Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:10:52 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: $500 for a Plex: Believe it >> >I can see that I really need an Echoplex. Now, who's got 'em for >> >$500, again? >> >> nobody dude. apply for a grant! > >*BZZZZZZT!* Survey says...: > >A grant shan't be necessary. Nadine's here in luvly SoCal has 'em at >that price. The address and phone # has been floating around the list >over the last week, so I'm sure someone out there can repost. (I can't >find the thing...) Manny's and Banana's at Large also have them pretty regularly. Don't know the numbers off hand, but I imagine both are on the web. Banana's is. Both of them have been selling echoplexes since the very beginning, and get this, Banana's sales people actually understand it! The store manager actually uses them! Even more: the former sales manager from Oberheim now works at bananas. Ask for Malcolm, and tell him I sent you. And tell him I said he would give you a special discount since you know me. That will make his day, no doubt! The other thing about echoplexes these days is that memory prices for them are dirt cheap. The 4meg simms are only $30! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:50:07 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Looping Setup >I'm not familiar (yet) with MIDI controllable eeffects, but I assume >that each controllable parameter is a different "channel" or >something, so that if you had enough controllers to mangle, you could >hack them all at oncee. > >Is this right? That's the idea. On each midi channel (16 of them), you have 127 continous controllers, each of which can adjust a value between 0 and 127. Usually a patch on a processor or synth can have any parameter assigned to a continuous controller, so you can adjust it in real time. >If so, this Peavey MIDI fader box I have over heree, which I bought >for controlling Deck, would be way cool. 16 faders with buttons, >"shuttle" dial, and a few other buttons, all of which I believe are >programmable. > > >Gee, I need to get one of these TSR-24s thingees and try it out. Most decent effects devices implement this feature to various degrees. If you want to try it, look at a variety of boxes. The peavey midi faders are probably pretty good. JL cooper also makes them. I imagine others do as well. Now for the adventurous, I encourage you to explore beyond the cheesy faders and footpedals. Check out the Buchla Thunder and Buchla Lightning. These instruments are designed and built by the enigmatic Don Buchla, who is considered to be the co-father of synthesizers as musical instruments, along with Bob Moog. Don is brilliant, and quite possibly one of the most visionary people to ever enter the craft of musical instrument design. Naturally the industry ignores him and no one buys any of his stuff. Doesn't help that he's more than a little unusual and difficult to work with, but share a bottle of wine (or 3 or 4, probably) with him and you won't regret it. Anyway, unlike Moog, who builds theremins somewhere in New York, Don is still creating the future. Distant future probably! Thunder is basically a control surface, with various areas that respond to the position, velocity, and pressure of the musician's fingers by sending out appropriate midi data. I've seen people using it for electronic and ambient music, and it was quite cool. I think this would be great for looping, since you can often stop playing your instrument once the loops are going and concentrate on effects and such. Having ten square feet of footpedals is somewhat less than convenient! But with a thunder, you could turn to this unusual looking device on a stand next to you, and start manipulating the sounds with deft motions of your fingers, playing the effects! Looks cool, and much more musically intuitive. Lightning is a pair of wands that transmit midi data based on their position and velocity in a space. The communicate with the main unit through infrared beams and sensors. Its sort of like playing percussion, but with invisible drums. You can program the space anyway you like, so you mighe have vibraphone in front of you, violin synth pads to your right, effects controllers up in the front, loop triggers to the left.... Don also makes intruments called Rain and Wind, which I don't really know much about since they are newer. I've heard they are quite amazing though. If you are interested Don has a web page at http://www.buchla.com/ I talked with David Torn about similar ideas once, about the need for loop devices to have interesting interfaces that are musically useful and are also interesting to watch for the audience. People get confused if they don't see you making motions that correspond to the sounds they hear, which is a problem for loopers. Various midi controllers out there can probably serve this purpose in interesting ways. I challenge you all to look into it.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 01:04:13 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Amplification >On Tue, 24 Sep 1996, Tom Attix* wrote: > >> > also, are there any amp designers/builders among us? >> > I'd spoken with matthias about this before. >> >> I've been poking the idea around. A nice all tube stereo amp (for my >> Stick). I suspect I'm going end up building something more like a PA than >> a guitar amp. Do you know of any good sources for schematics? >> >> -Tom Attix > >I'd say your choice of amps and speakers is highly dependent on the >manner in which you intend to present the music. Is this for a home >studio, or live playing? Since you're playing Stick, you're going to >need to hit some REALLY low bass notes. There are two ways to >approach this. One is to use a heavy-duty biamped system with big >subwoofers to capture those low fundamentals (a Stick tuned down to >low A produces a 27.5hz fundamental!) where typical speakers (especially >guitar speakers) crap out. Another is to just roll off that >fundamental octave and concentrate on a tight sound (this is why the >old Ampeg SVT bass amps with the 8 10" speakers sounded so great. >They rolled the fundamental right off, and just reproduced the first >order harmonic of the low notes. The amp and speakers weren't >overstressed and sounded much tighter). Very interesting post Dave. I agree, the cleaner the amplification of your loops, the better. I had a thought about amplifying a Stick, though. Might be obvious to stick players, I don't know. Charlie Hunter plays an eight string guitar with 3 bass strings and 5 guitar strings. He does a rather remarkable job of playing both at once, often getting bass melodies and chords all at once. That's not too amazing with a good guitarist, but he manages to really make it sound like he is two musicians. (Bass player and an Organ player oddly enough.) Part of the seperation comes from using seperate pickups and amplifiers for the bass and guitar strings on the instrument. So the bass side runs through a good bass amp, and the guitar through a rotary speaker effect and into a good guitar amp. Both are small and portable. Seems like tubes would be better for the higher strings on the stick, since a little bit of tube distortion would probably give a good sustain for them. Of course, this falls apart for looping, where you need something cleaner. Then you probably want something like Dave is suggesting. