------------------------------ Loopers-Delight-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 7 Today's Topics: Re: CD recorders [ Adam Levin ] Re: CD recorders? MDS, DATs, or blac [ james rhodes ] Re: CD recorders [ "Stephen P. Goodman" ] Re: Data compression, twitch factors [ Adam Levin ] Re: CD recorders...MD too?? [ Andre Cholmodeley ] Re: Re: Data compression, twitch fac [ Fmplautus ] Re: MicroSynth [ matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias ] Re: CD recorders...MD too?? [ matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias ] freedom, syncing and quantization [ matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias ] Re: New Echoplex Pro owner [ Sean Echevarria ] Re: MicroSynth [ "Scott Bullerwell" ] Re: Data compression, twitch factors [ Jonathan Brainin ] Dimension Beam [ Paolo Valladolid To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: CD recorders Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Jason Secord wrote: > On a brighter note, I have heard good rumors concerning (of all things) > an OLYMPUS CD-RW (if I heard'em right) that wholesales at about 500 > bones. That's probably old information to all of you, but a guy's got > to contribute to the cause, ya know? I forgot to mention this yesterday, but the CD-RW drive I'm using is a Maxell which cost $299 at Best Buy. It's not a stand alone unit though, it plugs into the standard IDE hard disk controller on a PC (no SCSI needed). -Adam --- "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue, out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one becomes a Hearer." - Chandrakirti ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 07:11:16 From: james rhodes To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: CD recorders? MDS, DATs, or black virgin vinyl Message-Id: <3.0.2.16.19980115071116.2fe72f28@texas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" hello guys, i chose a CDRW (stand alone unit CDR870)because the Audio CD is a standard worldwide format,,i burn all of my recordings live anyway,,,so my tascam 4 track, really usually functions as a "live to 2 track" device...MDs are great especially when it comes to the edit process,,,DATs are outstanding,,,but most people i know dont have one... for MY needs the CD recorder allows my music to be heard by more listeners..but i would make music no matter what,,,DO THE BEST WITH WHAT YOU HAVE,,,,its more about music and less about gear anyway. afterall i prefer black virgin vinyl,,,and a diamond stylus 10011100000101110000110110101010101010101000001111010100011101010101010 analog james ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:52:22 -0800 From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: Re: CD recorders Message-ID: <004001bd21e6$b77c1900$7b22dacf@sgoodman> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adam Levin chimed in with: >I forgot to mention this yesterday, but the CD-RW drive I'm using is a >Maxell which cost $299 at Best Buy. It's not a stand alone unit though, it >plugs into the standard IDE hard disk controller on a PC (no SCSI needed). Do let us know how you're using it! At the least I'd want to have one just to make masters and backups. After using streaming tape for so long it's not a problem to have to reinitialize the media, IMHO. I consider that a very reasonable trade-off for being able to burn CDs. Stephen Goodman * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios EarthLight Productions * Get the Loop Of The Week Free! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 07:18:07 From: james rhodes To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: New Echoplex Pro owner Message-Id: <3.0.2.16.19980115071807.26d75a3c@texas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 07:14:27 >To: tomroady@telalink.net >From: james rhodes >Subject: Re: New Echoplex Pro owner >In-Reply-To: <34BE329E.6FC1@telalink.net> > >hi Tom, welcome > >you have come to the right place,,alot of sharp people on this list >learn something everyday... > >enjoy >james rhodes > > > >At 11:00 AM 1/15/98 -0500, you wrote: >>Hi, >> My name is Tom Roady. I am a studio percussionist in Nashville Tn. >>I just picked up an Echoplex Pro at Gibson here yesterday. Tom Spalding >>at Oberheim hipped me to your page. He had nothing but praise for your >>webbsite. He said I should definitely check it out and here I am. >> I play drums and percussion with Chet Atkins also and I am the >>Clinician for the ZENDRUM Corp. I have been using a JAMMAN for 2 years >>to do clinics and live solo Zendrum gigs. I am very anxious to get into >>the Echoplex. Looking forward to hearing back. Tom Roady >> >> >> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:25:52 -0500 (EST) From: Adam Levin To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Data compression, twitch factors, knee jerks and God Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, Fmplautus wrote: > < of data compression, but I think that a lot of that is people listening > to the spec sheet instead of with their ears. > >> > > The LoOpDoctOrs don't agree...we listen with our ears and we hear that hard > disc recording kills what we can afford for analogue and we love the freedom > allowed by our computer. > > However, we find it alarming that manufacturers will play God with recorded > human history. And we have been around recording long enough to remember > "perfect sound forever," the initial hype when Phillips/Sony introduced > digital. It turned out to be far from perfect and the