------------------------------ Loopers-Delight-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 80 Today's Topics: Re: Sustain [ matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias ] back to this nice place [ matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias ] Re: Zoom 508 delay [ "T.W. Hartnett" ] Zoom 508 delay vs. Steinway pianos v [ mgsam@wave.net ] Re: Zoom 508 delay vs. Steinway pian [ Dave Stagner ] Terry Riley [ Ed Drake ] Re: Zoom 508 delay vs. Steinway pian [ Kim Corbet ] Re: Zoom 508 delay vs. Steinway pian [ improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) ] Re: Low-impedance pickups (was: Sust [ John Pollock ] Re: Looping in London [ pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hu ] Re: Dork has more to say [ Dave Stagner ] Administrivia: Looper's Delight **************** Please send posts to: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Don't send them to the digest! To subscribe/unsubscribe to the Loopers-Delight digest version, send email with "subscribe" (or "unsubscribe") in both the subject and the body, with no signature files, to: Loopers-Delight-d-request@annihilist.com To subscribe/unsubscribe to the real Loopers-Delight list, send email with "subscribe" (or "unsubscribe") in both the subject and the body, with no signature files, to: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Check the web page for archives and lots of other goodies! http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html Your humble list maintainer, Kim Flint kflint@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 11:52:24 -0300 From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Sustain Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Matthias: > >>Sure I tried it, years ago. There are problems I did not have the patience >>to solve: >> >>1 To keep the correct phase for any note is not easy. > >I'd thought of using the middle pickup purely as a sensor for the sustainer >(which prob'ly won't work - see below.), which is nearer the driver (neck >p'u) and less likely to have phase problems. However, the root marmonic >should always be in phase over all pickups (by definition) One should think so. On the violin, the wave is running along the string, out of the bow, maybe there is such behaviour from the driver? Do the magnets shift the phase too? - it's the >extent to which the signal is dominated by the upper harmonics what's the >problem, which is why I thought it would be better to use the mid p'u. the >bridge p'u is all harmonics, which is probably not ideal. I do not think the harmonics are a big problem, because you will want them to appear, but not necessarily control. Isnt it fun when they come and go? I think it would be interesting to have some phase shift (foot?) control, to simulate the distance between speaker and guitar. >>3 The driver tends to feed back directly to the pickup. To avoid it, you >>need to limit its energy, make it more effective through filtering or build >>it in a specific way so it does not stray the magnetic field. > >This is probably why the middle pickup is disengaged on the Fernandez when >the Sustainer is engaged. right! >>But... go ahead and find out! > >Learn the hard way, eh? ...the fun way... Matthias ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 11:52:37 -0300 From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: back to this nice place Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I had suffered some eremit time with Plex programming, disorientation, somatization... It was healthy to dig out some old recordings and edit them and burn them onto CDR. Most surprising where some works with a Irish looping percussionist called David Hopkins. I hope there will be a way to make them accessible to anyone! Now, a lot is cleaned out, two artist came to live here... I read all the list mail and sometimes typed some answer but did not send it, because it was late... Now I go through those and post some of them, allthough they are more late even... sorry. Soon I will have some more questions, rather loop related. I liked all the non topic posts. My only concern is that they are mostly very guitar related and we might bore the few non guitarist loopers, which is a pity because I insist that looping is not at all limited to the guitar! Looking into the next chapter of live... Matthias ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 97 10:17:57 -0000 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Subject: Re: Zoom 508 delay Message-Id: <199706041517.IAA28796@scv1.apple.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >>For anyone looking to get into looping cheaply, I'd recommend the Zoom >>508. It's a programmable delay pedal with 4 seconds of delay time. >>Stereo out, six banks of four patches, tap-tempo, built-in tuner, >>programmable high-frequency damping, delay spillover when switching >>patches, it's got a ton of features for about $135 street price. I >>bought one for a small looping setup, so that I don't need to break out >>my rack whenever I want to loop, and I've been very pleased with the >>sound. > >Yeah, this thing sounds pretty good (fairly clean, digital), but like just >about every Zoom product we've ever seen, it's an ergonomic nightmare, plus >they clip you more money for an additional foot pedal. The tuner is pretty >ridiculous too. The casing is plastic, and unless you're very delicate when you gig, it probably won't hold up to Stomping Rock Frenzy. However, I think