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 09:10:33 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Amplification On Wed, 25 Sep 1996, Kim Flint wrote: > Seems like tubes would be better for the higher strings on the stick, since > a little bit of tube distortion would probably give a good sustain for > them. > > Of course, this falls apart for looping, where you need something cleaner. > Then you probably want something like Dave is suggesting. Gotta love that tube sustain, huh? :} Actually, since the Stick already has split pickups for its two courses of strings, I'd use a SansAmp or something along those lines to get that electric guitar effect. That way, you can switch it in and out of your chain, like any other effect. Personally, I use a BBE 2+1 rackmount preamp (with BBE effect and speaker emulation), and a ProCo Rat II. Between them, I get a wide variety of clean and distorted sounds with no hassle at all. I probably get more use from the speaker emulator effect than the distortion, really. It takes that jangly, piercing edge off the guitar. It might be good for other instruments, too. Actually, guitar-like amp effects can be VERY useful for other instruments. One of the most amazing looping pieces I've ever heard was done by an old roommate of mine, running a shokohachi (Japanese flute) through my primitive Boss Delay/Boogie amp looping rig, and picking up reverberation feedback from the monitor speakers through his microphone. He was trying to get difference tones, and succeeded admirably. -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com */ -Charles Fort /* http://www.leepfrog.com/~dstagner */ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:44:20 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Amplification an others things The problem with the Stick (at least mine) is that the "melody" pick-up picks up the two first bass strings bass one picks up the three first melody strings. In case of applying different effects ont the two set of strings.... you get delay or distortion on the bass strings that muddy this nice chord you were doing on the melody strings. When looping with the melody strings, it is a problem. By the way i'm quite myself so much used to speaker emulator that i cannot stand real guitar amps anymore. I run in live in two KB300 peavey for stereo, fed with a mackie in wich you find diffrent preamp: Lag Spitfire for guitars and melody of the Stick and Peavay Rockmaster (Duh?) for bass strings of the Stick. I know it is weird but it has sound to hate with guitars but soounds nicely bright with bass strings of the Stick. I use every time to run a lot of Synth through guitar preamp, to get a grainy color. It is working very well with wind intruments. A flute with a real nicely imitated flute or a sample, controlled with guitar synth to add "realness" can fool people if passed through guitar pramps (i said people, yes?). Olivier To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: ToddM@LaserMaster.Com Date: 25 Sep 1996 10:45:41CST6CDT Subject: Plex Pricing This is the issue with the Plex for me - I really want one bad, but you have to pay to play. And I just bought a Vortex so it will be some months off. o I've seen Banana's pricing on their web page (about $598) o Haight Ashbury Music on their web page (about $549) o Nadine's supposedly will sell them for $500. o And Manny's also supposedly will sell for around $475. Nadine's and Manny's seems to be the most attractive pricings. I'll have to see if I can get in touch with them or find a catalog somewhere... I suppose I could do something rash like sell a guitar or a bunch of CDs to speed up the process, but I'd kick myself later. Saving the conventional way means months of scrimping since I'm a married guy and "being a responsible adult means paying bills before buying luxuries" -Guitar Sam. Maybe I should sell some of the old stomp- boxes I've had lying around doing nothing for a while? The Jam Man I've seen for about $350 - I'd rather have the 'Plex since it's got the expandability and more functions (not to mention more LIGHTS ON THE CONTROL PANEL - [what my friend Jim would say has a high KPD [knobs (lights) per dollar] factor] and has a much more substantial footswitch as well as more memory from the get go and uses standard SIMMs instead of ZIP ram. I've got an idea: but no idea how to implement it: maybe we should do a GROUP PURCHASE and get some kind of volume discount from some nice music store somewhere? Not only would we benefit, but the store would also benefit in moving an "esoteric" piece of equipment and maybe Oberheim would then award the store with "mover and shaker of the month" certificate or something like that. Todd Madson PressMate Product Specialist LaserMaster Big Color Technical Support Corporate Web Site: http://www.lasermaster.com/ Personal W3 Site: http://www.waste.org/~crash/index.html Personal e-mail: crash@waste.org From: pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu (Paolo Valladolid) Subject: Re: Amplification To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:06:15 -0700 (PDT) [Dave Stagner wrote] > >I'd say your choice of amps and speakers is highly dependent on the > >manner in which you intend to present the music. Is this for a home > >studio, or live playing? Since you're playing Stick, you're going to > >need to hit some REALLY low bass notes. There are two ways to > >approach this. One is to use a heavy-duty biamped system with big > >subwoofers to capture those low fundamentals (a Stick tuned down to > >low A produces a 27.5hz fundamental!) where typical speakers (especially > >guitar speakers) crap out. Another is to just roll off that > >fundamental octave and concentrate on a tight sound (this is why the > >old Ampeg SVT bass amps with the 8 10" speakers sounded so great. > >They rolled the fundamental right off, and just reproduced the first > >order harmonic of the low notes. The amp and speakers weren't > >overstressed and sounded much tighter). [Kim Flint] > Very interesting post Dave. I agree, the cleaner the amplification of your > loops, the better. I had a thought about amplifying a Stick, though. Might > be obvious to stick players, I don't know. > > Charlie Hunter plays an eight string guitar with 3 bass strings and 5 > guitar strings. He does a rather remarkable job of playing both at once, > often getting bass melodies and chords all at once. That's not too amazing > with a good guitarist, but he manages to really make it sound like he is > two musicians. (Bass player and an Organ player oddly enough.) Part of the > seperation comes from using seperate pickups and amplifiers for the bass > and guitar strings on the instrument. So the bass side runs through a good > bass amp, and the guitar through a rotary speaker effect and into a good > guitar amp. Both are small and portable. Given the choice between the considerable weight and expense of a subwoofer setup and a compact 2x10 type cabinet for the bass section of my Stick, I'd probably go with the 2x10 myself. I noted that Charlie Hunter uses an Eden 2x10 cabinet for his bass sound - it sounded nice and warm enough to me. However, the fact that the Stick also offers fairly high tuned strings on the "bass" side - well into the guitar range - presents an interesting problem for Stick players who like to play big chords using both sides of the Stick. Hence an interest among a number of Stick players in using some kind of crossover so that only those high "bass" strings are processed while the low bass strings are not. A number of bass amps and preamps offer built in crossovers that may serve this purpose for Stick players. > Seems like tubes would be better for the higher strings on the stick, since > a little bit of tube distortion would probably give a good sustain for > them. An idea I've had for some time, but still lack the funds to try, is to get a little tube amp (a Fender Pro Jr., Mesa Boogie Subway Blues, etc.) and either mic it or run it through a Red Box into a mixer, in parallel with a bass preamp and a clean guitar preamp. That way, one would have the sound of power tube overdrive available for patching into any part of a signal chain. Just a thought. Paolo Valladolid ----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From: pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu (Paolo Valladolid) Subject: Re: Looping Setup To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:20:02 -0700 (PDT) > Thunder is basically a control surface, with various areas that respond to > the position, velocity, and pressure of the musician's fingers by sending > out appropriate midi data. I've seen people using it for electronic and > ambient music, and it was quite cool. I had the good fortune of attending a conference featuring Dr. Emil Tobenfield(sp?), probably better known as Dr. T of Dr. T's music software. He is a big fan of the Thunder - it's a central component of his personal setup. > Lightning is a pair of wands that transmit midi data based on their > position and velocity in a space. The communicate with the main unit > through infrared beams and sensors. Its sort of like playing percussion, > but with invisible drums. You can program the space anyway you like, so you > mighe have vibraphone in front of you, violin synth pads to your right, > effects controllers up in the front, loop triggers to the left.... I've seen the Lighting in use at UCSD music department performances; never fails to get a laugh from the audience. I happen to study Filipino fencing myself - now you've got me interested in seeing how my strikes and counters would sound as translated into music! When David Jaffe was guest-teaching down here, he brought over his friend who plays Max Matthews' Radio Drum; a drum that senses position, velocity, and possibly acceleration in the space over it for a pair of wired mallets. I think they only make this instrument on a per-order basis though. > I talked with David Torn about similar ideas once, about the need for loop > devices to have interesting interfaces that are musically useful and are > also interesting to watch for the audience. People get confused if they > don't see you making motions that correspond to the sounds they hear, which > is a problem for loopers. Various midi controllers out there can probably > serve this purpose in interesting ways. I challenge you all to look into > it.... It might be an interesting project to get two wand-type controllers, hand each to a fencer, Japanese kendoka, or Filipino escrimador, and have them mock fight. Paolo Valladolid ----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:15:02 -0400 From: cwb@platinum.com (Clark Battle) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Plex Pricing >I've got an idea: but no idea how to implement it: maybe we should do >a GROUP PURCHASE and get some kind of volume discount from some >nice music store somewhere? Id go in for that if we could get it for the $475 Manny's price or less. Whats Manny's number anyway? Where are they? Clark Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 14:10:38 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: jspeer@haverford.edu Subject: Re: Plex Pricing >>I've got an idea: but no idea how to implement it: maybe we should do >>a GROUP PURCHASE and get some kind of volume discount from some >>nice music store somewhere? > >Id go in for that if we could get it for the $475 Manny's >price or less. Whats Manny's number anyway? Where are they? > >Clark Manny's is in Manhatten. For god's sake, don't visit in person -- It's incredibly tiny and cramped. Their catalog is great and their phone service and assistance are well above average. I've spent thousands there over the years. Their number is: 1 (800) 448-8478. I'd go in with a group buy as well, but can't commit before more details. Who'd be organizing this? Jim Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:41:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: effects box digital IO >>They could supply the effects in/out as digital s/pdif, which wouldn't >>add much to the base cost. You could go right through an effects unit >>with digital in/out, and they could sell an add-on A/D D/A box for >>people with analogue effects that want to use this technique. > >sp/dif means two extra ic's, neither of which are very cheap, two extra >connectors and rear panel space, extra board area, clock oscillator, and >various passive components. On a low volume product, (anything in the music >industry is low volume) this can mean adding anywhere from $40 to $80 to >the list price of the product. Most effects boxes don't use digital audio, >those that do are mostly high-end and use aes/ebu (sp/dif is a consumer >format), which is more expensive. Big hit for something that 99% of the >current market will never use. See how hard this stuff is? Its a wonder >anything gets made.... Having done CPU design in a previous life (it's in the Sony Playstation), I think I know what this takes. If you're doing your own processing ASIC as I understand Digitech does, for example, adding s/pdif would add a very minimal amount of chip area, and only two pins. Testing for this kind of serial protocol would also not be too difficult. But OK, if you're not building a custom ASIC, it might be harder. However, there are other solutions. You can bring out a proprietary ribbon-connector cable on the back panel, and sell a s/dif aes/ebu convertor seperately. This feature would add minimal cost, and would allow you another point with which to hype the product. If a company made a series of effects boxes with this sort of proprietary-but-convertible digital interface, they'd have a lot to tout, and would tend to "lock" people in to their product lines due to better performance. Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:49:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: eno audio clip Kim Flint writes: >Ray and I said: >>>This would be nifty for the web page. Does anyone know how to put RealAudio >>>stuff on a web site? Better yet, does anyone want to figure it out, do >>>whatever it takes to put the eno file in RealAudio format, and send it to >>>me for uploading? >> >>I can digitize it and send it was, say, an AIFF or SDII file. > >Ok, send it as aiff. Tell me how big it is first...probably best to ftp it >if its big. Can you somehow set yourself up as an ftp server? No, I can't. Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 15:23:04 -0400 From: cwb@platinum.com (Clark Battle) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Plex Pricing Bad news. I just called Manny's and they dont have any more echoplexes nor aer they getting any more :( Clark Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:39:06 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Performance Theory, Pt. 1 Kim sez: > People get confused if they > don't see you making motions that correspond to the sounds they hear, which > is a problem for loopers. This reminds me of a loop piece I did several months ago, at a Guitar Department concert here at Cal Arts, which requires different phrases to be entered into the Echoplex and then allowed to loop for a few times before the next phrase is played. I walked on stage, plugged in, and played the first phrase, then began the loop and stopped playing. After a second or two, I suddenly heard a pair of people in the front row saying (at full conversational volume): "Oh, look at that! A guitar that plays itself!" They then began laughing (again, making no apparent effort to conceal this reaction.) I suddenly looked over and stared right at them. When they suddenly noticed I was glaring at them, one of them uttered, "Oh.....!" and were immediately quiet. Then the whole house broke out laughing, myself included. Any other odd performance stories out there? --Andre Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:41:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Walls of the Vortex >At the current Guitar Center rate of $150, it's an absolute steal -- I agree. In fact, at this price, I'm thinking of buying a second one to see what trouble I can *really* get myself into. . . Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 15:53:32 -0400 From: cwb@platinum.com (Clark Battle) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Plex Pricing I just got off the phone with Nadine's and the $500 price is confirmed. They dont have any in stock though. I talked to Adrian and he said that a group/volume discount is possible but we'd have to find out exactly how many are interested first. I have no idea how much of a discount we can expect though. Any guesses? Who wants in? Clark Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:50:33 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: The grass roots approach Hey y'all -- There was some talk a while ago regarding getting personal bleebs about "normal" joes like (most of) us up on the web page. I remember seeing a list of Stick players on the Stickwire page, and was impressed with the way it was laid out and offered information. So my suggestion is that some sort of (gulp) standardized approach be made up, whereby loopists (i.e. ourselves) can have their musical, professional, personal info. on file at the web site. One idea might be to decide upon a certain format of info, including: Name, address, area(s) of musical specialization (euphemism for the dreaded "style" label), influences, personal statement, available recordings, gear/rig details, contact info, etc. Any of these could be considered optional. It might then be possible to arrange and cross-reference them in a variety of ways, including alphabetically, by geographical location, by musical area, etc. Let's hear what other people have to say about how this should be approached. I'm keen on trying to find out exactly who and how many we are. --Andre From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:04:44 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Plex Pricing group purchasing resulting in mover and shaker award sounds interesting I'm going over to visit manny'ssoon what's the word on waiting for the new software before plex purchase? Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 19:16:14 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Plex Pricing On Wed, 25 Sep 1996, Louis Collier Hyams wrote: > what's the word on waiting for the new software before plex purchase? My word would be that you're in for a long wait. The "official" word, of course, is that release of the See You EW! (CU-EU) is right around the corner, barring some "technical complications." But given some of the problems I've heard people have had with Oberheim, I wouldn't be surprised if the See You EW! never sees the light of day. I hope this is more a nihilistic worst-case scenario than an accurate prognostication, but to me there are many reasons to assume that the current non-upgrade version of the Plex is the only one we'll know, glitches and all. Keep your fingers crossed to the contrary, though... --Andre Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 20:38:33 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Plex Pricing At 07:16 PM 9/25/96 -0700, you wrote: >On Wed, 25 Sep 1996, Louis Collier Hyams wrote: > >> what's the word on waiting for the new software before plex purchase? > >My word would be that you're in for a long wait. The "official" word, of >course, is that release of the See You EW! (CU-EU) is right around the >corner, barring some "technical complications." But given some of the >problems I've heard people have had with Oberheim, I wouldn't be >surprised if the See You EW! never sees the light of day. > >I hope this is more a nihilistic worst-case scenario than an accurate >prognostication, but to me there are many reasons to assume that the >current non-upgrade version of the Plex is the only one we'll know, >glitches and all. > >Keep your fingers crossed to the contrary, though... > >--Andre > god, I hope not! Matthias and I are going to try to resolve these problems over the next few months. We'll see how it goes. I remain optimistic that somehow or another, there will be an upgrade. When that happens it will be called "The Upgrade Previously Known As the Legendary Currently Unavailable Echoplex Upgrade." (TUPKAL CU-EU?) kim ___________________________________ Kim Flint OEM Engineering Chromatic Research 408-752-9284 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 23:54:08 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Plex Pricing TUPKAL it is! hear here! 4 TUPKAL! Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 22:42:03 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Plex Pricing > I remain optimistic that > somehow or another, there will be an upgrade. When that happens it will be > called "The Upgrade Previously Known As the Legendary Currently Unavailable > Echoplex Upgrade." (TUPKAL CU-EU?) Maybe we should get an unpronouncable squiggly symbol to represent it once it's finally available...? --Andre Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 02:25:31 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: The grass roots approach >Hey y'all -- > >There was some talk a while ago regarding getting personal bleebs about >"normal" joes like (most of) us up on the web page. I remember seeing a >list of Stick players on the Stickwire page, and was impressed with the >way it was laid out and offered information. > >So my suggestion is that some sort of (gulp) standardized approach be >made up, whereby loopists (i.e. ourselves) can have their musical, >professional, personal info. on file at the web site. > >One idea might be to decide upon a certain format of info, including: >Name, address, area(s) of musical specialization (euphemism for the >dreaded "style" label), influences, personal statement, available >recordings, gear/rig details, contact info, etc. Any of these could be >considered optional. I'm really into this idea. I have no time to organize it at the moment, so if y'all want to just go ahead that would be most excellent! We can put audio clips, pictures, gear diagrams, and whatever else you like. The loop web page has 20MB of space to grow into, and I'm sure its << 1MB now. Although, If you think you want to share very large amounts of data about yourself with the loop enthusiasts of the world, it would be better to set up your own site and we can link to it from your little blurb section on Looper's Delight. But within reason, I think we can make this really fun and interesting. And since Andre brought it up, doesn't that mean he's in charge of the project? >Let's hear what other people have to say about how this should be >approached. I'm keen on trying to find out exactly who and how many >we are. > >--Andre kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 10:23:00 -0400 From: cwb@platinum.com (Clark Battle) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Plex Pricing Will the TUPKAL CU-EU be a free upgrade or paid? Clark Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 10:16:44 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: The grass roots approach > And since Andre brought it up, doesn't that mean he's in charge of the project? Yeah, I guess maybe it does... ;-/ What say that people can send me e-mail copies of whatever profiles they want to have run, and I can compile them into a single document for Kim? This will likely take some time both for everyone else and for me, so let's hear exactly how we want to approach it format-wsie before we go off... --Andre Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 10:18:16 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Plex Pricing On Thu, 26 Sep 1996, Clark Battle wrote: > > Will the TUPKAL CU-EU be a free upgrade or paid? >From what I've heard, the TUPKAL CU-EU will