------------------------------ Loopers-Delight-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 20 Today's Topics: Re: ANYONE KNOW THE MIDI PEDAL SCHEM [ klaw@iglou.com ] Re: PMC-10 again [ klaw@iglou.com ] Re: RE:Time for digitech machine pag [ "Randy Jones" ] Re: praxis (ws some torn rec. CDs) [ Jeff Duke ] Kundun [ Neil Goldstein ] Re: ANYONE KNOW THE MIDI PEDAL SCHEM [ erich kory ] Re: Kundun [ "Stephen P. Goodman" ] Re: ANYONE KNOW THE MIDI PEDAL SCHEM [ ENAT21213 ] Re: Kundun [ TritoneDW ] Re: Kundun [ Ken Mistove ] Buckethead (was RE: praxis ) [ "Scott Johnson (CAN)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello everyone . Top o the day to ya. Regarding switching loops with ccs : How is this done? I thought the ccs were feedback, vol. I switch with note ons did I miss something? Also perhaps a question for KIm : Is it possible with current hardware on plex to reset loops to startpoint when using nxtloop? This has always seemed so logical& musical.If I have a number of loops in a piece I need them to start at the beginning when I switch rather than run continously. I supose it would have its uses in a random sort of way but its not very predictable. Maybe have a option to reset or run like in mute mode.BTW thanks Kim for your ideas on the quantize function. I finally found a use for this!Works excellent in V5.0. Also little tid bit for those interesed : Long delay module(on sampling board) in Eventide 4000 does not change pitch when adjusting delay range only lenghth>effectively performing a real time time compression looping function. Very wild. Still working on that page Kim. I have much to report. Cheers K Law >At 3:10 AM -0500 1/21/98, ENAT21213 wrote: >>Thanks for the quick reply Kim. >> The echoplex sounds way more complex than my jamman.Im thinking of >>investing in one?The only problem I have is this midi controller/echoplex >>pedalboard access loop 1 thru 9 tap thing. >> What I do is midi merge two ada mc1 midi pedal controllers together .This >>gives me access to all 19 of jammans loop functions without having to bank up >>and down.The ada mc1 has 10 buttons on the face of one pedalboard.So with the >>press of a button I can get around with ease (essential for me,especially >>live).I would love it if the echoplex would react in a similar way. > >The Echoplex (the technology we at Aurisis develop that runs the echoplex >is called Loop, btw) can react that way, but I suspect that your current >pedals either won't do it or won't do it in a satisfactory way. You might >want to consider upgrading to a more capable pedal, or get the pedal >designed for the echoplex. Again, I'm not familiar with the ADA pedal, but >I believe it is a very simple one. You can't expect it to do everything.... > >>I realize >>the echoplex does not accept midi program changes messages.You mentioned that >>this feature will be added in a future echoplex.Any idea when this version >>will be avalible? > >What I meant is we may add program change support to Loop for the purposes >of changing programs, which is the purpose of that midi command. So you >would be able to change from one setup to another by sending a program >change command, in the same way you change patches on a multi-effect or a >synth with program change messages. > >Using program change messages for executing functions on the echoplex is >problematic, for one thing because it would interfere with us using it for >the intended purpose defined in the midi standard of changing programs. >Another reason is that a midi program change message simply contains less >information than note and continuous control messages. We use all of the >information in the later types to make the midi interface more elegant and >musically intuitive, while allowing you to control more things with fewer >buttons. Changing the interface to work with program change messages makes >it less intuitive and harder to use, and some functions won't be available >at all. And that's opposed to our general design philosophy for Loop. All >of our efforts are focused on designing an interface that is musically >useful and intuitive. We wouldn't want to release something that gives >anyone a lesser experience with Loop. We'll continue to investigate this >possibility, but I'm not very positive about it. Being compatible with >every ancient midi pedal is not a task I relish! > >As far as when any future versions of Loop might be available, we don't >discuss that. Since we just released a major version a few months ago, you >might imagine that it won't be very soon, but we are always working on new >developments. > > >>Sounds like the midi note or continuous controller message for changing >>loops in echoplex may work for me?Not shure though,is anyone out there >>using a >>similar set up to mine with the echoplex?If so mabey you can let me know how >>this midi note/continouous controler thing works with your midi pedal.I >>really >>need to be able to jump from one function to the next with minimal tapping. > >I have a digitech PMC-10 pedal set up to do this, and it works very well. I >got the pedal for $100. > >> Any Oberheim dealers in