------------------------------ Loopers-Delight-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 30 Today's Topics: Re: The new ebows [ "future perfect" ] Loopers Website [ "Siobhan Canty" ] Re: Loopers Website [ "future perfect" ] Re: desert island disk: Jesus Blood [ "nicomonguzzi" ] Re: Re: Re: Different EBows [ Texture444@aol.com ] Re: Location. [ Fmplautus@aol.com ] Re: Loopers Website [ Kim Flint ] Re: mackie? vs. soundcraft... [ "Scott Bullerwell" ] RE: TEST 29 Jan [ "Liebig, Steuart A." To: Subject: Re: The new ebows Message-ID: <11ea01bd3011$45162b60$a7f1ffd0@default> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I use one of the old Ebows, they are not metal, but chrome colored plastic. Mine has the 'turns itself off' feature...when it gets close to a string, or any piece of metal, it turns on...when you pull it away, it turns off. It works out fine, unless its laying around in your gig bag and it comes in contact with metal, turns itself on, and when you try to use it, the battery is dead. Fortunately, the Ebow folks sold these with the coolest leather case ever, complete with belt clip and tooled 'EBow' on the side. The case looks like it cost more than the device itself.Yes, the response is slow, but like I said, nothing you can't get used to. I kinda like this, although I must admit that I haven't tried any of the newer ones. And you can't beat the cool-o chrome color-easier for people to see and say 'what the hell is that??' Dave Eichenberger ********************************************************************* 'Future Perfect' - progressive art music - visit our website at: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/8082 >Anybody ever have on of the old, metal chassis Ebows? I just can't get >mine to sound as good a Daniel Ash's (it must be the gear, right? >Right?) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 14:35:11 -0500 From: "Siobhan Canty" To: "Loopers Delight" Subject: Loopers Website Message-Id: <19351216705599@cfpa.org> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone know of a reason why I would not be able to connect to the looper website recently? Up until a couple days ago, I had no problem viewing it, but for the last couple days, I get a "connot connect to server" message. And I get other websites just fine! TIA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:03:33 -0500 From: "future perfect" To: Subject: Re: Loopers Website Message-ID: <124801bd3015$a4bc6b20$a7f1ffd0@default> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Does anyone know of a reason why I would not be able to connect to the >looper website recently? Ive had the same problem... Dave Eichenberger ********************************************************************* 'Future Perfect' - progressive art music - visit our website at: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/8082 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 21:05:02 +0100 From: "nicomonguzzi" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: desert island disk: Jesus Blood Never Failed Me Yet Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Can you please give me the name of the piece of John Dowland you're talking about ? thanks nicos >I suppose I am stretching the definition of looping to an extreme here, >but the repetition of a musical figure or harmonic progression is a >standard device in classical, if not orchestral music. Think of Bach's >Chaconne in D minor, Pachelbel's Canon, Ravel's Bolero etc. There is a >piece for solo lute by John Dowland (ca 1600) which consists of a repeated >descending chromatic scale around which he weaves various harmonic and >melodic threads. If only he'd had a JamMan.... > >Peter Thompson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 14:10:50 -0500 (EST) From: CORROSIVE@aol.com To: dwhite@arbortext.com, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Re: Location. Message-ID: <980202141050_-962713431@mrin54> I agree that it would be way cool to find other loopers in the same town to interact with... I'm in Portland, OR- anybody else here? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 15:28:44 -0500 From: Jeff Duke To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Loopers Website Message-ID: <34D62C7C.2D3ED31B@bellsouth.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am also having the same prob.No answers. jeff Siobhan Canty wrote: > Does anyone know of a reason why I would not be able to connect to the > looper website recently? Up until a couple days ago, I had no problem > viewing it, but for the last couple days, I get a "connot connect to > server" message. And I get other websites just fine! TIA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:21:19 EST From: Texture444@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Re: Re: Different EBows Message-ID: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit once upon a time, steinberger sound (via gibson corp's mgmt & dough) funded the building of a prototype guitar (by bob wolstein) w/selectably polyphonic, in-built string drivers (ie, "e-bows"). (an additional groovic feature that was worked on was the ability to sweep through the natural harmonic series, w/a knobule.) me & henry kaiser (& david lindley, methinks) shared this steinberger guitar for a while; i had it for about 