almost certainly be paid, as it contains new features not found in the original Echoplex (in addition to the corect features that were *supposed* to be in the original Echoplex). --Andre Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 13:48:31 -0400 From: cwb@platinum.com (Clark Battle) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Plex Pricing >From: The Man Himself > >From what I've heard, the TUPKAL CU-EU will almost certainly be paid, as > it contains new features not found in the original Echoplex (in addition > to the corect features that were *supposed* to be in the original > Echoplex). > So what are these new features? Does anyone know or is it top secret? Clark From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:00:30 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Plex Pricing if it is apaid TUPKAL then I'll have to wait, and blow my wad in a lump }8-> collier From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 13:58:11 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: The grass roots approach andre' what do the calartians have for machines now? web space and such? would it be possible to use some of that? rippy(rpi) has relatively cheap per meg rates, but my program is super intensive and may not have enough hours per carpeyed diem. ps: what program are you in? music I take it... I got accepted into the experimental motion graphics there. ended up choosing iEAR program for the teachers and the ability to integrate here is very unique. departments seemed very clicky and politic al when I was there. also, did they fix the hydraulic stage after the earthquake? collier Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 16:23:39 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Looping Setup >>The other is the 24-bit processer (TSR-24S) which has great sounding reverbs, >>choruses, phase shifters, pitch shifters, you name it....but the trick >>here is the use of >>the continuous MIDI controller pedal. With one simple pedal I can take a >>loop and >>gradually bring it from a "dry" state into a huge cavern. Or vary the >>speed of left to >>right pan from very slow to incredibly fast. The CC can be assigned to >>any effect >>parameter....mix, reverb level, chorus speed, anything you want. > >I'm not familiar (yet) with MIDI controllable eeffects, but I assume >that each controllable parameter is a different "channel" or >something, so that if you had enough controllers to mangle, you could >hack them all at oncee. I also work a lot with the control of the size of the artificial room (=reverb time) while playing. I think the listener ends up really living in this room, and you can suggest to him that he has loads of space to stay in peace or you can give him claustrophobia in a cabinet and he will suffer in there. The change between these two extremes brings the contraction relaxation movement that helps us to really solve problems and relax. I have a Mitigator PCB that accepts 4 input voltages, coming from faders I operate by foot. One is constantely on the reverb time of the PCM90, another two for the characteristics of the effect on the PCM80 (depends on the program, usually one Mix, the other Pitch or modulation rate) and the forth for the FeedBack of the Plex. Matthias Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 16:24:07 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Performance Theory, Pt. 1 > >Any other odd performance stories out there? > I made people laugh once when I played open air and suddenly had a heat attack under the lamps and during the song put away the guitar to take my sweater off. But some people dislike such thing... Matthias Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 13:44:28 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: Technohoploops? Kim, Yes, please send me your Max patches. I perhaps I can use parts of them. I just got back my echolplexes from Oberheim (probably w/o the upgrade, though -- they didn't specify whether or not they put the upgrade in.) I will send you any Max patches I come up with. Thanks! - Chris >I used Max for testing all the midi functions during the echoplex >developmet. The patch is a bit messy, but it is capable of executing all of >the midi stuff. You could easily lift pieces of it out to make sub-patches >for what you are talking about here. Want it? I'd be interested in any Max >patches you do. > _____________________________________________________ Chris Chovit avec@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov AVIRIS Experiment Coordinator ph: (818) 354-8077 JPL M/S 306-336 FAX: (818) 393-4406 4800 Oak Grove Dr. pager #: (800) 759-8255 PIN 834-3869 Pasadena, CA 91109 _____________________________________________________ Date: 26 Sep 96 17:09:56 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: the ... update hi Kim, just to make sure: when the update comes, will it simply be a chip that I can put into a regular Echoplex (I assume this will be the case) or would one have to buy the complete new model because there are other changes which aren't limited to the software? In other words, is it worth trying to find an Echoplex now (with the option to update it later) or should one rather wait for the updated model? -Michael Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:54:50 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: The Grass Roots Approach On Thu, 26 Sep 1996, Louis Collier Hyams wrote: > andre' > > what do the calartians have for machines now? web space and such? would it be > possible to use some of that? rippy(rpi) has relatively cheap per meg rates, > but my program is super intensive and may not have enough hours per carpeyed > diem. I'm not sure exactly what each student in the music department (or the general intitute) is allotted, but I'd be wary of using Cal Arts computers for a couple of reasons: 1) I'm basically HTML illiterate (I guess that makes me a pretty big geek on the list... or perhaps not enough of one? :-/ ) and 2) I can't really apply the time in would take to be able to Web everyone's profiles. Also, since this is my last year at Cal Arts, the data would eventually have to be transferred to a new localle anyway. I'll send a message right after this one detailing how I would like to proceed. > ps: what program are you in? music I take it... I got accepted into the > experimental motion graphics there. ended up choosing iEAR program for the > teachers and the ability to integrate here is very unique. departments seemed > very clicky and politic al when I was there. also, did they fix the hydraulic > stage after the earthquake? I'm in the Multi-Focus Guitar program. As far as cliquish behavior and politics, Cal Arts doesn't strike me as being any worse than your typical school with a limited budget, and a lot more open-minded than most. For me, this is probably the only place in the world I could go to and study what I want to study in an academic setting. And yes, the Modular Theater (with the hydraulic platforms) was repaired following the 1994 Northridge quake, as was most of the rest of the institute building. More to come, --Andre Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 15:12:55 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: PERSONAL PROFILES: Here's my plan OK, folks, this is how I'd like to proceed. I realize that not everyone has had time to pipe in with objections, but for now I'll submit my proposal and then see what objections there are. My idea is to set up a database of loopists at Kim's site, to get an idea of who is out there, where they are, what they're doing, etc. This could be cross-referenced by style, by name, and by geography. I *don't* intend for this to function as a comprehensive profile service, both in the interests of keeping the database relatively orderly and