------------------------------ Loopers-Delight-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 65 Today's Topics: Re: new sustainiac sustainer [ Kim Flint ] Re[2]: new sustainiac sustainer [ miguel.barella@poyry.com.br ] ROLAND GP-8 effects question [ james rhodes ] Re: Re[2]: new sustainiac sustainer [ "T.W. Hartnett" ] oberheim matrix-1000 [ Dan Howarth ] Re: JamMan modifications [ mgsam@wave.net ] RE: Looper's CD status. [ David Talento ] Re: ROLAND GP-8 effects question [ mgsam@wave.net ] RE: JamMan modifications [ mgsam@wave.net ] RE: JamMan modifications [ Dave Stagner ] Re: ROLAND GP-8 effects question [ Dave Stagner ] Re: ROLAND GP-8 effects question [ "T.W. Hartnett" ] Re: oberheim matrix-1000 [ Kim Flint ] Re: Ravel as a looper [ Kim Flint ] Re: new sustainiac sustainer [ Kim Flint ] Roland GR700 for Sale [ efisch@artnet.net (Eric R. Fischer) ] Re: fernandes sustainer [ Kim Flint ] Administrivia: Looper's Delight **************** Please send posts to: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Don't send them to the digest! To subscribe/unsubscribe to the Loopers-Delight digest version, send email with "subscribe" (or "unsubscribe") in both the subject and the body, with no signature files, to: Loopers-Delight-d-request@annihilist.com To subscribe/unsubscribe to the real Loopers-Delight list, send email with "subscribe" (or "unsubscribe") in both the subject and the body, with no signature files, to: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Check the web page for archives and lots of other goodies! http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html Your humble list maintainer, Kim Flint kflint@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 10:14:00 -0700 From: Kim Flint To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: new sustainiac sustainer Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This dude is not on the list, I don't think. You have to send to him directly. I forwarded your mail to him already, so don't worry about this one. CC the list if you get any response from him, because there are probably a number of us interested. Looping and sustaining seem to go together...... kim At 8:48 AM -0400 5/6/97, Hayden Porter wrote: >Gary Osborne wrote: > >>Just thought you would like to know that Maniac Music has recently >>introduced a new and improved Sustainiac in-guitar sustainer. We have been >>working on it for about 6 years and it blows away the earlier units. Drop >>us a line if you want more info. >> >>Gary Osborne >>Maniac Music, Inc. >>8320 Meadowbrook Drive >>Indpls, IN 46240 >> >>317-259-8295 >> >>maniac@inetdirect.net > >I second Kims request for more info about this technology. > > ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 May 97 14:40:00 TZ3 From: miguel.barella@poyry.com.br To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re[2]: new sustainiac sustainer Message-Id: <9704068629.AA862954792@jpccmail.poyry.com.br> I have seen the term "infinite guitar" in Michael Brook's CDs; is it related to the sustaniac? (or , maybe, the sustaniac itself?) Miguel ___________________________ Separador de Resposta ______________________________ Assunto: Re: new sustainiac sustainer Autor: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com na INTERNET Data: 06/05/1997 14:29 >Message was resent -- Original recipients were: To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com-------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------- This dude is not on the list, I don't think. You have to send to him directly. I forwarded your mail to him already, so don't worry about this one. CC the list if you get any response from him, because there are probably a number of us interested. Looping and sustaining seem to go together...... kim At 8:48 AM -0400 5/6/97, Hayden Porter wrote: >Gary Osborne wrote: > >>Just thought you would like to know that Maniac Music has recently >>introduced a new and improved Sustainiac in-guitar sustainer. We have been >>working on it for about 6 years and it blows away the earlier units. Drop >>us a line if you want more info. >> >>Gary Osborne >>Maniac Music, Inc. >>8320 Meadowbrook Drive >>Indpls, IN 46240 >> >>317-259-8295 >> >>maniac@inetdirect.net > >I second Kims request for more info about this technology. > > ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 12:54:12 -0500 (CDT) From: james rhodes To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: ROLAND GP-8 effects question Message-Id: <199705061754.MAA20180@mail1.texas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" hi loopers, i have been offered a Roland GP-8 pretty cheap,, this unit was made from 87'-89'. has anyone on this list ever played through one? or know a source that might provide me with info...any info...likes/dislikes would be helpful. thanks in advance, james ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 97 13:02:48 -0000 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Subject: Re: Re[2]: new sustainiac sustainer Message-Id: <199705061802.LAA19676@scv4.apple.