------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain Loopers-Delight-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 51 Today's Topics: isolated here in Hollywood [ Michael Peters ] Re: isolated here in Hollywood [ Francis Leach ] West Coast Loop Show (Take 2) [ The Man Himself ] RE: ancient tape squeak [ Michael Peters To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: isolated here in Hollywood Message-ID: <199703300725_MC2-1375-A401@compuserve.com> hi Francis, >I wonder how I relate to all of you with the way I came into looping (writing my >own software, etc.) without much knowledge of what was going on at the >Guitar Center, etc., but instead, developing looping concepts in my Ivory >Tower and musing on Steve Reich's music, etc. and how to do something >similar with computer source code which I was writing Yes it might seem like we're looping guitarists only but there are a couple of other instrumentalists here, we've had quite a number of discussions about computer-generated or -controlled loops, and the minimalists are without doubt one of the major influences for most of us. I'd love to learn more about you and your work on our "Personal Profiles" page - if you want to be present on this page, please send the info to me, and I'll work it in. I'd also love to hear your opinion about my little "history of looping" article from our website - you seem to be quite familiar with the minimalist roots of looping, and maybe you can correct or contribute something. Michael Peters mpeters@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters HOP - Fractals in Motion ..."the only screen saver you'll ever want" http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/hop.htm -----Original Message----- From: INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Sent: Saturday, March 29, 1997 3:56 PM To: INTERNET:LOOPERS-DELIGHT@ANNIHILIST.COM Subject: Re: Looping in London 10-iv-97 Sender: lists@slip.net Received: from ferret (ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6]) by arl-img-1.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id JAA17013; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 09:49:58 -0500 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wAzS4-0003DF-00; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 06:49:52 -0800 Message-ID: <333D2A3D.249F@lafn.org> Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 06:42:05 -0800 From: Francis Leach Organization: lafn.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Looping in London 10-iv-97 References: <23054.199703290923@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WPIsJB.A.q9C.jvSPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2433 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: 100041.247@compuserve.com Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 06:49:52 -0800 Dr M. P. Hughes wrote: > > David O'Torn - I mean Orton - said > > >>Just a brief note to say I will be adopting a solo loopist stance on April > >>10th at the the Clock Tower in Croydon, London (UK) from 1pm till 2pm (lunch > >>time) > > Another UK looper! Does that make, oh, about 3 of us? > > Michael > > Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, > Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. > "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb 3 in London! And one, me, feeling isolated from you all in the newsgroup. Why? Because I don't use the same looping software and the same looping hardware that most of you use . . . let me explain. Though I am a professional musician, in 1983 I became a computer addict and began to write my own source code. The first extremely simple program I wrote was a BASIC program to play Bach's Prelude in C (well-tempered) on my /CPM Toshiba machine that played on the primite built in speaker . . . not very sophisticated . . . But then, in the next few years, I began to take college programming classes in the following languages: LISP, C, BASIC, Prolog, Logo, Pascal, etc. And tho I then had no MIDI setup, I was fascinated and quite creative in writing looping "space" music that used a combination of aleatoric and constraining devices to create a patterned music that was based on chance patterns . . . my favorite composing influences, were Steve Reich, Terry Riley, Philip Glass, etc. all of whom I became extremely interested in and how they "looped", while I spent 9 years writing classical music reviews for the Pasadena Star News. My most challenging writing about the concerts I attended were about LaMonte Young, John Cage, etc. I even attacked Cage at a party in Pasadena, in his honor, by approaching him and asking "Why don't you believe in patterned music!" His charming response to me was by smiling and saying while extending his hand in a most disarming manner, "Perhaps when you know me better!" I find him socially delightful, but though I didn't tell him, I still disliked his music immensely. But I did find people like La Monte Young, whom I interviewed, and Steve Reich . . . very intrigueing indeed . . . So during those using, I began to form theories and opinions about looping (For loop1 = 1 to 4 . . . . .next loop1)! that were reflected in my composition source code. And then, about three years ago, I