forever part only > applies to the painful aural butchery that that was made immortal in early > digital recordings. > > In short, we trust our ears and nobody's spec sheets. And we are HIGHLY > suspicious of faux scientific explanations as to why we should accept "less" > as "more." That includes marketing/compression schemes. Bang for the buck is > one thing, but don't tell our ears they're related to jerky knees. The > "twitch factor" for marketing types with profit line incentives is much higher > then the > "knee jerk" factor in musicians. > Umm, so are the Loop Doctors saying that they actually hear a degradation in sound from the compression schemes used in MiniDisc recording? -Adam --- "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue, out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one becomes a Hearer." - Chandrakirti ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:12:37 -0500 From: Andre Cholmodeley To: Subject: Re: CD recorders...MD too?? Message-Id: <199801152012.PAA16227@shell.monmouth.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit thanks for more info, travis... can the 4 track MD's be used fresh or played , once recorded, on the 2 track MD machine?? If so, wht do you hear, tracks 1 and 2, like a 4track cassette in a reg. cassette deck?? andre' ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:39:16 -0700 From: Jim Coker To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: CD recorders Message-ID: <34BE73F4.456C16E2@magelang.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Something you might want to keep in mind is the cost of CD-RW blanks, which I think are $10 or more, whereas you can get blank CD-Rs for $2.50 in qty of 50 or more (with a jewel box). I got a Sony 2x recorder from APS (w/ Toast) for $400 a couple months ago and it works great. Jim Adam Levin wrote: > On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Jason Secord wrote: > > > On a brighter note, I have heard good rumors concerning (of all things) > > an OLYMPUS CD-RW (if I heard'em right) that wholesales at about 500 > > bones. That's probably old information to all of you, but a guy's got > > to contribute to the cause, ya know? > > I forgot to mention this yesterday, but the CD-RW drive I'm using is a > Maxell which cost $299 at Best Buy. It's not a stand alone unit though, it > plugs into the standard IDE hard disk controller on a PC (no SCSI needed). > > -Adam > > --- > "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue, > out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one > becomes a Hearer." > - Chandrakirti ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:53:30 EST From: Fmplautus To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Re: Data compression, twitch factors, knee jerks and God Message-ID: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Adam: The LoOpDoctOrs haven't heard the mini-disc recording, but we are most certain that every pair of ears on the planet will hear it's recorded results a little differently. We do believe that technology should serve human creativity, and not visa versa. If the mini-disc, hard drive, DAT or CD-R is a viable tool for a musicians artistic end, then good for him or her, but what is one person's so called "knee jerk" reaction to a recording format, maybe an incontrovertable aesthetic point for another. Another way of looking at this -- some artists sculpt in pig iron, others in bronze. Kodachome has different "reality" points to make then fresco and camel hair. Similarly scratching turntables has different noise characteristics then the samples out of our synths. One ain't better then the other or worse because an engineer tells us so, and we have repeatedly seen so called "flaws" in instruments/amplifiers/recording devices, etc. later hailed as "the real deal." As a general artistic credo, the LoOpDoctOrs like to think that the accidents are more interesting then the plans, the boundaries ARE the horizons, and tape hiss and digital clipping might be two very interesting aural toys to play with. Here's a question. A few years down the road could a musical aesthetic (read movement) rise up around those darned hissy four track cassette tape decks some are about to trash for the latest and the greatest? We're standing by. In short, your recording medium IS a musical instrument, and it brings with it inherent creative vistas and limitations. Exploring that tension is the fun part. Best, the LoOpDoctOrs ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:15:35 -0300 From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: MicroSynth Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Someone gave me one that does not work. If its value is high, it might motivate me to fix it. How much is the offer for a perfectly working one? Matthias ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:30:48 -0300 From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: CD recorders...MD too?? Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Many people seem to have developed a knee-jerk reaction to the presence >of data compression, but I think that a lot of that is people listening >to the spec sheet instead of with their ears. The problem with the compression only starts if you process the sound later because you escape from the save characteristics of the compression. I remember its developper admiting it at an AES Speach. So use it for recording final results only. Matthias ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:15:35 -0300 From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: freedom, syncing and quantization Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Kim said a while ago: >The issue of rhythmic freedom vs. various degrees of synchronization is a >fundamental problem with multiple loops, I think. The effort involved in >making these features musically useful on the echoplex was huge, but worth >it. Basically, you have to give the musician the option to choose. And the >musician should be able to make the decision on the fly, with a minimal >amount of setup. Some musicians (like Matthias) do not want any >synchronization, insisting that they always be free to tap the lengths >wherever they please. And some, (like me sometimes) want precise >synchronization, allowing for polyrhythmic relationships. And most times, >different types of music and different situations just call for one or the >other. Tough challenge for the designer! Definitally. I see at least three different levels, interesting for users that might not be aware of: Free: Everything happens exactly when you hit the button. Rounded: Everything starts exactly when you hit, but stops, when the timing is in some relation to the existing material, so the loop continues consistently. Quantized: Everything happens at a predefined moment, like the end of the loop, or at a sync signal coming. This means that operation has to be antecipated. The first level I imagined sutable for totaly free music. Its the easiest to program. My personal preference is the second. I cannot stand to wait for some quantization mark that might not coincide with my perception of the loop I am listening too. But I want to stay in the rhythm of a previous loop in case I create a bigger one around it or with a brother in case of playing together. The biggest effort was to allow a somewhat late operation with round-down. This allows the user to hit on the spot in his perception and any human inacuracy is corrected. The unit then has to correct all that happened and reconstruct as if the user had really hit on the spot. All the Undos of the function are done on this base, and were the most complicated to program: To stay in time but let it happen immediately means to figure out where we would be in the loop if the user would not have called the function he undoes now and immediately jump there. In the LOOP delay those Undos where resolved on the quantize base, which is much simpler. In the next upgrade, SyncRecording (a Record to a external MIDI or Brother tempo) will be available rounded, not just quantized as now. Much handyer, I think. Does anyone use the Quantize feature of the Plex? (I understood there is a equivalent on the JamMan with a name I do not remember) I guess Q level it mainly interesting to work in planned "organized" music, where you treat bars and measures. There could be several Q levels, like referenced to loop end or cycle end or beat... Anyone... ? Matthias ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:47:00 -0800 From: Sean Echevarria To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: New Echoplex Pro owner Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980115114700.00941aa0@global.california.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Yeah, Butt don'''''''''t let the pee-------------ple that youse lots of weerd punctu-aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-shun (((and spullen))) throw you!!!!!!!!! > > Or,,,, them thar looperz that respond inside of what looks > like quoted text,,,,,,,,,,, > We,We,We,Wel---------come abooooooooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaard > :) At 07:18 AM 1/15/98, a looper wrote: >> >>you have come to the right place,,alot of sharp people on this list >>learn something everyday... >> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 19:03:08 EST From: CORROSIVE To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Re: MicroSynth Message-ID: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Matthias- are U talking about the Electro-Harmonix microsynth? I saw one listed in Jan issue of Vintage guitar magazine for $650, but they usually go for around $450...for some reason the bass microsynth seems to go for a bit more, ya got me why ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:07:09 -0700 From: "Scott Bullerwell" To: Subject: Re: MicroSynth Message-Id: <199801152212.PAA32461@hyper.dimensional.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Matthias Grob said: > Someone gave me one that does not work. If its value is high, it might > motivate me to fix it. > > How much is the offer for a perfectly working one? > > Matthias > I just gave a partially-working one to former listmember Russ Gorton (which I bought new in 1981 for about $200). The street price in the US is as much as $600 per--Bog knows why. Apart from some groovy envelope filtering, it's basically a crappy octaver and crappy fuzz with a noisy footswitch. Scott Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:54:25 -0500 From: Andre Cholmodeley To: Subject: Re: Data compression, twitch factors, knee jerks and God Message-Id: <199801152054.PAA04510@shell.monmouth.com> > >> > > The LoOpDoctOrs don't agree...we listen with our ears and we hear that hard > disc recording kills what we can afford for analogue and we love the freedom > allowed by our computer. .... In short, we trust our ears and nobody's spec sheets. And we are HIGHLY > suspicious of faux scientific explanations as to why we should accept "less" > as "more." That