my area?I live in Myrtle Beach S.C. ,anywhere in >>S.C.,N.C. or GA. would work.I would love to try one out.I'd probably >>order one >>right now if I knew I could access most functions(especially loops 1 thru 9) >>with the press of one button. > >You have to ask Oberheim about that..... > >kim > > >>Thanks for your help and patience, >>Brian McKenzie >> >> >>In a message dated 98-01-20 06:39:06 EST, you write: >> >><< And last is switching with midi. Unlike the JamMan, the echoplex is more >> like a sampler in this respect. It uses Midi Notes or Continuous Controller >> messages for changing loops. If you have the velocity parameter turned on, >> the Echoplex will use the velocity info in the note on message (or the >> value of the controller) to set the volume of the loop you switch to. You >> jump directly to the loop you want by pressing it's associated >> Note/controller number. (you can set which notes/controllers it uses for >> the loops.) >> > > >______________________________________________________________________ >Kim Flint | Looper's Delight >kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html >http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 14:13:02 -0500 From: klaw@iglou.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: PMC-10 again Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sean The programmer is the only ticket. Good luck on finding one . Ive had two of these & never had any crashes but that little box! Dont get me started.. Great unit shame no one needed the "advanced" functions according to DTech. Only other current option would be All Acess I guess. Good Luck in your search K LAW >PMC-10 owners, > >I've got an opportunity to pick up a PMC-10 with power supply BUT no remote >programmer. Is the hand-held device the only way to program it? Probably >no manual either. Can it be programmed via sysex? I saw a programmer for >a Digitech DSP256 - anyone ever try plugging it into the PMC-10? > >Thanks for any advice, >Sean ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 14:59:46 -0600 From: "Randy Jones" To: Subject: Re: RE:Time for digitech machine page Message-ID: <01bd29d4$2abee100$283163d1@user.texas.net> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, speaking for EVERYONE, send us the Pixs of the GF Tweaking!!! Randy Jones -----Original Message----- From: CORROSIVE@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Saturday, January 24, 1998 10:55 PM Subject: Re: RE:Time for digitech machine page >oh yeah... if you want, I'd be glad to provide pictures of my really cute >girlfriend twiddling PDS-8000 knobs... or tweaking pretty much any Electro >Harmonix effect ( except the attack decay- still fishin for 1 of them) > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 18:00:46 -0500 From: Jeff Duke To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: praxis (ws some torn rec. CDs) Message-ID: <34CBC41D.575B0872@bellsouth.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Buckets got a new website at; http://www.bucketheadland.com/index.html Jeff TritoneDW wrote: > Another plug for Buckethead (and the whole Laswell contingent). Just great > guitar playing. The Laswell projects can be pretty hit and miss, but there's > always something good in there somewhere. > > Buckethead did an ambient album under the name Death Cube K (it's an anagram > for Buckethead--cute huh?) a few years ago. I'm not sure if it's loop > based--haven't heard it since I picked up my JamPig. Anyway, it was also > produced by Laswell. It's filled with dark textures and such. Some of you may > want to check it out. Buckethead fans beware, though--I don't think there's a > single solo on the whole disc. > > Drew Wheeler ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 15:33:29 -0800 From: Neil Goldstein To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Kundun Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980125153329.006aaf74@mail.imagina.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Just saw Scorsese's film on the Dalai Lama, Kundun. Fantastic work, important document. Generous looping through much of this powerful and evocative film c/o Philip Glass' music. As I was watching this film, some parts resembling the great Konyaskatsii (sp?) I realized that like it or not, my first exposure to looping as a compositional idiom was via Glass music. Hat's off. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 19:24:56 GMT From: erich kory To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: ANYONE KNOW THE MIDI PEDAL SCHEME FOR THE ECHOPLEX? Message-Id: <199801251924.TAA17224@phyleus.interlinx.qc.