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > I have seen the term "infinite guitar" in Michael Brook's CDs; is it > related to the sustaniac? (or , maybe, the sustaniac itself?) > It's the same sort of thing, except he built it himself years ago. Travis Hartnett ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 17:21:00 -0400 From: "Sellon, Bob" To: Loopers-Delight Subject: RE: JamMan modifications Message-Id: <9705061814.AA09935@beryllium.lexicon.com> Loop Docs, The new rom allows both of these things (feedback and volume) to be patched to continuous controllers from a "Learn" mode (there's also SysEx control available). You can also switch a loop in and out of the echo mode and divide it by up to 19 (also patchable). Thanks for the input. Its nice to know I'm on the right track. Bob Sellon Lexicon/Stec ---------- From: Loopers-Delight[SMTP:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com] Sent: Sunday, May 04, 1997 6:40 PM To: Loopers-Delight Subject: Re: JamMan modifications Dear Bob: The Loop Doctors have been thinking about Jammen modifications. Here are the two IMPORTANT must have items on our mod list. 1: We want to be able regulate loop volume with an expression pedal. 2: In the ECHO mode, we want to be able to control FEEDBACK with an expression pedal. Is this possible? Best, The Loop Doctors ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 11:18:10 -0700 (MST) From: Dan Howarth To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: oberheim matrix-1000 Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII hi folks, i don't know what the above is or does, but y'all seem to like oberheim gear quite a bit. there's one for sale at a local store for $400 or so. what's it do? (i remember someone talking about the matrix series a long while ago). **************************************************************** ** Dan Howarth, History/Music, University of Arizona, Tucson ** ** http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth (under construction) ** ** http://www.arts.arizona.edu/mus120 (under construction) ** **************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 11:43:17 +0100 From: mgsam@wave.net To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: JamMan modifications Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Great post about synchronization Kim! The Loop Doctors just spun out. Keep it up! Even stating problems like this gets musical juices flowing. Best, THE LOOP DOCTORS ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 14:37:29 -0400 (EDT) From: David Talento To: Loopers Delight Subject: RE: Looper's CD status. Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I got an email from Ray Peck last week and he asked me to post to the list with the status of the looper's CD. Here's the word from Ray: ====================================================== I have a bag full of all the tapes and letters and payments. Everything has gone to hell here recently, so I haven't been able to get to it (and it doesn't help that *both* of my DAT decks, a 3800 and a d8, died). I'm going to do the project as soon as I get my d8 back from Sony, which should be soon. If you could let the other folks on the list know (I haven't been keeping up with that mail), I'd appreciate it. =========================================================== hope that helps clear up any questions. d- -------- Help Wanted Productions - Bringing you the best in organic electronic and sweaty rock music since we started. Http://www.voicenet.com/~legion Available Now!: "The Feedback Machine" a new studio album from the Music for Isolation Tanks live lineup. Only $6.00 postpaid! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 11:56:30 +0100 From: mgsam@wave.net To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: ROLAND GP-8 effects question Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This gets into the whole interesting topic of looping and synthesis. We had the opportunity this weekend of playing with two guitar synthisizers at a gig this weekend. We can say is that synth can be extremely powerful and problematic. The Loop Doctors constantly debate the issue of when too much technology is well, just too much. Right now we think our hands our full between the Lexicon Jamman, Vortex and Oberheim Echoplex. This equipment seems to lead to different musical "fields" then synthesizers, although both of us think synths can be really interesting (check out David Bowie's new album with Reeves Gabriel for interesting pop application of synth guitar.) In another vein, anybody want to debate that point that if Maurice Ravel were still around he would be a SEVERE, and we mean severe, loophead? Best, The LOOP DOCTORS ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 11:57:40 +0100 From: mgsam@wave.net To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: JamMan modifications Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Bob: Great to know you're thinking along these lines. We'll continue to offer our input. Best, Loopdoctors ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 13:50:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight Subject: RE: JamMan modifications Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 5 May 1997, Sellon, Bob