------------------------------
Loopers-Delight-d Digest				Volume 98 : Issue 22

Today's Topics:
  re:KUNDUN                             [ innerspace@mediaone.net ]
  Re: ANYONE KNOW THE MIDI PEDAL SCHEM  [ klaw@iglou.com ]
  Re: KUNDUN                            [ Jeff Duke <jmar@bellsouth.net> ]
  Re: KUNDUN                            [ Jeff Duke <jmar@bellsouth.net> ]
  looper meeting at NAMM                [ Kim Flint <
<x-rich>------------------------------

Loopers-Delight-d Digest				Volume 98 : Issue 22


Today's Topics:

  re:KUNDUN                             [ innerspace@mediaone.net ]

  Re: ANYONE KNOW THE MIDI PEDAL SCHEM  [ klaw@iglou.com ]

  Re: KUNDUN                            [ Jeff Duke <<jmar@bellsouth.net> ]

  Re: KUNDUN                            [ Jeff Duke <<jmar@bellsouth.net> ]

  looper meeting at NAMM                [ Kim Flint <<kflint@annihilist.com> ]

  Re: Kundun                            [ Anthony Bowyer-Lowe <<anthony@amudar ]

  Re: Steve Reich, phase changes etc.   [ R & T Cummings <<R_T_Cummings@compus ]

  Re: looper meeting at NAMM            [ patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) ]

  Re: looper meeting at NAMM            [ Tom Spaulding <<tspauldi@gibson.com> ]

  Re[2]: Lexicon not known for MIDI kn  [ Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) ]

  The LoOpDoctOrs suggest worthy Loopi  [ Fmplautus <<Fmplautus@aol.com> ]

  Re: ANYONE KNOW THE MIDI PEDAL SCHEM  [ ENAT21213 <<ENAT21213@aol.com> ]

  Re: The LoOpDoctOrs suggest worthy L  [ Tom Spaulding <<tspauldi@gibson.com> ]

    [ Jeff Schwartz <<jeffs@bgnet.bgsu.edu ]


Administrivia:

Looper's Delight

****************


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Kim Flint

kflint@annihilist.com


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 20:22:25 -0500

From: innerspace@mediaone.net

To: 

	"Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" <<Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>

Subject: re:KUNDUN

Message-ID: <<34CD36D0.56E29B9C@mediaone.net>

Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------62ED05461DEA1E9CF6737026"


   

  

 


KunDun  is brilliant, isn't it....   incredibly vivid depiction of the Tibetan people and the hardships they've endured for the last 50 years... they shall succeed I think... 

Glass gets loopy here too... to great effect... I don't if the music/sound from the film and the soundtrack were intended to work together so well, and/or whether or not it was glass' idea or scorcese's, but it blew me away... emo-tonal-overload.. 

 


Just saw Scorsese's film on the Dalai Lama, Kundun. Fantastic work, 

important document.


Generous looping through much of this powerful and evocative film c/o


Philip Glass' music.


As I was watching this film, some parts resembling the great Konyaskatsii 

(sp?) I realized that like it or not, my first exposure to looping as a 

compositional idiom was via Glass music.


Hat's off.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 22:16:33 -0500

From: klaw@iglou.com

To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com

Subject: Re: ANYONE KNOW THE MIDI PEDAL SCHEME FOR THE ECHOPLEX?

Message-Id: <<v03007800b0f2bd3add27@[204.255.239.165]>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


Hello everyone .  Top o the day to ya. Regarding switching loops with ccs :

How is this done? I thought the ccs were feedback, vol. I switch with note

ons did I miss something?

Also perhaps a question for KIm : Is it possible with current hardware on

plex to reset loops to startpoint when using nxtloop? This has always

seemed so logical& musical.If I have a number of loops in a piece I need

them to  start at the beginning when I switch rather than run continously.

I supose it would have its uses in a random sort of way but its not very

predictable. Maybe have a option to reset or run like in mute mode.BTW

thanks Kim for your ideas on the quantize function. I finally found a use

for this!Works excellent in V5.0.

Also little tid bit for those interesed : Long delay module(on sampling

board) in Eventide 4000 does not change pitch when adjusting delay range

only lenghth>effectively performing a real time  time compression looping

function. Very wild. Still working on that page Kim. I have much to report.


                          Cheers   K Law

















>At 3:10 AM -0500 1/21/98, ENAT21213 wrote:

>>Thanks for the quick reply Kim.