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I use the Ground Control MIDI foot controller and this same problem is the reason i have used my Jamman the last three years instead of the Echoplex. I have been waiting for this upgrade in hopes that i will finnally be able to jump from Loop 5 to Loop 2 (for example) with one push of my Ground Control. I can do this with the Jamman from Lexicon (a company not known for it's MIDI know-how). Using those 2 loopers and other effects,wah-wah,etc. have my feet already doing loop-de-loops, so i don't have enough floor space for the Echoplex footpedal, even if it did go directly to any loop. I'm waiting to see if the upgrade will make that happen........... erich kory At 06:36 PM 1/24/98 -0800, you wrote: >At 3:10 AM -0500 1/21/98, ENAT21213 wrote: >>Thanks for the quick reply Kim. >> The echoplex sounds way more complex than my jamman.Im thinking of >>investing in one?The only problem I have is this midi controller/echoplex >>pedalboard access loop 1 thru 9 tap thing. >> What I do is midi merge two ada mc1 midi pedal controllers together .This >>gives me access to all 19 of jammans loop functions without having to bank up >>and down.The ada mc1 has 10 buttons on the face of one pedalboard.So with the >>press of a button I can get around with ease (essential for me,especially >>live).I would love it if the echoplex would react in a similar way. > >The Echoplex (the technology we at Aurisis develop that runs the echoplex >is called Loop, btw) can react that way, but I suspect that your current >pedals either won't do it or won't do it in a satisfactory way. You might >want to consider upgrading to a more capable pedal, or get the pedal >designed for the echoplex. Again, I'm not familiar with the ADA pedal, but >I believe it is a very simple one. You can't expect it to do everything.... > >>I realize >>the echoplex does not accept midi program changes messages.You mentioned that >>this feature will be added in a future echoplex.Any idea when this version >>will be avalible? > >What I meant is we may add program change support to Loop for the purposes >of changing programs, which is the purpose of that midi command. So you >would be able to change from one setup to another by sending a program >change command, in the same way you change patches on a multi-effect or a >synth with program change messages. > >Using program change messages for executing functions on the echoplex is >problematic, for one thing because it would interfere with us using it for >the intended purpose defined in the midi standard of changing programs. >Another reason is that a midi program change message simply contains less >information than note and continuous control messages. We use all of the >information in the later types to make the midi interface more elegant and >musically intuitive, while allowing you to control more things with fewer >buttons. Changing the interface to work with program change messages makes >it less intuitive and harder to use, and some functions won't be available >at all. And that's opposed to our general design philosophy for Loop. All >of our efforts are focused on designing an interface that is musically >useful and intuitive. We wouldn't want to release something that gives >anyone a lesser experience with Loop. We'll continue to investigate this >possibility, but I'm not very positive about it. Being compatible with >every ancient midi pedal is not a task I relish! > >As far as when any future versions of Loop might be available, we don't >discuss that. Since we just released a major version a few months ago, you >might imagine that it won't be very soon, but we are always working on new >developments. > > >>Sounds like the midi note or continuous controller message for changing >>loops in echoplex may work for me?Not shure though,is anyone out there using a >>similar set up to mine with the echoplex?If so mabey you can let me know how >>this midi note/continouous controler thing works with your midi pedal.I really >>need to be able to jump from one function to the next with minimal tapping. > >I have a digitech PMC-10 pedal set up to do this, and it works very well. I >got the pedal for $100. > >> Any Oberheim dealers in my area?I live in Myrtle Beach S.C. ,anywhere in >>S.C.,N.C. or GA. would work.I would love to try one out.I'd probably order one >>right now if I knew I could access most functions(especially loops 1 thru 9) >>with the press of one button. > >You have to ask Oberheim about that..... > >kim > > >>Thanks for your help and patience, >>Brian McKenzie >> >> >>In a message dated 98-01-20 06:39:06 EST, you write: >> >><< And last is switching with midi. Unlike the JamMan, the echoplex is more >> like a sampler in this respect. It uses Midi Notes or Continuous Controller >> messages for changing loops. If you have the velocity parameter turned on, >> the Echoplex will use the velocity info in the note on message (or the >> value of the controller) to set the volume of the loop you switch to. You >> jump directly to the loop you want by pressing it's associated >> Note/controller number. (you can set which notes/controllers it uses for >> the loops.) >> > > >______________________________________________________________________ >Kim Flint | Looper's Delight >kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html >http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 16:52:15 -0800 From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: Re: Kundun Message-ID: <001401bd29f4$a72c4fa0$4623dacf@sgoodman> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Neil Goldstein mentioned: >Generous looping