------------------------------ Loopers-Delight-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 95 Today's Topics: Re: gear schmear, music is best --> [ "Mikell D. Nelson" ] plex fading problem [ rick canton ] Re: The LoOpDoctOrs scream HELP!!! [ improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) ] Recommended Music [ Joe Cavaleri ] loopers software [ Kim Flint ] Administrivia: Looper's Delight **************** Please send posts to: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Don't send them to the digest! To subscribe/unsubscribe to the Loopers-Delight digest version, send email with "subscribe" (or "unsubscribe") in both the subject and the body, with no signature files, to: Loopers-Delight-d-request@annihilist.com To subscribe/unsubscribe to the real Loopers-Delight list, send email with "subscribe" (or "unsubscribe") in both the subject and the body, with no signature files, to: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Check the web page for archives and lots of other goodies! http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html Your humble list maintainer, Kim Flint kflint@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 13:28:31 -0500 From: "Mikell D. Nelson" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: gear schmear, music is best --> Loop dynamics Message-ID: <33AACBCF.4CAA@dmans.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris Chovit wrote: > It seems that there are two extremes: Pure repetition and pure chaos. I have one solo electric guitar tune that starts with repetition and progresses to chaos. I start by recording a very simple E riff on my Boomerang, then layer the same part an octave up, then layer a chord pattern based on Em7. I play the melody or hook mixed with some soloing over this. All pretty straight so far. Then I start adding parts that are at first harmonically complimentary, but I ocaissionally slip in a flatted 5th or the major scale 7th - very dissonant. Over time I add more clashing notes and progress to adding noises: racking pick over strings, playing above the nut, vibrato effects, etc. Finally I reverse playback direction on the noise symphony and fade to black. If I've done it well, the transition from heavy but melodic tune to industrial mayhem is very smooth and interesting. Another technique I use that makes for some interesting creations is this. Play a very long scale based riff - essentially attempt to play a good melody line. Then play this back in reverse. It seems to be the case that if a melody sounds pleasing forward, it will probably sound good in reverse. Now the challenging part. I compose an accompaniment that supports the reverse melody. The choice of chords, inversions, etc. really affects the mood of the composition. Just some ideas to try... Motley ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 13:34:35 -0500 From: "Mikell D. Nelson" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: terminology help Message-ID: <33AACD3B.1379@dmans.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim Coker wrote: > Anyone familiar with African M'bira music? A friend of mine > just introduced it to me. Very nice ostinato-based. The notes > are in patterns of 3, but the accompanying shaker beat is > in 2. Can someone provide clear definitions of ostinato and legato, especially as they would apply to guitar. Being a 'street' musician I don't know the meaning of many musical terms. Thanks for the primer. Motley ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:58:00 -0700 From: rick canton To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: The LoOpDoctOrs scream HELP!!! Message-ID: <33AAFCE8.2EFA@cyberportal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit mgsam@wave.net wrote: > > Kim: > > On the bad simm trail...We tried swapping and recombining and re-pairing > the little green buggers, in a DNA/amoeba like way, or thought of > differently -- as lawn chair producers of a backyard computer porn epic. > Didn't work. These simms were definitly not of the recombient ilk. > > We do take your caveat about "one being" bad making the rest of the 'plex > go bonkers seriously, because the 'plex was definitly acting like it had > inhaled too much car exhaust. > > Rumor mongering? Not our intent. The LoOpDoctOrs "soul" purpose in life > is to explicate the content of the universe. > > But we do appreciate and admire your ever supportive and highly intelligent > feedback. You are a gift to us all. > > Best, > The LoOpDoctOrs mgsam@wave.net wrote: > > Kim: > > On the bad simm trail...We tried swapping and recombining and re-pairing > the little green buggers, in a DNA/amoeba like way, or thought of > differently -- as lawn chair producers of a backyard computer porn epic. > Didn't work. These simms were definitly not of the recombient ilk. > > We do take your caveat about "one being" bad making the rest of the 'plex > go bonkers seriously, because the 'plex was definitly acting like it had > inhaled too much car exhaust. > mgsam@wave.net wrote: > > Kim: > > On the bad simm trail...We tried swapping and recombining and re-pairing > the little green