most loopers do the bulk of their work at home, in a studio setting, or under more sedate live circumstances. In any case, I think it's primary looping applications are of the "set it and forget it" variety--either setting it to the four-second delay with lots of feedback, or one of the long tapped delay settings. If you're looking to jump around, during performance, from patch to patch to patch, you'll need to be delicate. Programming it is easy as long as you don't lose the sheet with the description of what the various delay types are (on the two character, scrolling readout they show up as "nt", "ND", etc. My recommendation of the device is based on its sonic usefulness once you've set it up to your liking. It's main shortcomings are the plastic casing and the limited number of controls, which mean that you won't start programming it effectively unless you have the instructions. For $135, I feel it's well worth it. Travis Hartnett ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 97 11:26:30 -0000 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Subject: Re: David Darling : Cello Message-Id: <199706041625.JAA14618@scv4.apple.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >Matthias, if you like David Darling, check out this recording. It's on ECM >records and it's quite amazing. He even plays 8 string electric cello. Very >slow ambient pieces. Quite evocative. I made a tape from a friends CD and >I've yet to bump into the actual CD in a shop. It was recorded in 1991-92 in >Oslo. I'm not 100% sure about the title, but some of the tracks are: > Darkwood 1, No Place Nowhere, Lament, Indiana Indian, Fables, etc. >Check it out. David Darling has several releases on ECM. There is one called "Cello" (ECM 21464). ECM has their entire catalog available on-line at their website. Travis Hartnett ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 13:16:14 -0400 From: Mark@asisoftware.com (Mark Kata) To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Low-impedance pickups (was: Sustain) Message-ID: <01BC70E9.7D112DE0@mark.asisoftware.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit EMG has been making low impedance pickups since the early '70s. I have a couple of humbuckers in my Steinberger Transtrem. Their website address is http://www.emginc.com Mark Kata Mark@asisoftware.com Troy, Michigan ---------- From: Dr M. P. Hughes[SMTP:pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk] Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 1997 11:41 AM To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Low-impedance pickups (was: Sustain) >2 To drive, you need power. Either a higher tension than battery or a low >impedance pickup (DIY?). I've just been trying to read up about low-impedance pickups, but information is scarce. I'm presuming fewer turns of thicker wire are used - hi-Z pickups use about 6000 turns of 40SWG wire. Anybody got any ideas? (I'm assuming they've been off the market since Gibson dropped 'em in the 70s) Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 14:03:13 -0500 From: Ed Drake To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Has anyone received a backordered Plex yet? Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello fellow loopers, Just wondering if any of you who have had an Echoplex on back order, actually received it yet? I know according to kim and Oberheim's customer service (Dean Fouts) they are being shipped out but I haven't heard of anybody getting one yet. Ed ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:53:33 -0700 From: mgsam@wave.net To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Zoom 508 delay vs. Steinway pianos vs. Klein guitars Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear T.W. Hartnett: Thanks for your informative post about the Zoom 508 but the LoOpDoctOrs must take issue with this destructive notion that looping is largely in the realm of the studio. We want equipment that words LIVE and in the studio. We are not happy with the mindset that produces technology that can only be accessed if you "have the instructions." We are excited about both the Jamman and Echoplex, however, at the same time, we are deeply disgruntled with the state of their ergonomic art (and we mean by that the cumulative impact of firmware/software/and hardware)...and feel strongly that the "studio" mentality has contributed to some of the mistakes in design that make these pieces more difficult to use live then they need be. We will be elated when the people responsible for designing the next generation of loopers become as thoughtful about the real world live application of their creations as say Steve Klein was when he designed his incredible electric guitar, or the Steinway family was when they produced the grandest of grand pianos In short, here's a test: put a Klein guitar or a Steinway piano in front of a five year old who has never SEEN a guitar or a piano before. With both instruments that said five year old will immediately get it. He will sit down and begin strumming or plunking away, and he will accomplish this because the Klein guitar and the Steinway piano have been adapted to make music with the human mind and body (even a tiny one). Now put the Zoom 508 pedal in front of that same five year old...within a very short time he will throw it across the room. In short, the Loopdoctors while not starving exactly, remain darn hungry when it comes to looper ergonomics. And we still think that when dug up in future