>>      The echoplex sounds way more complex than my jamman.Im thinking of

>>investing in one?The only problem I have is this midi controller/echoplex

>>pedalboard access loop 1 thru 9 tap thing.

>>   What I do is midi merge two ada mc1 midi pedal controllers together .This

>>gives me access to all 19 of jammans loop functions without having to bank up

>>and down.The ada mc1 has 10 buttons on the face of one pedalboard.So with the

>>press of a button I can get around with ease (essential for me,especially

>>live).I would love it if the echoplex would react in a similar way.

>

>The Echoplex (the technology we at Aurisis develop that runs the echoplex

>is called Loop, btw) can react that way, but I suspect that your current

>pedals either won't do it or won't do it in a satisfactory way. You might

>want to consider upgrading to a more capable pedal, or get the pedal

>designed for the echoplex. Again, I'm not familiar with the ADA pedal, but

>I believe it is a very simple one. You can't expect it to do everything....

>

>>I realize

>>the echoplex does not accept midi program changes messages.You mentioned that

>>this feature will be added in a future echoplex.Any idea when this version

>>will be avalible?

>

>What I meant is we may add program change support to Loop for the purposes

>of changing programs, which is the purpose of that midi command. So you

>would be able to change from one setup to another by sending a program

>change command, in the same way you change patches on a multi-effect or a

>synth with program change messages.

>

>Using program change messages for executing functions on the echoplex is

>problematic, for one thing because it would interfere with us using it for

>the intended purpose defined in the midi standard of changing programs.

>Another reason is that a midi program change message simply contains less

>information than note and continuous control messages. We use all of the

>information in the later types to make the midi interface more elegant and

>musically intuitive, while allowing you to control more things with fewer

>buttons. Changing the interface to work with program change messages makes

>it less intuitive and harder to use, and some functions won't be available

>at all. And that's opposed to our general design philosophy for Loop. All

>of our efforts are focused on designing an interface that is musically

>useful and intuitive. We wouldn't want to release something that gives

>anyone a lesser experience with Loop. We'll continue to investigate this

>possibility, but I'm not very positive about it. Being compatible with

>every ancient midi pedal is not a task I relish!

>

>As far as when any future versions of Loop might be available, we don't

>discuss that. Since we just released a major version a few months ago, you

>might imagine that it won't be very soon, but we are always working on new

>developments.

>

>

>>Sounds like the midi note or continuous controller message for changing

>>loops in echoplex may work for me?Not shure though,is anyone out there

>>using a

>>similar set up to mine with the echoplex?If so mabey you can let me know how

>>this midi note/continouous controler thing works with your midi pedal.I

>>really

>>need to be able to jump from one function to the next with minimal tapping.

>

>I have a digitech PMC-10 pedal set up to do this, and it works very well. I

>got the pedal for $100.

>

>>     Any Oberheim dealers in my area?I live in Myrtle Beach S.C. ,anywhere in

>>S.C.,N.C. or GA. would work.I would love to try one out.I'd probably

>>order one

>>right now if I knew I could access most functions(especially loops 1 thru 9)

>>with the press of one button.

>

>You have to ask Oberheim about that.....

>

>kim

>

>

>>Thanks for your help and patience,

>>Brian McKenzie

>>

>>

>>In a message dated 98-01-20 06:39:06 EST, you write:

>>

>><<<< And last is switching with midi. Unlike the JamMan, the echoplex is more

>> like a sampler in this respect. It uses Midi Notes or Continuous Controller

>> messages for changing loops. If you have the velocity parameter turned on,

>> the Echoplex will use the velocity info in the note on message (or the

>> value of the controller) to set the volume of the loop you switch to. You

>> jump directly to the loop you want by pressing it's associated

>> Note/controller number. (you can set which notes/controllers it uses for

>> the loops.) >>

>

>

>______________________________________________________________________

>Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight

>kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html

>http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 22:19:34 -0500

From: Jeff Duke <<jmar@bellsouth.net>

To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com

Subject: Re: KUNDUN

Message-ID: <<34CD5246.F6890FB7@bellsouth.net>

Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------67377974919696781990E528"


 By the way,It's at ; <<http://www.uni-paderborn.de/~pg/glass.html>http://www.uni-paderborn.de/~pg/glass.html


innerspace@mediaone.net wrote: 

<paraindent><param>left</param>

  

  

 


KunDun  is brilliant, isn't it....   incredibly vivid depiction of the Tibetan people and the hardships they've endured for the last 50 years... they shall succeed I think... 

