------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain Loopers-Delight-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 56 Today's Topics: Re: Rack mounted Mixer [ Kim Corbet ] clay looping [ RA336@aol.com ] Re: delta-lab echotron [ "T.W. Hartnett" ] Re: visual looping [ SoundFNR@aol.com ] RE: delta-lab echotron [ "Sellon, Bob" ] Re: visual looping [ improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) ] RE: delta-lab echotron [ kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) ] Re: delta-lab echotron [ Aviansongs@aol.com ] Rackmount Mixer [ "Steven R. Murrell" ] oops... [ erwill@ix.netcom.com (James E Willi ] Delta Lab schematics [ "Sellon, Bob" ] Digitec expansion/Jamman update [ "Sellon, Bob" ] Re: Digitec expansion/Jamman update [ "Stephen P. Goodman" ] More on that feedback thing [ nyfac ] Re: More on that feedback thing [ Roland Eberle To: "Mikell D. Nelson" cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Rack mounted Mixer Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > Absolutely. Mackie 1604. I have one in my home studio and it sounds > good and is loaded with features/quality for the price. I think used > ones go for $500-$700. Check out their other models, too. (hey, motmonster)....Mackie's the real deal. I have both 1604 for studio or big pa stuff and the 1402 for personal rig needs. I would think they have rack hardware available for the 1402...I bought a rack box specifically for the 1604 and have been very happy with it in all applications. The 1402 was $475 new...the 1604 was used for $650. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 17:06:35 -0400 (EDT) From: MiqSk8@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: visual looping Message-ID: <970409170551_547408054@emout07.mail.aol.com> synchronicity raising it's head again... i loop and my wife is a dedicated "fimette"(polymer clay manipulator). very wild! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 16:07:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: delta-lab echotron Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 9 Apr 1997, wrote: > > Hello, > > Does anybody know how to hack an ADM4096 to add more memory or > features? (or know a technician that could?) I opened it up and > it looks like its using 16 chips soldered into the board for its > current 4 sec delay time (chips say "MOSTEK 8328 MK4564N-20"). I'd be VERY leery of trying such an operation. Old equipment like the Echotron is generally a one-off affair, and not meant to be upgraded. Unless you have some explicit reason for wanting to upgrade the Echotron (like its user interface, or superior sound quality), I'd say spend your money on a JamMan or some other long delay instead. Toying with the innards of the Echotron may well destroy it, since it probably has a number of static-sensitive MOSFET digital circuits. > Is Deltalab still in business? if so does anyone have their number? Nope, they went out of business many years ago. Your Echotron is a genuine vintage device now. Enjoy it... I have one myself, and I prefer its sound over supposedly higher-fidelity modern devices. -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.net */ -Charles Fort ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:44:46 -0400 (EDT) From: RA336@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: clay looping Message-ID: <970410094429_-1234711872@emout02.mail.aol.com> Sarajane you wrote: > I use a process called caning, in which colored >clays are >placed to form visual images, then squeezed and manipulated >into a long > tube of clay, which can be sliced to form hundreds of >intricate repititions. - this sounds alot like the technique I saw being used by a ceramicist named Jane Peiser while I was studying at Penland. Did you go there, or pick up your technique elsewhere, or stumble upon it yourself? best RA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 97 11:17:50 -0000 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Subject: Re: delta-lab echotron Message-Id: <199704101619.JAA08352@scv1.apple.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > Anyone know where a schematic for >this beast might be had? There's a Echotron for sale at the co-op where I practice, which does have the original documentation. I'll have a look tonight to see what info they included. Travis Hartnett ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 13:12:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Adam Levin To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Another new DOD pedal Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 7 Apr 1997, Adam Levin wrote: > I just received the new catalog from Veneman's in Rockville, MD. They have > a new DOD pedal model FX-96 which claims to sport a classic analog tape > delay sound. No mention of max delay time. Runs $95. Anyone seen one of > these or have any info? Just as a follow up, I had to pick up some equipment out near Veneman's today. They don't have this box in stock yet and the salesman didn't know the specs. -Adam --- "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue, out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one becomes a Hearer." - Chandrakirti ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 18:07:00 -0400 (EDT) From: SoundFNR@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: visual looping Message-ID: <970410180516_1951387259@emout07.mail.aol.com> How about pointing a video camera at it's own monitor screen then? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 15:42:00 -0400 From: "Sellon, Bob" To: Loopers-Delight Subject: RE: delta-lab echotron Message-Id: <9704102121.AA25676@beryllium.lexicon.com> Curtis, You are in luck. It turns out that, way Delta Lab implemented their delay lines makes it quite easy to expand the memory. In Delta Lab products, the A-D converters spit out a single serial stream of 1s and 0s which is fed to the memory chips sequentially (into the first chip, out of the first chip into the second chip, etc..). On the simpler products, they derive their delay times by simply tapping off the serial data stream between the memory chips or at the output of the last chip. To expand the memory, you simply add more memory chips in the chain. There is a cheat you can use to add the memory chips as well, though it's not very pretty. Get some additional memory chips of the same type and lift pins 2 and 14 so they are sticking straight out of the side of the chip. Place the new chips on top of the existing chips, soldering all of the pins of the new chip to the same pins of the chip it is sitting on. You then connect the input (pin 2) and outputs (pin 14) of each of the new chips together forming a chain. Then all you have to do is connect a wire from the output of the last original chip to the input of the first new chip to add the new chips into the existing chain. The last step is to change the data stream that is feeding the AD converter. This is usually the output from one of memory chips in the chain selected by an electronic or mechanical switch. You can brute force it here to permanently add in the new memory by cutting the etch coming from the last original chip and routing it to the new last chip in the chain. The other alternative is to add another selector switch of some sort. I'm not interested in doing this kind of work myself but I do have schematics and would be willing to send someone a copy and walk them through it. Let me know. Also, I am in the process of putting together a web site that will include procedures for various mods I have done including this one. I'll send a message around when it is operational. Bob Sellon Lexicon/Stec phone: 617-280-0395 (days) 508-670-6098 (evenings (preferred)) bsellon@lexicon.com ---------- From: Loopers-Delight[SMTP:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 1997 4:17 PM To: Loopers-Delight Subject: delta-lab echotron Hello, Does anybody know how to hack an ADM4096 to add more memory or features? (or know a technician that could?) I opened it up and it looks like its using 16 chips soldered into the board for its current 4 sec delay time (chips say "MOSTEK 8328 MK4564N-20"). Is Deltalab still in business? if so does anyone have their number? thanks! Curtis Bahn crb@music.princeton.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 18:12:44 -0800 From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: visual looping Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >How about pointing a video camera at it's own monitor screen then? Hey, I've got about 2 hours of that on tape. Great stuff! I'm in the midst of dumping it into the computer and editing the best parts in Premiere. Very cool, especially if you slow it way down. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 01:43:08 -0700 From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: delta-lab echotron Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 3:42 PM 4/10/97, Sellon, Bob wrote: >Curtis, > >You are in luck. It turns out that, way Delta Lab implemented their delay Hi Bob- Thanks for bringing your expert knowledge to the list, its great to have you join us! > >I'm not interested in doing this kind of work myself but I do have >schematics and would be willing to send someone a copy and walk them >through it. Let me know. I'd love to have copies of these for the Looper's Delight web page. Do you have any way to scan them? If not, we can arrange for that somehow. Let me know. I'd love to have all these little bits and treasures about old loop devices collected together where anyone can refer to them. >Also, I am in the process of putting together a web site that will >include procedures for various mods I have done including this one. I'll >send a message around when it is operational. > >Bob Sellon Great. If there is anything you would like to contribute to the Looper's Delight pages, we would love to have it! thanks, kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 10:16:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Aviansongs@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: delta-lab echotron Message-ID: <970411101650_-1168193355@emout15.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-04-10 23:07:05 EDT, you write: > You are in luck. It turns out that, way Delta Lab implemented their delay > lines makes it quite easy to expand the memory. In Delta Lab products, > the A-D converters spit out a single serial stream of 1s and 0s which is > fed to the memory chips sequentially (into the first chip, out of the > first chip into the second chip, etc..). On the simpler products, they > derive their delay times by simply tapping off the serial data stream > between the memory chips or at the output of the last chip. To expand the > memory, you simply add more memory chips in the chain. > Hmm... I wonder if the memory of the Digitech RDS 7.6 (or 4000 & 8000) can be expanded as well. If so, what would the average cost of an upgrade be (parts only)? Also, what's the status of the Jamman upgrade? Take care, Marc ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 11:36:47 -0400 From: "Steven R. Murrell" To: "'Loop'" , "'Stickwire (discussion)'" Subject: Rackmount Mixer Message-Id: <199704111535.AA21149@internet-mail2.ford.