through much of this powerful and evocative film c/o >Philip Glass' music. > >As I was watching this film, some parts resembling the great Konyaskatsii >(sp?) I realized that like it or not, my first exposure to looping as a >compositional idiom was via Glass music. I saw a marvelous interview that Scorsese did lately on Charlie Rose (PBS), where he talked about the music. He'd first been exposed to Philip Glass' work via Koyaaniskatsi (1982?), a film so beautiful as to bring tears to the eyes - oh, for the letterbox version! There was a sequel, by the way, called Powaaniskatsi (the Hopi word apparently describing the assumption of power through consumption); the music is more world-oriented, but still Glass. I first encountered his work some years after being exposed to Fripp/Eno/Cage et. al. in the mid-70s; I went to a benefit for the Kitchen in NYC, which billed (amongst others) DNA, David Byrne, a video installation (On Land, actually) by Brian Eno, and the Philip Glass Ensemble. The benefit was held in Bond's, an old clothing store-turned-club, and there were so many celebs (in terms of the New Music scene and others) I couldn't help but notice the absence of Mr.'s Fripp or Eno, for that matter. (I think the League of Gentlemen was touring then, anyhoo). Anyway! I needed to point out something about Philip Glass' music with respect to looping. The only looping is from the compositional standpoint, and not because of any technology. To see an orchestra play his work is something else, I imagine - the Ensemble alone looked like they shed quite a lot of sweat at the Kitchen, Mr.. Glass playing keyboards also, and conducting using accentuated nods of his head, which sported a bushy cloud of hair (then). They were playing it all, man. However, it Wasn't IMHO 'looping' as most of us on this list know it. More like a compositional 'repeat', but then I know not much of music composition in the parochial-classical sense. :) Anyone? Is 'repeat' the correct musical term? I *know* it's not 'loop'. :) Stephen Goodman * Download The Loop Of The Week and more! EarthLight Studios * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios *--------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 00:11:40 EST From: Marzzz To: sgoodman@earthlight.net, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Kundun Message-ID: <292fb2bb.34cc1b0e@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/25/98 6:56:18 PM, you wrote: >Anyway! I needed to point out something about Philip Glass' music with >respect to looping. The only looping is from the compositional standpoint, >and not because of any technology. To see an orchestra play his work is >something else, I imagine - the Ensemble alone looked like they shed quite a >lot of sweat at the Kitchen, Mr.. Glass playing keyboards also, and >conducting using accentuated nods of his head, which sported a bushy cloud >of hair (then). They were playing it all, man. However, it Wasn't IMHO >'looping' as most of us on this list know it. More like a compositional >'repeat', but then I know not much of music composition in the >parochial-classical sense. :) Anyone? Is 'repeat' the correct musical >term? I *know* it's not 'loop'. :) Yes, repeat is definitely a correct term here, though I have never actually seen a Glass score, he may have everything written out just to keep musicians from getting lost. I once saw a collection of small plays in the Body Politic Theatre in Chicago, one of which was called "Phillip Glass Buys a Loaf of Bread," in which the actors conversed in a looping, minimalist way (in a minimalist bakery with ONE loaf of bread) that interacted in an ever-shifting pattern....it is kind of hard to describe, but it BRILLIANTLY portrayed Glass' music in the form of "dialogue" and greatly shed light on how his music worked....and was amusing as hell!!! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 00:46:32 EST From: ENAT21213 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: ANYONE KNOW THE MIDI PEDAL SCHEME FOR THE ECHOPLEX? Message-ID: <4ecc34fb.34cc233a@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hello everyone, Thanks to Kim for his time and patience with me. How about if the echoplex pedalboard was designed to contain 9 extra buttons that would access loops 1 thru 9.I believe this would solve this tap up or down to get to a desired loop problem.You could have buttons 1 thru 9 on the top row and the record,undo ect. buttons on the bottom row(or vice versa)of the pedalboard.This would save alot of stage space.I really would love to get an echoplex but its looking like I will have to spend around $885 bucks(echoplex,pedalboard and a$100 for a midi pedal that will work) to get the echoplex to work for me the way I need it to.Or mabey you and Oberheim could design a program change friendly echoplex?Now this would be cool then I could use my ancient ada midi pedals.Till then I gess I'l keep looping with my jamman. Again thanks for your time and patience Brian McKenzie In a message dated 98-01-25 19:28:13 EST, << I use the Ground Control MIDI foot controller and this same problem is the reason i have used