5 or 6 months. it was a little clunky (used an outboard power-thingy & attaching cable), but: it rocked!, and had enormous potential..... i used it on the eponymous "mark isham" recording for virgin (which won a grammy, in 1990?), and on the film score for columbia pictures' "the beast". anyway: insofar as i know (& much to ned steinberger's great chagrin), mr. henry j. @ gibson stopped the project before completion; i believe that after a year transpired, ownership rights were supposed to revert to the estimable mr. wolstein. just a l'il tale, for ya's..... best, david torn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:54:36 EST From: Fmplautus@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Location. Message-ID: <313e3577.34d6328e@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The LoOpDoctOrs practice their medicine, including "loopendectomies" in Ashland, Oregon. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 12:49:51 -0800 From: Kim Flint To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Loopers Website Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980202204951.009b3328@pop.chromatic.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" My ISP is looking into the problem, hopefully it will be back up in a couple of hours. thanks for letting me know. (although, for future reference, it's usually a lot faster to alert me to such problems by emailing me directly at kflint@annihilist.com) kim At 03:28 PM 2/2/98 -0500, Jeff Duke wrote: >I am also having the same prob.No answers. >jeff > >Siobhan Canty wrote: > >> Does anyone know of a reason why I would not be able to connect to the >> looper website recently? Up until a couple days ago, I had no problem >> viewing it, but for the last couple days, I get a "connot connect to >> server" message. And I get other websites just fine! TIA > > > > > > _______________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Mpact Systems Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 14:09:15 -0700 From: "Scott Bullerwell" To: Subject: Re: mackie? vs. soundcraft... Message-Id: <199802022114.OAA02379@hyper.dimensional.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Doug wrote: > This sounds like a great deal, and I've never had a problem with > Behringer's product. I DO have a problem with their politics. For > Behringer, R&D seems to stand for Reverse-engineer and Deviate (just enough > so they can't get sued for stealing their desings) > > The units are prototyped in Germany, and the production cycle is fine > tuned. Then, Behringer engineers detool in Germany and tool up at plants > in Asia where they can pay SKILLED solders (as your experience would > support) and assembly workers a few cents an hour. > > Before I get on my Kathy Lee soap box, if this is the American way of doing > business, count me out. Their products hit great price points. (Their > version of the Ramsa 31 band EQ is great, (beautiful soft interface) and is > dirt cheap, but I'd rather save myself the bad karma). Just thought that > you ought to know. Agreed. I mentioned this before when someone asked for a reccomendation on a compressor. I don't pretend to be up on the human rights in China issue (certainly the military--under the trade name Norinco--does run most manufacturing) but the story on Behringer's engineering chickanery is long and dirty. They've been sued (successfully) by Aphex for copping the exciter's circuitry, and by Mackie for stealing circuit board designs. In the Mackie case, I have heard that the clincher was that the Behringer had a printed circuit board on it with an error that was identical to the error on the Mackie board in question. Oops. Now Behringer's been accused of copying the capsule from (if I remember correctly) the Neumann microphone. However, if I place the art vs. ethics consideration aside for a moment I'm sorely tempted to buy myself a Behringer 2642. As for politics--Greg Mackie is a Deadhead, something I find morally repugnant ;-) but I'd still consider buying his products. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 13:08:45 -0800 From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) To: "'David Myers'" , Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, David Kirkdorffer Subject: Process vs. Theory- was, Who's on the forefront of loopmuse Message-ID: <00084B1A.----@wj.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part David Kirkdorffer wrote... >I think in the contemporary art world, a great deal of the value >conferred to a "piece" is derived from it's "moving forward" or >expanding an idea beyond a previous state -- puns, meanings and >craftsmanship aside. Interesting comment David. When my wife was in the MFA graduate program at CCAC (California College of Arts and Crafts in Oakland, CA.) There was often this debate over Theory and continuous dialog (often just one upmanship) versus "Process" and being true to process. >So, in that context, David Myers' complaints that Fripp's "new" >soundscapes aren't all that new, nor are they really "moving forward" >the greater looping "oeuvre" are quite valid. >Granted, that may not be Fripp's Aim. While I guess confined to a >Fripp-y world, Soundscapes, or as they are recently termed, Space Music, Space Music!!!!??? We were calling our improvs Space Music in 1971!! Boy that