Glass gets loopy here too... to great effect... I don't if the music/sound from the film and the soundtrack were intended to work together so well, and/or whether or not it was glass' idea or scorcese's, but it blew me away... emo-tonal-overload.. 

 


Just saw Scorsese's film on the Dalai Lama, Kundun. Fantastic work, 

important document.


Generous looping through much of this powerful and evocative film c/o


Philip Glass' music.


As I was watching this film, some parts resembling the great Konyaskatsii 

(sp?) I realized that like it or not, my first exposure to looping as a 

compositional idiom was via Glass music.


Hat's off.

</paraindent>

  

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 22:16:51 -0500

From: Jeff Duke <<jmar@bellsouth.net>

To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com

Subject: Re: KUNDUN

Message-ID: <<34CD51A3.2C7F2F79@bellsouth.net>

Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------E746305DFDA2168C59B48CFC"


  (Georges Dupuis)


What was the hardest thing to determine in the vinyl era? 

Whether a Brian Eno LP was warped or whether a Philip Glass LP was skipping.


I just checked out The Glass Pages,Alot of various audio,some of which doesn't 

work but alot does.I had never listened to him except now I realize that I have heard him .Varied,but all in a style of his own.I dug the ram of 1001 airplanes but it seems to be an incomplete file. 

Thanks for the tip, 

Jeff


innerspace@mediaone.net wrote: 

<paraindent><param>left</param>

  

  

 


KunDun  is brilliant, isn't it....   incredibly vivid depiction of the Tibetan people and the hardships they've endured for the last 50 years... they shall succeed I think... 

Glass gets loopy here too... to great effect... I don't if the music/sound from the film and the soundtrack were intended to work together so well, and/or whether or not it was glass' idea or scorcese's, but it blew me away... emo-tonal-overload.. 

 


Just saw Scorsese's film on the Dalai Lama, Kundun. Fantastic work, 

important document.


Generous looping through much of this powerful and evocative film c/o


Philip Glass' music.


As I was watching this film, some parts resembling the great Konyaskatsii 

(sp?) I realized that like it or not, my first exposure to looping as a 

compositional idiom was via Glass music.


Hat's off.

</paraindent>

  

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:05:37 -0800

From: Kim Flint <<kflint@annihilist.com>

To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com

Subject: looper meeting at NAMM

Message-Id: <<v03102806b0f3370f6955@[207.171.198.70]>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


Hey those of you going to NAMM,


how bout we try to get together for a little Looper Convention/Lunch at the

show? I'll propose a time:


saturday (jan 31), 1:00pm

at the Oberheim booth, for lack of a better idea. Hopefully there is a

place with edible food somewhere nearby.


see you then.....


kim


______________________________________________________________________

Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight

kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html

http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:25:05 -0000

From: Anthony Bowyer-Lowe <<anthony@amudarya.demon.co.uk>

To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com

Subject: Re: Kundun

Message-ID: <<01bd2ab1$a20a3d80$LocalHost@amudarya>

Content-Type: text/plain

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


>I once saw a collection of small plays in the Body Politic Theatre in

Chicago,

>one of which was called "Phillip Glass Buys a Loaf of Bread," in which the

>actors conversed in a looping, minimalist way (in a minimalist bakery with

ONE

>loaf of bread) that interacted in an ever-shifting pattern....it is kind of

>hard to describe, but it BRILLIANTLY portrayed Glass' music in the form of

>"dialogue" and greatly shed light on how his music worked....and was amusing

>as hell!!!



Sounds great!

I often use operations from one system to create products in another system.

People tend to look at me strange when I say things like 'Anagrams are

maths are art are techno', though...


Here's an example of techno in ascii art:


X---X---X---X--o

X---X---X---X--o

X-x-X---X-x-X--o

OovoOovoOovoOovo


Possibly off-topic, but I have a strange suspicion other loopers are into

patterns, and algorithmic _thinking_. In my mind the Lexicon Vortex is

definitely an audio fractal generator.


Cheers,

ynohtnA.

--

Anthony Bowyer-Lowe <<= The Essence Of Anthony.

http://www.amudarya.demon.co.uk/ (Updated: 01/98)


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 05:33:25 -0500

From: R & T Cummings <<R_T_Cummings@compuserve.com>

To: Loopers Delight <<Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>

Subject: Re: Steve Reich, phase changes etc.