my Jamman the last three years instead of the Echoplex. I have been waiting for this upgrade in hopes that i will finnally be able to jump from Loop 5 to Loop 2 (for example) with one push of my Ground Control. I can do this with the Jamman from Lexicon (a company not known for it's MIDI know-how). >> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 02:07:55 EST From: TritoneDW To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Kundun Message-ID: <4f3e2abd.34cc364d@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit <> Ok, I'm sure I'm not the only "classically" trained musician here, but I'm the one who checked my e-mail three times today, so I guess I get first crack at the official explanation of all this stuff. Mr. Glass is what's called a Minimalist composer. Other famous Minimalists are Steve Reich (composed "Electric Counterpoint", performed by Pat Metheney) and John Adams (composed "The Death of Klinghoffer", and "Nixon in China", as well as the Minimalist landmark "In C"). The basic idea of Minimalism in music is to compose peices with a minimal amount of motivic material--just a couple little ideas, or hooks. The interest from the piece comes from the very gradual and subtle change introduced to the piece over time. (Make no mistake--these pieces are composed, there is no improvisation involved.) Glass, for example, tends to create change in his pieces through additive and subtractive processes--adding a note to a motive, or taking one away. (If this idea doesn't make sense in print, just listen to his music--you'll know what I mean.) Listening to these pieces is very much like watching clouds move across the sky, in a good way. Minimalism, by it's very nature, involves a LOT of repetition (repetition is certainly a viable term here). In this way it is sort of like looping. Certainly people who can listen to looped music and think it's interesting would probably relate to Minimalist work, at least on some level. The movies Koyaanisqatsi and Powaqatsi (I'm pretty sure on the spelling of the two) are excellent introductions to the work of Philip Glass, as there are really stunning visual accompaniments to the music. Other pieces to check out would be "In C" by John Adams (a piece in which several players play different little fragments of music in the key of C), and "Piano Phase" by Steve Reich. "Piano Phase" is pretty cool. Basically, two pianists play the same 12 note repeated pattern, starting in unison. One player then speeds up ever-so- slightly, until their pattern has shifted one note ahead of the other player's. This goes on until the faster player has come all the way around the pattern to play in unison again. You can imagine that it's pretty hard for the "steady" player to keep an even tempo. Anyway, the piece takes around twenty minutes to play all the way through, and it's really cool. When played well, you can hear all these crazy sub-patterns and cross rhythms in the "in between" parts. I've been trying to play it on guitar, with the old JamPig playing the steady, but the pattern is a bit un-guitaristic (poor me! I'll have to practice...). Drew W. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 06:30:18 -0500 From: Ken Mistove To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Kundun Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Terry Riley is the composer of "In C", not John Adams. An excellent piece by Adams is "Light Over Water" composed for Brass and Synthesizer. >and John Adams (composed >"The Death of Klinghoffer", and "Nixon in China", as well as the Minimalist >landmark "In C"). Ken Ken Mistove kmistove@eclipse.net new stuff: http://www.geocities.com/~kenzak/ old stuff: http://www.eclipse.net/~kmistove/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:42:52 -0500 From: "Scott Johnson (CAN)" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Buckethead (was RE: praxis ) Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain > Buckethead did an ambient album under the name Death Cube K (it's an anagram > for Buckethead--cute huh?) a few years ago. He's got 2 albums under the Death Cube K persona (with Bill Laswell). They are certainly both excellent discs, but you must certainly be into that "dark", and "foreboding" type of ambient sound. It's actually something that Buckethead has always had a penchant for (I recall him toying with such textures on the original masters for _Bucketheadland_ years ago). Scott ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 09:50:13 -0500 (EST) From: Frank Gerace To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Message-Id: <199801261450.JAA22598@user1.channel1.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" On Wednesday night, January 28th, at 9:00 PM at the Linwood Grille (69 Kilmarnock St. in the Fenway, Boston MA) The Vortex (a collective of Boston bands) presents an evening of dark psychedelia with Dreamchild Orifice Sabot Cover charge is $5 Dreamchild will be doing their atmospherics, somewhat ambient, melodic looper-enabled brand of music and welcome any from the lsit who can make it into the wilds of Boston. --------------------------------