it leaks in the rain, but it still gets me where I'm going sooner or later... Why I should spend $50k on a Mercedes when all it gives me is some nice leather seats?" Hopefully, you get my drift... Having not used anything more powerful than a Boss pedal for looping, the benefits of the Echoplex just don't seem to me to warrant the extra expense. Realtime MIDI control seems to be the single big plus as I'm already using an ART X-15 for controlling other stuff, but a tradeoff is that at street prices I could just about buy two Boomerangs for the price of an Echoplex. This would give me the ability to layer two separate loops on top of each other with realtime control of the volume of each which (I'm pretty sure) the Echoplex can't do. I don't have any problem with spending extra dollars for a better piece of gear, but I'm faced with the same decision I had when buying my first guitar: do I buy the cheap and nasty model, or pay up for something better when I don't really understand what "better" means? I know NOW that I was right to spend the extra money, but it was a tough call at the time. What "advanced" features of the Echoplex do you actually use in real life, and what do you use them for? Dave Mitchell matthias@bahianet.com.br/HP-Singapore/mimegw34 03/25/97 02:39 PM To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com/HP-Singapore/mimegw34 @ SGP-GW1 cc: matthias@bahianet.com.br/HP-Singapore/mimegw34 @ SGP-GW1 Subject: Re: Boomerang: sample time vs. sample rate Dave Mitchell said >...I'd be choosing between having MIDI control >and some extra features (on the Echoplex), and saving $US150 or so ... Have a closer look at these "some extra features" and try to imagine playing. I think they are rather "many fundamental"! Matthias ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 02:53:54 -0800 From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, matthias@bahianet.com.br Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Boomerang: sample time vs. sample rate Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 7:19 PM 3/25/97, David_Mitchell@HP-Australia-notes1.om.hp.com wrote: >G'day Matthias and everyone else, > >Thanks for your reply. Using the car analogy that's floating around at the >moment, I'm in the position of the VW driver: > >"I've seen those big Mercedes around and they sure look nice, but my 2nd >hand VW cost me $50 and it goes, well, most of the time. It uses more oil >than petrol, it's got 4 bald tyres, it leaks in the rain, but it still gets >me where I'm going sooner or later... Why I should spend $50k on a >Mercedes when all it gives me is some nice leather seats?" Uh, this car analogy is a little out of hand..... The echoplex is not a 1000 times more expensive than a boomerang! I really hate to get into some sort of echoplex vs boomerang war, but we need a little reality here: With full memory expansion and a footpedal, you would pay about $725 for the echoplex. The Boomerang website lists a fully expanded boomerang at $599. If you apply some sort of "street price" discount, I imagine it would drop to about $450 - $500. So that is just $125 - $275 different! And if you don't need a pedal for the echoplex, they are significantly closer in price.... For that extra $125-275, what does the echoplex have that the Boomerang does not? Far better audio quality, an incredibly intuitive and musical interface, a display that shows loop time, multiple numbers, loop numbers, sync points, levels, etc., unlimited overdubs, variable feedback with realtime control, multiply, insert, replace, multiple loops, loop copying, multiple undo's, full midi functionality, a wide variety of synchronization possibilities, (including between echoplexes for loop jams), quantization features, sampler features, rugged internal power supply, etc., etc., etc. Not to mention lots of subtleties that just make it fun and easy to use. The echoplex has a very deep, musical interface and feature set. Everything about the echoplex can be done in realtime musical situations. It has been very carefully crafted and evolved over many years, with input from a wide variety of musicians who have logged thousands and thousands of hours performing with it and it's predecessors, and suggesting refinements. I think this shows, and that is why users love the things. To me, it is well worth the price, and compared to something like an eventide harmonizer, it's downright cheap. Now, I'm not here to knock the boomerang. It is a nifty little device, and it serves a useful purpose in the market as a simpler, less expensive alternative. My main complaint about the Boomerang, believe it or not, is that it is too expensive. In my opinion, the simple feature set and low audio quality do not warrant a price over maybe $150. At a sub $200 price point, it could be a much more successful product. But in the $300-$600 price range, I probably wouldn't buy it. And I'm now 3 cars up the scale from the beat-up VW I was driving a few years ago, so $300-$600 isn't a big deal to me. These days, anything priced over $200 should have full bandwidth audio. The latest digital audio codecs offer stereo in and out in 20 bit resolution at 48khz, come in small little packages, are easy to interface to any processor, and cost less than $5 to a manufacturer. There's really no excuse for low quality digital audio these days, and consumers should demand better. With a 16khz sampling rate, equating to 6-7khz bandwidth at best, the Boomerang is really behind on this. That's where digital audio was about 15 years ago. I don't know why they designed it that way (uh, why did you anyway?), but it is certaily the most critical thing for the Boomerang guys to improve upon! That and bringing the price down would make it a much cooler product, I think. Think about the Jamman: at $200, everyone wanted it..... Oh, and the wall wart absolutely must go!!!! >Having not used anything more powerful than a Boss pedal for looping, the >benefits of the Echoplex just don't seem to me to warrant the extra >expense. Realtime MIDI control seems to be the single big plus as I'm >already using an ART X-15 for controlling other stuff, but a tradeoff is >that at street prices I could just about buy two Boomerangs for the price >of an