includes marketing/compression schemes. Bang for the buck is > one thing, but don't tell our ears they're related to jerky knees. The > "twitch factor" for marketing types with profit line incentives is much higher > then the > "knee jerk" factor in musicians. and you're absolutely correct. but it's all about balance. i really think life is too short to worry about a few 1,000 khz of compresssion or inaudibility. very few people can blindfold test this stuff. I don't know about everyone esle - but i make music so someone will hear it, and like it or not, lo or hi tech, our music will be heard on boom boxes, bose wave radio, walkman crappy headphoes, car stereos of umpteen diff. quality levels.. etc. i 'm not trying to pick a fight in the least bit, but lets step back - if someone finds affordable gear for their current budget and it can trap their musical performance in time, that's all ya need. the recently departed Micheal Hedges, for all the warmth and beauty of his guiatr sound, used old analog tape machines, but also used digital stuff, synths and hard drive recording. now's he's gone, as we all will be, and should we get to that other side saying " i woulda recorded my masterpiece - but the specs were wrong" on the other extreme - again, you're correct, the corporations have, do, and will milk all these alternative for what they are worth and beyond. the trick is to catch what falls between the cracks, like the fisher-price "toy" video camera that now fetches hundreds, or the quickly discontinued casio cz 101, still a fave. i think MD may do a bit better, but is in that category as far as the big suits are concerned. use what works. andre ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:07:44 -0500 From: Andre Cholmodeley To: Subject: .MD rumored "problems" Message-Id: <199801152007.PAA14173@shell.monmouth.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I>>>>> heard that many people eventually encounter problems with MD which are related to dust which gets into the machine and especially into the media. (And apparently there is no MD cleaning disk available yet.) ANdre':well, yes , there IS an MD cleaning disc - saw one at least 2 weeks back at a big electronic supply store... about $15 - i haven't invested yet. i believe it's by JVC - but i'm sure they "all" have one..... how prevalent are the problems?? what's the percent?? i'd be concerned if i could verify that it was worse than the % of failed DATs, or skippy CDs, etc. I would suspect the % may be around that/ or better than the % failure rate of 3.5" comp. discs, since it's the same technology. the issue for me anyway - is a good live mastering medium - then i'll dump it to samoe format (CD, DAT) for mass duplication on CrO2 cassette and/or CD also- did you hear this problem about the regular MD or the MD DATA discs??? the latter are are the more expensive ($20-25) discs used in the MD four-track machines. ___________ peace, andre' ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 20:05:21 -0500 From: "future perfect" To: Subject: Re: Re: MicroSynth Message-ID: <046801bd221a$d2a402e0$60f1ffd0@default> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I used to own the E-H Guitar Synth, a 3- space rack mounted super-duper version of the Microsynth..I sold this for an embarrassingly small amount about 6 years ago. It was quite a horrific beast that made equally bizzaro noises. I think Steve Howe used one on the first ASIA album. Dave Eichenberger ********************************************************************* 'Future Perfect' - progressive art music - visit our website at: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/8082 >Matthias- are U talking about the Electro-Harmonix microsynth? I saw one >listed in Jan issue of Vintage guitar magazine for $650, but they usually go >for around $450...for some reason the bass microsynth seems to go for a bit >more, ya got me why > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:46:59 -0500 From: Jonathan Brainin To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Data compression, twitch factors, knee jerks and God Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980115204659.00683374@interactive.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:25 PM 1/15/98 -0500, you wrote: > >Umm, so are the Loop Doctors saying that they actually hear a degradation >in sound from the compression schemes used in MiniDisc recording? > >-Adam I'm not sure if that's what they were saying bit I say that in comparison to DAT or HDR, there is a discernable degradation in sound quality from a MiniDisc that I would attribute to the lossy compression schemes used by the format. I think the use is not all that important. MD, IMO is a "consumer" format with the usual sonic compromises inherent to most mass market consumer audio products. DAT and HDR are largely "professional" formats. But you use whatever tool you've got to make your music. I think we need to find a new topic. This is soon going to become a "analog vs. digital" or "pc vs. mac" type debate. Jonathan Brainin jbrainin@interactive.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 20:04:42 -0800 From: Kim Flint To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: freedom, syncing and quantization Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980116040442.00cc49b4@pop.chromatic.