really does break gound! (I mean wind.) 8-> >probably *are* an expansion of the Frippertronic idea. That said, I >think Fripp's concerns while he is playing his loop-based music are more >to do with the Process (of improvisation and surprises) and the Setting >(breaking up the audience / artist separation), than any concerns with >"art." My take on it regarding Fripp is this... Robert Fripp has been described by people like Bowie and Sylvian as working "very fast" and not being all that concerned with lots of takes and polishing the piece, etc. He likes to live with the results of his first or true reactions to a given musical moment. His ongoing experiments with his solo work seem to involve this "set and setting" sort of process. That being an interactive relationship with equipment, personal being, environment and audience. Not necessarily the best location to devolop a theory oriented "thesis" type of quantum leap in thought and execution. I don't believe any of his lectures and early stage exits are performance art oriented. They are practical measures he uses only to illustrate better what he's trying to accomplish. As much as I dislike his lectures to the audience, I do tend to agree with his process. He's probably taken so much crap from people that he's more stubborn in his formalistic way than ever. And I'm not sure I can blame him for that. It seems that process oriented work involves a lot of trust and a belief that you will learn and grow as much from disastrous outcomes as well as successes in the "process". Nothing is a finished piece in that they all represent only a moment in time. Next time around... Who knows? Does a process oriented approach keep you more humble? and about art? >Seems to me that's more Eno's territory. Sounds good to me... Although I've heard Eno and others describe some of his studio behavior, and he still sounds fairly process oriented. >*So, just for giggles, it raises the question, what / who is on the >forefront of "looping-based music"?* >David Kirkdorffer Good question! I better get my VISA out and buy a few more CD's! I live in a pretty tight vacuum at the moment. David Myers earlier comments... >>Robert at the Bottom Line Saturday night; saw the early show. I >>don't think even the people at TC Electronic or Eventide would have >>been pleased--this is all that can be done with 20 grand worth of >>gear? I kept wanting to shout, "OK, Bob, now HIT IT!". (Wouldn't have been >>out of place: LOTS of people were shouting.) It was like he was >>waiting for the right moment to break loose, but never did and never intended >>to--or didn't know how. I well realize that when you make a goof in a looping >>situation you are in deep trouble, but his timidity was appalling; 5 >>minutes of what we heard would have been impressive, but he more or less just >>let it limp along for two hours. >>I love everything Crimson has done, and the "Let The Power >>Fall"-type Frippertronics are kind of minimalist masterpieces, but listen >>to what somebody like Paul Dresher did on "Liquid and Stellar Music" >>many years ago and you begin to see that Fripp really doesn't have much to >>offer. Nor do I sense that he is even aware of Dresher, Terry Riley, etc.--or >>perhaps any work outside rock or the rock fringe. It seems that he believes >>he's doing something unprecedented. What he's doing that IS different is >>presenting a rather inept sort of ambient music to crowds which are largely >>unfamiliar with even Eno's "Discreet Music" (which this show was uncannily >>reminicent of), and pissing them off. I think 90% of this crowd expected >>"Red", and if I were one of them I'd be screaming, too. But I think this >>is part of what Robert wants to do: mess with people. He will call it >>"inviting them to expand their horizons" or some such thing, but it seems to >>me that it's mostly just self-indulgence. >>Yeah, the inevitable flashbulb went off--and so did Bob. He returned, >>butwithout the promised "Q & A" period afterward. I would have asked, "can wego >>now?". >>-David Myers Wow David... I'll bet you're in for a roast! I saw Fripp waaayyyy back at Madame Wongs on his first Frippertronics tour (1976 or so?) when he was carting around a couple of Revoxes. After an incredibly long wait outside, we were the treated to a long lecture about audience responsibility and his particular rules about tape recorders and cameras etc. I saw about 1/2 hour of that and left. He did more to spoil the magic of hearing his music than any flashbulb might have. I truly was looking forward to seeing him, and went away disturbed that the event was so entirely uncomfortable. Not in any mind-stretching avante-garde way, but just physically and mentally overbearing. In more recent Soundscapes concerts, as impressive as I think they are, I've often wished he'd just let it rip, if only for a moment or so. How about responsibility to your audience Robert? I'll meet you half way. Now I've done it. I'll see you in hell David Myers! -Miko ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 15:44:22 EST From: doina@juno.com (paparuda o o) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: location & Loopers' CD Message-ID: <19980202.154236.4951.0.DOINA@juno.com> >On Mon, 02 Feb 1998 00:48:57 Mark Sottilaro writes: >Do you think we could all give an email with a location? >That way we could all get an idea of what kind >of dispersion there is among us. yeah! even more, i would actually like to meet other loopers; i don't know anyone around here. also, i'd like to listen to other loopers' music, to see how they use the tools (mine is a Plex). i'm sure someone ou'there uses some tricks that i never thought of. that's why i asked previously if anyone has a copy of the first Loopers' CD; to "compare" my use of the machine with other "advanced" users, to see if i'm doing justice to all the work Matthias, Kim and Eric have put into the Plex. 