wrote: > Loop Docs, > The new rom allows both of these things (feedback and volume) to be > patched to continuous controllers from a "Learn" mode (there's also SysEx > control available). You can also switch a loop in and out of the echo > mode and divide it by up to 19 (also patchable). > > Thanks for the input. Its nice to know I'm on the right track. Definitely on the right track! Any idea how much the upgrade will cost? And is it a factory upgrade, or something we can do ourselves? -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.net */ -Charles Fort ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 14:01:03 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: ROLAND GP-8 effects question Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 6 May 1997 mgsam@wave.net wrote: > The Loop Doctors constantly debate the issue of when too much technology is > well, just too much. Right now we think our hands our full between the > Lexicon Jamman, Vortex and Oberheim Echoplex. This equipment seems to lead > to different musical "fields" then synthesizers, although both of us think > synths can be really interesting (check out David Bowie's new album with > Reeves Gabriel for interesting pop application of synth guitar.) > > In another vein, anybody want to debate that point that if Maurice Ravel > were still around he would be a SEVERE, and we mean severe, loophead? I don't know if he would or not... there's a difference between a repetitive texture and a recorded loop. Each has its advantages and disadvantages. "Bolero" is repetitive, but the textures are constantly shifting. If you want to hear a "classical" looper, find some Conlon Nancarrow. He devoted most of his career to player piano, mostly because humans were incapable of playing with the degree of precision and speed he required. Amazing stuff... profoundly mechanical on one hand, deeply emotional on the other. As for sonic textures - imagine a player piano with metal hammers rather than felt, sustain pedal down, blowing through a light-speed fortissimo 88-key cresendo! I heard that on vinyl once, but I know it must have been just a pale shadow of the original performance. That one caused problems for him mechanically... so little paper was left on the roll that it tended to shred while playing, especially with the piano vibrating like that. -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.net */ -Charles Fort ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 97 14:14:25 -0000 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Subject: Re: ROLAND GP-8 effects question Message-Id: <199705061914.MAA05896@scv4.apple.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >If you want to hear a "classical" looper, find some Conlon Nancarrow. >He devoted most of his career to player piano, mostly because humans >were incapable of playing with the degree of precision and speed he >required. Amazing stuff... profoundly mechanical on one hand, deeply >emotional on the other. As for sonic textures - imagine a player >piano with metal hammers rather than felt, sustain pedal down, blowing >through a light-speed fortissimo 88-key cresendo! I heard that on >vinyl once, but I know it must have been just a pale shadow of the >original performance. That one caused problems for him >mechanically... so little paper was left on the roll that it tended to >shred while playing, especially with the piano vibrating like that. I've got a two-cd overview of his music, and there are several pieces where he had attempted to sync two player pianos. It's challenging listening. Travis Hartnett ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 17:53:20 -0400 From: To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Delivery Report Message-ID: <199705061753_MC2-158E-1D89@compuserve.com> Non-Delivery Report: To: Administrator at CSERVE Subject: Re: ROLAND GP-8 effects question Report Generation Time: 05/06/97 21:53:15 (GMT+00:00) Transfer Failed: Recipient Name Unrecognized ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 18:56:14 -0700 From: inti@webtv.net (Carlos Carrillo) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Ravel as a looper Message-Id: <199705070156.SAA28402@mailtod-1.alma.webtv.net> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I believe that the work you are eluding to is the well known orchestral piece Bolero. This piece does indeed make use of repetition, but I think Ravel meant it more as an exposition of orchestral timbre, since the emphasis is largely placed on the shifting tonal colors provided by the different harmonies and combinations of solo and ensemble instruments. Repetition is not the intended focus of this particular work. Harmonic, timbral, and dynamic movement are the primary forces at work. Carlos R. Carrillo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 19:40:26 +0100 From: mgsam@wave.net To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Ravel as a looper Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Carlos: Thanks for your post. The intended focus of "looping" for the Loop Doctors certainly isn't repetition...but just as you say, harmonic, timbral and dynamic movement. As