Echoplex. This would give me the ability to layer two separate loops >on top of each other with realtime control of the volume of each which (I'm >pretty sure) the Echoplex can't do. The Boomerang doesn't offer any synchronization features, so you wouldn't actually be able to use two of them very well....It's simple with the plex of course, the sync features let you hook multiple units up as a multitrack looper. A bit over your VW-scale budget though, I imagine! :-) And really, if multiple loops at once are what you want, you should check out the Akai Remix16. That lets you record 16 loops in real-time and use them in a multi-timbral fashion. A bit limited in other areas, though, but maybe it does what you need. >I don't have any problem with spending extra dollars for a better piece of >gear, but I'm faced with the same decision I had when buying my first >guitar: do I buy the cheap and nasty model, or pay up for something better >when I don't really understand what "better" means? I know NOW that I was >right to spend the extra money, but it was a tough call at the time. That's really the key. Just using a boss pedal, you really don't know what looping can really be about. You have a taste, but until you get into something more sophisticated, you won't really know how important some of the features are. Or how important they are to you, really. To continue with lame analogies, it's the difference between common salt and pepper and Thai curry dishes. If you've only had the former, you'll have a tough time imagining the later..... The echoplex has the kind of depth that you can grow into for years, much like a good musical instrument. If you talk to some of the users who have owned them for a while, you'll see that they are still coming up with new things to do with it, and the echoplex is able to meet their needs as their looping abilities grow and evolve. >What "advanced" features of the Echoplex do you actually use in real life, >and what do you use them for? > >Dave Mitchell > > I think what Matthias was saying, which is important, is that we are not necessarily talking about advanced features. Tapped delay lengths, infinite Overdub, variably controlled feedback, and multiply are basic looping functions. For me, I have to add multiple loops, synchronization, reverse, retriggering, and multiple levels of undo. I use those functions pretty much all the time, and consider them essential to what I do in real life looping. They don't seem advanced to me, but then I've been doing this for a while now. Feedback control is so essential, that the Boomerang's lack of pretty much makes it useless to me, regardless of audio quality. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad the Boomerang exists on the market, despite my emotional connection to the echoplex. The more products and companies out there for loopers, the more noise and attention we'll have on looping. It would be absurd for Oberheim and Boomerang to compete against each other for the tiny number of people currently interested in this. The real goal for both, and all the rest of us too, is to bring new people in! Give them both a spin if you can, and then decide which is right for you. Just stirrin' the waters.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 08:55:19 -0500 From: nyfac To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Boomerang: sample time vs. sample rate Message-ID: <3337D947.DD5@nyfac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My local shop sell them for $475.... Trev ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:35:53 -0300 From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Boomerang: sample time vs. sample rate Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >G'day Matthias and everyone else, > >Thanks for your reply. Using the car analogy that's floating around at the >moment, I'm in the position of the VW driver: Me too, actually. It is a 12 year old Parati, which is like a Golf (=Rabbit) station wagon. Its somewhat rusty but basically solid with what is necessary. The beagle (here "Fusca") has been out of production for a while because its not economic, but now its produced again. Not with the old success anymore, though. >"I've seen those big Mercedes around and they sure look nice there are only about two of them here, in the whole city. But thats enough about cars now :-) , but my 2nd >hand VW cost me $50 and it goes, well, most of the time. It uses more oil >than petrol, it's got 4 bald tyres, it leaks in the rain, but it still gets >me where I'm going sooner or later... Why I should spend $50k on a >Mercedes when all it gives me is some nice leather seats?" Price difference it not that big. But, sure, I understand it. I even understand someone that sais to himself that a Mercedes is harder to drive, just to feel better with his VW. :-) >Hopefully, you get my drift... > >Having not used anything more powerful than a Boss pedal for looping, the >benefits of the Echoplex just don't seem to me to warrant the extra >expense. Realtime MIDI control seems to be the single big plus as I'm >already using an ART X-15 for controlling other stuff, but a tradeoff is >that at street prices I could just about buy two Boomerangs for the price >of an Echoplex. This would give me the ability to layer two separate loops >on top of each other with realtime control of the volume of each which (I'm >pretty sure) the Echoplex can't do. Unless you are only interested in "clowdy" music, I think one loop with lots of overdubs with good quality serves a lot more than two unsyced with limited audio quality (I never tried a Rang, but I can imagine more or less) >What "advanced" features of the Echoplex do you actually use in real life, >and what do you use them for? The feature that made me spend years of my life to build the machine were FeedBack with good resolution up to exactly infinite repetition, Mulitiply, Brother Sync and Undo. Maybe this is not the place to explain what they do. Those are the fundamental ones. Advanced there are a lot that I do not use, but clients asked for. I mean its not luxury that I put in to give some shine, but things I originally rejected to do and users convinced me that they make sense. Matthias --------------------------------