also in the interest of my ongoing mental health. Rather, this should be thought of as a sort of index of loopists, which can give an overview of the different people in the field and provide links towards more in-depth info about each of them. So my proposal is for the following information to be listed: NAME AGE ADDRESS PHONE E-MAIL URL PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR (or methodology for non-electronic loopists) INFLUENCES MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION ENSEMBLES AVAILABLE RECORDINGS CONTACT INFORMATION (if different from above) PERSONAL STATEMENT (something reasonably informative yet concise would be cool -- probably two to three paragraphs maximum). Anyone who's familiar with the Stick web site can see that I've basically followed their example. My idea is for anyone who's interested to copy the above info and forward it to me with their pertinent data. I can compile the results and forward them to Kim for upload to the annihilist.com site. Since I'm no HTML-er, and since it would be nice to keep the database relatively orderly, I'm proposing that detailed technical schematics, visuals, etc. be kept to a minimum (and if necessary, sent to Kim so that someone who actually knows what he's doing can deal with them). Obviously, links would be provided for those with a URL. Any of the above information in the form should be considered optional. If anyone has suggestions for additions or improvements, then let me know. But to set a timetable, let's say that unless any other changes are suggested, then the above format will take effect starting this upcoming Monday (the 30th). Starting then, people can e-mail me their profiles. I'll wait an additional week (until the following Monday, October 6th, at least, possibly later depending upon my class schedule), at which time I'll send them to Kim. Obviously the 6th isn't a final deadline for inclusion, but it'll be easier to ensure that your profile gets up on the web with the initial batch. So let me know what you think of this; barring any objections, you can start sending your stats to me on the 30th. Loop on, --Andre Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 18:56:31 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: studio seventeen productions Subject: Re: Looping Setup/Matthias Comments FIRST DAVE AT SEVENTEEN (ME) SAID: >>>The other is the 24-bit processer (TSR-24S) which has great sounding reverbs, >>>choruses, phase shifters, pitch shifters, you name it....but the trick >>>here is the use of >>>the continuous MIDI controller pedal. With one simple pedal I can take a >>>loop and >>>gradually bring it from a "dry" state into a huge cavern. Or vary the >>>speed of left to >>>right pan from very slow to incredibly fast. The CC can be assigned to >>>any effect >>>parameter....mix, reverb level, chorus speed, anything you want. THEN SOMEONE ELSE SAID: >> >>I'm not familiar (yet) with MIDI controllable eeffects, but I assume >>that each controllable parameter is a different "channel" or >>something, so that if you had enough controllers to mangle, you could >>hack them all at oncee. > THEN MATTHIAS SAID: >I also work a lot with the control of the size of the artificial room >(=reverb time) while playing. I think the listener ends up really living in >this room, and you can suggest to him that he has loads of space to stay in >peace or you can give him claustrophobia in a cabinet and he will suffer in >there. The change between these two extremes brings the contraction >relaxation movement that helps us to really solve problems and relax. ABSOLUTELY. I LOVE SUDDEN AND EXTREME CHANGES TO THE "ROOM" YOU ARE IN. SHOCK VALUE< BUT MUSICAL... >I have a Mitigator PCB that accepts 4 input voltages, coming from faders I >operate by foot. One is constantely on the reverb time of the PCM90, >another two for the characteristics of the effect on the PCM80 (depends on >the program, usually one Mix, the other Pitch or modulation rate) and the >forth for the FeedBack of the Plex. I'VE JUST (FOR THE 100th time) REBUILT MY PEDALBOARD AND REROUTED EVERYTHING. DETAILS WILL FOLLOWS WHEN TIME PERMITS, BUT NOW I HAVE THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS: I CAN LOOP "EFFECTED" SOUNDS AND THEN "EFFECT" MY ENTIRE LOOP. BIG FUN HERE AT 17... >Matthias > > KEEP ON LOOPING! dave @ 17 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 * * * * * * i'll be downstairs if you need me. * * i'll still be downstairs if you DON'T need me * * (Mr. Blint, Consequences/Godley & Creme) * * * * visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html seventeen: the ambient music page 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:28:43 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Pricing...and Sylvian fiest, i've been finding a way to get a vortex in the U.S via guitar center, so I tahnk again everyone who helped.... I use the opportunity to ask the guy wether they would allow us a good price when when making a big massive order like the idea raised its head, not so long ago.... For the 'Plex, i'll have to wait for futher info, but for the jamman they offer a price of 300 bucks for 20 units ordered in miami (where i bought...). The other thing is "is there a miling list dedicated to D. Sylvian"? Anyone know? Olivier Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 09:49:56 -0400 From: Jonathan Brainin To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Pricing...and Sylvian Olivier Malhomme wrote: > > fiest, i've been finding a way to get a vortex in the U.S via guitar > center, so I tahnk again everyone who helped.... > I use the opportunity to ask the guy wether they would allow us a good > price when when making a big massive order like the idea raised its head, > not so long ago.... > For the 'Plex, i'll have to wait for futher info, but for the jamman they > offer a price of 300 bucks for 20 units ordered in miami (where i > bought...). > > The other thing is "is there a miling list dedicated to D. Sylvian"? > Anyone know? > > Olivier Olivier, check out the following link for all your Sylvian needs: http://www.io.tudelft.nl/~keesjan/music/sylvian/information/index.html I think it will answer all your questions. Jonathan Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 09:51:21 -0400 From: cwb@platinum.com (Clark Battle) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Looping Setup/Matthias Comments >I'VE JUST (FOR THE 100th time) REBUILT MY PEDALBOARD AND REROUTED >EVERYTHING. DETAILS WILL FOLLOWS WHEN TIME PERMITS, BUT NOW I HAVE THE BEST >OF BOTH WORLDS: I CAN LOOP "EFFECTED" SOUNDS AND THEN "EFFECT" MY ENTIRE >LOOP. BIG FUN HERE AT 17... I was just wondering if this could be done with the echoplex and a TSR24s. Since the TSR24s has 2 processors, 2 inputs and 4 outs it should be possible to use one processor as a pre-loop effector, output it in mono to the echoplex, then return the looped signal back to the second processor of the TSR24s for stereo post-loop processing. Saving my bux, Clark Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 10:22:04 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: the ... update >hi Kim, > >just to make sure: when the update comes, will it simply be a chip that I >can put into a regular Echoplex (I assume this will be the case) or would >one have to buy the complete new model because there are other changes which >aren't limited to the software? In other words, is it worth trying to find >an Echoplex now (with the option to update it later) or should one rather >wait for the updated model? > >-Michael It would be 2 chips (eproms) that you swap for the ones in there. Its just software, uses the existing hardware. There are a couple of new parameters, so you might want to put a sticker over a couple words on the front and pencil in the new ones. I'd say, if you are interested in getting the echoplex, go ahead and buy one now. The differences with the upgrade are more with intermediate and advanced features, the main functions (record, overdub, multiply, etc.) won't be different. So you can still get a lot out of the existing software! The new soft will just add some more... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 10:22:07 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: PERSONAL PROFILES: Here's my plan >My idea is to set up a database of loopists at Kim's site, to get an idea >of who is out there, where they are, what they're doing, etc. This could >be cross-referenced by style, by name, and by geography. I *don't* intend >for this to function as a comprehensive profile service, both in the >interests of keeping the database relatively orderly and also in the >interest of my ongoing mental health. Rather, this should be thought of >as a sort of index of loopists, which can give an overview of the >different people in the field and provide links towards more in-depth >info about each of them. great ideas Andre! Thanks tons for taking this on..... >Since I'm no HTML-er, and since it would be nice to keep the database >relatively orderly, I'm proposing that detailed technical schematics, >visuals, etc. be kept to a minimum (and if necessary, sent to Kim so that >someone who actually knows what he's doing can deal with them). Obviously, >links would be provided for those with a URL. I can HTML-ize it, or I can get someone else to help out if I don't have the time then. (the way things have picked up in the past couple months, that seems likely!) We could even make a sort of html template that you could just paste stuff in as you get it. I'm thrilled that people are volunteering to help get this going! And really, more people means a wider breadth of ideas, more creative input, a higher level of enthusiasm, etc. etc..... >Obviously the 6th isn't a final deadline for inclusion, but it'll be >easier to ensure that your profile gets up on the web with the initial >batch. > >So let me know what you think of this; barring any objections, you can >start sending your stats to me on the 30th. sounds great to me, lets start getting our personal blurbs off Andre and get things moving! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 18:08:55 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Plex Pricing >On Wed, 25 Sep 1996, Louis Collier Hyams wrote: > >> what's the word on waiting for the new software before plex purchase? > >My word would be that you're in for a long wait. The "official" word, of >course, is that release of the See You EW! (CU-EU) is right around the >corner, barring some "technical complications." But given some of the >problems I've heard people have had with Oberheim, I wouldn't be >surprised if the See You EW! never sees the light of day. I Oberheim gives up, we might make our version in Europa >I hope this is more a nihilistic worst-case scenario than an accurate >prognostication, but to me there are many reasons to assume that the >current non-upgrade version of the Plex is the only one we'll know, >glitches and all. If Oberheim gives up, we sell the upgrade directy, one way or the other, you WILL see it. Fingers crossed Matthias Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 18:09:17 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: The grass roots approach >andre' > >what do the calartians have for machines now? web space and such? would it be >possible to use some of that? rippy(rpi) has relatively cheap per meg rates, >but my program is super intensive and may not have enough hours per carpeyed >diem. > >ps: what program are you in? music I take it... I got accepted into the >experimental motion graphics there. ended up choosing iEAR program for the >teachers and the ability to integrate here is very unique. departments seemed >very clicky and politic al when I was there. also, did they fix the hydraulic >stage after the earthquake? > >collier What are you talking about, please? Sorry Matthias Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 18:09:13 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Plex Pricing >if it is apaid TUPKAL then I'll have to wait, and blow my wad in a lump }8-> >collier Usually the slang expressions make text more fun, and a bit more difficult for me to read, but sometimes it reaches the point where I have no chance to understand what you mean, because no dictionary and no neighbour will help me! Sorry Matthias Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 18:14:30 -0400 From: KRosser414@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Hello... Hi - I'm brand new here and thought I would start off by asking two questions: 1) Is there an archive of old messages? 2) I am a new owner of a Lexicon LXP-5, which I hear has some sort of looping capabilities. I'm still fishing my way through the owner's manual. Any tips on using this device for looping, and is there a way to play over a loop thus created? (Obviously the Jam Man is more specifically suited, I know...) Looking forward to being here! Ken R Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 17:04:24 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: studio seventeen productions Subject: Re: Looping Setup/Matthias Comments At 09:51 AM 9/27/96 -0400, you wrote: > >>I'VE JUST (FOR THE 100th time) REBUILT MY PEDALBOARD AND REROUTED >>EVERYTHING. DETAILS WILL FOLLOWS WHEN TIME PERMITS, BUT NOW I HAVE THE BEST >>OF BOTH WORLDS: I CAN LOOP "EFFECTED" SOUNDS AND THEN "EFFECT" MY ENTIRE >>LOOP. BIG FUN HERE AT 17... > >I was just wondering if this could be done with the echoplex and >a TSR24s. Since the TSR24s has 2 processors, 2 inputs and 4 outs >it should be possible to use one processor as a pre-loop effector, >output it in mono to the echoplex, then return the looped signal >back to the second processor of the TSR24s for stereo post-loop >processing. > >Saving my bux, >Clark > > CLARK- It CAN be done, but I've opted not to. Reason being, you LOSE stereo completely. All those beautiful rooms disappear. The voices sound good in mono, but you lose that "space". Also, the task of programming each of hundreds of voices to be split would be mammoth. Doable, but no fun. I noticed that DIGITECH is making some kind of QUAD IN QUAD OUT devices....don't know anything about 'em, but maybe that's your answer. My setup pleases me, because GOING IN I have distortions, harmonizers, choruses, flangers, etc. and GOING OUT I have reverbs, reverse reverbs, and all the super quality effects of the TSR-24S........ have fun! dave at studio seventeen 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 * * * * * * i'll be downstairs if you need me. * * i'll still be downstairs if you DON'T need me * * (Mr. Blint, Consequences/Godley & Creme) * * * * visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html seventeen: the ambient music page 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 17:29:57 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: studio seventeen productions Subject: Re: simple loop idea >I've tried this before. If you're looking for clean transposition, >forget the Whammy pedal, since it imbues any signal containing more than >one basic note with a gurgling warblish sound. The first five minutes of >owning it, I freaked out over this ideosyncrasy, but have since come to >enjoy it for its own demented purposes. This "idiosyncrasy" is definitely annoying...BUT, it is a very interesting tool...especially if you do odd things like set the WHAMMY II to two octaves up and then run it thru your TSR-24S set to ONE OCTAVE DOWN...and then vary the pitch of either or both. VERY strange possibilities there. If the funny noise problem would go away, this