archeological expeditions, Zoom products will be mistaken for windshield scrapers, arch supports, or tax notarization devices, rather then what the nominally intended to be...music makers for real human beings. Best, The LoOpDoctOrs ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 14:08:42 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Zoom 508 delay vs. Steinway pianos vs. Klein guitars Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Interesting point... I was just thinking of the Vortex interface in terms of hardware, software, and sonics. Sonically, the Vortex is most effective in the studio. Its subtleties are often lost live. But it is also missing midi, the most basic studio interface. I keep my patches in a notebook, not on a computer! Worse still, the footpedal interface makes it a pain to advance through programs in a structured live setting. It's a wonderfully cool device, but can you imagine it with midi? -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.net */ -Charles Fort ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 15:15:11 -0500 From: Ed Drake To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Terry Riley Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Loopers, I came across a couple of links for tape loop pioneer/minimalist composer Terry Riley and I didn't recall seeing them mentioned here before. http://www.cortical.org/Riley.html http://www.otherminds.org/Riley.html There is even a link to download a small pdf file of the score for Riley's In C, a very loopy minimalist composition, which is mentioned on the Looper's Delight Loopography page. http://www.otherminds.org/Scores.html Later Ed ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 14:10:48 -0500 (CDT) From: Kim Corbet To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Zoom 508 delay vs. Steinway pianos vs. Klein guitars Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII hear hear!!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 97 14:33:08 -0000 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Subject: Re: Zoom 508 delay vs. Steinway pianos vs. Klein guitars Message-Id: <199706041932.MAA21552@scv4.apple.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >Interesting point... I was just thinking of the Vortex interface in >terms of hardware, software, and sonics. > >Sonically, the Vortex is most effective in the studio. Its subtleties >are often lost live. But it is also missing midi, the most basic >studio interface. I keep my patches in a notebook, not on a computer! >Worse still, the footpedal interface makes it a pain to advance >through programs in a structured live setting. > >It's a wonderfully cool device, but can you imagine it with midi? Can you imagine it listing for $649? No one was willing to buy the Vortex until the price dropped to fire sale levels, and I don't the lack of MIDI was the deciding factor. Try explaining why it's so cool to a civilian, they just don't get it. Travis (Vortex owner) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 97 14:28:00 -0000 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Subject: Re: Zoom 508 delay vs. Steinway pianos vs. Klein guitars Message-Id: <199706041925.MAA10820@scv2.apple.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >Thanks for your informative post about the Zoom 508 but the LoOpDoctOrs >must take issue with this destructive notion that looping is largely in the >realm of the studio. We want equipment that words LIVE and in the studio. >We are not happy with the mindset that produces technology that can only be >accessed if you "have the instructions." While I'm all for cheap, all-powerful gear that doesn't require me to read the manual, I'm also aware of the many limitations that manufacturers face in trying to make these products economically viable. When it comes to making digital software/hardware "intuitive", I'd love to hear some concrete suggestions for implementing an intuitive way to crossfade between three odd-length loops while replacing the second multiple of the third loop with an inverted copy of the first multiple of the third loop. I also think that live looping applications closely resemble moving the studio onstage. > >We are excited about both the Jamman and Echoplex, however, at the same >time, we are deeply disgruntled with the state of their ergonomic art (and >we mean by that the cumulative impact of firmware/software/and >hardware)...and feel strongly that the "studio" mentality has contributed >to some of the mistakes in design that make these pieces more difficult to >use live then they need be. > >We will be elated when the people responsible for designing the next >generation of loopers become as thoughtful about the real world live >application of their creations as say Steve Klein was when he designed his >incredible electric guitar, or the Steinway family was when they produced >the grandest of grand pianos It's a small miracle that we have the looping tools that we have, given the tiny, tiny, market that exists for loopage gear. The fact that the ergonomics of the instruments (JamMan, Echoplex, Boomerang, etc) may not be up to the standards of a $3000 custom electric guitar (the Klein), a device with a physical heritage stretching back hundreds of years, doesn't surprise or disappoint me. > >In short, here's a test: put a Klein guitar or a Steinway piano in front of >a five year old who has never SEEN a guitar or a piano before. With both >instruments that said five year old