bought my first polyphonic synthesizer, an old Kurzweil K1000). Years previously, I had obtained an early Roland monophonic synthesizer, and took classes at Pasadena City College on a Moog) . . . Well, I installed MIDI cards in PCs, the next couple of years, sold some computers (I had picked up many in thrift stores) to the Electronic Music Laboratory I became involved with at LACC (Los Angeles City College), began to both continue with the aleatoric music source code I both wrote myself and was a consultant on with another programmer from IBM, on and on and on . . . It's to long to tell all this, right? But to shorten my background story: I continued to be obsessed with the principle of looping, and how, in recursive usage of looping (ala "Godel, Escher, Bach"), I could gradually change the musical sound loops ((MIDI now on a Kurzweil, Roland W-50 drum machine, Cakewalk software), as they occurred). So, we arrive at this week, and I am in the midst of creating a memorial looping piece (with my sometime composing partner) based on "Heavens-Gate". It has both an elegaic sound similar to Albinoni's famous funeral piece, and Samuel Barber's "Adagio for Strings", and a recurring space music feel . . . .!!! Well, anyway, I'm isolated here in Hollywood, from you guys and I read your messages about certain looping software and hardware, and I wonder how I relate to all of you with the way I came into looping (writing my own software, etc.) without much knowledge of what was going on at the Guitar Center, etc., but instead, developing looping concepts in my Ivory Tower and musing on Steve Reich's music, etc. and how to do something similar with computer source code which I was writing . . . it did work and sometimes the bugs in my code produced the more interesting sonic results than my cleaner code . . . . Happy Easter! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 97 09:53:14 -0500 From: "" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: change loop speed via MIDI? Message-Id: <9703301453.AA28520@lucille.Princeton.EDU> hey loopers, I'm new to the group and I have a question: Is there a loop machine available that allows dynamic "detuning" (or changing the speed of a loop) via MIDI in performance while overdubbung? It would be nice if the memory of the device was expandable to > 30 seconds. My old deltalab echotron can be dynamically controlled but no MIDI and the memory is small. I talked to TC Electronics and they said that the memory chips for the 2090 were not available any more so it would be very difficult to upgrade beyond the installed 4 secs. The person I talked to knew that aspects of the modulation of the loop could be controlled via MIDI but wasn't sure if there was full expressive control of the loop speed. The information I have seen about the Akai remix talks about a bend function but I don't know how flexible or MIDI addressable it is, or whether the detuning works while overlaying. I guess what I am looking for would be a MIDI version of the electroharmonics 16 second delay with more memory ( and less of a "collectors item" status). thanks! any tips would be appreciated! Curtis Bahn crb@music.princeton.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 08:07:58 -0800 From: Francis Leach To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: isolated here in Hollywood Message-ID: <333E8FDE.4D46@lafn.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael Peters wrote: > > hi Francis, > > >I wonder how I relate to all of you with the way I came into looping > (writing my > >own software, etc.) without much knowledge of what was going on at the > >Guitar Center, etc., but instead, developing looping concepts in my Ivory > >Tower and musing on Steve Reich's music, etc. and how to do something > >similar with computer source code which I was writing > > Yes it might seem like we're looping guitarists only but there are a couple > of other instrumentalists here, we've had quite a number of discussions > about computer-generated or -controlled loops, and the minimalists are > without doubt one of the major influences for most of us. > > I'd love to learn more about you and your work on our "Personal Profiles" > page - if you want to be present on this page, please send the info to me, > and I'll work it in. > > I'd also love to hear your opinion about my little "history of looping" > article from our website - you seem to be quite familiar with the > minimalist roots of looping, and maybe you can correct or contribute > something. > > Michael Peters > mpeters@compuserve.com > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters > > HOP - Fractals in Motion ..."the only screen saver you'll ever want" > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/hop.htm > > -----Original Message----- > From: INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Sent: Saturday, March 29, 1997 3:56 PM > To: INTERNET:LOOPERS-DELIGHT@ANNIHILIST.COM > Subject: Re: Looping in London 10-iv-97 > > Sender: lists@slip.net > Received: from ferret (ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6]) by > arl-img-1.