buggers, in a DNA/amoeba like way, or thought of > differently -- as lawn chair producers of a backyard computer porn epic. > Didn't work. These simms were definitly not of the recombient ilk. > > We do take your caveat about "one being" bad making the rest of the 'plex > go bonkers seriously, because the 'plex was definitly acting like it had > inhaled too much car exhaust. > > Rumor mongering? Not our intent. The LoOpDoctOrs "soul" purpose in life > is to explicate the content of the universe. > > But we do appreciate and admire your ever supportive and highly intelligent > feedback. You are a gift to us all. > > Best, > The LoOpDoctOrs > But we do appreciate and admire your ever supportive and highly intelligent > feedback. You are a gift to us all. > > Best, > The LoOpDoctOrs ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 15:52:46 -0700 From: rick canton To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: plex fading problem Message-ID: <33AB09BE.7659@cyberportal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit to kim or someone who knows, i have two plex`s w/ 198 sec each , synched . if i loop anything , weather its 1 second or more , one of my plex starts to fade slowly after about 5 minutes of repeating the loop. both units have the feedback knob cranked .... the other stays strong.... whats up? is it the memory? the feetback pot? thanks, rick ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:20:08 -0800 From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: The LoOpDoctOrs scream HELP!!! Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:03 AM 6/20/97, mgsam@wave.net wrote: >differently -- as lawn chair producers of a backyard computer porn epic. Hmm, after spending the day mucking around in the guts of a powermac 8500, this makes me feel a bit sleazy. Like the twin gynecologists in Cronenberg's Dead Ringers... ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:09:09 -0700 From: Joe Cavaleri To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Recommended Music Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970621000909.0069a874@svars1.simi-valley.ate.slb.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi all, Here are some artists that might be of interest.. Artist CD Title Ben Neil Triptycal Ambient trumpet/effects Jon Hassell Power Spot Laurie Anderson Big Science Michael Brook Live at the aquarium Djam Karet Suspension + Displacement Susan Deiham & Richard Herowitz Desert Equations Steve Tibbits Exploded View Terje Rapdal If mountains could sing Some of the most "musical" ring modulated sounds I've heard. Hope you all get a chance to hear some of these recordings. Bye for now ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 20:38:35 -0400 (EDT) From: PainPete@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Recommended Recordings Message-ID: <970620203835_-1898141669@emout11.mail.aol.com> Anyone have any reactions to the band "Zoviet France"? They have a zillion albums out of varying quality, but they seem to be dedicated loopers in that "creepy and scary" non-groove, non-beat related way. My personal opinion is that they alternate between awesomeness/mediocrity, but as a band they are undeniably interesting. My personal favorite ZF is a live album called "Vienna, 1990" (Anyone know what gear they are using? The newer stuff sounds like cheap found sounds put through a high-end Lexicon reverb). Pete In a message dated 97-06-20 01:26:27 EDT, you write: << Subj: Recommended Recordings Date: 97-06-20 01:26:27 EDT From: Mark@asisoftware.com (Mark Kata) Resent-from: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-to: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com ('Loopers Delight') Earlier this year there was a long thread of posts about recordings that loopers requested. What new recordings do you recommend? (I really enjoyed learning about DJ Spooky from the last thread of posts.) Mark Kata Mark@asisoftware.com >> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 21:48:34 -0300 From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: interactive loops Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thanks, UFO, I think I understood: Non interactive (base) loops are the long ones, the fundament that continues rolling, while interactive loops serve for short time colouring or superposing. Since the interactive ones are short and disappear rather soon, you do not have to care about syncing them with the base loop. Right? Matthias ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 21:51:14 -0300 From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: "exciting e-bow effect", etc. Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >- "The problem with this effect is it is short lived. Unless >you can change at lot of almost dead batteries quickly?" > >- put a pot on it? Right Fred! Maybe rather a switch and a voltage stabilizer, a resistor will reduce current while the battery probably looses tension only. I may be wrong. Someone with a scope to look at the tension of a low battery in a Ebow? Matthias ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 18:53:05 -0800 From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Recommended Recordings Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Anyone have any reactions to the band "Zoviet France"? They have a zillion >albums out of varying quality, but they seem to be dedicated loopers in that >"creepy and scary" non-groove, non-beat related way. My personal opinion is >that they alternate between awesomeness/mediocrity, but as a band they are >undeniably interesting. > >My personal favorite ZF is a live album called "Vienna, 1990" > >(Anyone know what gear they are using? The newer stuff sounds like cheap >found sounds put through a high-end Lexicon reverb). > >Pete I listened to a lot of Zoviet France a few years ago, and Vienna 1990 was my favorite also, the only disc of theirs I still own. I completely agree with your assesment of their sound, amazing what a really great 'verb can do. I undeerstand that one of the members now does more traditional ambient techno under the name Rapoon, haven't heard them but have heard good things about them. Another interesting band in a similar vein is P16.D4, a German group from the early 80s. I have a CD called "Kuhe in 1/2 Trauer" which evidently compiles much of their output from 80-83. Very compelling, dark music-concrete, with some very cool analog tape loops. Lo-fi, but with a sophisticated esthetic. Also, German composer Bernhard Guntherr does some very interesting stuff with samples of very small quiet sounds time-streched, pitch-shifted and looped into longer pieces. I attended an informal "performance" of his last year, it was him playing his CD's while talking about the pieces, answering questions, etc. His music is extremely "difficult" often acting at the very edge of audibility (is that a word?), and I'm not sure I would have gotten to appreciate it without hearing him explain it, but I do like his records. One piece uses a pine cone as the source-sounds, plucking the leaves very close to a mic, and sampling the output. His goal is to have the sounds work on a very purely textural level, and he'd prefer that his listeners not be trying to "guess the sample". Interesting guy, very affable and friendly considering how difficult and foreboding his music is. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 19:30:23 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: terminology help Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 20 Jun 1997, Mikell D. Nelson wrote: > Can someone provide clear definitions of ostinato and legato, > especially as they would apply to guitar. Being a 'street' musician I > don't know the meaning of many musical terms. Thanks for the primer. An ostinato is essentially a repeated figure or phrase, particularly with regards to the rhythmic element. Just about any loop could probably be classified as an ostinato figure of some kind or another. Legato refers to a type of phrasing, employing a very smooth and sustained articulation between notes. Allan Holdsworth's "school" of playing is often referred to as the "legato technique," due largely to its very smooth, horn-like quality. The opposite of this is stacatto, which deals with much shorter note durations and a more percussive, "clipped" sense of articulation. Al DiMeola might be a good example of this for guitar; flamenco guitar phrasing is generally very stacatto as well, with its bursts and flurries of activity. Hope this is helpful, --Andre ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 00:57:05 GMT From: sarajane@tmbsbbs.com (Sarajane) To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: more recommended listening... Message-Id: <970620220006276@tmbsbbs.com> I'm glad to see the recent posts concerning favorite loopish music. The following are some of my dated, but sincere choices of mostly ambient listenings, featuring repetitive or textural motifs of note 1. Walter-Wendy Carlos/ Sonic Seasonings--- 1972 Columbia Four sides(seasons) of vinyl virtuality via electronic tweakings. 2. Henry Wolff & Nancy Hennings/ Tibetan Bells-----1973 Antilles The true ringing in ones ears, if one could hear it. 3. Philip Glass/ Music in Twelve Parts Parts 1&2----1974 Virgin IMHO...the best Glass. Saw him with ensemble live in 1980 in a small room at the Cincinnatti Museum of Contemporary Art...loud and proud minimalism it was. 4. Neil Ardley/ Kaleidoscope of Rainbows---1976 Gull Actually about as ambient as Sketches of Spain, but to me more like a quasi-big band minimalistic excursion, worth the listen. 5. Jan Garabek/Dis----1977 ECM Ralph Towner and a beautiful Aeolian harp help make this a one of a kind collection of pieces. 6. Steve Hillage/ Rainbow Dome Musick---1979 Virgin Although mentioned on the list recently, this recording warrants further acknowedgement for its pioneering vision and tonality. 7. Gavin Bryars/ Hommages---1981 Les Disques du Crepuscle With the exception of the short piece that ends side one, this is a wonderfully delicate recording with an acoustic ambience that is not often heard. 8. Brian Eno/ Ambient 4 On Land-----1982 EG A collection of almost organicly industrial atmospheres not unlike urban landscapes at 3 in the morning. 