will immediately get it. He will sit >down and begin strumming or plunking away, and he will accomplish this >because the Klein guitar and the Steinway piano have been adapted to make >music with the human mind and body (even a tiny one). Now put the Zoom 508 >pedal in front of that same five year old...within a very short time he >will throw it across the room. Yeah, but try having him restring or tune either instrument. The Klein and the Steinway are simple analog devices, from a user standpoint. Start string vibrate. Change pitch of string. Repeat as desired. How about handing them a saxaphone and seeing what they can make of it? Or a 24-track tape recorder? > >In short, the Loopdoctors while not starving exactly, remain darn hungry >when it comes to looper ergonomics. And we still think that when dug up in >future archeological expeditions, Zoom products will be mistaken for >windshield scrapers, arch supports, or tax notarization devices, rather >then what the nominally intended to be...music makers for real human >beings. Or even music makers for those who refer to themselves in the third person. In closing, for $135 it's great. Every dollar that you spend to make it more roadworthy or add knobs will be a dollar less spent on the delay. Travis Hartnett ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 14:53:37 -0600 (CDT) From: Kevin Simonson To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Zoom 508 delay vs. Steinway pianos vs. Klein guitars Message-Id: <199706041953.AA023554017@eagle.uis.edu> Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1974 > > We will be elated when the people responsible for designing the next > generation of loopers become as thoughtful about the real world live > application of their creations as say Steve Klein was when he designed his > incredible electric guitar, or the Steinway family was when they produced > the grandest of grand pianos It strikes me that these examples strive to achieve project leadership through quality materials and manufacturing of a very well designed product with little concern for PRICE. Zoom does not (self-)admittedly manufacture top of the line products, and with their impetus being toward producing COST-EFFECTIVE solutions, comparing the two above examples with a 508 is by nature kind of fallacious. > > In short, here's a test: put a Klein guitar or a Steinway piano in front of > a five year old who has never SEEN a guitar or a piano before. With both > instruments that said five year old will immediately get it. He will sit > down and begin strumming or plunking away, and he will accomplish this > because the Klein guitar and the Steinway piano have been adapted to make > music with the human mind and body (even a tiny one). Now put the Zoom 508 > pedal in front of that same five year old...within a very short time he > will throw it across the room. A five year old would need to have very advanced temporal-spatial faculties in order to grasp what a 508 does. The Zoom All-in-One pedals are for a rather specific market niche, and with the textural tendencies and general "big ears" of the looping community in general, are probably NOT suitable as multipurpose effects units, but rather offer a palette of limited solutions to primarily budget-minded guitarists. -- Kevin Simonson * AS/400 Application Development Team University of Illinois-Springfield * Programmer / Analyst Computer Science, et al. * Norwest Mortgage, Inc. simonson@eagle.uis.edu * Springfield, IL ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 13:01:20 -0800 From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Zoom 508 delay vs. Steinway pianos vs. Klein guitars Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Interesting point... I was just thinking of the Vortex interface in >terms of hardware, software, and sonics. > >Sonically, the Vortex is most effective in the studio. Its subtleties >are often lost live. But it is also missing midi, the most basic >studio interface. I keep my patches in a notebook, not on a computer! >Worse still, the footpedal interface makes it a pain to advance >through programs in a structured live setting. > >It's a wonderfully cool device, but can you imagine it with midi? > Y'know, I actually like the interface of the Vortex for live use. I keep it in a rack on a keyboard stand when I play, and I've gotten fairly quick at modifying sounds on the fly. The fact that you can re-assign the pedal parameter quickly, and the fact that you can modify one parameter via the pedal and another with the front panel knob make it pretty flexible. I only have about 5 basic Vortex patches that I use, but I modify them heavily in real-time But what do I know, I even like the fact that the JamMan has stereo inputs while it loops in mono. I run 2 seperate feeds into it, one from the electronics and one from the bass/effects. I like the fact that I don't need another mixer channel for this. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 20:07:38 -0500 From: John Pollock To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Low-impedance pickups (was: Sustain) Message-id: <3396115A.6B95@delphi.