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 05:15 PM 1/15/98 -0300, Matthias Grob wrote: >Does anyone use the Quantize feature of the Plex? (I understood there is a >equivalent on the JamMan with a name I do not remember) >I guess Q level it mainly interesting to work in planned "organized" music, >where you treat bars and measures. I use the quantize function a lot these days. Originally I liked it because it helped me execute functions more accurately while playing guitar. I don't play guitar with loops so much these days (or much at all actually), I'm following some muse into more percussively oriented electronic dance music. It's organized in the sense that you are often concerned about maintaining a beat and keeping things aligned according to measure and section, which means a heavy use of midi clock for syncing. In my case the planned aspect mostly ends there, as I'm experimenting with taking a more improvised approach to it rather than sequencing every last millisecond. But I still want to keep the tempo and beat steady, and not have those things fly out of my control. For this, quantized loop functions are great. It's very easy to record things played in real time and get a loop sync'd with the sequence and aligned with the first beat of the pattern. Since I'm also manipulating the mixer or effects parameters, or triggering drum samples or something, it's incredibly handy to be able to press the record or multiply or whatever function when it is convenient, and know that it is going to come in exactly when it is supposed to. I can finish the function in the same way, by pressing when it is convenient, and the plex ends the function quantized to the end of the sequenced patterns. I can then go about manipulating this loop, effecting it, mixing it in and out, generally terrorizing it, but keeping it in time the way I want. As an example, I have the loopers on aux sends of the mixer, synced to midi clock from a sequencer. I like to take a loop of the drums and reverse it, mixing the reverse in and out with the original. First I start the sequence and then record a loop of its output, which is very convenient because everything is sync'd and quantized to the first beat of the pattern. I just hit record any time, and it starts at the right moment. I hit it again when I've got as much as I want, and it waits to end of the measure to end for me. Easy! The two are sync'd, aligned, running along next to each other. Then I hit reverse on the echoplex. The quantizing waits to the end of the measure before reversing the loop. So now the reversed drums are going, still sync'd to the original and aligned to the measures. Then I go nuts with the faders, bringing reversed drum hits in and out, using quick crossfades between the two, or whatever, creating a new pattern of reverse and forward drums. I might then use multiply to add some real-time playing to the loop, put it back forwards, and mix between the new loop and the old pattern. Or change patterns, or whatever. I'll use NextLoop to record several different loops like this, and it's all quantized and in time with the clock and lined up with other echoplexes and the sequencer. I can do quantized switches between all the loops, while mostly concentrating on the mixer, effects, and playing, and it all stays in time where I want it. There's tons of possibilities, and I'm only just beginning to explore it with a rather rudimentary setup. Without quantize I would never be able to execute the loop functions perfectly enough to keep it all together. With quantize it's a snap, and I can concentrate on doing other things while the looper does it's job on it's own. As a more advanced technique, I also like to set the echoplexes to time signatures different from the sequence and each other. Then I capture the drum pattern from the sequencer in different time signatures, and run it next to the original. So I might have the original in 4/4 and the loop in 13/8. Running them next to each other gives a constantly shifting rhythm pattern that can be very interesting. By controlling the mix you can easily change which one dominates, effectively morphing from one time signature to another. Quantize is again a life saver here, because I can execute loop functions without the beat getting out of whack. What's also interesting is the quantize point changes against the original sequence. It's still in time, just at a different beat each time through. So you can keep things evolving. so anyway, I'm a quantizing fan! now back to the boring work.... kim ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Mpact System Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:58:55 -0800 (PST) From: Paolo Valladolid To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Cc: stickwire-l@netcom.com Subject: Dimension Beam Message-Id: <199801160158.RAA19919@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How's this for a weird, new, yet cool MIDI controller: Dimension Beam http://www.interactivelight.com/db/ It generates an egg-shaped force field which senses movement and translates it to MIDI. Some famous users: Nick of Duran Duran - puts it atop his keyboard rack and activates it by leaning into the force field. Trey Gunn - Controls his effects parameters by moving in and out of the field, waving his headstock throught it, etc. while playing his Warr Guitar. Peter Gabriel - Uses it in his studio to bring in sounds literally out of the air, it being connected to his synths, samplers, etc. And I thought the Theremin was cool..... Cheers, Paolo Valladolid --------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ---------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------