9. Brian Eno/ Thursday Afternoon---1985 EG A single 61 minute work that defines certain aspects of modern ambient music better than any other work I've ever heard. 10. Scott Johnson/ John Somebody-----1985 Nonsuch? O.K. so again it's not ambient , but the looping and playing here is solidly ahead of the overall curve of music utilizing signal regeneration as a tool in composition. In addition to these there are a lot of individual tracks from various other recordings that I'll have to compile later, but that's enough of me for now, hope you get a chance to hear some of the above selections. Loop on........ Bryan Helm "You couldn't tune a kazoo, Servo!" Crow T. Robot ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 04:01:33 -0400 (EDT) From: BobbyZZZ@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: LVX NOVA on tour late july/early august Message-ID: <970621040132_644451004@emout20.mail.aol.com> hi all ;-) yes, we will be subjecting ourselves to roadgigs from 7/28 through 8/4 from boston, DC, atlanta, new york, chapel hill and raleigh....anyone want to do some shows??? bobby d/lvx nova http://www.sar.usf.edu/~devito "LVX NOVA" the CD out July 15th worldwide on MIRAMAR/BMG, check it out :-) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 02:23:56 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: LVX NOVA on tour/West Coast gigs update Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 21 Jun 1997 BobbyZZZ@aol.com wrote: > hi all ;-) > yes, we will be subjecting ourselves to roadgigs from 7/28 through 8/4 from > boston, DC, atlanta, new york, chapel hill and raleigh....anyone want to do > some shows??? > bobby d/lvx nova I'd love to check you guys out or offer myself up as an opening sacrifice (if that is indeed what you're referring to in the above message), but right now I think the localles you mentioned above are a bit far of a commute from LA. Please keep us up to date as far as if and when you might be out here, and let us know how the East Coast gigs go. I'm still hoping to get some performances underway along the West Coast in the very near future. The invitation from the Loopdoctors to share a coffeehouse bill remains very interesting to me, and I'd like to take them up on the offer soon; hopefully I can arrange something in the Bay Area within a day or two of their usual time (is it still the second Friday of every month?) in order to maximize the trip north. I've spoken to other people on this list about trying to arrange other regional concerts around the West Coast; there are some possibilities looming here in LA, as well as San Diego and Oregon. These would ideally be joint gigs, featuring myself and regional loopists playing both solo and in tandem. Now that I'm out of school and staring down the great gaping "NOW WHAT?!?!", the time seems ripe to push for these shows. I'm also seriously contemplating trying to land some gigs at techno clubs; I don't anticipate the more resolutely anti-rock elements of electronica culture welcoming a guitarist into their ranks with open arms (though I'd love to be proven wrong), but I think it can work, if I'm given a chance to try. I have a feeling that the current mainstream media infatuation with electronic music can help make our own efforts more palatable to people who might otherwise turn a deaf ear to the idea. Maybe I'll drag my drum machine along and sync the Echoplex up to it (or the other way around!) At any rate, if anyone on this list is interested in helping to organize and participate in some live shows along the West Coast, and particularly in the SoCal area, mail me back and we'll try and get the ball rolling. I know things have been very sluggish thus far, but I'm now ready and able to start organizing things in a serious way. In the immediate future, I'm going to check out Lumpy Gravy here in LA, which is a fairly new restaurant/gallery/performance space. I plan to inquire about doing some solo gigs, and if they prove receptive to the idea (and if the place proves a good venue), it might be an ideal localle for the much-discussed West Coast summit. Keep your fingers crossed, --Andre ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 05:54:24 -0400 From: Michael Peters To: "'Looper's Delight'" Subject: FW: Hiya looper ! Message-ID: <199706210554_MC2-18E5-59CF@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline can anyone help Remy? please, don't reply to me (Michael Peters) but to the address in the footer. -----Original Message----- From: "Laurent & Sophie Martinez" Sent: Saturday, June 21, 1997 12:42 AM Subject: Hiya looper ! Hello from Nice, French Riviera ! My cousin is a percussions player. He have no access to Internet. He uses my Email to write to you the following letter. I translated it from french, so I apologize in advance for my english that is not as good as I would want ! (c; If you ever want to answer his question, use my email : lofie@worldnet.fr Thanx for him ! ------------ What a good surprise it was to find the Looper's Delight Site ! It gave me hope in what I'm trying to do. Here is what I wanna do, I wish you'll be able to help