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) > id JAA17013; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 09:49:58 -0500 > Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) > id 0wAzS4-0003DF-00; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 06:49:52 -0800 > Message-ID: <333D2A3D.249F@lafn.org> > Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 06:42:05 -0800 > From: Francis Leach > Organization: lafn.org > X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win16; I) > MIME-Version: 1.0 > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Subject: Re: Looping in London 10-iv-97 > References: <23054.199703290923@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Resent-Message-ID: <"WPIsJB.A.q9C.jvSPz"@ferret> > Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2433 > X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Precedence: list > Resent-Sender: SmartList > Resent-To: 100041.247@compuserve.com > Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 06:49:52 -0800 > > Dr M. P. Hughes wrote: > > > > David O'Torn - I mean Orton - said > > > > >>Just a brief note to say I will be adopting a solo loopist stance on > April > > >>10th at the the Clock Tower in Croydon, London (UK) from 1pm till 2pm > (lunch > > >>time) > > > > Another UK looper! Does that make, oh, about 3 of us? > > > > Michael > > > > Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine > Bldg, > > Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, > U.K. > > "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb > > 3 in London! And one, me, feeling isolated from you all in the > newsgroup. Why? > > Because I don't use the same looping software and the same looping > hardware that most of you use . . . let me explain. > > Though I am a professional musician, in 1983 I became a computer addict > and began to write my own source code. The first extremely simple > program I wrote was a BASIC program to play Bach's Prelude in C > (well-tempered) on my /CPM Toshiba machine that played on the primite > built in speaker . . . not very sophisticated . . . > > But then, in the next few years, I began to take college programming > classes in the following languages: LISP, C, BASIC, Prolog, Logo, > Pascal, etc. > > And tho I then had no MIDI setup, I was fascinated and quite creative in > writing looping "space" music that used a combination of aleatoric and > constraining devices to create a patterned music that was based on chance > patterns . . . my favorite composing influences, were Steve Reich, Terry > Riley, Philip Glass, etc. all of whom I became extremely interested in > and how they "looped", while I spent 9 years writing classical music > reviews for the Pasadena Star News. My most challenging writing about > the concerts I attended were about LaMonte Young, John Cage, etc. I even > attacked Cage at a party in Pasadena, in his honor, by approaching him > and asking "Why don't you believe in patterned music!" His charming > response to me was by smiling and saying while extending his hand in a > most disarming manner, "Perhaps when you know me better!" I find him > socially delightful, but though I didn't tell him, I still disliked his > music immensely. But I did find people like La Monte Young, whom I > interviewed, and Steve Reich . . . very intrigueing indeed . . . > > So during those using, I began to form theories and opinions about > looping (For loop1 = 1 to 4 . . . . .next loop1)! that were reflected in > my composition source code. And then, about three years ago, I bought my > first polyphonic synthesizer, an old Kurzweil K1000). Years previously, > I had obtained an early Roland monophonic synthesizer, and took classes > at Pasadena City College on a Moog) . . . > > Well, I installed MIDI cards in PCs, the next couple of years, sold some > computers (I had picked up many in thrift stores) to the Electronic Music > Laboratory I became involved with at LACC (Los Angeles City College), > began to both continue with the aleatoric music source code I both wrote > myself and was a consultant on with another programmer from IBM, on and > on and on . . . > > It's to long to tell all this, right? > > But to shorten my background story: I continued to be obsessed with the > principle of looping, and how, in recursive usage of looping (ala "Godel, > Escher, Bach"), I could gradually change the musical sound loops ((MIDI > now on a Kurzweil, Roland W-50 drum machine, Cakewalk software), as they > occurred). > > So, we arrive at this week, and I am in the midst of creating a memorial > looping piece (with my sometime composing partner) based on > "Heavens-Gate". It has both an elegaic sound similar to Albinoni's > famous funeral piece, and Samuel Barber's "Adagio for Strings", and a > recurring space music feel . . . .!!! > > Well, anyway, I'm isolated here in Hollywood, from you guys and I read > your messages about certain looping software and hardware, and I wonder > how I relate to all of you with the way I came into looping (writing my > own software, etc.) without much knowledge of what was going on at the > Guitar Center, etc., but instead, developing looping concepts in my Ivory > Tower and musing on Steve Reich's music, etc. and how to do something > similar with computer source code which I was writing . . . it did work > and sometimes the bugs in my code produced the more interesting sonic > results than my cleaner code . . . . > >Thank you Michael Peters, very much: I'll very definitely find the personal profiles which I suppose are at www.Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com and fill one out . . . I'm also looking forward to reading your essay on the history of looping. I appreciate your answer . . . Ciao Francis Leach ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 08:13:13 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: West Coast Loop Show (Take 2) Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi all -- After hearing the enthusiastic reviews of the East Coast loop shows, I'm tempted to re-suggest my initial idea for trying to stage a West Coast version. To re-cap, the notion of staging a multi-artist looping concert in California was first bandied about the list at the end of last October, with the initial idea being to try and bring together any and all interested parties for a multi-artist show. Before long, it was suggested that this be divided into two seperate shows, one for Northern Cali and one for the SoCal region, owing to both the logistical hassles of trying to find a single convenient localle and the problem of trying to squeeze around 10 performers onto a single bill (one of the first comments from interested individuals seemed to be that the initially proposed limitation of an hour for a set length would be undesirably restrictive). At any rate, the idea never really got off the ground, owing no doubt to the considerable difficulties in organizing a show of this sort. Still, we now have real-world evidence that it can, in fact, be done. So who here on the West Coast is interested and/or willing to try and make it happen? --Andre ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 14:04:53 -0500 (EST) From: KemMc@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Loopers-Delight-d Digest V97 #50 Message-ID: <970330140452_738993802@emout15.mail.aol.com> Hi, fellow loopers I have been looking for a contact surface transducer or contact driver, which is a small device that you attach to a wall, glass, anything and apply a sound source, and it turns the wall or glass into a speaker. I want to feed my guitar signal to this tranduces and hook the transducer to my guitar , instant feedback of great loops. I hope the looper collective can find one of these contact drivers it would be good for all. Thanks KemMc@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 14:33:22 -0500 From: Michael Peters To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: isolated here in Hollywood Message-ID: <199703301433_MC2-1378-9BC5@compuserve.com> Francis, > I'll very definitely find the personal profiles which I suppose are at > www.Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com and fill one out almost ... the main Looper's Delight page is http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html and the profiles and the little history essay are somewhere on subpages, you'll find them. Michael Peters mpeters@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters HOP - Fractals in Motion ..."the only screen saver you'll ever want" http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/hop.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 14:11:28 From: pk@mainstring.win.net (Pat Kirtley) To: PainPete@aol.com CC: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: ancient tape squeak Message-ID: <983@mainstring.win.net> PainPete@aol.com wrote: >>This problem can occur under certain circumstances even with >>well-adjusted machines and high quality tapes. But there is a lot of tape >>made in the mid and late 70's that is now shedding like crazy due to >>binder formulation problems. That's a widespread problem. > > >I'm not advocating this, but I've heard annecdotal evidence that with old >reel tapes with this problem, baking them (yes! in the oven!) stabilized the >binder enough to make a transfer to newer tape. Time and/or temperature >information is missing from this story, but I bet it's well below what's >required to melt plastic! > and Kim Corbet wrote: >....okay, this sounded bizarre when I first heard about it, but I believe >Bruce Richardson (73422.3357@compuserv.com) had a recent studio project >where he had to salvage an archiv of ancient tapes and used a, get this, >baking process in his kitchen oven...that somehow re-applied the material >to the tape. I don't know temps or other details, but I'm sure >he'd be happy to share his family recipe. Yes! I've heard of this technique before too. I believe the method was originated by an archivist at the Library of Congress. I went searching on the web for references and found this at: http://sul-server-2.stanford.edu/byauth/wheeler/wheeler2.html "Regardless of what format is used, the following are the most common tape problems: 1.Sticky residue or powder on tape, which makes it difficult to play the tape. 2.Binder degradation (oxide flaking off the basefilm). 