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Mark Kata wrote: > > EMG has been making low impedance pickups since the early '70s. I have a couple of humbuckers in my Steinberger Transtrem. > > Their website address is http://www.emginc.com They have low-impedance outputs, but I've always assumed this is a function of their built-in preamps. Are the pickups themselves low-Z? Bill Lawrence used to make "medium-impedance" soundhole pickups for acoustic guitars; I have a bunch of them, and love them because they can work into almost any load impedance without losing highs. I'm not sure whether they'd work as a sustainer driver. I'll bet several pickup makers would be willing to tackle the problem, though. -- John Pollock mailto:johnpollock@delphi.com http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock (Troubador Tech) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 08:35:33 -0700 From: Tom Attix To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Klein Electric Guitar Message-ID: <41DE695CE6FCCF11AD1000805FCCF8EC1BB2EA@SF-01-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> What about the feedback of the (body) vibration from the acoustic chamber to the string? Obviously, you can't increase overall string vibration (amplitude) by coupling it to an acoustic chamber but could the chamber act as a "storage device" for resonant freq's thereby sustaining certain harmonics (longer than they would have been originally) and effectively dampening nonresonant harmonics? If you plug this into an amp, it will feedback much easier (energy is never free but maybe you can get it a little cheaper...). > -----Original Message----- > From: matthias@bahianet.com.br [SMTP:matthias@bahianet.com.br] > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 1997 12:14 AM > To: Tom Attix > Subject: Re: Klein Electric Guitar > > Kim wrote: > >>>Strummed acoustically it is > >>>quite loud, like a 335. The resonance chamber does that for you. > > Sean Echevarria asked: > >>Are there any other benefits to the chamber? > > Kim answered: > >Well, I'm hardly an expert on guitar design, but as I understand, > resonant > >chambers can add a lot of sustain and harmonic content. I think > that's > >what they do in the Kleins. I know I liked the chambered Kleins > better > >than the non-chambered ones, although those are very nice too. The > chamber > >adds $$, of course..... > > I thought: > The chamber probably absorbs some energy from the cord and thus > diminuishes > sustain. The loud acoustic sound confirms that. The sound energy you > hear > is taken from the string and the more you take the quicker it is > without, > which means less sustain. But sure, it makes the harmonic content more > complex, more alive. > A perfect long sustain means no absorbtion of the sting energy, which > means > no colouring is possible by absobing some frequencies more than others > - > the "dead" carbon fiber sound. > > ... thats how I understood natural sustain > > Matthias > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 13:04:04 +0100 From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Looping in London Message-Id: <8187.199706051204@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" David Orton: >>>Just a brief note to say I will be adopting a solo loopist stance on April >>>10th at the the Clock Tower in Croydon, London (UK) from 1pm till 2pm (lunch >>>time) Me: >>Another UK looper! Does that make, oh, about 3 of us? Matthias: >There are at least another two: > Antonio Forcione and his friend bought LOOP delays in '93 >The phone then was 081 995 7613 was his friend Neil Stacy? I saw that pair playing in '93 - phenomenal, incredibly virtuosic, incredibly funny! Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 13:32:10 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Dork has more to say Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 2 Jun 1997, mmason wrote: > I've got a Fender Musicmaster Bass amp, a 12 watt tube amp from 1978. > She sounds decent, but she makes a CRAPLOAD of noise. > > Any of you techno-smart loopin folks know any ways I could quiet her > down? What do you mean by "noise"? Not distortion, I hope. Ain't nuttin' you can do 'bout dat. At that age, she ought to be about due for a good restoration. The tubes will be gassy, and the electrolytic caps shot. Does it make popping sounds while it warms up? If so, it needs a cap job. Do that soon, lest a failed cap damage your tubes or cause some other horror. Do the tubes glow blue? If so, they're gassy, and need replaced. Do yourself a favor, and forget new tubes. Most modern Chinese and Russian tubes are *junk*. I just replaced a blown vintage Mullard EL34 in my stereo with a Groove Tubes EL34. The difference in manufacturing quality and sonics shocked me. The GT (a Chinese EL34) glows cherry red at the limits of its capabilities in this amp, while the 35 year old Mullards show no color at all, except for a tiny bit of gas in one. So, retube with good quality NOS (new old stock) vintage tubes. Try Steve at Angela Instruments (www.angela.com), an excellent straightforward guy. His web site has prices and descriptions for a wide variety of NOS tubes. As for a cap job... if you aren't afraid of a bit of soldering and understand the basics of electronics, it's pretty easy to do. If you don't know the proper precautions for dealing with high voltage, though, don't try it. Tube amp voltages will knock you on your ass bad. Take it to a respected local amp repair shop. While you're at it, if the amp doesn't have a three-prong cord, add one. Take good care of that little amp, and don't begrudge spending money on its health. Those low-powered Fenders are some of the best-sounding amps I've heard. -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.net */ -Charles Fort --------------------------------