me. In January 96, I bought the KORG WaveDrum which is a wonderfull electronic percussion instrument. Now, I need to be able to use the WaveDrum to get, in real time, rhythm loops that I'd like to add or to superpose the one on the other in order to perform musical sets for an audience. I already did it using the Cubase music software on a computer. But that needs too much handling. So I just bought a JAMMAN which I save loops with, then I use an OBERHEIM to change the features of the loops (LFO, CutOff, ...etc). My problem is that I can't (or don't know how to) part each loop that I saved and modify the features (LFO, CutOff...etc) of each one separately. Could you help me in any way ? Thanx a lot in advance ! Remy HULNE ------------------ Laurent MARTINEZ for Remy HULNE ==================================== lofie@worldnet.fr http://www.worldnet.fr/~lofie/ ==================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 05:54:27 -0400 From: Michael Peters To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: who puts together all those recommendations? Message-ID: <199706210554_MC2-18E5-59D0@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Wow, so many interesting music recommendations. (My record dealer is already salivating thinking of my money.) I think all those listening recommendations should somehow be saved, collected, and included on our loopology webpage. But ... I don't have the time to do the collecting. Any volunteers? I could, as usual, do the formatting. And here's my recommendation for the day: Michel Redolfi: DETOURS mirage musical records mm303 (I found this at Amoeba Music in Berkeley which is a very good store) Detours is a sampler of Michel's computer generated ambient music. Do listen to this if you're into vast and strange sound worlds which will open up your brain and make your jaw drop. This guy is incredible. If you like this record, there are some more. The last piece (Too Much Sky): "A few harp phrases played by Melissa Morgan in 1981 were digitally 'stretched'; this process was used on the piece in several studios over the next five years. An alchemical transformation of the initial arpeggios into an harmonic veil." ___________ Michael Peters http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters HOP - Fractals in Motion ..."the only screen saver you'll ever want" http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/hop.htm Support the Warr Guitar Defense Fund http://home.earthlink.net/~greendog/warrfund.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 02:55:11 -0700 From: Kim Flint To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: plex fading problem Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 3:52 PM -0700 6/20/97, rick canton wrote: >to kim or someone who knows, >i have two plex`s w/ 198 sec each , synched . >if i loop anything , weather its 1 second or more , >one of my plex starts to fade slowly after about 5 minutes of repeating >the loop. both units have the feedback knob cranked .... >the other stays strong.... >whats up? is it the memory? the feetback pot? >thanks, >rick There is a bug which causes that problem, which I hope will soon be fixed... Basically, the master sets the feedback slightly down in the slave with a wrong continuous controller command. And the slave loop very slowly fades out. There is a simple workaround until the software fix is done. If you set the feedback continuous controller to a different one on the slave than the master, it should be fine. You do that with the parameter called "FeedBkCont." If you never adjust feedback. you are done. If you want feedback control of both units your best bet is a midi expression pedal, sending on both continous controllers. Another reasonable option is to use a stereo volume pedal plugged into both feedback pedal jacks. hope this helps, kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 11:39:58 -0700 From: Kim Flint To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: loopers software Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Can any of you help this fellow? reply directly to him, he's not on the list. thanks, kim >>From kflint Thu Jun 19 04:58:16 1997 >Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 20:02:56 +0800 >From: ociv >Reply-To: nikhail@asiaonline.net >MIME-Version: 1.0 >To: kflint@annihilist.com >Subject: loopers software >X-Priority: 3 (Normal) > >hi, how y'all doing. > >well let me introduce myself. > >i'm ricky and my d.j. name is crazy v. and i do alot of re-mixing for my >own pleasure. hoping i can meet or be with the great re-mixers in the >world like bomb the bass, c&c..etc. >my main question is i just recently got a notebook and my friends told >me you can do alot with a p.c. so i wondered if you know of a looping >software which i can edit and then loop whatever i want and also does it >come in with digital mixer like a 4 track or a 8 track. >please if i can find this i will be really obliged. > >thanks in the meantime. hope you can help me. > >yours faithfully....the loop man >crazy v > ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com --------------------------------