would be the perfect pitch pedal. It's far more intuitive to use than any rack mount harmonizer, but it has a great range of features. (Programming the Programmable Whammy in the TSR-24S is quite involved...no glitches, but unless I want to spend 30 hours emulating all the stuff the "II"...you get the idea. dave at studio seventeen 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 * * * * * * i'll be downstairs if you need me. * * i'll still be downstairs if you DON'T need me * * (Mr. Blint, Consequences/Godley & Creme) * * * * visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html seventeen: the ambient music page 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 19:26:48 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: studio seventeen productions Subject: DIGEST please KIM- any progress on the DIGEST???????? thanks! dave @ 17 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 * * * * * * i'll be downstairs if you need me. * * i'll still be downstairs if you DON'T need me * * (Mr. Blint, Consequences/Godley & Creme) * * * * visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html seventeen: the ambient music page 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 23:30:02 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: DIGEST please At 07:26 PM 9/27/96 -0700, you wrote: >KIM- > >any progress on the DIGEST???????? > uh, sorry..... Unfortunately I don't have sysadmin powers at my ISP, so for some things I can only ask them to do it and hope they're not too busy. Setting up the digest version is a bit involved, and when I asked them they were overloaded with other problems. So my prediction that it would be ready last week was a bit off! sorry about that. They have been gracious enough (or foolish enough) to trust my unix abilities and let me muck around with the list parameters however I like. This has generally worked out well, and I've been able to fix problems that have come up pretty quickly. The digest takes more, unfortunately. I've generally found that I get the best results by gently harassing them on a daily basis, which is how I got the list going in the first place. So it is partly my fault because I haven't been doing enough harassing in the past week. I'll try to get on that. If you note the time on this mail, it is currently 11:20pm, on friday, and I'm still at work, which has something to do with it.... (This is generally a good technique to keep in mind when dealing with excessively busy people. The trick is to be just irritating enough so that they don't forget and want to do your thing so that you will go away, without making them angry. You want to be nice and polite about it, because if you make them angry they will actually make an effort to not do what you want, and then you can just forget it. Keep this in mind when dealing with fast growing internet providers, certain musical instrument manufacturers, or your favorite list maintainer....;-) ) kim ___________________________________ Kim Flint OEM Engineering Chromatic Research 408-752-9284 Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 10:38:35 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Plex Pricing >if it is apaid TUPKAL then I'll have to wait, and blow my wad in a lump }8-> >collier Definitely, i'm lost too as far as meaning is concerned (no pun....) My english an american slang dictionnary won't help me. I'm sure i'm missing something terribly important here... Olivier Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 10:48:19 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: superimposing pitchshifter.. I've tried also once the whammy. With a distorted sound, you gain on the sound and loose those blurble (in part) when routing the whammy before the distortion. Of course a lot of function of the thing are lost if distortion come after (lika having two voices making intervals) An other thing. once I ried something that i now will call "organ synthesis". Duh? By using two diferent pitchshifter, on set an octave above, with regeneration, and the other one octave lower than your signa, and with a bit of regeneration too. You route them in way that they are serial (is it english?) well, anyway, one goes into another. play then guitarn Stick, whatever you want, and you get an hammond sound (wel, do not exagerate too much olivier, will you?) Ok, an organ sound. Your shifter(s) are like drawbars and the basic tone voice of the thing is your instrument. Nice effect, powerfull sound, and a bit strange like something you know, but it is not exactly what it used to be.... Olivier Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 02:12:51 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Hello... Ken R said: >Hi - > >I'm brand new here and thought I would start off by asking two questions: > >1) Is there an archive of old messages? I am planning to do this, but haven't quite managed yet. There will be a section on the Looper's Delight web site with batches of past postings. You haven't missed a whole lot, really. Although we have been quite prolific, the list has only been alive for three weeks now. I'll let you know when post archives go up. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 03:19:57 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Technohoploops? It should be attached.... >Kim, > >Yes, please send me your Max patches. I perhaps I can use parts of them. >I just got back my echolplexes from Oberheim (probably w/o the upgrade, >though -- they didn't specify whether or not they put the upgrade in.) I >will send you any Max patches I come up with. Thanks! > >- Chris > > >>I used Max for testing all the midi functions during the echoplex >>developmet. The patch is a bit messy, but it is capable of executing all of >>the midi stuff. You could easily lift pieces of it out to make sub-patches >>for what you are talking about here. Want it? I'd be interested in any Max >>patches you do. >> > > >_____________________________________________________ >Chris Chovit avec@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov >AVIRIS Experiment Coordinator ph: (818) 354-8077 >JPL M/S 306-336 FAX: (818) 393-4406 >4800 Oak Grove Dr. pager #: (800) 759-8255 PIN 834-3869 >Pasadena, CA 91109 >_____________________________________________________ Attachment converted: Macintosh HD:looper test (maxb/max2) (0000C5C4) ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 20:25:46 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Hello... >Ken R said: >>Hi - >> >>I'm brand new here and thought I would start off by asking two questions: >> >>1) Is there an archive of old messages? > >I am planning to do this, but haven't quite managed yet. There will be a >section on the Looper's Delight web site with batches of past postings. You >haven't missed a whole lot, really. Although we have been quite prolific, >the list has only been alive for three weeks now. I'll let you know when >post archives go up. > OH NO, I think you missed a lot, Ken. There have been very nice hints and storys. I was thinking of maybe do the work to collect those. An archive of all mails might be about useless after some time, because the subject usually does not point directly to the content (look at this very message!) and even less to quality. To judge quality is not a nice job to do. Throwing someones writing away, saying that it is not interesting for the later to come is somehow always wrong, but somehow necessary to keep the concentration for the stuff that really needs to live on. Maybe somebody could help me by doing the same in parallel and compare? Or we could share the work amongst the principal contributors. So Dave would compile the "amplification" directions, and Todd the "Vortex" hints and me the "loop magic" storys. Should I just start and present a file? Ideas, thoughts?