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just wanted to thank everybody who responded to my inquiry regarding rack-mountable mixers. I am leaning toward the Mackie 1202 mounted onto a rack-mounted shelf. No definite decision yet, though. Also, I had planned to compile all of the suggestions and post to the list but I inadvertently deleted the responses. Sorry. Thanks again everybody!! Steve Murrell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 10:54:00 -0500 From: jspeer@haverford.edu To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Rackmount Mixer Message-Id: <199704111554.LAA13292@acc.haverford.edu> >I just wanted to thank everybody who responded to my inquiry regarding >rack-mountable mixers. > >I am leaning toward the Mackie 1202 mounted onto a rack-mounted shelf. No >definite decision yet, though. In that case you should be aware that the "VLZ" version of the 1202 has more sends and is a significantly nicer machine that the "non-VLZ". Also, the newsgroup rec.music.makers.marketplace moves loads of Mackie 1202s every week, both VLZ and non-VLZ. A good price for used is $200-$250 for VLZ, $150-$200 for non-VLZ. J. ********************** My Town: Philadelphia! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 12:35:16 -0500 (CDT) From: erwill@ix.netcom.com (James E Williamson) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: visual looping Message-Id: <199704111735.MAA15427@dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com> You wrote: > >>How about pointing a video camera at it's own monitor screen then? > >Hey, I've got about 2 hours of that on tape. Great stuff! I'm in the midst >of dumping it into the computer and editing the best parts in Premiere. >Very cool, especially if you slow it way down. Cool. I did alot of experiments in that, as well. If you could send me some screen shots (jpgs) I would really appreciate it. Unfortunately, my dad accidently erased what I had done a couple of years ago, but if I ever get Snappy I'll grab a couple frames off a copy I made. I made them about 5 years ago for a German class parody of Dr Who. Thanks... -- James Eric Williamson - erwill@ix.netcom.com - erwill@heartland.bradley.edu One of Peoria's most obscure ambient blues musicians ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 13:51:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Adam Levin To: Loopers-Delight Subject: RE: delta-lab echotron Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 10 Apr 1997, Sellon, Bob wrote: > You are in luck. It turns out that, way Delta Lab implemented their delay > lines makes it quite easy to expand the memory. In Delta Lab products, > the A-D converters spit out a single serial stream of 1s and 0s which is > fed to the memory chips sequentially (into the first chip, out of the > first chip into the second chip, etc..). On the simpler products, they > derive their delay times by simply tapping off the serial data stream > between the memory chips or at the output of the last chip. To expand the > memory, you simply add more memory chips in the chain. Bob, Would this scheme also work for the DeltaLab CompuEffectron CE1700 model? Looking at the tech specs in the manual, I have a sneaking suspicion that you could add the RAM, but the MPU might not be able to address it. But then again, my electronics knowlege is pretty limited. -Adam --- "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue, out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one becomes a Hearer." - Chandrakirti ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 12:58:19 -0500 (CDT) From: erwill@ix.netcom.com (James E Williamson) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: oops... Message-Id: <199704111758.MAA13774@dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com> I'm sorry, I didn't intend for that to go to all of you... -- James Eric Williamson - erwill@ix.netcom.com - erwill@heartland.bradley.edu One of Peoria's most obscure ambient blues musicians ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 14:41:00 -0400 From: "Sellon, Bob" To: Loopers-Delight Subject: Delta Lab schematics Message-Id: <9704111824.AA27842@beryllium.lexicon.com> Kim, I'll take a look at those schematics to see what kind of shape they are in. Some are large blue prints but I think the Echotron schematics were reduced. I'll let you know. Bob Sellon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 14:57:00 -0400 From: "Sellon, Bob" To: Loopers-Delight Subject: Digitec expansion/Jamman update Message-Id: <9704111829.AA27849@beryllium.lexicon.com> Marc, > Hmm... I wonder if the memory of the Digitech RDS 7.6 (or 4000 & 8000) >can be expanded as well. If so, what would the average cost of an upgrade be >(parts only)? I've never worked on the Digitech units and don't have schematics so I really don't know. >Also, what's the status of the Jamman upgrade? Work is progressing at a pretty good clip. This summer still seems realistic for a release if legal issues can be cleanly resolved. I'll keep everybody posted. Bob Sellon Lexicon/Stec ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 13:39:32 -0700 From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: Re: Digitec expansion/Jamman update Message-Id: <199704112039.NAA28582@usr07.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Hmm... I wonder if the memory of the Digitech RDS 7.6 (or 4000 & > 8000) > >can be expanded as well. If so, what would the average cost of an > upgrade be > >(parts only)? > > I've never worked on the Digitech units and don't have schematics so I > really don't know. I too have a RDS 7.6 but my concern isn't as much increasing the RAM in the unit, thus potentially causing a loss of resolution, as much as it is lowering the S/N ratio of the unit. Given incorrect levels of input/output, and the longest setting for the loop length, one can get an incredible - though removable - amount of hiss. This is fine for studio stuff, but not the live material... Any thoughts on this, fellow RDS owners/operators? * Stephen Goodman It's the Loop Of The Week! And it's free! * EarthLight Productions http://www.primenet.com/~sgoodman/Studios ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 11:42:26 +0000 From: nyfac To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Cellists Message-ID: <334F751D.6F8@nyfac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > An open-minded chellist - wow! :) > How do you fel about moving to Glasgow? > > Michael It is kind of funny- most cellists don't seem to have a very eclectic aestetic. Tough to get them into the rock/punk/folk/loop thing. In fact, it seems to be pretty hard to get anyone in to it... :) So I have just followed through on my on my four year old threat and bought an old Kay 3/4 size plywood cello. I dated a girl for a while who was a phenominal cellist and started giving me pointers. With the cheater tape (you know, that yellow tape that novice violinists use as fret markers) I find that more of my left hand technique translates than I would have thought, but the right right hand technique is a bastard. Now all I need is to get some kind of pickup thingy in there and let the loops begin! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 11:47:50 +0000 From: nyfac To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: More on that feedback thing Message-ID: <334F7661.1727@nyfac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am a big proponant of feedback (like every other guitarist in NYC) but my bigest problem is that my pickups get crazy high pitched microphonic feedback with my old Jaguar. I just got my pickups back from Seymour Duncan (they repotted my Jag reissues and the originals) and while they are better than they were before, they can still get a little out of control. Anyone out there ever have to solve this problem? I don't use that much pre-amp gain, or a compressor, just a whole lot of volume. I don't see how Hendrix got such great feedback with his single coils. The good news is my hollowbody works like a charm. Trev ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 12:27:44 -0700 From: Roland Eberle To: nyfac@nyfac.com CC: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: More on that feedback thing Message-ID: <334FE230.29999C6@sj.bigger.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 nyfac wrote: > I am a big proponant of feedback (like every other guitarist in NYC) > but > my bigest problem is that my pickups get crazy high pitched > microphonic > feedback with my old Jaguar. I just got my pickups back from > Seymour > Duncan (they repotted my Jag reissues and the originals) and while > they > are better than they were before, they can still get a little out of > > control. > > Anyone out there ever have to solve this problem? Fernandes guitars with patented Sustainer circuit. Just try one and see. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 16:18:39 -0400 (EDT) From: PMimlitsch@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: More on that feedback thing Message-ID: <970412161838_-500628174@emout15.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 4/12/97 2:31:56 PM, Roland Eberle wrote: <> Or you could rent Steve Tibbetts fingers and setup 8-). ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 16:46:23 -0500 From: paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Ph.D.) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Digitec expansion/Jamman update Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Looking forward to the JamMan upgrade you are working on >Marc, > >> Hmm... I wonder if the memory of the Digitech RDS 7.6 (or 4000 & >8000) >>can be expanded as well. If so, what would the average cost of an >upgrade be >>(parts only)? > >I've never worked on the Digitech units and don't have schematics so I >really don't know. > > >Also, what's the status of the Jamman upgrade? > >Work is progressing at a pretty good clip. This summer still seems >realistic for a release if legal issues can be cleanly resolved. I'll >keep everybody posted. > >Bob Sellon >Lexicon/Stec ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 18:20:28 +0200 From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Digitec expansion/Jamman update Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Bob, Care to tease us with some info as to what the upgrade will contain??? Patrick *** *** ** Fingerpaint http://www.his.com/~Patrick/FNGP.html *** ** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 23:30:10 -0400 (EDT) From: AntiFret@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: please take me off of the mailing list Message-ID: <970412233009_775306578@emout08.mail.aol.com> can i get off the list, the sheer volume of it is a bit overwhelming and its not what i expected...nothing personal... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 03:58:54 -0500 From: John Pollock To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: delta-lab echotron Message-id: <3350A04E.2C54@delphi.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sellon, Bob wrote: > You are in luck. It turns out that, way Delta Lab implemented their delay > lines makes it quite easy to expand the memory. Bob, Would the same happen to be true of the Vortex? The thought of a 3.6sec or 7.2sec delay capability in the Vortex does unbelievable things to my erectile tissues and mucous membranes... ;-) Welcome to the list! :-) -- John Pollock mailto:johnpollock@delphi.com http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock (Troubador Tech) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 01:27:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Dpcoffin@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Another new DOD pedal Message-ID: <970414012024_-2071246693@emout18.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 4/9/97 1:14:42 AM, you wrote: <> I spent an enjoyable hour or so on the phone with Zachary Vex this weekend, whose pedals rec'd much praise in that GP/JGore NAMM report, and he mentioned that he's coming out with a lo-fi 20-sec digital looper stomp box for under $250 sometime soon. You can reach him at Z. Vex Effects, 612-781-1775; zvex@bitsteam.net anybody know anything about the Matchless Echo Box, described in the same issue, with a "craftily deployed cassette"? dp --------------------------------