Message-ID: <<199801270534_MC2-30C8-5F91@compuserve.com>

Content-Type: text/plain

Content-Disposition: inline


There is a cool way of doing this (gradual phase changes) with a drum 

machine and a looper. 

Connect the drum machine to the looper and MIDI sync them together with

the drum machine being the master. Record a loop of the drum machine 

groove and keep the drum machine groove on. Next there are two ways of

hearing a gradual phase change:


1) Disconnect the MIDI sync and one of the two machines will inevitable 

speed up or slow down

2) Disconnect the MIDI and increase or decrease the drum machine tempo 

by a very small amount (e.g. from 90 to 91 or whatever)


Last of all, sit back and listen to the phase changes - hate to admit it

but I've 

done this for hours - automatic minimal music!


BTW, this is more or less based on the technique used by Reich on the 

_It's Gonna Rain_


Talk to ya later, Rob



Jeff Duke Sr. wrote:

>Hey ya'll,

>R&T, or anybody, could you explain what gradual changes in phase means,I

am

>going to look for Reich.It sounds cool and I have been wanting to do some

>looping with real and analog drums.

>thanks much,Jeff


>R & T Cummings wrote:


>> Some interesting ideas with the minimal music approaches, I think.

>> One of favorite pieces is Steve Reich's _Drumming_ which at

>> 1 1/2 hours length involves "changes of phase position, pitch and

>> timbre" (liner notes). In this piece they start on tuned bongos and

>> gradually introduce voice, marimbas and glockenspiels while all

>> basically using the same rhythmic figure (with gradual changes of

>> relative phase). Another approach that he used on some pieces (e.g. _Six

>> Pianos), was changing phase in discrete steps of eigths etc. combined

>> with addition/ subtraction/ replacement of notes.


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 06:28:23 +0200

From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith)

To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com

Subject: Re: looper meeting at NAMM

Message-Id: <<v01520d00b0f3127b47a9@[205.177.96.45]>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


>Hey those of you going to NAMM,

>

>how bout we try to get together for a little Looper Convention/Lunch at the

>show? I'll propose a time:

>


Hey Kim,


  Great idea. The boys from Fingerpaint would love to meet up with

everyone, but alas the realities of day jobs on the East Coast makes that

not very probable. Have a great time and let us know what's out there.


Patrick



 ***  ***    ** Fingerpaint http://www.his.com/~patrick/FNGP.html  ***  **


  


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:00:44 -0600

From: Tom Spaulding <<tspauldi@gibson.com>

To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com

Subject: Re: looper meeting at NAMM

Message-Id: <<98Jan27.095809cst.26881@gateway.gibson.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


Kim and NAMMers-


Oberheim will be in Room 402 or 401 on the 2nd floor in the Gibson room.

All are welcome, and I'm sure there will be tasty NAMM hotdogs (aka

Sliders) nearby! 


Tom




At 01:05 AM 1/27/98 -0600, you wrote:

>Hey those of you going to NAMM,

>

>how bout we try to get together for a little Looper Convention/Lunch at the

>show? I'll propose a time:

>

>saturday (jan 31), 1:00pm

>at the Oberheim booth, for lack of a better idea. Hopefully there is a

>place with edible food somewhere nearby.

>

>see you then.....

>

>kim

>

>______________________________________________________________________

>Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight

>kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html

>http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com

>

>

>

>

>


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:09:30 -0800

From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle)

To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <<Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>,

        Mike.Biffle@wj.com

Subject: Re[2]: Lexicon not known for MIDI know-how?!?

Message-ID: <<0007F000.----@wj.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Content-Description: cc:Mail note part


It's been my experience that given the price point of the LXP series as well as 

the JamMan and Vortex, that you could 


1. Design the unit for maximum sound quality and provide a deviously simple but 

useful function set... then implement the most simple software and hardware 

possible.


2. Cut corners on sound quality and funcions available and place emphasis on 

flashy graphics and a more robust midi implementation.


I'm not sure I accurately describe or do justice to the two various approaches, 

but I'll say this. I'll take my Lexies over most of the other products out 

there. (An EDP would be nice parsley for my musical salad.)


Also... As you climb in price, Lexicon products become very full featured and 

capable as well as musically stunning!


Just my .02 dollars worth,

-Miko


>> erich kory wrote:"I can do this with the Jamman from Lexicon (a

>> company not known for it's MIDI know-how)."

>> 


Greg Hogan replied...

>        I am sorry erich but the Lexicon PCM70 was the first processor

>to give you complete control over all of its functions!  This feature

>has been included in most of our processors since.  I do not see how you

>can justify your statement!