'cause i believe in the VALUE of "things" that is not measured in PRICE. ...and, why not, to "steal" some "tricks of the trade" from the masters. it's seems to me that most of the loopers are into "ambient" instrumental music. i think i'm just using loops to replace other voices in the choir and to create vocal compositions in which i do all the parts live. so, please, if you have a copy of the "loopers CD", or would like to share your (COPYRIGHT protected) looped music can you let me know? many thanks to David Myers for the Mohawk Memory info Paparuda in Hartford, Connecticut. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 12:55:25 -0800 From: Kim Flint To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, dwhite@arbortext.com, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Re: Location. Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980202205525.00a34c6c@pop.chromatic.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This is exactly the point of the "Loopers of the World" section of the Looper's Delight website. It contains profiles of people from all over the world, with descriptions of their styles, background, contact info, gear, etc. At this time, we are automating this section so it will be easy for people to add and modify their profiles. This should be done in a week or so, if you don't have your profile up there yet wait until the new page is ready. This is being set up Chris Chovit and Michael Peters, who have been amazing and brilliant in making it happen. Massive thanks to them! We'll announce the new version as soon as it's ready. In the mean time, feel free to browse the many profiles from other loopers. It's a great way to learn about some of the other people here. (well, you might have to wait a few hours until my ISP get's my domain name back online.....) kim At 02:10 PM 2/2/98 -0500, CORROSIVE@aol.com wrote: >I agree that it would be way cool to find other loopers in the same town to >interact with... I'm in Portland, OR- anybody else here? > > > _______________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Mpact Systems Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:12:55 -0600 From: "Liebig, Steuart A." To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: TEST 29 Jan Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD014CC15@migarexch01.maritz.com> > ---------- > From: David Myers > Reply To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Sent: Friday, January 30, 1998 10:18 PM > To: LiebigSA@maritz.com > Subject: TEST 29 Jan > > TEST 29 Jan > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 23:36:35 From: "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Re: Fernandes Sustainer Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980202233635.1a6721b2@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >><<>1) Is the Fernandes or any other sustainer available as a retro-fit? >>Yes, but Fernandez charge a wallet-smasking 272UK for it ($400)!!!>> >Interesting...I asked the guy at the Fernandes NAMM booth about retro-fits >and he said absolutely not, too complicated getting the thing set up >correctly and since it interacts with the bridge pickup, they couldn't >guarentee that it would work well with all other pickups. I've seen the kit, in a box, and it includes both the driver and the sensor (neck s/c and bridge h/b respectively). There's a used Fer. Sust. -equipped quitar for sale in a shop in Glasgow that has a replacement Seymour at the bridge, so it's not as if the system requires a particular unit... Michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:04:36 -0700 From: dtapia@unoco.edu (Douglas Tapia) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: To BEhringer or not to BEhringer Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" They've been sued (successfully) by Aphex for copping the >exciter's circuitry, and by Mackie for stealing circuit board designs. In >the Mackie case, I have heard that the clincher was that the Behringer had >a printed circuit board on it with an error that was identical to the error >on the Mackie board in question. Oops. Now Behringer's been accused of >copying the capsule from (if I remember correctly) the Neumann microphone. One thing I'll say for Behringer, they pick good stuff to copy, eh? >However, if I place the art vs. ethics consideration aside for a moment I'm >sorely tempted to buy myself a Behringer 2642. As for politics--Greg >Mackie is a Deadhead, something I find morally repugnant ;-) but I'd still >consider buying his products. This is true. I would never look down on somone for buying good Behringer products at good prices. These are personal decisions, and everyone must find his/her own path. It strikes me as funny that all of a sudden, Mackie has become another BIG company in a lawsuit pitted against someone infringing on their territory. (Remember when Mackie was the little upstart that was going to kick everyone's butts? They ARE corporate America now!) As for Greg's being a Deadhead, I am inclined to agree with you, but if we refused to by technology from former associates of the Dead we'd have no Meyer, no Alembic, no Gamble consoles, no Crown derivitive mics. . . Guess The Dead were kinda like the Microsoft of the Music biz. We all use products pioneered in their ranks, but we don't like to be reminded of that fact very often. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 16:18:47 -0600 From: "Mikell D. Nelson" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Any Hot News? / where was Boomerang? Message-ID: <34D64647.56@dmans.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kim Flint wrote: > > Well, I didn't see Boomerang at the show. I was all over it, and they're > not in the directory, so presumably they weren't there. Motley? Where were > you? I didn't see them last year, either. The two Texas Rangsters are alive and well; business is booming, no pun intended. But... we haven't been to NAMM since 1996. We attended that year and spent a lot of money and energy with very little to show for it, so the bitter taste is still in our mouth. One acquaintance mentioned the 3 year plan: year 1 - they notice you, year 2 - they are reassured that you are still in business, and year 3 - they think maybe you're on to something and a buy a few units. Maybe this is how it goes. :^} Does anybody in the biz have opinions about the summer NAMM show in Nashville? Is it not worth going because it's small and poorly attended or is it better for the small guy, especially accessories, because it's focused and you can have more of each store owner's time? Motley at Boomerang Musical Products ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 17:24:34 -0500 From: buzzard@world.std.com (Sean T Barrett) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: vortex woes Message-Id: <199802022224.AA17239@world.std.com> VORTEX SPECIFIC! This is not the loop email you're looking for. Move along. Greg Hogan wrote: >It seems like your machine is confused. Try resetting it as >follows:Warning! This will erase user registers and replace them with >the presets. Thanks, Greg. It was worth a shot. Actually, before I did this, I did a little further investigation than before, and found that things were not as bad as I had thought. Whereas I had thought that all A->B copies were bad (based on 2 out of 2 samples), further investigation showed that it seems to be limited to certain patches. Resetting it did not, however, fix the problem. If someone else with a Vortex wants to check if this is a general Vortex bug, not specific to my machine, that would be cool. (Either one seems plausible at the moment.) The most consistent behavior is as follows: Turn the volume down on whatever the Vortex is feeding Copy PRESET 14A to register 14B (you'll destroy your 14B... you could try a different register of course, but it _seems_ like it has to be to a B register) Turn the knob away and back to 14 (leaving B selected). At least nine times out of ten that produces continuous high-volume noise (self-oscillation?) on my Vortex. Sean Barrett ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 16:27:20 -0600 From: "Mikell D. Nelson" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: zoom effects units/vocoding Message-ID: <34D64848.6E46@dmans.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Anyone ever combined looping with vocoding? I'm wondering what would > happen if you vocoded a loop with itself, somehow.... > Os, You sick pig, you! What a cool thought. I don't have a vocoder. Someone please try this and give a report. Motley ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 14:22:17 -0800 (PST) From: Paolo Valladolid To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Re: Re: Different EBows Message-Id: <199802022222.OAA10883@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > once upon a time, steinberger sound (via gibson corp's mgmt & dough) funded > the building of a prototype guitar (by bob wolstein) w/selectably polyphonic, > in-built string drivers (ie, "e-bows"). > (an additional groovic feature that was worked on was the ability to sweep > through the natural harmonic series, w/a knobule.) > me & henry kaiser (& david lindley, methinks) shared this steinberger guitar > for a while; i had it for about 5 or 6 months. > it was a little clunky (used an outboard power-thingy & attaching cable), but: > it rocked!, and had enormous potential..... Was this guitar the realization of your "idea" mentioned in a 1987 Electronic Musician article? You said you had an idea involving a hex pickup and a way to get synthesized sounds without the inconveniences of pitch-to-MIDI tracking, but that you couldn't talk about it at the time. Or was your idea more along the lines of what is embodied today in the Roland VG-8 (a hexaphonic digital signal processor) ? If you can't respond, that's cool too. I'm just curious. Cheers, Paolo Valladolid --------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ---------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------