3.Physical damage due to poor tape recorder maintenance. The sticky tape/powder problem can be temporarily relieved by baking the tape for at least 8 hours at 55ƒC (130ƒF) and an extreme case may require 18-24 hours. A convection oven is recommended for this procedure. This heating process makes the tape usable for a few weeks and can be repeated many times. I recommend copying any tapes that develop this problem because their long-term durability is questionable. The second problem, binder degradation, can sometimes be reversed by storing the tapes in a cold and dry environment for a couple of weeks. The third problem of tape damage is usually caused by one edge of the tape being curled and is the result of an improperly aligned tape transport. A severe case of edge damage, pleating, or creasing is usually difficult to play, but I have developed a method of correcting the problem so that the tape is at least playable..." The rest of the article at the web site is interesting, and there is also another good article at: http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/cpa/reports/sound.html entitled "The Care and Handling of Recorded Sound Materials", by: Music Division / National Library Of Canada I would caution that this drying method appears to be workable for polyester, etc. based tape formulations from the 70's and 80's, but for tapes made before the mid 60's, which use an acetate base, baking and drying could cause severe tape breakage problems. Hope this helps! Pat Kirtley ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 23:02:43 +0200 From: Robert van der Kamp To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Where to order a Plex Message-ID: <333ED4F3.51A8AA3A@pi.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, Does any one of you know where I can order an EchoPlex Digital Pro? This is Holland here, so I need it to be shipped too. The Gibson web pages say they can only take orders from within the USA. :-( I would like to know the price they go for in the States. Ordering such stuff in a music shop in Holland *may* be much more expensive, even when paying shipment, customs and taxes. So that's what I would like to find out now. Thanks, Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 17:52:28 -0500 From: Michael Peters To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: ancient tape squeak Message-ID: <199703301752_MC2-137A-F19@compuserve.com> I'd never have thought to get such a wealth of replies to my problem. Great! >The sticky tape/powder problem can be temporarily relieved by baking the >tape for at least 8 hours at 550C (1300F) and an extreme case may require >18-24 hours. My simple non-scientist brain has problems believing this. It says, tapes are made of coated plastic, and plastic is known to lose its shape and eventually burn when being heated, as everyone knows who has left a vinyl recording in the car on a hot summer's day and found it turned into some sort of sculpture after some hours. Why does excessive heat (and I'd call 8 hours of 550C excessive heat) not turn the tape into an unusable lump of stinking plastic? Michael Peters mpeters@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters HOP - Fractals in Motion ..."the only screen saver you'll ever want" http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/hop.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 15:08:02 -0800 From: krevis@blarg.net (Kurt Revis) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: ancient tape squeak Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>The sticky tape/powder problem can be temporarily relieved by baking the >>tape for at least 8 hours at 550C (1300F) and an extreme case may require >>18-24 hours. > >Why does excessive heat (and I'd call 8 >hours of 550C excessive heat) not turn the tape into an unusable lump of >stinking plastic? I think they meant 55 C (130 F), which is much more believeable. Looks like something turned a degree symbol into a zero somewhere. -- Kurt Revis This world is not my home krevis@blarg.net I'm just passing through ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 16:29:55 -0800 From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Where to order a Plex Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Hi all, > >Does any one of you know where I can order an EchoPlex Digital Pro? >This is Holland here, so I need it to be shipped too. The Gibson >web pages say they can only take orders from within the USA. :-( You should contact Oberheim directly and ask them for an appropriate dealer. I'm quite certain there is one in Holland, but have no idea who it is. Oberheim's address/phone: Oberheim Synthesizers 732 Kevin Court Oakland, CA 94633 USA 510-635-9633 >I would like to know the price they go for in the States. Ordering >such stuff in a music shop in Holland *may* be much more expensive, >even when paying shipment, customs and taxes. So that's what I >would like to find out now. I think street price in the US is typically around $550 for the basic 12.5 second unit. The memory required for expanding the loop time is the ordinary SIMMs for computers. Upgrading to 200 seconds generally costs $60-$100 for the simms and is easy to do yourself. The footpedal price varies dramatically (between $100 and nothing) depending on whether the dealer is using it as a tool to entice you to buy or make himself a little extra profit. hope this helps! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com --------------------------------