for Ravel...I had a chance to hear his piano piece...Mirrors, a couple of weeks ago. That's what triggered the association. Best, The Loop Doctors ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 23:24:33 -0700 From: inti@webtv.net (Carlos Carrillo) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Ravel as a looper Message-Id: <199705070624.XAA14614@mailtod-2.alma.webtv.net> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I understand your reference to Miroirs. There are a lot of interesting repeating ornaments ocurring within this set of pieces, specially in the third one. Very beautiful work. You should also check out Etudes, and a piece called Pagodes by Claude Debussy. I think Debussy might have been a little more adventurous and open to the idea of looping. Then again there is always Erik Satie :) Carlos R. Carrillo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 23:22:34 -0700 From: Kim Flint To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: ROLAND GP-8 effects question Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >hi loopers, > >i have been offered a Roland GP-8 pretty cheap,, this unit was made from >87'-89'. >has anyone on this list ever played through one? or know a source that might >provide me with info...any info...likes/dislikes would be helpful. > >thanks in advance, >james If Ravel and Nancarrow were alive today, they would have day jobs as statistical database programmers, too stressed by their cubiclized lifestyle to ever produce a note of music. The Roland GP-8 was one of the first programmable multi-effects processors. It was basically 8 boss pedals in a 1 rack unit. I never owned one or played through one seriously, but what I recall is that you could select whether the effects were on or off, and set a few parameters for each. It wasn't particularly noted for its sound, but I did know someone still using one a year or so ago. I remember lusting after it when it came out, as it was an idea I had held for years while the number of pedals at my feet grew and grew. I think Roland followed it with the even more brilliantly titled GP-16. I wouldn't pay much for the GP-8, myself. If you are just looking for a cheap effects box, you would probably do better looking for a used quadraverb or something. You should give it a try though. Maybe it has just the right sort of lo-fi magic to work for you. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 23:49:42 -0700 From: Kim Flint To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: oberheim matrix-1000 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The matrix-1000 is a six voice analog synth with 1000 preset sounds available. It is basically like the matrix-6, only without any control interface on it. There are both hardware and software editors available from third parties to program the sounds to something other than the factory presets. I like the sounds of it, and it is a good way to get some analog synth sounds without paying a lot of cash. It's been on the market for about 10 years now, and is still quite popular for dance/techno stuff. It's also a reasonably good choice for guitar synth, as the response time is pretty quick and you can assign each voice to map to a string. I've been thinking about getting one, but the matrix-1000 has nothing to do with looping. kim >hi folks, > >i don't know what the above is or does, but y'all seem to like oberheim >gear quite a bit. there's one for sale at a local store for $400 or so. >what's it do? (i remember someone talking about the matrix series a long >while ago). > >**************************************************************** >** Dan Howarth, History/Music, University of Arizona, Tucson ** >** http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth (under construction) ** >** http://www.arts.arizona.edu/mus120 (under construction) ** >**************************************************************** ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 00:02:52 -0700 From: Kim Flint To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Ravel as a looper Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Carlos: > >Thanks for your post. > >The intended focus of "looping" for the Loop Doctors certainly isn't >repetition...but just as you say, harmonic, timbral and dynamic movement. > >As for Ravel...I had a chance to hear his piano piece...Mirrors, a couple >of weeks ago. That's what triggered the association. > >Best, >The Loop Doctors I agree. Looping is more than just repetition. You need evolution and development as well! I went to see the Orb the other night. They're an excellent example, with elements repeating and changing and coming and going. There were many moments were a nice ambient soundscape would be going, with lots of subtle bits thrown around the surround-sound system, and a few moments later I would notice that a thunderous percussion part would be going too except I never quite noticed where it came in. It just sort of built up out of nothing into prominence. It would loop for a while, mutate, maybe disappear, maybe become something new. The whole performance was great. The Chemical Brothers also played to demonstrate that a) the Orb is really good, and b) it is indeed possible to be louder than Metallica without being anywhere near as entertaining. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 00:13:03 -0700 From: Kim Flint To: "Gary Osborne" Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: new sustainiac sustainer Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Gary, Thanks for your reply. Since you now have the attention of a significant number of folks on our mailing list, would you mind giving us a more detailed description by email? Or perhaps placing your brochure on a web site? I think it would be most appreciated, since the subject of sustain devices has come up a number of times on the Looper's Delight list. I'm not time-endowed enough to forward hardcopy literature back to the net, or I'd take you up on the brochure offer. thanks, kim At 10:32 PM -0500 5/6/97, Gary Osborne wrote: >Our new sustainer is built in like your Fernandes but our middle pickup is >the driver instead of the neck pickup. This lets you use the neck pickup >while the sustainer is on. That's something the Fernandes can't do. Send >us your snail mail address to get a free brochure. Gary O. > >---------- >> From: Kim Flint >> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >> Cc: Gary Osborne >> Subject: Re: new sustainiac sustainer >> Date: Tuesday, May 06, 1997 2:49 AM >> >> >Just thought you would like to know that Maniac Music has recently >> >introduced a new and improved Sustainiac in-guitar sustainer. We have >been >> >working on it for about 6 years and it blows away the earlier units. >Drop >> >us a line if you want more info. >> > >> >Gary Osborne >> >Maniac Music, Inc. >> >8320 Meadowbrook Drive >> >Indpls, IN 46240 >> > >> >317-259-8295 >> > >> >maniac@inetdirect.net >> >> >> ok, I'm game. Tell me more! >> >> I bought a fernandes sustainer pickup for $300 a year or so ago. The >pickup >> even came with a so-so strat copy attached to it! ;-) >> >> I like the fernandes thingy pretty well. Makes a great sound source for >> loops. How does the new Sustainiac compare to that? What I remember about >> the old sustainiac is that it required external hardware and some large >> device connected to the headstock of the guitar. Hopefully you've >improved >> on that design approach? >> >> thanks, >> >> kim >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> Kim Flint | Looper's Delight >> kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html >> http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 00:19:41 -0800 From: efisch@artnet.net (Eric R. Fischer) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Roland GR700 for Sale Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'm not sure how you all feel about people sellin' stuff thru this group, but I figured if anyone would be intereted in this y'all would be. I have a GR707 guitar, a GR700 Synth, and a PG200 programmer for sale. All I'm missing is the 24 pin cable whch you can get thru Roland. Everything is in really good shape (previously owned by Joe Walsh!). I'm asking $750.00 for all of it. Feel free to contact me directly at (213)938-2560. Thanks Eric ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 00:26:23 -0700 From: Kim Flint To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: fernandes sustainer Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 9:11 AM -0400 5/6/97, Hayden Porter wrote: >Kim Flint wrote: >>I bought a fernandes sustainer pickup for $300 a year or so ago. The pickup >>even came with a so-so strat copy attached to it! ;-) >What I need is an instrument that has the classical string width spacing >AND has steel strings. With this combination I can explore long sustain >and signal processing with conventional electric guitar technology while >not affecting my technique. Any suggestions? If you like the Chet Atkins, there are also steel string versions of that guitar, which have the wider string spacing. You might want to check out Godin as well. >Now to get back to the Sustainer pickup.... I foresee some problems with >conventional pole pickups and the classical string spacing. Is it possible >to use a conventional pickup with this spacing or would active electronics >be better? I'm pretty sure there are pickups intended for wider spacing. The kind meant to go in acoustic steel strings? Any guitar designed to be amplified should have a reasonable solution to this. > >I also wonder if the fernandes sustainer pickup would work with this >spacing. I would really love to have infinite sustain by using the >fernandes or the sustainiac on an instrument with classical width spacing. There you'll likely have trouble. The pickup might work fine, but getting one installed properly in a guitar is quite difficult, or so I've heard. There are people who can do it, though. Also, unless it is already in a guitar, you have to specially order it from Japan, which may or may not be hard. I do know a fellow who has several of these installed in PRS guitars. You might want to ask the sustainiac guy if he has a solution that works. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com --------------------------------