>        Best regards,


>        Greg Hogan

>        Lexicon Customer Service

>        Phone +781-280-0372

>        FAX +781-280-0499


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 12:27:52 EST

From: Fmplautus <<Fmplautus@aol.com>

To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com

Subject: The LoOpDoctOrs suggest worthy Looping device candidates

Message-ID: <<9439f366.34ce1919@aol.com>

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit


Dear Loopers:


We saw the group Oregon last night.  We are in awe.


One thing, they could all use a really great looper to expand some sonic

possibilities.  Has any company ever thought about just sending them something

interesting in the mail?  We know where they are for the next two weeks.  


Best,

the LoOpDoctOrs


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 12:36:25 EST

From: ENAT21213 <<ENAT21213@aol.com>

To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com

Subject: Re: ANYONE KNOW THE MIDI PEDAL SCHEME FOR THE ECHOPLEX?

Message-ID: <<2535b7f1.34ce1b1a@aol.com>

Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit


In a message dated 98-01-27 05:22:02 EST, you write:


<<<< I'd really like to encourage you to try the way the echoplex interface does

 work, first. The tapping "problem" really isn't a problem at all when you

 are familiar with how it works. >>


Kim,

I will definitely try the echoplex out on my next trip to Atlanta.

Thanks for your time,

Brian McKenzie


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 12:11:39 -0600

From: Tom Spaulding <<tspauldi@gibson.com>

To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com

Subject: Re: The LoOpDoctOrs suggest worthy Looping device candidates

Message-Id: <<98Jan27.120900cst.26881@gateway.gibson.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


Rx of Loop-


Can't afford to be giving away the Loop John B, but an old spicy word in

the ear of an Oregon-o to call me in Nashville at 800-777-0795 ext. 527

would be appreciated. 


Tom "On my way again to Gomorrahritaville, lookin' for my pillar of salt"

Spaulding



At 11:27 AM 1/27/98 -0600, you wrote:

>Dear Loopers:

>

>We saw the group Oregon last night.  We are in awe.

>

>One thing, they could all use a really great looper to expand some sonic

>possibilities.  Has any company ever thought about just sending them

something

>interesting in the mail?  We know where they are for the next two weeks.  

>

>Best,

>the LoOpDoctOrs

>

>

>


Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:48:04 -0500

From: Jeff Schwartz <<jeffs@bgnet.bgsu.edu>

To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com

Subject: craft project

Message-ID: <<34CE2BE4.5F7C@bgnet.bgsu.edu>


Hey kids,

If you're like me, you have a big swarm of strange cables 

running from your pedalboard to your rack. I don't mean 

the usual pedalboard action where the signal goes in one 

end and out the other, but the kind where you have 

footswitches and controllers for a bunch of rack gizmos.

For example, I have three footswitches and a pedal for my 

Jamster & Vortex (side note-how long do you think it'll be 

before these suckers go up so much in price that I'll be 

afraid to take 'em to the gig, like a flametop Les Paul?) 

and a footswitch for a ProCo R2DU (two Rats in a 1 rack 

space box), in other words, four 1/4" stereo cables and 1 

MIDI cable. I carry my crap around in a soft rack case, 

tossing the pedals and cables in the back, since all the 

devices are quite shallow. Needless to say, I had a 

considerable spaghetti problem.

So, I decided to build my own snake. After a variety of 

tape/twist-tie configurations failed, I got $.50 of fabric 

at Ben Franklin and spent an afternoon sewing and 

listening to Paul Bley albums. I made a tube 7.5'x 1.5" 

and threaded my cables through it. Presto-quick and tidy 

setup and teardown. 

I suppose this little invention won't catch on because 

it's getting easier and easier to get one big controller 

that can run all your stuff or one gadget that does 

everything and then some (G-Force? Eventide? Powerbook 

with MAX?), but I figured I'd share my Martha Stewart 

moment with y'all.

Oh yeah, under no circumstances read Mark Vail's Vintage 

Synthesizers book. It's worse than pornography. I was 

filled with an unstoppable violent lust for gear. 

Fortunately for my finances, the only used gear store in 

town is full of Samick guitars and Peavey amps cast off by 

frustrated post-grunge teenage boys... 

-- 

Jeff Schwartz

jeffs@bgnet.bgsu.edu

http://www.bgsu.edu/~jeffs/main.html


--------------------------------</x-rich>